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[Review] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: The Original Release Reviewed

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Comments

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558

    Originally posted by Delsus1

    People wouldnt have minded if they released a review after 1.18, 4 days before the biggest patch (note I have never said miricle patch) is completly illogical unless they want the game to fail, and the only reason this site would is because SE gave them no money. I have not seen any logical arguments to wait till 4 days before a patch, this website is getting bad press on the official foums and fansites because of this out of date review, completly biased review

    People such as Cynthe have been reasonable about it, just as many people on that thread. You and Abriael however have repeatedly condescended the reviewer over and over on this thread. Perhaps the most logical thing to do was - after expressing your concerns on this thread which you're obviously allowed to do - inquired with the writer through PMs for their reasoning? 

     

    EDIT: grammar, spelling mistakes, yadda yadda

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by ZizouX

    Originally posted by Benthon


     

    Value: in the grand scheme of things, the value of this patch won't increase the value of the game by more than an tiny margin.

    How the heck do you know?

     Because Value is more like a "conclusion" score. And 1.18, while changing many things, leaves many of those tedious shortfalls still glaring at you in the screen.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Member UncommonPosts: 648

    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3

    Originally posted by Delsus1



    People wouldnt have minded if they released a review after 1.18, 4 days before the biggest patch (note I have never said miricle patch) is completly illogical unless they want the game to fail, and the only reason this site would is because SE gave them no money. I have not seen any logical arguments to wait till 4 days before a patch, this website is getting bad press on the official foums and fansites because of this out of date review, completly biased review

    People such as Cynthe have been reasonable about it, just as many people on that thread. You and Abriael however have done but repeatedly condescended the reviewer over and over on this thread. Perhaps the most logical thing to do was - after expressing your concerns on this thread which you're obviously allowed to do - inquired with the writer through PMs for that their reasoning? 

    If you notice he made the account to do said flaming, 10 post all in this thread trashing the reviewer.  Odd considering that most that play the game agree w/ the review and concede that this isn't going to be some miracle patch.  Just put the guy on ignore I imagine he'll get himself banned before long. 

    Contrary to what some believe most of us would love the game to get better and be that enjoyable expeience that ffxi was for some.  When that day comes(if ever) I'm sure a rereview will be done and will show the improvement.

  • lthompson94lthompson94 Member Posts: 194

    Originally posted by Benthon

     

     Social includes the tools in the system, not the population exclusively. Guilds and chatting are almost nonexistant and not because the population is just low. - You have no idea who is chatting about what, since you obviously don't play.  A broadening of the population, diversity, activity, and ease of grouping will obviously lift or hurt the score.

    The "new" combat system and quest system is innovative in FFXIV itself, but not other games, sorry. - You haven't read any of the details of any of the systems and are passing an uninformed judgement.

    Gameplay is untouched in account creation, tutorial, and storyline. Sure, combat is being overhauled. That's one part, you nailed it. - That "one" part could easily gain or lose the score a number or two.  It's obvious you don't really know what's happening in the patch, not sure why you continue to argue.

    Value: in the grand scheme of things, the value of this patch won't increase the value of the game by more than an tiny margin. - How do you know?  And you're saying more content, more polish, more options, a potentially bigger community, and a better system of progression don't effect value?  Um.. ok...

    Anyway, obvious devil's advocate at this point.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by lthompson94

    Originally posted by Benthon


    Originally posted by lthompson94

    They didn't review it in a timely manner because "it wasn't ready."  Seriously?  Since when do they decide when it is ready for a review?  It hits stores... it's their responsibility to review a major title.  Imagine if real journalists practiced this type of BS?  (Although I'm sure some do).

    But now that a major game overhaul is coming in four days... it IS ready?  They have divided their own logic.  They should have written an article about the upcoming changes, maybe interviewed someone from SE... you know... what a real journalist would do.

     So.. regardless of what's coming in the near future, SE has still had almost a year in THEIR benefit to make the game better than what it should've been reviewed as. Guess you wanted that 4.1 on here for another 2 years instead of a 5.1

    I don't think you read my post.

    MMORPG has a responsibility to review a game in a timely manner. If the game is crap, say it's crap and call it a day.  Almost a year in THEIR benefit?  That's not for a journalist to decide.  They should not cater to any company, nor make decisions as to what is "ready" for a review.  When it's on shelves, it's ready to be reviewed.

    A) It is not for them to decide when a game is "ready."  They should be too busy informing consumers.

    B) They defy their own logic by claiming it's "ready" before a major overhaul.

     This situation isn't unique to FFXIV. It has happened a few times before for other games. The articles are written over a course of a few weeks so the timing isn't intentional. The bottom line is FFXIV should have a lower score when it was released in September, yet it got a 5.1 because the reviewers waited for some unknown reason. Niether of us know. They had a year to do fixes, and as of a few weeks ago and today, the game is still in a 5.1 state. 1.18 won't make it a 7.5, or a 8.0. If the reviewers constantly wait for patches then their article becomes out of date anyway.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • ZizouXZizouX Member Posts: 670

    Originally posted by Benthon

    Originally posted by ZizouX


    Originally posted by Benthon


     

    Value: in the grand scheme of things, the value of this patch won't increase the value of the game by more than an tiny margin.

    How the heck do you know?

     Because Value is more like a "conclusion" score. And 1.18, while changing many things, leaves many of those tedious shortfalls still glaring at you in the screen.

    You're arguing your opinion as though it's fact.  I know plenty of people who are coming back to FFXIV to try it out after 1.18.  Therefor, the value they place on this patch is considerable.

     

    It just seems that you think the value of the game is never going to change regardless of what SE does.  Clearly that's wrong.  Maybe for you there's nothing SE can do to redeam themselves, but for many others, that is not the case. 

     

    The review should take into account a person like you and a person who is on the fence.  To say that 1.18 adds absolutely nothing to the argument is clearly shortsighted.  There ARE things being changed in the game....some are ground breaking some are not.  The review would be better served if it incorporates the new and the old.  Especially when the new is only 4 days away.

     

  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414

    Originally posted by Benthon

     Like FFXIV has much of a playerbase to grab from already. I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure many other FFXIV players are interested in atleast one of the following upcoming MMO's: TERA, SWTOR, GW2, Archeage. I'm not spelling DOOM and GLOOM from the Heavens above, only that these games will take what little playerbase FFXIV has and make it that much smaller.

    I'm actually of the mind that what we have left in the playebase really can't get any smaller and that the people who would go to another game have pretty much already left. I have people ask me all the time if the game is ready to come back to and have to regretfully tell them no, to wait until fall or winter or even later for a really solid experience. 

    Players come and go all the time, and there's no guarantee that the games you listed will attract a whole bunch of players for a long time. Tera is already dwindling in Korea and it literally just came out. TOR is STILL an enigma on many front other then they have voice overs and a crazy amount of story content. Archeage if it's FFA PVP will be a pretty Darkfall with some neat features, not a title that will attract a horde of players. 

    I just get sort of tired when people play the new MMO on the horizon card to say that a certain game has very little future or hope of attracting old and new players. I know in my own circle of friends we play new games, and we check out old ones all the time to see if we like them better now. This is a constant. 

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by lthompson94

    Originally posted by Benthon


     

     Social includes the tools in the system, not the population exclusively. Guilds and chatting are almost nonexistant and not because the population is just low. - You have no idea who is chatting about what, since you obviously don't play.  A broadening of the population, diversity, activity, and ease of grouping will obviously lift or hurt the score.

    The "new" combat system and quest system is innovative in FFXIV itself, but not other games, sorry. - You haven't read any of the details of any of the systems and are passing an uninformed judgement.

    Gameplay is untouched in account creation, tutorial, and storyline. Sure, combat is being overhauled. That's one part, you nailed it. - That "one" part could easily gain or lose the score a number or two.  It's obvious you don't really know what's happening in the patch, not sure why you continue to argue.

    Value: in the grand scheme of things, the value of this patch won't increase the value of the game by more than an tiny margin. - How do you know?  And you're saying more content, more polish, more options, a potentially bigger community, and a better system of progression don't effect value?  Um.. ok...

    Anyway, obvious devil's advocate at this point.

     I do play. I just logged in a few days ago. Maybe it's not so obvious.

    I'm really sorry to inform you, but their are hundred's of MMO's. Unique systems are almost nonexistant, just less used ones.

    One part lowers the score by 1 or two points, changing the overall score by, what, .2 or .3?

