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Daniel Erickson: Closed beta maybe, No open Beta!

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by parrotpholk

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Another thing I want to point out is people keep pointing to Rift or other games that offered OB's. What has been the end result of most of those games? OB didn't tell anyone there would be nothing to do once they reached endgame, OB's don't tell you what's important, that's how an MMO will stack up in longevity, it's as blind a purchae as it is buying a game before trying it at all in the end.

    Not really though.  People discovered in Rift for instance they did not even enjoy the first 20 levels so why stick around and that was the attitude of many.  AoC beta people discovered the first 20 levels were the only good thing at the time about the game.  So its not as blind a purchase if they find out the first little bit sucks in their mind and its not worth the purchase.  By not having a open beta then odds are they would have sold even more boxes on the front end.

    Well that applies to those who didn't like the game-play or style of game, which is not what I'm talking about. There will always be people who don't like a games approach. Whether they tried before they bought or not. That's part of the risk involved in buying any game.

    My point is an MMO isn't about what you experience in a few days play, it's about something you want to pay 15 a month to continually play. You bring up AOC, it actually had a lot of hype all the way up to release, once people got past level 20 they were utterly disappointed in what was there, OB told them it would be a different experience than it turned out being.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by gaou

    Originally posted by saleen

    My friend got into beta last week and I signed up before him!! Grrrrr.

    was it like this ;)

    http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110706

    http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110708

    http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110711

    http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/

    Funny image

     


    Originally posted by gaou

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Ok, I'm a bit confused. I was under the assumption that they were doing closed beta testing for quite some time now image

     

    He talked about 'closed beta' as a stress test thing, isn't that what open beta usually is?

    for the most part bioware has been trying to stay away from refering to it as closed beta and just refer to it as game testing because they feel "betas" have become more of a marketing thing and not so much for actual testing anymore. 

    Ok, so, it's focused closed beta testing, but it's still closed beta what people have been busy with for a year now, not alpha testing.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

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  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Leland, NCPosts: 3,275Member

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by parrotpholk


    Originally posted by Malickie

    Another thing I want to point out is people keep pointing to Rift or other games that offered OB's. What has been the end result of most of those games? OB didn't tell anyone there would be nothing to do once they reached endgame, OB's don't tell you what's important, that's how an MMO will stack up in longevity, it's as blind a purchae as it is buying a game before trying it at all in the end.

    Not really though.  People discovered in Rift for instance they did not even enjoy the first 20 levels so why stick around and that was the attitude of many.  AoC beta people discovered the first 20 levels were the only good thing at the time about the game.  So its not as blind a purchase if they find out the first little bit sucks in their mind and its not worth the purchase.  By not having a open beta then odds are they would have sold even more boxes on the front end.

    Well that applies to those who didn't like the game-play or style of game, which is not what I'm talking about. There will always be people who don't like a games approach. Whether they tried before they bought or not. That's part of the risk involved in buying any game.

    My point is an MMO isn't about what you experience in a few days play, it's about something you want to pay 15 a month to continually play. You bring up AOC, it actually had a lot of hype all the way up to release, once people got past level 20 they were utterly disappointed in what was there, OB told them it would be a different experience than it turned out being.

    We agree on the long term approach.  I am actually all for the end of open betas due to the fact that beta does not  mean the same thing as it did in say the EQ days or even WOW  beta days.  

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Elikal

    {mod edit}

     Who is this and what did you do with the real Elikal?

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by parrotpholk

     

    We agree on the long term approach.  I am actually all for the end of open betas due to the fact that beta does not  mean the same thing as it did in say the EQ days or even WOW  beta days.  

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Elikal

    {mod edit}

    image

    Ok, what have you done with Elikal!

     

    as far as open beta tests I agree with bioware's stance. People just need to wait for the reviews or wait until the company gives a trial.

    Open Beta has become a joke.

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin SoCal, CAPosts: 3,033Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Hmmm...no open beta could be concerning.  A developer offering an earlyish open beta has basically become a signal of confidence in their product.  Showing they don't have anything to hide, getting a lot of exposure etc.

    On the other hand, EA/BW may just feel that they have nothing to gain from an open beta.  If the hype is sufficient enough then they may think that an open beta may cost them more than it could gain them in sales.

    So basically I think the two possibilities are:

    1.  EA/BW has something to hide, and they don't want to offer an open beta because they are afraid is will generate negative word-of-mouth.  Of course, if they lower the NDA I think this could assuage this concern.

