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Death Penalty
rygar218
Member UncommonPosts: 332
So, we got to see the Death Penalty with the the Live Demo game play with Daniel.
Me personally, I think its too light. As you hear from Daniel takling about it how they use it to their advantage in some of their own Flash Points and other harder fights where they are kitting a MoB around to where they can get self ressed right at the spot.
For those of you that don't know the current death system,
Right now it appears that when you do die. You have 2 choices you can either be ported back or self res on the spot thru a probe droid. It doesn't appear to be any draw backs if you take the self res on the spot other than you res with low health and you have a 12 sec invis to move away from the area. Then rest up to full health. From what Daniel said the only draw back is that each time you die the timer is just longer. Which that to me is hardly any draw back at all.
I guess since I'm one for feeling the death from my past experiences with UO, EQ, and other various games. This current death system seems the weakest of all. Even weaker than STO at their start.
Thoughts on this?
Comments
Light death penalty means less incentive to survive. A lot of players prefer it that way. It bores me to tears though.
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personally im fine with it but i also don't care about harsher penatlies.
in regards to this for pvp georg zoeller posted this:
GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Self Rez with Short CD
We will likely put a limit on this ability when you are killed in PvP / by another player, even disallow it completely.
From what i heard on this you got it about right. But they also noted that like you said each time you die it gets longer and can sometimes be up to 10 mins before you can try again. However i find this type of res pretty useless inside of any group encounters because once your out of combat you can simply just rez your groupmates.
If a lighter death penality means tougher mobs and smarter mobs then i'm okay with the lighter death penality. I too came from the EQ era. Granted a tougher death penality does make you fight to the bitter end, but beyond a simple corpse run and grinding (yeah like we like doing that nowadays) it didn't do much. Most raid encounters were simply if you thought you weren't going to win, the cleric would simply camp. Beyond exp loss it didn't affect you. It's probably going to be the same way here. If you can't beat the encounter that timer is just gonna get longer and longer until your team has to wait 10 plus minutes to get back into the fight. If the mobs have the same things our players do that also means tehy will go into self healing.
Now i think what they want to go for is tougher encounters rather then just taking the player out of the action for X amount of hours. However if the game does have allow for players to just zerg the encounter with this action, theres always the suggestion box to let them know that it's making the encounter easier then it should be, and they could remove it for raid encounters or when your in a group.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Depends on how soon that res timer climbs up. 10 minutes is very steep. Most people would prefer a teleport to that I suppose. And in pvp the benefit of ressing on the spot is debatable. Maybe the 12 seconds is enough to get away from a second gank, but often it won't I reckon.
It also allows the killers to play a minigame which I used to play with friends in WOW: "Guess the ress"; before the twelve seconds are over you and your friends predict a spot where the resser will show up again first and put some ingame currency on it, the closest one wins the pot. Rinse and repeat. Fun times.
edit: also repair bills have been mentioned as a money sink if I recall correctly. Not sure how steep they are though.
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Besides it being a Star Wars game, there isn't much to look forward to with this one is there?
Well hopefully they will disallow it completely. I did notice durabillity on armor slots and at different level of durability on it. Certain pieces of armor had 100/100 while others had 80/80 and 70/70. So, probably can't self res completely all the time without having to go back eventually and reparing. I do see your point about past EQ raid experiences with having to camp a cleric out or if you wiped and someone managed to survive is the same thing.
I have recently been asking myself, if this wasn't a Start Wars game, would i actually be keeping an eye on it at all?
I mean everything seems "ok", but nothing has grabbed me yet. Theres still plenty of time, so maybe I'll be pleasently surprised.
