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Star Trek Online: The 2011 Re-Review

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  • jmcgrathjmcgrath PortlaoisePosts: 23Member

    As an addition to my above post - concerning this review and STO...

     

    ... I shall be putting more weight on the up to date review when it is released, since this reflects a game's condition that will not be the case for more than a fortnight.

     

    Thank you.

  • shakermaker0shakermaker0 SheffieldPosts: 194Member

    The genre and games move on - six months ago this was higher, by todays standard (post Rift, Cataclysm, any number of new releases) Star Trek is starting to look dated. I don't understand why such anger comes forth with a review score? It is a guideline for your consideration, if you read the review you will glean an opinion as to whether you will like this title or not. Lori is entitled to her opinion, and many will take it because she is a good writer, just because you don't personally agree doesn't mean you in anyway write or deserve the right to call BS and hate to someone who has toiled for weeks upon weeks creating something for you to read. Sometimes the community should look at some of the comments and realise the anger and nastiness that comes across to something as trivial as a review of Star Trek Online.

    MMORPG.com is having an overhaul of the review system, and I suspect we will see a lot of lower scores, and some higher ones, than usual. And if you were to take a look objectively at the site; this is an operation run by a lot of people, reviews are pitched and completed month in advance, and a patch coming out sometime doesn't come to consideration 3 months before a proposed review. Yes the release of this review now looks a little ill-informed, but can the site really wait for every patch and update? 

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by AG-Vuk

    This explains the raging Fanboi'sm that affecting this thread . So much rage by the LTS'ers.

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=221255

    I thought STO was a horrible game, that said I don't think anyone really cares about the score itself, it's the backwards movement of what even the reviewer expresses as an improved experience.

    "The game is better so I'm going to lower the score."-- this makes no sense

    I understand that the reviewer is a different person, I also understand MMORPG.com is changing up how they review games. Still even being as anit-Crytic as I am, I can't help but scratch my head over this.

    I don't even understand reviewing things if there is no balance in how things are being reviewed. No guidance in how a game stacks up in the greater scheme of the genre.

    IMO it should be structured like this. 

    a low score 1-5 for games like MO, Alganon, etcc. basically games with glaring issues and not so stellar craftsmanship.

    A medium score 5-7. Games like AOC, WAR, STO etc.. basically games that are playable and fun yet not exactly the best choices.

    high scores 8-10. Games that stick out, have an excellent amount of polish, or truly unique features.

    When a game is re-reviewed there should be a criteria that a score can't be lowered if it has been improved on. Instead it should move from a 7.5 to a 7.8 or something along those lines.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • tachgbtachgb SheffieldPosts: 790Member

    Awaiting for the real re-review.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon

    A continuation of my thoughts.

     It's evident MMORPG.com has rendered this review moot, as they are saying there's another already planned.

    If they want to take STO down in score there is a better way to do it, that's when they upgrade to their new approach. I think the best way to do that is remove the score from all existing reviews, and have a group (with a criteria to follow) read each review and add a score based on that review as well as chosen criteria.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • thefraylthefrayl Tucson, AZPosts: 14Member

    Originally posted by Malickie



    A continuation of my thoughts.

     It's evident MMORPG.com has rendered this review moot, as they are saying there's another already planned.

    If they want to take STO down in score there is a better way to do it, that's when they upgrade to their new approach. I think the best way to do that is remove the score from all existing reviews, and have a group (with a criteria to follow) go through read the review and add a score based on that review.


     

     Sounds like an elegant solution, but I think that would require a large amount of man hours to accomplish. Would it really be worth it?

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by thefrayl



    Originally posted by Malickie





    A continuation of my thoughts.

     It's evident MMORPG.com has rendered this review moot, as they are saying there's another already planned.

    If they want to take STO down in score there is a better way to do it, that's when they upgrade to their new approach. I think the best way to do that is remove the score from all existing reviews, and have a group (with a criteria to follow) go through read the review and add a score based on that review.