    2.  EA/BW just doesn't feel that an open beta will gain them anything.  Could be possible, the game already has tons of hype and basically guaranteed buyers.  It's not like they need an open beta for more exposure.

    I agree with #2.

     

    Bioware isn't having a beta, but inviting "game-play testers" for summary experience feedback, not to help with bugs and ironing out game-play code, etc.

     

    I think in this case with such a story-heavy game-play architect of SW:TOR, I'd rather not have an advance invite to game-play feedback this title, running through the first quarter of the story, perhaps.

     

    I am not endorsing SW:TOR as a long-term investment, because I know nothing of the end-game but have nightmares that it will be exactly like the mundaness of WoW and Rift, but it's the enjoyment of teh Journey I want to preserve for now.

     

    I think most mmorpg enthusiasts will purchase SW:TOR and many single-player RPG enthusiasts, so I dont really think that Bioware would believe that having an open beta (of sorts) would help them out much.

  • spookytoothspookytooth Lansing, MIPosts: 508Member

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Hmmm...no open beta could be concerning.  A developer offering an earlyish open beta has basically become a signal of confidence in their product.  Showing they don't have anything to hide, getting a lot of exposure etc.

    On the other hand, EA/BW may just feel that they have nothing to gain from an open beta.  If the hype is sufficient enough then they may think that an open beta may cost them more than it could gain them in sales.

    So basically I think the two possibilities are:

    1.  EA/BW has something to hide, and they don't want to offer an open beta because they are afraid is will generate negative word-of-mouth.  Of course, if they lower the NDA I think this could assuage this concern.

    2.  EA/BW just doesn't feel that an open beta will gain them anything.  Could be possible, the game already has tons of hype and basically guaranteed buyers.  It's not like they need an open beta for more exposure.

    I agree with #2.

     

    Bioware isn't having a beta, but inviting "game-play testers" for summary experience feedback, not to help with bugs and ironing out game-play code, etc.

     

    I think in this case with such a story-heavy game-play architect of SW:TOR, I'd rather not have an advance invite to game-play feedback this title, running through the first quarter of the story, perhaps.

     

    I am not endorsing SW:TOR as a long-term investment, because I know nothing of the end-game but have nightmares that it will be exactly like the mundaness of WoW and Rift, but it's the enjoyment of teh Journey I want to preserve for now.

     

    I think most mmorpg enthusiasts will purchase SW:TOR and many single-player RPG enthusiasts, so I dont really think that Bioware would believe that having an open beta (of sorts) would help them out much.

    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

  • Killswitch34Killswitch34 Edmonton, ABPosts: 87Member

    Originally posted by spookytooth

    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin


    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Hmmm...no open beta could be concerning.  A developer offering an earlyish open beta has basically become a signal of confidence in their product.  Showing they don't have anything to hide, getting a lot of exposure etc.

    On the other hand, EA/BW may just feel that they have nothing to gain from an open beta.  If the hype is sufficient enough then they may think that an open beta may cost them more than it could gain them in sales.

    So basically I think the two possibilities are:

    1.  EA/BW has something to hide, and they don't want to offer an open beta because they are afraid is will generate negative word-of-mouth.  Of course, if they lower the NDA I think this could assuage this concern.

    2.  EA/BW just doesn't feel that an open beta will gain them anything.  Could be possible, the game already has tons of hype and basically guaranteed buyers.  It's not like they need an open beta for more exposure.

    I agree with #2.

     

    Bioware isn't having a beta, but inviting "game-play testers" for summary experience feedback, not to help with bugs and ironing out game-play code, etc.

     

    I think in this case with such a story-heavy game-play architect of SW:TOR, I'd rather not have an advance invite to game-play feedback this title, running through the first quarter of the story, perhaps.

     

    I am not endorsing SW:TOR as a long-term investment, because I know nothing of the end-game but have nightmares that it will be exactly like the mundaness of WoW and Rift, but it's the enjoyment of teh Journey I want to preserve for now.

     

    I think most mmorpg enthusiasts will purchase SW:TOR and many single-player RPG enthusiasts, so I dont really think that Bioware would believe that having an open beta (of sorts) would help them out much.

    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Pretty sure that the cost was more around 100mil, not 150. There is a multitude of reasons to not do an open beta. They already have more then enough testers signed up so they can stress test if they really need to. There is also the story reason, why should hundreds of thousands of people ruin the story for themselves in open beta? Thats just a joke. There is absolutely no reason to have an open beta. The opinions of almost everyone who has played the game has already said it was polished and extremely playable. MMO.Maverick has 1 or 2 threads on that I believe.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by spookytooth

    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Did you just say TOR needs more marketing, maybe I'm mistaking your meaning, but it sounds an awful lot like you did?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by spookytooth



    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Did you just say TOR needs more marketing, maybe I'm mistaking your meaning, but it sounds an awful lot like you did?

