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Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited: 2011 Re-Review

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Comments

  • DoorKnob22DoorKnob22 Richmond Hill, ONPosts: 19Member

    Great game I'd recommend it to people but it is quite complicated in character customization. 

    ... if you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss will also gaze into you.-Friedrich Nietzsche

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Rokurgepta



    For the reviewer i must say please do not encourage people to build wizard/paladins. While you might feel that it is your time and money, which is fine if you solo, do not start whining when high level groups do not take you because your level split makes you a bad caster, bad fighter and bad character. Even a great player can build a character that is not much use.



     



    You do not have to follow the "munchkin" group, oddly 5+ years of DDo and I never heard them refered that way let alone to the amount you claim they are. Might be a server specific term. But you should never tell people to build horrible characters that do waste that persons time and money.


     

    The  paladin/wizard multi was probably tongue in cheek-at least I hope so-but it does highlight one reason people leave the game and population never gets too high. The higher you level the more snobby and elitist the gamers get and it gets hard to get in a group. Most quests on normal or hard can be easily beat without a min/max group-especially if people know how to play their character, but most groups you see forming on the social panel require vets/TR or all these other unneeded requirements. For example, I saw Waterworks quest at 4th level on hard accepting only TR's, byoh, etc. -Me as wizard and 2 fighterss easily did the whole thing on hard at 4th with no problem.

    The unnecessary elitism turns people off the game because it makes it hard to get in groups and learn how to play better. Also Ive been on plenty of these min/max groups that have been wiped so many times half the group quits because they run through zerging with no strategy, to save 5 or 10 minutes-but end up costing more time or never finishing it-I'm looking at you Vile Apopcraphy quest. If the vets on the game would relax and be more inclusive many of these newer player would become p2p and become good players giving a better community and more income to game so they can make it even better.

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grimfall

    Originally posted by GreenWidow


    Originally posted by Rokurgepta

    For the reviewer i must say please do not encourage people to build wizard/paladins. While you might feel that it is your time and money, which is fine if you solo, do not start whining when high level groups do not take you because your level split makes you a bad caster, bad fighter and bad character. Even a great player can build a character that is not much use.

     

    You do not have to follow the "munchkin" group, oddly 5+ years of DDo and I never heard them refered that way let alone to the amount you claim they are. Might be a server specific term. But you should never tell people to build horrible characters that do waste that persons time and money.

     Have to agree with everything said here.  The best character builds are on the forums.  People have listed exactly what they took and more importantly, if you do a little reading, they explain WHY they made the choices they did.

    With a small time investment of reading and educating yourself on the game you can make a character not only accepted by  groups but also be much happier with the character you play.

    DDO is set using the 3.0 ruleset...partially.  But it is VASTLY different from pen and paper play.  There are reasons for this which only reading and learning the game will help you better understand. 

    Barring that, come to the Orien server and ask for Heliotrope and if I'm online I'll be happy to hop in a dungeon with you and explain as much as you'd like.

    I have to totally disagree with this post.

    The best thing about the game is the character customization... by letting other, lazy and basically stupid players dictate to you how you should create your character makes the game just vanilla crap.

    There are guilds without mindless drones seeking the easiest way to do everything creating characters and parties, but you'll need to find them to enjoy the game to the fullest.

    One does not have to follow the builds found in the forum. In fact, most of the builds suck. There are a few that are extremely powerful that someone, who I guarantee is not an idiot, found by way of research. Its better to follow the builds, because reinventing the wheel is silly, and most of DDO's feats are pure "newb traps" AKA useless.

    A word of caution, one DOES have to make a functional toon. No group wants to carry a worthless lump, and its selfish to expect this. In fact, this is exactly the reason why most experienced players don't PuG at the higher levels. We're fed up with toons that offer nothing to the group.

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon

    To edit my above post, not talking about epic content, or needing a certain lev cleric or rogue, etc-or the high level quests that have secific needs-just the usual, n/h quests that just need full group. People in the game have been very helpful answering questions about building a stronger character, choosing feats or directing to good forum posts about class-but more inclusion of newer players would go a long way to improve their play and game.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member

    Originally posted by ropenice



    Originally posted by Rokurgepta





    For the reviewer i must say please do not encourage people to build wizard/paladins. While you might feel that it is your time and money, which is fine if you solo, do not start whining when high level groups do not take you because your level split makes you a bad caster, bad fighter and bad character. Even a great player can build a character that is not much use.







     







    You do not have to follow the "munchkin" group, oddly 5+ years of DDo and I never heard them refered that way let alone to the amount you claim they are. Might be a server specific term. But you should never tell people to build horrible characters that do waste that persons time and money.