    I know because 1.18 isn't a miracle patch, there is no such thing. 1.18 won't raise the score to acceptable MMORPG levels. It won't make it a 7.0, it won't make it a 8.0.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • lthompson94lthompson94 Member Posts: 194

     This situation isn't unique to FFXIV. It has happened a few times before for other games. The articles are written over a course of a few weeks so the timing isn't intentional. The bottom line is FFXIV should have a lower score when it was released in September, yet it got a 5.1 because the reviewers waited for some unknown reason. Niether of us know. They had a year to do fixes, and as of a few weeks ago and today, the game is still in a 5.1 state. 1.18 won't make it a 7.5, or a 8.0. If the reviewers constantly wait for patches then their article becomes out of date anyway.

    Reviewers should not "constantly wait for patches."  They should be informed enough about the games they are reviewing to understand when certain patches are going to change the entire dynamic and gameplay of a certain game.  Those patches should be treated differently.  If they delayed a review because "They decided it wasn't ready," then they should have a clear understanding of their timing and the very events that they claim "aren't ready." 

    This should have been an "Upcoming changes to FFXIV" article, not an "Official Review."  They missed their window, and should have taken the hit and not published this.  "It has happened  a few other times before with other games" just makes it worse.  They should be informend enough about the MMO industry to understand when to release certain information, and when not to.

    Anyway, at this point we'll agree to disagree, this thread has sapped my energy.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by ZizouX

    Originally posted by Benthon


    Originally posted by ZizouX


    Originally posted by Benthon


     

    Value: in the grand scheme of things, the value of this patch won't increase the value of the game by more than an tiny margin.

    How the heck do you know?

     Because Value is more like a "conclusion" score. And 1.18, while changing many things, leaves many of those tedious shortfalls still glaring at you in the screen.

    You're arguing your opinion as though it's fact.  I know plenty of people who are coming back to FFXIV to try it out after 1.18.  Therefor, the value they place on this patch is considerable.

     

    It just seems that you think the value of the game is never going to change regardless of what SE does.  Clearly that's wrong.  Maybe for you there's nothing SE can do to redeam themselves, but for many others, that is not the case. 

     

    The review should take into account a person like you and a person who is on the fence.  To say that 1.18 adds absolutely nothing to the argument is clearly shortsighted.  There ARE things being changed in the game....some are ground breaking some are not.  The review would be better served if it incorporates the new and the old.  Especially when the new is only 4 days away.

     

     No I'm not at all. Value is ONE category in this review. Changing the value to a 7.0 or even a 10 only affects the final score by a tiny amount. The value of the game goes up every single patch, no arguing that.

    I never even mentioned 1.18 not adding anything to the argument. All I said was that while it changed many things, a lot of the annoying problems are still there. Yes, the combat is definitely changing for the better, you heard it from me first if it helps ya. There are just lots of things left to tackle and so the overall score won't change by much.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by lthompson94

    Reviewers should not "constantly wait for patches."  They should be informed enough about the games they are reviewing to understand when certain patches are going to change the entire dynamic and gameplay of a certain game.  Those patches should be treated differently.  If they delayed a review because "They decided it wasn't ready," then they should have a clear understanding of their timing and the very events that they claim "aren't ready." 

    This should have been an "Upcoming changes to FFXIV" article, not an "Official Review."  They missed their window, and should have taken the hit and not published this.  "It has happened  a few other times before with other games" just makes it worse.  They should be informend enough about the MMO industry to understand when to release certain information, and when not to.

    Anyway, at this point we'll agree to disagree, this thread has sapped my energy.

     I agree. We've pretty much gone full circle and come back to "What's an acceptable time table to release a review from release". Agree to disagree, chap!

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • ghostinfinitghostinfinit Member UncommonPosts: 552

    I can say this much:  If they add chocobos you can breed like they did in FFXI, an auction, a mail system, and airships they'll increase their rating dramtically.

  • Delsus1Delsus1 Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3



    Originally posted by Delsus1



    People wouldnt have minded if they released a review after 1.18, 4 days before the biggest patch (note I have never said miricle patch) is completly illogical unless they want the game to fail, and the only reason this site would is because SE gave them no money. I have not seen any logical arguments to wait till 4 days before a patch, this website is getting bad press on the official foums and fansites because of this out of date review, completly biased review

    People such as Cynthe have been reasonable about it, just as many people on that thread. You and Abriael however have done but repeatedly condescended the reviewer over and over on this thread. Perhaps the most logical thing to do was - after expressing your concerns on this thread which you're obviously allowed to do - inquired with the writer through PMs for that their reasoning? 