    Of course it does. Becuse a new large budget MMO made by a well known company like bioware, based on a multigenrational beloved Sci Fi IP that is famous world wide, needs all the help it can get.

    (yes that was sarcasm)

    image

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  • spookytoothspookytooth Lansing, MIPosts: 508Member

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by spookytooth



    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Did you just say TOR needs more marketing, maybe I'm mistaking your meaning, but it sounds an awful lot like you did?

    you heard me right yes.

    unless you think the folks at EA/Bioware are sitting back with satisfaction, nodding to eachother saying "oh yeah, we've done enough". Like I said, 150mil is a big gamble. Only a fool would declare victory several months before the game has even launched. But I know its very fashionable in some circles to believe that everyone is already going to buy the game just because its starwars and its bioware.

    Does it need more marketing? It needs everything it can get.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by spookytooth

     

    you heard me right yes.

    unless you think the folks at EA/Bioware are sitting back with satisfaction, nodding to eachother saying "oh yeah, we've done enough". Like I said, 150mil is a big gamble. Only a fool would declare victory several months before the game has even launched. But I know its very fashionable in some circles to believe that everyone is already going to buy the game just because its starwars and its bioware.

    Does it need more marketing? It needs everything it can get.

     According to you it would seem that's exactly what they're doing, I mean they're not planning for an open beta afterall...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • spookytoothspookytooth Lansing, MIPosts: 508Member

    Originally posted by Tardcore

    Originally posted by Malickie


    Originally posted by spookytooth



    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Did you just say TOR needs more marketing, maybe I'm mistaking your meaning, but it sounds an awful lot like you did?

    Of course it does. Becuse a new large budget MMO made by a well known company like bioware, based on a multigenrational beloved Sci Fi IP that is famous world wide, needs all the help it can get.

    (yes that was sarcasm)

    just out of morbid curosity...

    if you were the head honcho at EA, and marketing approached about doing TV adds for the game - you would shoot down the idea? Because being bioware and starwars is all you need....

    I can assure you, as bizzare as I may sound to you, you sound equally bizarre to me =)

  • spookytoothspookytooth Lansing, MIPosts: 508Member

    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by spookytooth


     

    you heard me right yes.

    unless you think the folks at EA/Bioware are sitting back with satisfaction, nodding to eachother saying "oh yeah, we've done enough". Like I said, 150mil is a big gamble. Only a fool would declare victory several months before the game has even launched. But I know its very fashionable in some circles to believe that everyone is already going to buy the game just because its starwars and its bioware.

    Does it need more marketing? It needs everything it can get.

     According to you it would seem that's exactly what they're doing, I mean they're not planning for an open beta afterall...

    thats more of an evasion than a response. But alright, I'll take it.

    image cheers yall

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,002Member Uncommon

    Old news, and not unexpected, they don't need an open beta and they'll still sell over a million copies at the start.

    From early play testers we've heard a number of negative complaints, lack of originality, or graphics issues or what have you, but really haven't heard one issue with the level of polish.  Seems like what areas they chose to let people see work well for the most part.

    I'm not concerned, I'd still buy it at launch without an open beta. (though I still might not buy it for several other reasons)

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by spookytooth

     

    thats more of an evasion than a response. But alright, I'll take it.

    image cheers yall

    Maybe so, but I never said they won't market the product more, I just don't think an OB is a needed step to take in that. They've said when launch is coming we'll hear about it loud and clear, which says to me advertising will pick up 150%.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    Originally posted by Isane

    Originally posted by taus01

    Must be some very good reason, although i can only think of one. It's not as polished/finished as they make us beleive.

    That's it for me, not going to buy this game for 60 bucks without a free sneak peek. Going to wait until it gets cheaper or there are free 14 day trials.

    15:45 ~ end

    http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/8053/GRTV:+Star+Wars:+The+Old+Republic/

     

    Well I for one think of this differently , it is an immediate buy now.

    No open Beta is a massive plus

    I agree with Isane.

    Massive kudos to Bioware for reminding the industry and players what the purpose of testing actually is (hint: it's not a marketing tool).

    Firebrand Art

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  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Originally posted by spookytooth

    Originally posted by Tardcore


    Originally posted by Malickie


    Originally posted by spookytooth



    I'm not sure I agree with #1. But #2 is dead wrong.