Nope. ... apart from exploring a great many large and detailed open worlds and getting rewarded for it, raiding, pvp ranks, having your own spaceship to use as a base of operations, heroic quests, enjoying an interesting crafting system which supposedly allows for a lot of specialization, deep voiced over story lines, interesting classes and subclasses with multiple roles, open world pvp, cool companions who can do a variety of stuff for you, an alignment system with rewards for dark side, light side and neutral walks of life. Spiffy titles. And probably some other stuff too. All in an immersive sci-fi setting without axes and elves.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Make a self-imposed penalty. There is your freedom in an mmorpg.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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dang you left out the multiplayer dialog part..how could you forget that one ;P
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
But aside from all that... the intricate quest lines, advanced class customization and role hybridization, open world PvP, multiple avenues of leveling............. strategic gameplay utilizing no auto attack, the cover and LOS system.. and all that..... not much to look forward to though, I imagine.
Meaningful death penalties are old school, anything harsh and the WoW generation would whine endlessly until it was changed.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Can you paste a link please and tell me at what mark they talk about death.
Thx.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Crap. I knew I forgot something. Might as well mention mounts/vehicles now that we are at it. Wich are supposedly expensive commodities in a variety of flavors. (Not that that is such a novel feature though, but it is still cool to have them, seeing how another upcoming title wont and how that disappointed a lot of people).
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http://live-event.ea.com/e3/chat/star-wars
it was shown here at 33:00 Minutes into the game play. With Daniel
Keep in mind its their current build. Daniel even says it in the video. This isn't final.
http://www.livestream.com/electronicarts/video?clipId=pla_df59967d-dc2e-4e9c-b8b1-5270a342bebc&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb
at about 32mins they start discussing death
edit: bah took me to long to find the spot in the video XD
It sounds an awful lot like Rifts death system. There, you have 2 options as well, self rez and graveyard rez. Only thing is the self rez is has a 60 min CD. I'm thinking bioware will implement a longer time penalty then whats been stated.
Lotro is similar, except a 2 hour CD, and you're aggroable almost before you can move. There's also item damage. And 10 minute Dread.
I kept my eye on tabula rasa, so... yes. Absolutely.
i try not to make posts with just 1 word but in this case i either have to go into long death penalty theories about how bad this system is right now or just say it. i chose the latter this time round:
LAME.
This is one of the rare times I'm not with my fellow supporters on this topic. I agree that my very first instinct after watching the death penalty was that it is too light. I also didn't like hearing how they purposely used death to their advantage. Death should never be an advantage in my eyes. Yes I realize they stack, but him talking about it in an advantageous way really was a turn off. Regarldess, hopefully rhey will tweak it a little based on other feedback. It certaintly isn't something that I'll loose sleep over.
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Thank you.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I'm of the opinion that a strict death penalty,ie, losing xp or the like, is a dinosaur of a feature that should remain dead. I could debate that it made more sense for a game where you had to grind from 1-whatever, but this is going to be a quest based game and that just doesn't fit.
Having said that, being able to res exactly where you die seems that they have removed all punishment for death, and they should do at least the travel time/durability loss that seems popular now. You lose time, but you don't have to do extra grinding to catch back up, and you have to pay some extra in game cash.
I don't think it sounds worse than STO, since if i remeber, in STO if you died you respawn with full health.
I agree. I'm not one for big death penalties are even most medium ones; particularly those that take you our of the game for 10 or so minutes. But death should NEVER make for an advantage.
Death penalties beyond the equivalent of a "slap on the wrist" only serve to diminish fun. Remember that it's a video game. People like to do ridiculous (and sometimes stupid) things that they would never really be able to do. Charge into a group of monsters guns blazing and see what happens. Severe death penalties punish this "video gaming" type behavior. I understand there is a niche for people that believe video game death should mean something, but I also believe that most people don't want to be punished for a video game death.
Games with huge development budgets simply need to appeal to huge audiences. As long as the gameplay is fun, I think anything that takes you away from the gameplay (such as harsh death penalties) should be left out. If the game is not simply about having fun and more about your "accomplishments" versus someone elses "accomplishments", I suppose there would be a place for a more harsh death penalty to "punish" one for their failures.