It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Originally posted by Gajari "Ohhh SOE brought down my precious PSN for a couple weeks to best resolve the issues, rebuild the network and implement enhanced security features so something like this will never happen again! WHAAAAAAA! Terrible company!! Can't be trusted! What's that? They're only giving us a free month of PSN Plus and some downloadable content for free? SHIFTY ASSHOLES!! 1 billion bones bitches! PAY UP!"
You forgot to mention the part about not encrypting your information and losing millions of people's personal data to theft - which can result in several different scenarios, from obnoxious behavioral marketing, to increased malware/viruses/spyware, to outright identity theft.
Originally posted by grukmuck Originally posted by waynejr2 EULA doesn't trump the law. So even if it is in the EULA but violates law they can be in trouble.
...So yes, in this case because as a consumer using the product and you "accepted" it, it does trump law. As it is a binding contract BY law.
The contract can only bind to the extend determined by the law. Normally when the law saying that contracts do bind and any other law collide, the other law is followed and the contract ignored. Only when it's specifically stated in legislation that parties may agree otherwise a contract can trump the law, and even then if the agreement is found to be unfair or unbalanced it may be nulled or changed and the law enforced instead.
EDIT: My info is about my country's legal system, I'm not sure if it's similarly in America/EDIT
One can only hope that all suits will go out empty, not cause i like sony so much but because this will set the standard.
If the standard becomes if anybody gets knowledge of a database breach in your system you can be sued back to the stoneage noone will tell you if they had a breach.
Bank lost its whole database? Well, they will never tell you once this gets through.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Originally posted by Raizeen I speak for everyone when i say lets pray for SOE to die.
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯Played:SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
Originally posted by lthompson94 Originally posted by Spentzar Do they mean a billion as in 1,000,000,000? (one thousand millions) or as in 1,000,000,000,000 (one million millions) because if it's the latter they might as well just go f*** themselves because they will not see that kind of money out of Sony. Overall the case will probably be dismissed or the price heavily reduced because that is not the "cost of credit monitoring service and fraud insurance coverage for two years." Not by a long shit. It's like the lawyers in that law firm literally pulled out their shlongs and smacked it against a calculator a few times and decided on the biggest arbitrary number the calculator could handle. It must have been an expensive scientific one because a regular calculator only goes up to like 9 digits.
LOL - What are you talking about? A billion is a billion dude, there's only one. And I'm sure it was a good calculator.
Some countries use the short scales to messure billions, others use long scales. They are different values just like Spentzar pointed out. In Canada its especially confusing because the English speaking contingent uses short scales while the French speaking contingent use long scales.
Its a big world out there, I suggest you do a little research before essentially telling someone yours is the only perspective that could possibly correct.
More about short and long scales HERE
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Initial lawsuits get attorney's names in the paper. It's a publicity stunt more than anything else. Others will sue for a LOT ore once the actual damage is tallied up. Right now while a very bad thing happened, no one knows what the final body count will be.
Originally posted by Vrika Originally posted by bansan
I can't speak for American legal system, but for Finlands legal system:
You can't sue for potential damage, but you can sue for the costs caused by making sure there isn't damage and costs required to limit the damage. Eg. if someone tries to infect you with a disease and you need to visit a doctor and take some medicine, the doctor's bill and medicine costs are damage caused to you even if you won't end up sick. Similarly if the judge finds that people need to take ID theft protection to limit the damage of their data being stolen, the cost of ID theft protection would be damage caused to those people who took the protection.
That's reasonable. It is probable that the US precedents will bear the same, but I wasn't sure. It is one of those things that may be more subjected to judge interpretation.
In your example, the person intentionally tried to infect someone, so they are criminally responsible, which in the US makes it much more likely for civil suits to be successful. In this case, I don't think we can say that Sony intended to get hacked, so it is more of a gray area.
Originally posted by Reizla Canadian Natasha Maksimovic thinks Sony owes C$1 billion in damages to PSN users. But those aren't US dollars, they're Canadian ones. The second suit was announced on Monday by the Toronto law firm of McPhadden Samac Tuovi LLP, with Sony ...
Not sure if anyone mentioned this or not as I've read the first page and didn't think it worth reading all 6 pages, but a little factoid for all who have their heads in the sand and think everything is peachy fine with good ol'USA and yes, its still within context of this thread. I bolded and marked in red text what I'm referring to.
As of right now, this very second as I type this, $1.00 Canadian is worth $1.05 US. For those who can't see the immediate implication, the Canadian dollar is WORTH MORE than the US Dollar by a margin of 5%. In 1991 at approximately the same day of the year, a US Dollar was worth 1.15 Canadian. To put that into more meaningful context
Today 100,00 CAN = 104,987 US
1991 100,000 US = 115,000 CAN
A total differance of 19,987, or put another way, a swing of nearly 20% which IS a big deal.
So what that lawsuit ammounts to is a class action amount equal to 50 million MORE, so lets not disparage our Canadian neighbors to the North, they're running their country far more effectively than we are.
Now in context to this lawsuit. Did you for one moment think something like this wouldn't happen as a result of the hack? Its the reason why Corps spend as much money on internet security. No corperation gives a fig about your feelings or thinks you're a special little snowflake to be regarded with awe and reverance. You're just a set value number to them, and their small army of accountants tell them that they get to keep more $$$ if they spend $$$ on security. The price of complacency for a corperation Sony's size is litigaton on this scale when the opportunity presents itself, and honestly, they're getting off lighter than I expected. Punitive damage fees are typically scaled towards the ability to pay more than the worth of the damage itself, Sony is a multi-billion dollar corperation that won the DVD format war, this action and others to follow will sting, no doubt, and sting enough to put several heads on the chopping block, but it will not destroy the corperation or cripple them.
And just a final note. I am a American Vet and love my country dearly, but the above ignorance and presumptious arrogance about relative currency values and placement within the world scale of economy irritates me to no end. Edited to be less abrasive than the first run. My apologies.
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
Originally posted by Tardcore Originally posted by lthompson94 Originally posted by Spentzar Do they mean a billion as in 1,000,000,000? (one thousand millions) or as in 1,000,000,000,000 (one million millions) because if it's the latter they might as well just go f*** themselves because they will not see that kind of money out of Sony. Overall the case will probably be dismissed or the price heavily reduced because that is not the "cost of credit monitoring service and fraud insurance coverage for two years." Not by a long shit. It's like the lawyers in that law firm literally pulled out their shlongs and smacked it against a calculator a few times and decided on the biggest arbitrary number the calculator could handle. It must have been an expensive scientific one because a regular calculator only goes up to like 9 digits.
I do not hope this is the start of the demise of SOE. I like many am not a fan of theirs, however even with the recent layoffs, they do employ a great deal of people and I would hate for them all to lose their jobs. Compensation for theft monitoring I think is fair but only for those who join the lawsuit. Progressive Insurance was hit with a lawsuit for overpayment about 5 years ago. The plaintiffs won, but only those who sent back the papers prior to the judge's ruling were able to collect. I believe a similar fate is fair for Sony. That sum of 1 billion is just ridiculous.
Maybe im not understanding but isnt the PSN and SOE under two different companies withing the same Sony umbrella? the suit seems to be aimed at all the people affected by the psn hacking not SOE. I know i atleast got two seperate emails from when each one got compromised even though the one for the psn was an entire week after the servers went down. So does anyone know how many and what all was affected by the SOE hacking or was I misinformed and they were actually the same thing?
I think the latest email stated there is a lot of overlap between the systems.
Originally posted by Redemp
"All of the data was protected, and access was restricted both physically and through the perimeter and security of the network. The entire credit card table was encrypted and we have no evidence that credit card data was taken. The personal data table, which is a separate data set, was not encrypted, but was, of course, behind a very sophisticated security system that was breached in a malicious attack," Sony says it in its FAQ." So our CC info is encrypted, the personal data was not. They do elude to the system safeguarding the personal data as being very sophisticated, which basicly spells out that they didn't think it would be breached as it was. So get off your high horses .. Hindsight is 20/20 and I promise that if the personal data had been encrypted the majority of you would be claiming their systems weren't adequate enough or some other nonsense. Now ... Feel free to continue panicing and ranting in these threads. Remember ... its cool to hate SoE.
Oh nothing got taken.
Oh we see yes but you CC is save
Oh yes that is taken as well, but really they do not have you security number.
This is how it when with the PSN and peoples CC ended up being used. Sorry for not having a lot of faith in Sony right now.
It's just a class action lawsuit. Doesn't mean they will win and recieve 1 billion dollars. Plus that's an unrealistic amount claimed. Even if they did win the class action, the amount rewarded will be a small fraction of the claim (to be decided by the judge).
Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin I do not hope this is the start of the demise of SOE. I like many am not a fan of theirs, however even with the recent layoffs, they do employ a great deal of people and I would hate for them all to lose their jobs. Compensation for theft monitoring I think is fair but only for those who join the lawsuit. Progressive Insurance was hit with a lawsuit for overpayment about 5 years ago. The plaintiffs won, but only those who sent back the papers prior to the judge's ruling were able to collect. I believe a similar fate is fair for Sony. That sum of 1 billion is just ridiculous.
SOE is sadly already on it's demise and is no longer that big as people think.
They laid off a lot of people 2 years ago and another 205 people this year, with closing of three entire studios.
i wish sony crashes and burns. Always loved their products but hated them for their practises. Now they managed to piss me off once again. i am without a credit card for 10 days and its their fault... well done sony well done
Originally posted by Kaelano1 SOE is a victim here. You must believe they did, in all good faith, attempt to protect said information. You must understand if an insightful individual wanted to work that, it's possible. It's why we have police and insurance.
Im sorry but a company that keeps 4 year old CC data is not a "victim" of anything. It shows gross negligence and should be punished big time.
Players have asked for the option to delete their CC information when they want for years in the gaming industy. Sadly this is ingored and we have seen all sorts of issues - including ppl beeing billed years after they quit subbing for a game. Or billed multiple time.
The famous qoute " this is just a game" gets thrown out alot. What we have to realise that the ppl making those games are actually really vulnarable to idendity thefts and cyberattacks. Cause lets face it - many of the ignore the security aspect - or simply are as bad as coding the security as they are coding their games :S.
The standard for games needs to be raised. Specially in the online word. We saw the same issue with RIFT. This will hopefully get companies on their toes in increasing their overall quality of their titles.
I should point out also that this person is from Mississauga, a suburb from the Toronto area. What this says to me is it's a 50% chance that this person is a "new Canadian", which is our polite way of saying 'immigrant'. (Yes, we really are that polite sometimes, lol) Quite often the "new Canadians" don't really understand how things work and some think they can scam people and get rich here.
Likely someone just out to try and make a quick buck.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
amount makes no sense plus SoE has already said they will provide funding for anti identify theft on a local level to anyone who may have been comprimised resulting in possible identify theft.
1billion? heh..ok I wouldn't be surpised if he lost a lot of money taking that to court eve if it that.
Seriously, how much does it cost to recovery from identity theft? Can't be more more than 100,000.
I haven't dealt with SOE in years and now I'm still being shafted by those negligent jerks.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Originally posted by Kaelano1 Here's the thing, and the same reason I am NOT MAD with soe... im not mad with sony nor the hackers for the same reason you give here... Rules are made to be broken. Security is made to be breached. IF someone couldn't challenge "measures", all invested resource would be frivolous. if this is true, then why ppl blame the guy who first hacked the PS3, and now they blame the new hackers who got soe hangin by the ballzzz with this DDoS attack.... if my info was stolen then the fault falls on soe cos they didnt secure personal data enough and started attacking hackers in retailation for the PS3 root breaching.... SOE is a victim here. you are contradicting yourself here....
if ur personal info is intact, feel free to sympathize with sony.... if it was stolen, join the sony boycott LOL
Originally posted by Duster505 Originally posted by Kaelano1 SOE is a victim here. You must believe they did, in all good faith, attempt to protect said information. You must understand if an insightful individual wanted to work that, it's possible. It's why we have police and insurance.
What you state here, "a company", is key. Sony Online Entertainmnt and PSN themselves are not a game, they are companies selling a product, and they are hanging onto CC and personal information yaers after it is used to pay for a given month's subscription fee.
The products they sell are games, and it looks like a lot of folks on either side of this discussion are losing sight of that fact.
Does Wal-mart still have the credit or debit card number you used on a purchase in 2007?
And what kind of consequences would they face if they lost that information to another party?
Alot of talk and hate here for SOE on this matter, and yes they could have probablydone more. No doubt.
Wheres the hate for the actual criminals involved? Y'know, the ones that actually stole the information.
Seems to me moral compasses are getting really screwed up in the internet age tbh. Maybe, just maybe, a general case of misdirected rage?