     

    I dont want the reviewer to tell me privately why they posted the review, I want them to say why in public, it would be the right thing to do,  they failed by releasing this review now, it should all be on their head as I say the only reason they would is for a final kick in the balls for SE before 1.18

  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414

    Originally posted by ghostinfinit

    I can say this much:  If they add chocobos you can breed like they did in FFXI, an auction, a mail system, and airships they'll increase their rating dramtically.

    XD Yes indeed. Chocobos and airships are tentatively slated for 1.19. I'm one of those pushing for a proper AH and I think everyone is dying for mailing... 

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • Delsus1Delsus1 Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by lthompson94





     This situation isn't unique to FFXIV. It has happened a few times before for other games. The articles are written over a course of a few weeks so the timing isn't intentional. The bottom line is FFXIV should have a lower score when it was released in September, yet it got a 5.1 because the reviewers waited for some unknown reason. Niether of us know. They had a year to do fixes, and as of a few weeks ago and today, the game is still in a 5.1 state. 1.18 won't make it a 7.5, or a 8.0. If the reviewers constantly wait for patches then their article becomes out of date anyway.

    Reviewers should not "constantly wait for patches."  They should be informed enough about the games they are reviewing to understand when certain patches are going to change the entire dynamic and gameplay of a certain game.  Those patches should be treated differently.  If they delayed a review because "They decided it wasn't ready," then they should have a clear understanding of their timing and the very events that they claim "aren't ready." 

    This should have been an "Upcoming changes to FFXIV" article, not an "Official Review."  They missed their window, and should have taken the hit and not published this.  "It has happened  a few other times before with other games" just makes it worse.  They should be informend enough about the MMO industry to understand when to release certain information, and when not to.

    Anyway, at this point we'll agree to disagree, this thread has sapped my energy.


     

    We have known about this patch for a week, infact it was delayed so we have known it could come anytime for over 1 month this review should not be up

  • lthompson94lthompson94 Member Posts: 194

     I do play. I just logged in a few days ago. Maybe it's not so obvious.

    No, not obvious at all since you continue to adhere to the "it's just an autoattack change" arguement.  You either don't play or have no idea what's in the patch.

    I'm really sorry to inform you, but their are hundred's of MMO's. Unique systems are almost nonexistant, just less used ones.

    Then why have an innovation score in the first place?  And how does any game score over a 0?

    One part lowers the score by 1 or two points, changing the overall score by, what, .2 or .3?

    Point is not the score necessarily.  It's the relevence of the content of the review. 

    I know because 1.18 isn't a miracle patch, there is no such thing. 1.18 won't raise the score to acceptable MMORPG levels. It won't make it a 7.0, it won't make it a 8.0.

    Again, opinion.

    Anyway, can't do this anymore.  You will obviously think what you will. 

    EDIT:  Sorry bout that, I said I was done... lol.  For real this time.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by Delsus1



    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3








    Originally posted by Delsus1









    People wouldnt have minded if they released a review after 1.18, 4 days before the biggest patch (note I have never said miricle patch) is completly illogical unless they want the game to fail, and the only reason this site would is because SE gave them no money. I have not seen any logical arguments to wait till 4 days before a patch, this website is getting bad press on the official foums and fansites because of this out of date review, completly biased review

    People such as Cynthe have been reasonable about it, just as many people on that thread. You and Abriael however have done but repeatedly condescended the reviewer over and over on this thread. Perhaps the most logical thing to do was - after expressing your concerns on this thread which you're obviously allowed to do - inquired with the writer through PMs for that their reasoning? 






     

    I dont want the reviewer to tell me privately why they posted the review, I want them to say why in public, it would be the right thing to do,  they failed by releasing this review now, it should all be on their head as I say the only reason they would is for a final kick in the balls for SE before 1.18

     And your speculation is just that - speculation.

    Also, really?

    Originally posted by Delsus

    "lol wheres my temp ban then, gotta keep trying lol "

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558

    Originally posted by Delsus1

    I dont want the reviewer to tell me privately why they posted the review, I want them to say why in public, it would be the right thing to do,  they failed by releasing this review now, it should all be on their head as I say the only reason they would is for a final kick in the balls for SE before 1.18

    You're not going to get a response by repeatedly condescending the writer and website, which is most of what you've done on this account.