     



    The  paladin/wizard multi was probably tongue in cheek-at least I hope so-but it does highlight one reason people leave the game and population never gets too high. The higher you level the more snobby and elitist the gamers get and it gets hard to get in a group. Most quests on normal or hard can be easily beat without a min/max group-especially if people know how to play their character, but most groups you see forming on the social panel require vets/TR or all these other unneeded requirements. For example, I saw Waterworks quest at 4th level on hard accepting only TR's, byoh, etc. -Me as wizard and 2 fighterss easily did the whole thing on hard at 4th with no problem.



    The unnecessary elitism turns people off the game because it makes it hard to get in groups and learn how to play better. Also Ive been on plenty of these min/max groups that have been wiped so many times half the group quits because they run through zerging with no strategy, to save 5 or 10 minutes-but end up costing more time or never finishing it-I'm looking at you Vile Apopcraphy quest. If the vets on the game would relax and be more inclusive many of these newer player would become p2p and become good players giving a better community and more income to game so they can make it even better.


     

     Most of the people you see booting are what vets call Fake Vets. They put up LFMs stating know the quest or no newbs or some other dumb thing and then when you join them you see why they want someone who knows the quest, because they never bothered to learn the game. Those people give knowledgable players, be they vets or new, a bad name.

     

    They act elite to try and get one elite person in the group who can carry them. DDO in general requires 2 people for most quests on hard and even elite in most cases. The game is not hard, but poor builds will make the game less fun and waste other peoples time.

     

    The reason you see TR only groups is they are trying to avoid death so they do not lose any % of their EXP, problem is so many TRs are people who got carried to level 20 that they add nothing to the TR group. I have seen more people who are TR not know what they are doing then I have run into newer players who do not know. At least the newer player will usually ask a question if they do not know.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member

    Originally posted by ropenice

    To edit my above post, not talking about epic content, or needing a certain lev cleric or rogue, etc-or the high level quests that have secific needs-just the usual, n/h quests that just need full group. People in the game have been very helpful answering questions about building a stronger character, choosing feats or directing to good forum posts about class-but more inclusion of newer players would go a long way to improve their play and game.


     

     A big problem with vets and newer players is game speed. Turbine is horribly slow at adding new content, this has led older players to playing the game at a speed that destroys the fun of new players. These days when i make a new character I rarely even group before level 6 or so because I know I can solo most quests faster then if I get with new players who want to experience it for the first time and they should be able to do so without a player zerging ahead killing everything and ruining the fun of doing it for the first time.

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    If there is a LFM that says "know it" or whatever avoid it. If someone can't do the quest because they think they need a bunch of people who know the quest - you're probably going to fail, imo. Most established players are able to solo the quest. If we bother putting up an LFM it may indeed say BYOH or be self sufficient, because there is no healer in the group. Not because we are trying to be elitist. No vet is going to sit there and wait for a healer on sub-20 content.

    I will say this, DDO is not a game you just run nilly willy in. One has to do a little bit of research. You just can't take any class and/or any feat, level up and be successful. You have to plan your character out in advance.

    I suggest making a cleric or monk as a first toon. Both are very new player friendly, and some vets will take a cleric under his/her wing if they the cleric isn't an idiot.

    And CON is not to be ignored.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    this post is nice it makes me wanna check out the game again. i came back to my other favorite LOTRO although it seems that some of the retarded WoW crowd has infiltrated the game it's evident in general looking for fellowship channel on the nimrodel server, but it's fun for the most part i love skirmishes i can do solo for points without the need for group. I would hope that DDO devs learned from this model at some point (its been a year at least since i played DDO) and made it possible for beginners to do the things that used to take whole groups to complete. It was a fantastic game, i love puzzles and traps and tactics (when i say tactics i dont mean class crowd control or multiple tanks thats boring)

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member

    Golelorn,

    I see your point, but i think what gets lost is that there isn´t a black-n-white situation.  At what point do groups determine someone is ´too gimped´.  I have never played DDO, but i know in games like WOW all it takes is a couple talent points, an enchant, or a few gem slots and a raid or group leader will admonish you for needing to be ´carried´.  What you consider ´functional´someone else might say is too weak.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon

    This game takes the boring aspects of mmo gameplay like combat and repetitive grinding, and combines it with a lobby game like diablo.  It's not really an mmo, it's just lacking good parts of both single player rpgs and mmos.  It's a lobby game, like guild wars 2. 

    It should have been buy to play, it's ridiculous for them to charge money for any aspect of it, and always was, and if you are paying money for it, then I truly pity you.