    If you spend 150million on a game then you need it to be a big success. And as had been pointed out endlessly on these boards, "open beta" is more a marketing tool than any real beta test. Its the last big marketing push before launch. With so much at stake, not doing an open beta is just odd.

    Did you just say TOR needs more marketing, maybe I'm mistaking your meaning, but it sounds an awful lot like you did?

    Of course it does. Becuse a new large budget MMO made by a well known company like bioware, based on a multigenrational beloved Sci Fi IP that is famous world wide, needs all the help it can get.

    (yes that was sarcasm)

    just out of morbid curosity...

    if you were the head honcho at EA, and marketing approached about doing TV adds for the game - you would shoot down the idea? Because being bioware and starwars is all you need....

    I can assure you, as bizzare as I may sound to you, you sound equally bizarre to me =)

    Actually I would. Televison advertisements are going to primarily reach people who are not fans of MMOs, know nothing of MMOs, and care nothing for MMOs. Plus are exhorbitantly expensive. So would prove to be a complete and total waste fo time and resources vs general consumer interest spawned.

    I would instead focus on the "plugged in" community of the interweb and rely on them to spread the news to those outside via way of mouth. Much much more effective, much cheaper, and there is already large network of web communities that will happily spread your advertizing propaganda for free.

    image

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  • Hero_AlphaHero_Alpha Pikeville, KYPosts: 60Member Uncommon

    Also playing the game with the way the story is set up kinda ruins it. It would be best to start fresh and not play throu and have to have ur char deleted and re-created to do the same story. Although u can just play Jedi if at launch u plan on playing Agent persay. They can get the testing/bugs straight with a smaller group since open betas are basically free previews as a few people have said.

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  • sungodrasungodra San Francisco, CAPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

    {mod edit}

    {mod edit} No offense mate, but for a long time I noticed hate posts from you on this game... Not trying to be insulting or name calling, just don't know how else to describe it.

    {mod edit}

    image


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  • Hekke29Hekke29 PilaPosts: 102Member Uncommon

    dont worry OP, i have RL friend who was in beta at november/december and it already was WAY better than FF14 at release, so after aproximately a year of work more, it willbe massively better, U wont get dissapointed same as so many people at FF14 launch :)

     

    lets just wait for new info, as every time they show something new, its better and better :)

    “Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.” Dr.Seuss

  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Hekke29

    dont worry OP, i have RL friend who was in beta at november/december and it already was WAY better than FF14 at release, so after aproximately a year of work more, it willbe massively better, U wont get dissapointed same as so many people at FF14 launch :)

     

    lets just wait for new info, as every time they show something new, its better and better :)

    To be WAY better than FF14 is not really saying much. ;)

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 DublinPosts: 971Member

    Hmm... I'd be more worried about lack of an open beta if BioWare were running their testing like every other company. They're not - there are no "keys" for beta, they are bringing people into testing soley out of those already registered on their site.

     

    If I had 1.25 million (the last number quoted) signed up already, and some of them signed up to the site for 3 years, I wouldn't bother risking the ire of the community by going elsewhere looking for testers.

     

    If I'm looking for testers, period, I'd be more interested in taking testers who have a proven interest in the game as opposed to (say) anyone with a fileplanet account. 

     

    As far as Rfit goes, since people keep bringing it up - how high a profile did that game have before it started it's beta? Not very. The hype shot way up after the various contests for keys started and the profile of the game went up. By contrast, is there a MMO player out there who has not yet heard of SW:TOR? *listens to the sound of tumbleweeds* Thought so.

     

    I'm more interested in the NDA dropping than an open beta tbh. That's really when we'll know there's nothing to "hide" (not that I think there is, but it's apparent some do).

     

  • garrygarry Birmingham, ALPosts: 263Member

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    There is an agreement between Lucas and Bioware, Lucas get a % of the box sale.

     Think I must disagree a little. Bioware will get all of the Box sales. LucasArts will then get 30% of all Profits from subs. I wish I could remember the article I read about this but it was in some interview with an EA rep I think. Don't flame. just something I read somewhere. Sounds right to me from a business aspect as LucasArts is not a financial investor in the project. Bioware raised the money from investors on the strength of the IP and hope to recover their initial investment from the Box sales, also why it is a subscriber based Pay to buy - Pay to play. We may also see in game micro-transactions although that may come after launch and population stabilizes. Almost certainly cosmetic/vanity items only at first. Unknown after.

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