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558

    Originally posted by Cynthe

     

    XD Yes indeed. Chocobos and airships are tentatively slated for 1.19. I'm one of those pushing for a proper AH and I think everyone is dying for mailing... 

    Just keep in mind that they haven't (afaik) stated how they'll be in or in what form. I've all ready seen some players assuming a lot of things regarding the chocobo issue.

  • Delsus1Delsus1 Member Posts: 48

    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3



    Originally posted by Delsus1



    I dont want the reviewer to tell me privately why they posted the review, I want them to say why in public, it would be the right thing to do,  they failed by releasing this review now, it should all be on their head as I say the only reason they would is for a final kick in the balls for SE before 1.18

    You're not going to get a response by repeatedly condescending the writer and website, which is most of what you've done on this account.


     

    If they have nothing to hide they will come out publicly if they have things to hide they wont, and your quote from what I said on the official foum was after Abriael got a temp ban for speaking hid mind about the corruption of this site just like me, so wheres my ban for speaking my mind.

    This site is corrupt and will only give developers that give them money decent ratings

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by lthompson94

     I do play. I just logged in a few days ago. Maybe it's not so obvious.

    No, not obvious at all since you continue to adhere to the "it's just an autoattack change" arguement.  You either don't play or have no idea what's in the patch.

    I'm really sorry to inform you, but their are hundred's of MMO's. Unique systems are almost nonexistant, just less used ones.

    Then why have an innovation score in the first place?  And how does any game score over a 0?

    One part lowers the score by 1 or two points, changing the overall score by, what, .2 or .3?

    Point is not the score necessarily.  It's the relevence of the content of the review. 

    I know because 1.18 isn't a miracle patch, there is no such thing. 1.18 won't raise the score to acceptable MMORPG levels. It won't make it a 7.0, it won't make it a 8.0.

    Again, opinion.

    Anyway, can't do this anymore.  You will obviously think what you will. 

    EDIT:  Sorry bout that, I said I was done... lol.  For real this time.

     Well I'll counter and then we'll call it a draw!

    I play the game. :)

    Innovation is taking systems and making them easier to use, more effective, or more productive. FFXIV has taken LOTS of their game designs and made it overy complicated to use. Menu-driven on a PC release? Click and activate skill and click? These are BACKWARDS of the industry.

    Relevance. We're talking about different things here.

    I'm not sure if I can agree on opinion here. 1.18, nor any singular patch (within this context), can raise ANY game from a 5.1 to a 8.0. There is no such thing as a miracle patch.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Originally posted by Delsus1



    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3








    Originally posted by Delsus1









    I dont want the reviewer to tell me privately why they posted the review, I want them to say why in public, it would be the right thing to do,  they failed by releasing this review now, it should all be on their head as I say the only reason they would is for a final kick in the balls for SE before 1.18

    You're not going to get a response by repeatedly condescending the writer and website, which is most of what you've done on this account.






     

    If they have nothing to hide they will come out publicly if they have things to hide they wont, and your quote from what I said on the official foum was after Abriael got a temp ban for speaking hid mind about the corruption of this site just like me, so wheres my ban for speaking my mind.

    This site is corrupt and will only give developers that give them money decent ratings

     We could argue that SE paid off MMORPG.com to hold off the review for a X number of months.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414

    Originally posted by Kaijin2k3

    Originally posted by Cynthe


     

    XD Yes indeed. Chocobos and airships are tentatively slated for 1.19. I'm one of those pushing for a proper AH and I think everyone is dying for mailing... 

    Just keep in mind that they haven't (afaik) stated how they'll be in or in what form. I've all ready seen some players assuming a lot of things regarding the chocobo issue.

    Yes they have, it's just basic chocobo rentals so far, they are looking into chocobo mounts you can raise and other animals. We don't know if the rentals are on rails or on a timer like XI though. Because that's SE for you, cryptic until the end. lol 

     

    Edit: Found the actual post, they are not on rails:  http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/16145-CHOCOBOS%21%21%21%21%21%21%21-1.19%21%21%21%21?p=231739#post231739

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558

    Originally posted by Cynthe

    Yes they have, it's just basic chocobo rentals so far, they are looking into chocobo mounts you can raise and other animals. We don't know if the rentals are on rails or on a timer like XI though. Because that's SE for you, cryptic until the end. lol 

    EDIT: Almost at the exact same time :P Thanks

  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414

    Muah ha I just edited my post !! :) You're welcome. 

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

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