     

     Sounds like an elegant solution, but I think that would require a large amount of man hours to accomplish. Would it really be worth it?

    In the long run IMO yes, as it would create a balanced criteria for all furture reviews people view here.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Xondar123Xondar123 None of Your Business, BCPosts: 2,543Member

    Great review! Couldn't agree with it more.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 None of Your Business, BCPosts: 2,543Member

    Originally posted by J4ck_5p4rr0w

    That makes no sense. The last review was 7.4, and the game has improved since then. Your saying the game has gotten worse since the last review? I guess this websites own reviewers arent even in agreement.

    The score of the past review was bought by Atari. If you read the review without looking at the score it reads like he was going to give the game 6.0. But in the end they jacked up the review score.

    If you were at this site when STO was first released, they had STO ads all over the place. There was a background, a release timer, ads to pre-order in another place, etc. etc.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 None of Your Business, BCPosts: 2,543Member

    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

    Originally posted by MikeB




    Also, let me add that the review was in progress long before Season 4 was set to hit live servers. We'll most certainly re-visit the game post-Season 4.

     

    "Long before"? How long exactly? A week? A month? How much playtime did the author have? Those would be some good things to include in your "new system" at the begining of every review.

    So now the CDF has resorted to shooting the messenger rather vthan attacking the arguments. Nice.

  • Grand_NagusGrand_Nagus Dublin, GAPosts: 329Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by Grand_Nagus


    Originally posted by MikeB




    Also, let me add that the review was in progress long before Season 4 was set to hit live servers. We'll most certainly re-visit the game post-Season 4.

     

    "Long before"? How long exactly? A week? A month? How much playtime did the author have? Those would be some good things to include in your "new system" at the begining of every review.

    So now the CDF has resorted to shooting the messenger rather vthan attacking the arguments. Nice.

     

    I dont think you understand that phrase, because "shooting the messenger" implies making personal attacks against someone. I havent done that.

  • Everitt_CageEveritt_Cage Dublin, GAPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by Xondar123


    The score of the past review was bought by Atari.

     

    Ah, so your saying MMORPG sells reviews. I guess thats why DCU has an 8 even though though hardly anyone is playing(on PC) anymore.
  • residentxresidentx Columbia, MDPosts: 88Member

    This game is horrible. I bought it at the beginning and cancel my preorder and got my money back. Then I resub to get access the foundry last week. But here's what really irked me about this game. I wanted to be a human starfleet officer. The character tool stinks for humans.

    Next, the game play was just at mmorpg said. This comment hit the hammer on the nail, "This is likely due, at least in part, to the sub-par quality of the ground missions. They feel awkward and poorly designed, and the characters seem far slower to respond to frantic button mashing than is acceptable at this stage of the MMO industry. You can use tactics like flanking, which does give players some bonuses for maneuvering with finesse instead of random flailing, but it isn’t enough to make ground combat an enjoyable experience. "  I quite my sub after two days. 1 day for the download and the next day I created two characters and was so sorry this game couldn't be more.

    STO still needs more work. The need to visit Elite Force and bring in those weapons.

  • residentxresidentx Columbia, MDPosts: 88Member

    They need to visit Elite Force I & II and bring in those weapons.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Hey all, just stepping in for some updates.

    Firstly, we stand by Lori's score.  It may not be fair to everyone, but reviews are equal parts opinion and objective criticism.  In that much, Lori did very well.

    Secondly, we are indeed instituting a new review process, and it has its share of growing pains.  Namely, in terms of "Re-Reviews" we're also changing our process there.  In short, going forward our Re-Reviews will basically be evaluations based upon the previous review.  We'll still cover the game in the listed categories in this review, and as such our scores are generally going to skew lower than before.  But, we'll try our damnedest next time to both a.) time the review better and b.) make sure we communicate why a score goes down or up.

    Thanks for your patience and feedback.  It's all being heard.

  • Everitt_CageEveritt_Cage Dublin, GAPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Well still cover the game in the listed categories in this review, and as such our scores are generally going to skew lower than before.

     

    So what other games have you scored down recently? You realize your going to have to actually do this now to back up your statement above, right? So bring on your lower reviews for the other games and enjoy watching those communities rail the site.
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Yep, well aware that it's going to cause some noise, but we're not above hearing it.  My goal as editor is to make sure our reviews objectively rate each of what we consider the core tennants of the MMO.  The 7 categories within Lori's review reflect that.  And they'll be scored in every review from here on out.

  • TarotMageTarotMage Tampa, FLPosts: 126Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey all, just stepping in for some updates.

    Firstly, we stand by Lori's score.  It may not be fair to everyone, but reviews are equal parts opinion and objective criticism.  In that much, Lori did very well.

    Secondly, we are indeed instituting a new review process, and it has its share of growing pains.  Namely, in terms of "Re-Reviews" we're also changing our process there.  In short, going forward our Re-Reviews will basically be evaluations based upon the previous review.  We'll still cover the game in the listed categories in this review, and as such our scores are generally going to skew lower than before.  But, we'll try our damnedest next time to both a.) time the review better and b.) make sure we communicate why a score goes down or up.

    Thanks for your patience and feedback.  It's all being heard.

     I have no problem with the score or how you got to it. It is your right to do so. What I don't understand is why this 're-review' was sent out on the eve of new content that addresses ground combat - one of the reviewer's main critcisms. Maybe it's me but I fail to understand why it was such a big deal to get this 're-review' on the site. But hey, if MMORPG.com wants to release a review shortly before a possible improvement is added to the game, only to come back later and review it again (thereby making the previous review a waste of time), once more it is your right to do so.  I did tell a journalist buddy of mine about all this, however - and I thank you. I don't think I've ever heard him laugh so hard in my life.

    Bottom line, it just seems that the powers that be here prefer to work harder, not smarter.

    Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. - Marie Curie

  • Everitt_CageEveritt_Cage Dublin, GAPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Yep, well aware that it's going to cause some noise, but we're not above hearing it.  My goal as editor is to make sure our reviews objectively rate each of what we consider the core tennants of the MMO.  The 7 categories within Lori's review reflect that.  And they'll be scored in every review from here on out.

     

    I think you missed my question so I ask again, what other games have you scored down recently? And do you plan on making each "re-review" a featured news article like you did with this one?
  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon

    If you really give it some thought and review Cryptic's track record on new content release , would you really like them to test it right after it releases ? May I call your attention to the fiasco,  that was the welcome back weekend. Perhaps you were there ? If you weren't , I'll just say it didn't go well. So, I wouldn't be too quick to criticize, unless you want this game to sinking faster then it already is.  They've already scaled back the content for S-4 , and the ground combat revamp will a minor uptick in the quality of the game.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TarotMage

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Hey all, just stepping in for some updates.

    Firstly, we stand by Lori's score.  It may not be fair to everyone, but reviews are equal parts opinion and objective criticism.  In that much, Lori did very well.

    Secondly, we are indeed instituting a new review process, and it has its share of growing pains.  Namely, in terms of "Re-Reviews" we're also changing our process there.  In short, going forward our Re-Reviews will basically be evaluations based upon the previous review.  We'll still cover the game in the listed categories in this review, and as such our scores are generally going to skew lower than before.  But, we'll try our damnedest next time to both a.) time the review better and b.) make sure we communicate why a score goes down or up.

    Thanks for your patience and feedback.  It's all being heard.

     I have no problem with the score or how you got to it. It is your right to do so. What I don't understand is why this 're-review' was sent out on the eve of new content that addresses ground combat - one of the reviewer's main critcisms. Maybe it's me but I fail to understand why it was such a big deal to get this 're-review' on the site. But hey, if MMORPG.com wants to release a review shortly before a possible improvement is added to the game, only to come back later and review it again (thereby making the previous review a waste of time), once more it is your right to do so.  I did tell a journalist buddy of mine about all this, however - and I thank you. I don't think I've ever heard him laugh so hard in my life.

    Bottom line, it just seems that the powers that be here prefer to work harder, not smarter.

    The review isn't a waste of my time.  I've followed this game for a while and have considered playing but, after LotRO and AoC, IP driven mmos have really failed to deliver for me.  This review will be a good contrast for me when the next review comes around.  I would actually like to see the next re-review by the same person to see how they feel the update has changed their opinion one way or another.

    I realize if you're a fan of a game it's hard to hear that your game isn't scoring high, but your "journalist buddy" anecdote only really illustrates your biased agenda in feeding back your criticism of the review process.  You want your game to get a better score and feel the upcoming content update will deliver that.  Maybe it will, and another review will reflect that if it's true.

    I too would like to see better game reviews within a more well defined framework and maybe we'll see that.  This review certainly seemed to score more reasonably than many I've seen in the past.  I feel that launch reviews, this game included, just scored the games too high.  In all I think this was a decent review and an honest 6.4 score is pretty decent.  I would rather play a game with an honest middling score than try a game with an 8.x score and be very disappointed at the over-hype.

  • J4ck_5p4rr0wJ4ck_5p4rr0w Dublin, GAPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Everitt_Cage

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Yep, well aware that it's going to cause some noise, but we're not above hearing it.  My goal as editor is to make sure our reviews objectively rate each of what we consider the core tennants of the MMO.  The 7 categories within Lori's review reflect that.  And they'll be scored in every review from here on out.

     

    I think you missed my question so I ask again, what other games have you scored down recently? And do you plan on making each "re-review" a featured news article like you did with this one?

     

    I would like to hear the answer to this question as well.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by J4ck_5p4rr0w

    Originally posted by Everitt_Cage

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    Yep, well aware that it's going to cause some noise, but we're not above hearing it.  My goal as editor is to make sure our reviews objectively rate each of what we consider the core tennants of the MMO.  The 7 categories within Lori's review reflect that.  And they'll be scored in every review from here on out.

     

    I think you missed my question so I ask again, what other games have you scored down recently? And do you plan on making each "re-review" a featured news article like you did with this one?

     

    I would like to hear the answer to this question as well.

    Just a quick click on the front page shows the Free Realms re-review and it dropped from an 8.x to a 6.5.  Reviews are subjective.  Just saying, there is a front page re-review and the score was lowered.  I guess that answers the question, even though I'm not Bill Murphy. I just thought I'd throw some independent research out there for you.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Just a quick click on the front page shows the Free Realms re-review and it dropped from an 8.x to a 6.5.  Reviews are subjective.  Just saying, there is a front page re-review and the score was lowered.  I guess that answers the question, even though I'm not Bill Murphy. I just thought I'd throw some independent research out there for you.

    Thanks, Torv.  It's going to happen, like I said, and we'll try to make sure we give ample reason why in the future.  ;)

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Texarkana, TXPosts: 700Member Uncommon

    Jeez there really is no pleasing or explaining to some people.

     

    Why in the world does the first 2nd thrid or any number of previous reviews matter to this reviewer?

     

    A reviewer joins a game, plays it for howecer long they have to get their impressions, and then publish the review in a timely manner. No matter how many others have done it or what they said or what may BE coming down the line. They can (if they are at all honest) give you THEIR opinion of the game at the time they played it.

     

    Thats it, their opinion, at that time. And i for one sure as heck do not want them taking into account anyone elses opinions. Otherwise exactly what the heck is the point? If you want them to base the reviews off of other reviews.. that is just nuts:)

     

    Now , if you have looked at this reviewers past work and do not agree, fine and dandy. But please, stop the nonsense about comparing this with ANY other reviews. Defeats the whole point of having multiple people/reviewers review games, if you expect them to go off of past reviews or even worse, OTHER peoples past reviews.

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