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General: Excerpts from the F2P Hater Handbook

135

Comments

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,085

    Yep, sure - lets all just bend over the F2P barrell and let these developers give it to us for the rest of our MMO playing lives. I mean, the industry think it's a good idea, guys. They're not looking to maximize the amount of cash they can suck from each potential customer, no sir.

     

    I read a quote in these forums somewhere, at some time, that went something like this: "If you look a little closer you'll see the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt."

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • EndDreamEndDream Member Posts: 1,152

    Originally posted by MyGarona

    If f2p saves any jobs it is a better alternative for failed MMOs than complete shutdown. As usual - if you don't like it, don't play it. Deleting all my 85s on WoW was incredibly liberating.

    Don't worry, if you call Blizzard they will restore them for you. =)

    Remember Old School Ultima Online

  • Cyberdeck7Cyberdeck7 Member UncommonPosts: 239

    MMO's didn't used to be about dressup dolls or paying extra to get an advantage (unless you supported the gold farmers) so WTF?

    These things come and go in waves. It's similar to the AOL payment models back during the "Information SuperHighway" days. It'll pass. The market is absolutely flooded with crap right now and developers are focused on making replicable little red dresses instead of innovating. Think we'll ever see horseback combat from LoTRo now? They're so desperate that they're selling Legendary items in the Lotro store. I guess it's great if you want to pay to dress up your character, but without any sense of accomplishment the game is gutted now.

    F2P and Freemium are marketing terms for 'Demo.' Additionally, someone has to pay so you can play - who's that going to be - it seems funny to me that all these F2Pers are screaming capitalism, but forgetting that they're basically asking everyone else to pay their ticket.

  • AselliaAsellia Member UncommonPosts: 174

    You know, everytime I see a topic like this, I ponder something inside myself. Something that seems very apparent about the people I see arguing against F2P.

     

    I have to ask you. You're flailing and wailing about all F2P going to be, or is "Buy to Win". But my question is, why do you worry so much about other people being strong, and not just.. you know.. play the game and have fun?

  • balduranbgbalduranbg Member Posts: 23

    I prefer P2P games although I do play F2P games as well. But I do have to admit that articles like this one make me a Richard Aihoshi hater.

  • merv808merv808 Member UncommonPosts: 511

    Originally posted by Rinna

    Don't forget... slippery slope...  If everyone starts going F2P then eventually all games will be 'ye with the most money wins' - where nothing is based on skill or time spent, everything is based on how much money you can afford to throw at the game to be uberleetz.

     

     

    Doesn't this apply in F2P as well as P2P? The fact that gold sellers and power levelers are raking in cash at a huge clip indicates it does

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by zidane01970

    You know, everytime I see a topic like this, I ponder something inside myself. Something that seems very apparent about the people I see arguing against F2P.

     

    I have to ask you. You're flailing and wailing about all F2P going to be, or is "Buy to Win". But my question is, why do you worry so much about other people being strong, and not just.. you know.. play the game and have fun?

    I could ask you similarly: why does it matter to you why others dislike cash shops or F2P games?

    Most people who dislike cashshops and/or F2P just avoid such MMOs. In fact most of those people who don't like F2P don't spend time ranting about how they dislike cash shops and/or F2P until something or someone provokes them.

    People have different preferences in what they want an MMO to be. Some people like F2P, some don't. Articles like Mr. Aihoshi's do nothing but bait people into arguments over personal preference. It's not productive, and personally I'd report some of Aihosi's articles as trolling/flame-baiting if I could.

  • EricDanieEricDanie Member UncommonPosts: 2,238

    Originally posted by Thanosxp

    Originally posted by Rawiz

    Richard has purchased [Troll Blade of Doom], cost $5.

    Now, if you equip it with your [Cloak of Far-fetchedness], [Loincloth of Propaganda] and [Rags of Intolerance], you will have a complete set!

    Absurd! We all know it's missing the "Monocle of narrowed vision" in that set.

    Please do not forget the costs for enchanting it with the best things available.

    Anyway, nothing to see here, the sequence of haters gonna hate pictures pretty much summed up the article. For those who aren't following this website for long, once in a while he dedicates one of his articles especially to the audience he doesn't seem to be writing to - the ones that dislike F2P (so everyone actually gets baited into an amusing thread of flames), don't mind us though, because we are illogical monsters, after all F2P games seem to generate a much higher revenue than P2P games, thanks to more mass appeal for the bandwagon and the possibility of spending way more than $15 a month for those who want to (it is optional though!).

  • VyethVyeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,461

    Originally posted by wiseguy21

    but seriously, why would you follow a coloumn on free to play MMOs if you dislike the idea? Is it for a free arguement?

    Oh, thats an easy one..

    (In my best Bromance dialect ever) "Because anything that I do not like should not exist.. EVER bro!"

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099

    The more I see of the F2P/itemshop industry and its effect on gaming, the more my attitude hardens into a blunt "kill it with fire"

  • RevivialRevivial Member Posts: 194

    Originally posted by Ceridith

     

    I could ask you similarly: why does it matter to you why others dislike cash shops or F2P games?

    Most people who dislike cashshops and/or F2P just avoid such MMOs. In fact most of those people who don't like F2P don't spend time ranting about how they dislike cash shops and/or F2P until something or someone provokes them.

    People have different preferences in what they want an MMO to be. Some people like F2P, some don't. Articles like Mr. Aihoshi's do nothing but bait people into arguments over personal preference. It's not productive, and personally I'd report some of Aihosi's articles as trolling/flame-baiting if I could.

    Too true.

    Ultimatly when the government starts wanting to tax these "digital" vanity items because of their monetary value, i will be there pushing for this bill to pass.

    One sub, one world.

     

    PS: Demo's or limited versions of MMOs is a great way to get people leary of purchase to try your product.  Does not make it a F2P or Freemium game. Anymore then Warcraft is now a f2p or freemium game now with their unlimited trial.

    "I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
    - John Galt

  • travamarstravamars Member CommonPosts: 417

    I like f2p, lets just understand that.....

    but I cant believe this guy gets paid to write this crap. It's always the same thing about once a month, he takes cheap shots at people that dont like f2p.

    And if you try to give your opinion your labeled a hater, or banned from this site.

    Can they not find a guy better educated that knows something interesting to say about f2p.

    I found a handbook called "Suckup shills for f2p" ....want me to read that?

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657

    75 posts and 2700 views within 26 hours of the original article says Richard is doing what he's supposed to do.

    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • biplexbiplex Member Posts: 268

    Richard, you had some good texts here, but this one is not one of them. This is the most unprofessional and biased post and totaly farfetched i ever seen by mmorpg editors.I do not like f2p games, really. Sad part it is something we won't escape that. F2P and freemium models are so attractive to game companies there won't be P2P games made soon :( So stop crying - it will be your way in a couple of years anyway, and we will be left with nothing to play... 

    image
    http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online

  • ArcheminosArcheminos Member Posts: 283

    Why are people getting angry over satire when everything he says is just an exaggeration of what anti-F2P people say and do? He didn't say all do these things, but the most vocal of them sure as heck do.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Also you missed the most important chapter: "F2P breaks my immershunz";

    1. an item shop often ends up looking and feeling like intrusive advertising in game

     

    2. being able to get stuff for your character out of non-ingame sources is a gross violation of the "rp" bit in "mmorpg"

     

    Actually, DarkPony, the item I highlighted is a very valid reason to not like it. I play games to play games, coincidentally enough, not to have advertising thrown up in my face at seemingly any opportunity they can find to "Visit the cash shop!"

    That shouldn't be a sarcastic point at all (assuming you meant it that way).

    For #2, again... goes back to the point of playing a game. Being able to get individual items in-game using outside resources (ie. real world money) undermines the point of playing a game in the first place and, yes, distracts from what one is - presumably - logged into the game to do which is, again, to play the game.

    There's nothing to be sarcastic about in those two items - even if you might disagree. They are two valid issues.

    To put it plainly...  I play games to experience, enjoy and, yes, immerse myself in the gameplay experience. I log in to be distracted by in-game advertisements or having to worry about "oh shit, I need to purchase more Cash Shop credits..."

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by travamars

    I like f2p, lets just understand that.....

    but I cant believe this guy gets paid to write this crap. It's always the same thing about once a month, he takes cheap shots at people that dont like f2p.

    And if you try to give your opinion your labeled a hater, or banned from this site.

    Can they not find a guy better educated that knows something interesting to say about f2p.

    I found a handbook called "Suckup shills for f2p" ....want me to read that?

    This is what keeps him going, the people who act as though he's kicking kittens with his articles. This generates more hits for his articles. He really doesn't say much to warrant such anger, he just mocks certain popular opinions. He's not attacking travamars but travamars is attacking him.

    Ask yourself this, is he making you change your mind? Obviously not, yet he confronts your opinion.

    The fact of the matter is many people on this site like to play victim, it justifies their anger laced posts. You see the same thing when ever this site covers something many view as not being an MMO, or something that's not an MMO at all. People act victimized for no reason what so ever. Is it any surprise when they're directly questioned (or their opinions are) they go into a violent rage as we see in these threads? It's not, not to me at least.

    There's a difference between taking "cheap shots" at you and confronting an opinion you may hold.

    BTW: You're not banned from this site because you disagree, you're banned because you break rules.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    So what's the name of the handbook the OP is using. F2P Fanbois Handbook? Seriously, this is all that you could to come up with this time around is some handbook so few have heard of to try and make you sound less anything to do with F2P is automateically great than you are?

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980



    Originally posted by Archeminos





    Why are people getting angry over satire when everything he says is just an exaggeration of what anti-F2P people say and do? He didn't say all do these things, but the most vocal of them sure as heck do.






     

    Because in the past Mr. Aihoshi has made similar comments about anyone who voices any disapproval of F2P MMOs... only they weren't made in satire.

    It's hard to take his article as just 'poking fun' at those who he's made clear he thinks are narrow minded, ignorant, or otherwise misinformed, simply because they have a differing opinion as to the quality of the F2P model.

    I simply don't see how this article was in any way constructive or contributing to the MMORPG community. All it's served to do is act like flame bait to stir up more 'us vs. them' hatred over an issue that's purely a matter of personal preference.


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    So what's the name of the handbook the OP is using. F2P Fanbois Handbook? Seriously, this is all that you could to come up with this time around is some handbook so few have heard of to try and make you sound less anything to do with F2P is automateically great than you are?

    The more replies I read the more I see where RA is coming from. Very few actually read what he has to say and reply to it, they get locked in a fit of rage, over the subject matter. Which OFC is F2P and the not so truthful stigma that's carried with it.

    I personally am not a fan of the model, I've always felt there was a lack of quality in most offerings, so I stay away from all even those that might not be of such low tech variety. This is something else he talks about and he's right about it, do you see me taking offense? Na, he's entitled to his opinion to.

    Again I can't ignore the fact people get angry over the silliest things on this site. And apply that to these threads, as it just reinforces my opinion of that.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Gruug

    Spending real money in what is called by that games developers as a F2P game is totally contrary. Drop the "free" part as part of the marketing scheme and maybe some of the saner among us will come onboard. Until then, F2P is nothing but a scam. Unfortunately, many still don't WANT to believe that.

    Beliefs... now that's a good place to go. Let's run with that.


    • Not every F2P games sells items that you need in order to progress.

    • You can't make that statement. They may not sell products that are necessary to *you*. However, to others, they very well may, and quite likely do... there is that cited "10% who pay the most" to consider. I really hope you're not going to claim something silly like "they're all just buying vanity items"... 'cause you wouldn't know that either.

    • Few F2P MMOs make the claim that the entire game is free.

    • You mean aside from the huge 'FREE!' splattered all over all their advertising, in their PR and in the descriptions scattered about their websites? Also, the issue isn't that people are outraged over "everything not being free". Believe it or not, people are generally very well aware that Cash Shop = having to spend money to get stuff. 

    • Not every F2P is PvP, so 'paying for advantage over other players' is an odd argument when players aren't competing.

    • And that has exactly what to do with the F2P/Cash Shop MMOs that *do* have PvP, and their affect on people who enjoy PvP? Here's a hint: Absolutely nothing. That something isn't applicable in some cases is not an indication that it's not applicable in all.

    • The majority of F2P gamers pay absolutely nothing the entire time they play the game.

    • Of course, we never see metrics about how long those who never pay a dime actually stick with the game, and up to what point they play before moving on. Funny, that... but not surprising.

    •  

    • It's wonderful PR spin that proponents are all too happy to state over and over... but yet fall oddly silent and change topics when you ask them to break it down into more specific details like, "how many of those who aren't paying a dime are actually actively playing the game at all?"... keeping in mind that any F2P account created is technically always "active" because there's no need to cancel them.

    •  

    • I created an account to give Allods a try.. .geeze... forever ago. Played it a few times over a couple days and haven't touched it since. Regardless,  my account is still considered "active" and you bet your ass if PR for that game starts citing "number of active accounts", that my - long unused - account is counted among them.

    •  

    • By the same token, all those who have accounts, but aren't actually playing also aren't "spending any money". So, the argument that "the majority don't spend a dime" is also suspect... because it doesn't account for how many of those "not paying a dime" also aren't playing the game at all.

    •  

    • That whole "majority of people don't pay a dime" thing sounds really, really impressive until you look past the shiny surface and realize that F2P MMO devs don't tend to release specific numbers of how their actual player-base breaks down. Then the cracks start to show.

    •  

    • Let's see some numbers that show:

    • 1) How many are actively playing the game, logging in and playing about three times a week, for at least an hour at a time - a really casual schedule - and who have logged in at least once during the past month (being really generous here). Anyone who hasn't logged in for over a month is clearly not actively playing.

    • 2) How many of them are "dabblers"? People who log in every now and again - maybe twice a week or less - spend an hour or so, and log out, but aren't actually actively playing or progressing in the game? Maybe they log in to be social more than anything. That type would likely never need to spend a dime, because they're barely playing the game at all.

    • 3) Based on those very loose (and generous) conditions... of the remaining number of people who have logged in within the past month, and are actively playing the game, logging in regularly and actually going through the content.. how many of those people are doing so without ever paying a dime?

    •  

    • I'm not asking you to answer that question, Lokto, as you likely wouldn't have access to that info. I doubt anyone here would. But, it's information that would be very interesting to see and - I believe - would have very different results with those criteria in play. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the % of people who never pay a time decrease, and the % of those who do pay increase. That's my prediction on the matter, and it will likely remain as such because I don't see any F2P developer or publisher ever releasing such specific details. Would lessen the "oomph" of their PR.

    •  

    • F2P games add regular content for both free players and paying players - there is no charge for expansions.

    • There are P2P MMOs do the same, in terms of adding new content that doesn't require an additional purchase. Lineage 2 has never had a single retail expansion in all its years online, for one example. Eve Online is another... to name just two. There are P2P MMOs that do not charge for the client download and only require that you pay the first month's subscription to start playing.

    • F2P games are digital download, offering their players the ability to try the game for as long as thy want before they opt to spend a single cent on the game.

    • Umm.. yes, that's why they call it "free to play", because there's no cost of entry. You're praising something for being something it's supposed to be, by definition. It's like saying "sugar free soda is better than regular soda because it's sugar free!" It's a completely self-reinforcing argument. Not exactly compelling. It's also not what people have issue with, which also makes your remark something of a strawman. What people have issue with, and has been discussed over and over again, is how the games are designed and how the Cash Shops are set up.

       

    This is where what people WANT to believe really comes into play. You do not WANT to believe those things, therefore you dismiss them as false, yet you accuse others of the same behaviour you display. You will not accept any of those things, despite the inability to present any data to refute them.

    Who are you talking to, exactly, and how do you know what people WANT to believe? You're making an awful lot of assumptions of what others think and what others do in this post of yours.

     This is where the argument is at an impasse. It is not on the side of people who accept F2P as an opton for gaming, but on the other side, where arguments are fueled by unsupported talking points, insults and personal attacks against those who do not buy into what those who dislike the F2P business model WANT to believe.

    Okay, so you're basically turning a blind eye/ear to all the crap that comes from the F2P crowd - including Aihoshi himself via his well-documented pot-shots and condescending remarks about those who disagree with him. You're choosing to ignore the *many* very well thought out and supported arguments against F2P.... so you can turn around and claim that none have been made. 

    And you really believe yours is a sound argument...?

    Interesting.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Ceridith

     

    (mod edit)

    He doesn't take pot shots at individuals, he addresses opinions. It's not about poking fun, it's about myth busting, with a little satire thrown in.

    An opinion piece isn't about being constructive or contributing to the greater good, it's about offering a perpsective view and nothing more.

    No offense to you, but...

    To fault a writer for creating an us vs them discusion is almost laughable.. correction... it is laughable considering what site we're on. If anything he's just generating what 90% of those on this site do, everything here results in an us vs them scenario. You don't have to say much at all for that to be the result here.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AstraeisAstraeis Member UncommonPosts: 378

    Deep sigh.

    It takes one to know one.

  • sumo0sumo0 Member UncommonPosts: 115

    lets not forget that theres a big difference between the games designed for f2p and those failed p2p games. games that are designed for f2p are usually boring and made for simpletons.

    i can name many f2p games that all suck, but ofc i can do the same with p2p. but its a given fact that f2p is rubbish most of the time!

  • crazynannycrazynanny Member Posts: 173


    Originally posted by itgrowls Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.
    Hehe I'm always baffled with this kind of perspective. You can buy +50 to each stat in lotro store. Best item You can get from raid will give around 150 statwise(say 50 str, 50 agi and 50 vit). So buing 3 x +50 stats is like obtaining best item in game. Yet because they aren't put on some kind special "cloak of uberness" it's fine and dandy as they don't sell gear and thus advantage...seriously? 

    As for article I find it closer to trolling than satire. And character of comments seems to confirm that. I for one would not want such controversy on my site, but whatever...

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