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Wizardry Online = Permadeath+Horror-Setting+Mazes (New details from E3)
Yuui
Member UncommonPosts: 723
http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/06/e3-2011-wizardry-online-to-hit-english.html
So to sum up:
- Main inspirations are Ultima Online, classic Wizardry series and Everquest.
- Game will be difficult a lot more difficult than "present day games".
- While game will have dodging and twitch stuff, some of places will require a good thought-out strategy.
- If you die in a dungeon, you become a ghost and get a chance to recover your body. If you fail, you get perma-dead and loose everything and have to start a new character.
- Game focus is to make monsters actually terrifying and making sure that players HAVE to consider their odds and realize that sometimes its better to run the hell away.
- Parts of Game's sound track will be provided by famous japanese rock band Dir-En-Grey.
- Wizardry Online will reach western shores in next year.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Comments
Let us see now if the posters here who always complain for lack of perma death and difficult MMO put their money where their mouth is. But i am 100% sure this MMO won't be supported and it will be forgottten in a month or so after release.
This is what I've been waiting for
Liked Wizardry 8, so a little interested. Hopefully it will have a ton of races and classes and maybe not a super high level limit since you can perma-die, heh.
Looks like demon souls on the PS3. (Hardest game ever)
Cant wait!
Bring it on !
Well its not just combat hardness.
You literally can get lost in dungeons.
To make it clear - dungeons in Wizardry series have always been like mazes with dead-ends, alternate routes, traps, monsters, etc. You might end up going in circles, you might end up going back because there's a dead end and so on.
A lot of the game was about going through claustrophobic dark hallways and small tunnels, using your brain to figure out where and how you need to go.for example
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Concept sounds good. Will have to see the implementation of combat etc. But the idea is great.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Don't want to stomp on anyones perade but this game will fail here.
The concept of perma death is terrible unless a good player can easily avoid hard situations and run away.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
But I guess more power to those that want it, hopefully none of you brake your computer that play this game. I know I won't because ill probably brake something.
Well it worked quite well for Wizardry. Enough to have a cult following and have total of 8 games, about a dozen of console ports and other things, not to mention set up the basics of what is rpg.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Yeah but this is an MMO so you can not make comparison or expect same kind of success. However this is F2P title so they will make some profit through cash shop.
Same. I'm anxious to play an MMO in Iron Man mode.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Japanese people sure do love Wizardry.
I even have Wizardry comics they did. It's weird that Wizardry is one of the most popular RPG series in Japan, and most people don't think of it that way.
Most JRPGs (Including Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy) owe a HUGE debt to Wizardry... the whole classes thing you see in JRPGs is directly descended from Wizardry.
Not only Japan. The entirety of RPG genre was practically created by Wizardry. Heck, games like Might And Magic are bassically wizardry-clones trying to capture that feel. The game also affected the directions of the games like Ultima(Ultima3 is basically R.Garriot's love letter to Wizardry in certain ways)/
Hell, IMO, Wizardry defined dungeon crawling almost as much as rogue-like games did. I am sure that if one looks into any rpg deep enough they will find things that originate in that franchise.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Haha, yeah Roguelikes and Wizardry are definitely a goodly portion of the roots of CRPGs, it's just...
... most people don't realize that it applies to Japan as well.
It's not 'they're inspired by games inspired by Wizardry', it's specifically JRPGs were based off of Wizardry. It was huge in Japan back in the day. Once you know what to look for, you can see how older JRPGs borrow heavily from Wizardry directly.
(edit: Actually, if you made a family tree, you'd see that's where the split goes between western RPGs and JRPGs... right at Wizardry. After that, things descended from Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy. So RPGs and JRPGs do have common roots, it's just... a long time back.
)
One of the fun facts about Wizardry is that it was an attempt to recreate the multiplayer dungeons that were being played on PLATO in the 70's, but in a single-player design. So we know that in at least one form a Wizardry Online of sorts has existed and worked in the past.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/09/e3-2011-first-look-at-wizardry-online/
the coverage of the same announcement event by Massively.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Looks awesome, definitly looking forward to trying it, perma death is the shit. My only iffyness is the fact that its a eastern company making it, I havent found any asian MMos that I've really enjoyed.
P.S. The point of playing a game is for fun and exictment, not to show off your character to other people or flex an epeen, you die, you get frustrated, and you swear to yourself your gonna do better next time and you load it up and start over again. If your playing for recognition, you should stop playing MMOs.