  • ddomunchkinddomunchkin nothanks, SCPosts: 1Member

    bards can be other then chaotic.mine is true neutral. no one wants to run with a gimp wiz/pally it will be good at nothing.lori was no clue as to what ddo is and what it is not.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    munchkins =3

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    Originally posted by adam_nox



    This game takes the boring aspects of mmo gameplay like combat and repetitive grinding, and combines it with a lobby game like diablo.  It's not really an mmo, it's just lacking good parts of both single player rpgs and mmos.  It's a lobby game, like guild wars 2. 



    It should have been buy to play, it's ridiculous for them to charge money for any aspect of it, and always was, and if you are paying money for it, then I truly pity you.


     

    and lol did you just call Guild Wars 2 is a lobby game......when will people learn......

     

    hopefully you got excited and typo the '2' :)

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • nyxiumnyxium ManchesterPosts: 1,220Member Uncommon

    I do like DDO for popping in and playing the odd mission or two, and it's developing some complexity at long last with the crafting system. Not addictive like other games, but that suits me just fine for the occassional dungeon bash.

    image
  • svzurichsvzurich Las Vegas, NVPosts: 21Member

    Originally posted by crunk001

    Too bad that like 40% of the Gamers who actually tried to get into this game, never made it because of the nasty Vista/Win7 Blackscreen-Bug of Doom.

     

    ME INCLUDED. /frustated

    I just yesterday solved that.  I have to disable my High Definition Audio Device and reboot to get DDO to actually log into a server.  If I plug my USB headset in first, the blackscreen hang returns.  If I plug it in after getting into the game, the game won't see it to use it, but continues to play just fine (without sound).  Annoying.  Turbine is aware.

    Update: Turbine replied again telling me to uninstall "OpenAL" or "Host ADI (OpenAL)" because the game uses a modified version from Creative.  After I did so, the game works perfectly and has sound.  

  • brabruskibrabruski JohannesburgPosts: 1Member

    I think the biggest problem of DDO is the same everywhere, if you don't have that specific build or gear a PuG leader is expecting then you will not have much fun. Most of the Vet players, like myself, have moved beyond that and mostly pride ourselves on getting any group through any instance on any difficulty.

    At the end of the day, you have to be having fun to be able to invest so much time into DDO and that is where the guilds come in as they do everywhere else. A group of like-minded individuals who can chitchat while doing whatever it is they feel needs to be done.

     

    After 5 years I am still engrossed in the game and no other game has ever held me hostage like DDO but the people are what make it.

    So please go wild with the imagination when building characters and having your fun but remember that if you ever do break the mould then you will most likely be getting declined from those PuG's who aren't confident or who are just plain ignorant.

    Expecting it now and then means it's not such a slap in the face when some idiot decides they know best and you don't. Most of the time I have found people to be genuinely interested in the idea behind a wierd build and some of those wierd builds have become commonplace. A melee Sorc, a battle cleric etc etc. It's generally the more newer players that refuse you admittance whereas I would welcome a strange build in to see how it plays.

    Granted that most of my time now is spent sorting out guildies needs or doing a True Reincarnation or looking for that one item on a character, but if it wasn't for the people and the awesome active combat (ignoring that it's DnD'ish) I probably would never have stayed so long. I think the biggest part of the appeal is that it's all about your character and how well you play it and gel with it than the gear you have. Certainly some gear makes or breaks certain builds and gear is always a telling part of how effective you are, but nothing makes up for player skill which for me is better than clicking and watching a game. The entire time I'm running an instance I am busy and active and I love that the most.

     

    Rasczak ~ Thelanis

  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLPosts: 2,102Member

    Seems like a fair revview!

     

    The word munchkin is really old and comes from the pen and paper version of D&D, havent seen is used much in ddo though.

    There is even a hillariouse tabletop/card game called muchkin which makes fun of all the rpg cliches and sterotypes.

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • SmokeysongSmokeysong Lewisville, TXPosts: 236Member

    [quote]The predictable, but unfortunate, high volume of players who consider the F2P version a throw-away MMO, who care absolutely nothing about being a decent player or a pleasant group member.[/quote]

    Exactly what I and many others have been saying about including F2P players on P2P servers all along. Bad idea, and very much serves to polarize players and create conflict betweeen them. The conflict isn't PvP conflict, it's real, and players feel dislike for the other person, not their toon in a roleplaying sense. That doesn't help anyone.

    I don't generally go around accusing companies of putting alimighty profit over everything else, but putting F2P players on P2P servers smacks of at least ill-conceived planning, if not lack of caring about the players and the effect the situation has on them and society at large. these companies are at very least holding up their middle finger in gesture to the players paying a monthly fee that don't want those kind of players on their server.

    Thanks, Turbine, that really makes me want to sign up for a game you offer again. Not.

    Buying fluff toys with real money isn't a big deal, if it's kept to a minimum. Buying useful items, Classes, Races, unlocking dungeons by going to a store and paying extra money, that all smacks of paying your way to the top rather than earning it, and that puts the game on my "not worth playing" list even without the F2P issue. Maybe this is just an alternate way of doing expansions rather than offering them in a pack on an occasional basis, but even if that's the case I bet it's a far more expensive option. All hidden of course behind giving out "play money" that can be purchased directly with real cash.

    Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall

  • gekkothegreygekkothegrey soddy daisy, TNPosts: 236Member

    Though I am not playing this now DDO is by far my fav Free to Play, I even like it better then lotro as I think DDO has better community. This really is a great free to play.

  • WarlaormWarlaorm Kelso, WAPosts: 22Member

    I liked the review, was well written and I agree with most of what was stated. On the subject of the community though I have to disagree. The community does have it's min maxers. As a whole though I'd have to say that those min maxers are just a big a gift as a curse. Take World of Warcraft, try to ask a serious question in trade or general chat and get a logical response........won't happen. The advice channel (on the server I played on anyways) would almost always get sound advice.......That might not seem like a HUGE deal, but for new players comeing into a game with such a steep learning curve, those min maxers can sure help. Over all I think the community is good, sure they have some rude people but nothing compared to games like WoW. The reviewer is correct though, play what you like. If you've never played D&D or D&D Online though, a cookie cuttuer spec/build might be a good idea until you have a better understanding of the game and what is or isnt' needed.

  • RokurgeptaRokurgepta wallington, NJPosts: 2,136Member

    Originally posted by Warlaorm

    I liked the review, was well written and I agree with most of what was stated. On the subject of the community though I have to disagree. The community does have it's min maxers. As a whole though I'd have to say that those min maxers are just a big a gift as a curse. Take World of Warcraft, try to ask a serious question in trade or general chat and get a logical response........won't happen. The advice channel (on the server I played on anyways) would almost always get sound advice.......That might not seem like a HUGE deal, but for new players comeing into a game with such a steep learning curve, those min maxers can sure help. Over all I think the community is good, sure they have some rude people but nothing compared to games like WoW. The reviewer is correct though, play what you like. If you've never played D&D or D&D Online though, a cookie cuttuer spec/build might be a good idea until you have a better understanding of the game and what is or isnt' needed.


     

     It is a good idea to learn a bit beforehand. I could see a new player making a cleric and investing heavily in the heal skill(makes sense that heal would be good) only to find out that it is a complete waste of skill points. Some feats are a waste and should be avoided. Some people like to learn on their own(some of us had no choice there) but not everyone does.

  • mauserk43mauserk43 Salem, MAPosts: 6Member

    I have a Rogue/Wizard build. I have had a few times people saying I cant do the traps on elite but what they dont know is that I pump my rogue skills every level and use the action points to increase my rogue enhancements., I use Wizard to self-buff and to add substantial DPS to the party in the from of firewalls, etc. and Ddoors

  • sdrockysdrocky Central CoastPosts: 3Member

    Dungeons and Dragons (all versions) has is and always be a thinking man's game. Having played DnD for 30 + years on pen and paper as DM i can say that playing ddo is the most fun ive had in years. The choices in character selection and skill sets enables a player to create a toon that fist perfectly with the way that they want to play the game.

    As for feeling like a solo game, did you look at the groups looking for players list? Did you try and form a group from within the game. Everytime i have setup a group looking for players its filled within about 10mins. Yes you get zurgers, you get that in every game. Yes you may not enjoy using PUG's. if this is the case join a guld and quest with guildies.

    DDO gets 20 out of 10 from me. Get on and have a look. the combat is wicked. The graphics are awsome and the challenges never stop.

  • RadditRaddit Winter Park, FLPosts: 2Member

    I have played many MMO's and I have to say if you like complex mechanics and a steep learning curve this is the game for you.  Many games are so dumbed down that they get boring really quickly.  I liked this game very much and I did do the pay to play route after just a few days of play.  I used "liked" in the past tense because despite liking the game the customer service or lack of same was a deal breaker for me.  The marketing of the game is a little anti social in as much as it will ask you for you credit card info before you know what it is you are actually buying but I got over that little bump.  The killer was when I put in a in game ticket.  Looking back it was laughable because the lack of concern was so obvious.  So as I always do in my life I voted with my feet or should I say with the delete.  Nuff said.  On to other games. 

    PS  I wish reviews would include the customer service part of the game.  Nothing like spending hours in a game to find if you have an issue you are just not important.  It is a cultural thing within a company.  Best if you know in advance.



     

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