P.S.S MMOs have long been missing the whole run away feature that has a huge factor in Tabletop games, having permadeath makes this feature needed and exciting.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
This looks interesting. I want to be a-scared again when I play an MMO!
My thoughts exactly.
And I @#$%ing loved Demon Souls.
Can't wait!
.. But in a good way.
I always "cheated" and made backup files for my wizardry games. They were too long a games to have death be permanent and start over.
What scares me here is the PVP aspect. Losing your character to a hard and unlucky fight, or even a chest that turns you into a statue is one thing. Being griefed and losing your character is quite another.
If this turns into -- the hardest monsters on the first floor of the dungeon are the players ready to kill you the second you step out of town then the game will fail. It also is NOT very wizardry. I did not see that kind of deceit portrayed anywhere.
Permadeath would definitely make for very strong guilds because if you wanted to get past any passable level you would need the backup -- plus if you died you would need to get back on your feet and be carried along for a while.
Another thing I would hope is that you could have significant numbers of alternate characters in such a game. If you only get one character slot and you start from the beginning each time it would really stink. I mean if you had several you could at least get a couple of characters up to mid-level so if your main character died it would not be a fallback to nothing.
----
For permadeath I would rather it be more like it was in the real wizardry. You COULD send a rescue party after your old party that died in the dungeon and then try to revive them.
----
If characters are disposable (few of them live more than a few hours each) I wonder if they will go with the old rolling methods where if you were really lucky or sat there rerolling long enough you could end up with some really superpowered stat characters.
Totally agreed.
I am open to a permanent death MMO, but perma-death and free-for-all PvP (read the articles, they have effectively no limitations on PvP) is a total non-starter. That's a griefer's paradise. Join the Mafia guild or die the second you step outside of town; but even if you join the mob, watch your back.
No thanks. Next MMO concept please.
Sorry to burst bubbles (not really) but this is NOT the only MMO to talk about 'perma-death' and they ALL ended up toning down the concept until it was so watered it wasn't even worth mentioning. The reason is simple, it doesn't work. Not in an MMO.
Have you guys even considered for instance, being in a large guild. You're friends, you're family, then suddenly your guild leader dies in a tragic mix of bad decisions and lag. Poof. Head of your guild is now gone, maybe someone wants to step in maybe not. It sounds fun, if it were a book. The hero dies and all the people left behind get to pick up the pieces of move on. But in a persistant world? Not so much.
Also take cultural differences into account. In the East, they're fine with the most extremes of...actually, they're pretty extreme with just about everything from gaming to fetish alike, but that's another subject. In any case! They like uber grind, they like uber death, uber pvp, all that. It's not popular in the West. If a game like Aion is too 'hardcore' for people, do you really think a game like Wizardry will work? I know some of you yearn for the experience, but unless you're fine with playing the game practically by yourself (because that's about what the population will quickly be reduced to) you are going to need a big community and that, if nothing else, is something a game like this will lack. I suggest you guys learn another language and play overseas games. I did! Though for single-player games, not MMOs ;p
Also for those talking about the awesome that is Wizardry, take that 'is' and make it 'was'. Once again, those concepts were popular in an age where that was the only option. As more games got introduced, new playstyles and concepts were created and 'improved upon' (whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant, thus the quotes) and the likelihood of players going backwards is slim to none, no matter how jaded they are with what we have now.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The fact that to this day Permadeath Multiplayers like Diablo are still up and running and have a very loyal hardcore base disproves what you say.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
No, it doesn't. Diablo is not an MMO. It's not a persistant world with constantly updating content. It's a single-player game that people can join and play with or against you in. That's a huge difference from an MMO. Furthermore, Diablo's non-hardcore players FAR outnumber those who are hardcore, and if you actually played Diablo you would know this, so I don't know how you could even use this as an example. Diablo isn't entirely permadeath, only the highest set difficulty players have perma-death and most people don't play at those settings.
Further, most people who do have made use of item duping and hacking to get themselves uber gear and stats. So really, I'm not sure where you were going with that example.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
For those interested, this bit of Massively article is interesting:
To blunt the pain of a permanent character loss, players can stash gear, weapons, and valuables in a "cloak room" that is accessible to their next toons.
basically you can still retain your valuables if you manage your inventory well and do not play around the places for weeks with crowded inventory
Also:
Wizardry allows you to create small parties or groups of up to 100 players to tackle dangerous dungeons.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON