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Phasing, why the hate?

DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member

    For me a big issue with phasing is the seperation from other players. I can be in the same geographic location as my best friend, but since I'm three steps ahead of him in a quest line I can't see him or help him. It's very limiting in terms of grouping with the people you want to group with.

    For world PvP it also becomes an issue when chasing a player through a zone. If you get the upper hand and he runs into a zone where his phase differs from yorus, you all of a sudden lose your PvP encounter.

    Phasing is great at what it does creating the illusion that you're affecting the world with your actions, which was sorely lacking in MMOs, but the consequence is that now you're sacrificing the social aspects that you play MMOs for in the first place.

  • KothosesKothoses GalwayPosts: 760Member Uncommon

    Phasing is even worse than instancing for seperating a player base.  The model Guildwars and Cryptic use of social hubs and instances atleast allowes players a way to group together for the PvE quest content even if they them selves are not on that quest.  (Note pre and post searing are the exception).  The Phasing doesnt just seperate you in instances but also in the outdoor world.

     

    If used sparingly for NPCs it can be great, but when its used for whole zones all it does is dillute the playerbase even more than the Cryptic/Guild wars Method.

     

    To be honest the leveling experience in wow leaves me at this stage wondering "why is this an mmo?"

     

    SW:TOR has a much huger influence of story as will GW 2 and neither of them need phasing to seperate and segregate players it does not give the illusion of affecting the world because in an mmo the quest/plot is one everyone has done, the MMO part comes from being able to explore that world and story and setting and content with friends.  Phasing prevents you from doing this in the vast majority of circumstances.

     

    World affecting changes come from the sandbox genre of games where player run cities and zones and economies can become a reality and they are fantastic, In a sandbox game.

     

    Thus a Phased game is not a true MMO but simply a game with a chat room that they charge £9 a month for.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    Phasing is about the exact opposite to "living, breathing, evolving" because the player next to you doesn't see the world like you do. It's not the world that is changing, instead they are showing you a different version of the world.

    Player A: Nice weather, nice tavern over there, good barkeep.

    Player B: What do you talk about, it's winter, the barkeep is dead and your nice tavern is burning down.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Originally posted by rygard49

    For me a big issue with phasing is the seperation from other players. I can be in the same geographic location as my best friend, but since I'm three steps ahead of him in a quest line I can't see him or help him. It's very limiting in terms of grouping with the people you want to group with.

    For world PvP it also becomes an issue when chasing a player through a zone. If you get the upper hand and he runs into a zone where his phase differs from yorus, you all of a sudden lose your PvP encounter.

    Phasing is great at what it does creating the illusion that you're affecting the world with your actions, which was sorely lacking in MMOs, but the consequence is that now you're sacrificing the social aspects that you play MMOs for in the first place.

    Of course, there's no reason that they can't implement a "Your party leader sees the area at a different stage of progress than you do. Would you like to align to their phase?" or something more lore-ish sounding.

    For your pvp scenario, the same could possibly be forced (no decision) or simply, as some games do when you run too far. The victory goes to the chaser. Good point though, this is where the biggest problem would be.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Originally posted by Larsa

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    Phasing is about the exact opposite to "living, breathing, evolving" because the player next to you doesn't see the world like you do. It's not the world that is changing, instead they are showing you a different version of the world.

    Player A: Nice weather, nice tavern over there, good barkeep.

    Player B: What do you talk about, it's winter, the barkeep is dead and your nice tavern is burning down.

    All I meant is that it does better towards the image of a changing world rather than, for instance, an army that I've obliterated through a series of quests still running around and if I fly <over yonder>, I can kill their named bosses which I've already done. Phasing may just be a false illusion, but it's something.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon

    Phasing is like instancing and cut scenes a great tool for the devs to add to the story if they use it right, However if you use too much it turns the game into a ghost town just like cut scenes easily turns into a snoorefeast if they overuse it (*cough* Dragon age *cough*).

    The problem here is that certain devs who get a new flashy technology uses it in every possible situation and that sucks, MMOs should feel massive. That is the reason for the hate, few people complain about a few well used instances or phasing but it is rarely just that.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    I think phasing could be a very useful tool, and you could base a very immersive, whole MMORPG around it, if the phasing doesn't include other players.

    If all the players can still see each other, there's a lot of interesting scenarios you can do if you come up with an IC reason why people are seeing completely different things. :)

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Phasing was done pretty well in WoW's Wrath of the Lich King.  There was a moderate amount of it, and I felt that it added to the overall story of the game.  However, it was massively overdone in Cataclysm, to the point I could barely level to 85.  It just seperates everyone, moreso the instancing.  It was just awful in Cataclysm because it seperated everyone by what part of the quest line they were on.  I played on a very populated PvP server and I hardly saw anyone while leveling up, simply because of phasing.  All my Alliance "enemies" were in different phases of whatever silly quest.  At least with instancing, you can get a group together, regardless of what quests people have, and have at it.  With phasing, everyone needs to be on the same quest/storyline, or they will be in a different world. 

     

    This applies to WoW mainly, as I really don't know of too many other games that do this.  Most just settle for open world or instancing of some sort because those concepts work well.  With WoW's phasing, it's like playing a single player game built into an MMO. 

    image

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member

    Thanks guys!

    The thing phasing addresses for me is most mmo's--when the npc's address you, they address everyone the same at x point in your progression. They'll tell you YOU are the savior of the world, but someone else at that point in progression will also be told (speaking to them) YOU are the savior of the world. Aside from it being an MMO, most games address you in the sincle player perspective. Sometimes using %n~ to address you by name.

    Gathering areas, the main cities, should almost never be phased, really, but combat and enemy areas? Sure, it makes sense.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    Either A.) Players can permanently change the real game world, which means that only one party can ever kill the Dread Emperor and raze his castle, or B.) players cannot permanently change the real game world, so that the castle is always standing and the Dread Emperor is always on his throne, or C.) there is no "real" game world, and each player sees the version of the world that they have shaped by their actions. I don't think any of these are strictly better or worse than any others; I appreciate the fact that different games can work in different ways.

    I also think it would be cool if someone wove phasing into the game's narrative, as Meowhead suggested. You could go with a story where you begin to learn the truth about the world, and begin to see it "as it really is" while the people around you still have the wool pulled over their eyes. Or go the total opposite route as your character decends into madness and can no longer perceive reality normally.

    image
  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    I loved phasing in World of Warcraft.  Complaints about it segregating the playerbase are certainly valid, but then again, overland questing in WoW has always been a solo experience, so the added instance of phasing simply gives the tired old solo quest mechanic and interesting dynamic. Outside of it being a minor annoyance when you can't meet up with your budy in a certain area, it doesn't really disrupt any gameplay in any other way.

    The only issue I ever really had was in that underwater zone in Cataclysm where you had to complete no small number of quests before the mender in the zone actually became visable for you.

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    I love phasing for the most part. I didnt like going to icc and if u hadnt done the quests and another of your raid group did u couldnt see each other outside of icc raid to summon. U had to either go to the dungeons summon stone or hope a lock had shown up to summon.

    I loved how it was used for tharazane rep and sons of hodir and shadow gate and opening that up. As well as with the argetn vangaurd and other ares.

    Truth is having a freind be 3 steps behind in most phased areas in wow they arent gonna even need yoru help. No offense most of those questlines are easy and solo able without hurting anything.

    What i llike is using phasing in lowbie zones so that when im leveling on a pvp server and im a level 30 say in stranglethorn i wont have to worry bout some 85 coming and killing me and camping me so i have to quit playing.

    Personally i think wow should have a penatly system for that or make u unable to target plyaers 50 levels below u.

    People whine about phasing and world pvp being dead but from my experiance in wow at least world pvp consists of some jerk max level ganking me camping me and when my guildies show up runnign like a scared dog and avoding fighting peope his own level only to come back 30 mins later to start all over again.

    Plus i u are 3 or more rings of a quest chain higher then your freind u werent playign with them in the first place so why do u care if u cant see them. I could undestand if u played together and phaisng put u in diffrent places but as long as u quest together all the way as me and gf do its never an issue.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,734Member Uncommon

    Phasing is fantastic for crafting superb solo quest experiences. Really the only problem to solve is linking up two friends who want to do world content together.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

    I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • MajinashMajinash st louis, MOPosts: 1,320Member

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Couldn't agree more.  All these things are examples of players having a real impact on the world (most seem to be taken from Lineage2?) and none of them involve phasing.

     

    When a game has phasing, I feel like i've made zero impact on the world, because only I see the change, until someone else does the same thing I did and then they see it, how is that making an impact or changing the world?  thats following a story line.

    So yeah, I'll take a real impact on the game world, over a forced linear story.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    cataclysm went nuts with it. i hated it. my old guild leveled together for quest and it made it a nightmare for some of us. dudes were standing next to you and my GM was yelling for me to get with the program and get back to him. I told him dude i'm right next to you! he said oh well your gonna have to ride the sub again bro we are done in this watery shit hole time to head to next zone.

    It isolates people and it's a cheap way to try and make you feel like your special. Ditch it before game devs start thinking it awesome and saves on heavy traffic areas for lag. cheap crap bra

    image

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    I hate phasing and this is why.  It separates the player base.   Lotro tried phasing when it went free to play, you could ride 10 foot and swap between 3 different zones. I'm not sure they ever got that worked out.

    In eq2 we had phasing for years.  Some zones has a max of 100 players. Others has a max of 50 players.  The problem is public quests in EQ2,  You need 2 to 3 raids to do storm gorge. The problem is 2 raids fills a zone then you get folks who get an invite and swap over, and wind up with 4/24 man raids in a zone meant for 50 folks, the lag is horrible.

    I wish they could come up with something better.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

    I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

    Um, every single one of those things actually happened in Lineage 2 (as another poster knew).

    Elikal, there is/was actually a game out there where not only was all this possible but all this ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN!.

    Lineage 2 is the only game I've ever played where the world was actually "a world".

    I say "is/was" because they have changed the game a bit now so I don't know what happens in it as of this thread.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,734Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Elikal


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

    I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

    Um, every single one of those things actually happened in Lineage 2 (as another poster knew).

    Elikal, there is/was actually a game out there where not only was all this possible but all this ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN!.

    Lineage 2 is the only game I've ever played where the world was actually "a world".

    I say "is/was" because they have changed the game a bit now so I don't know what happens in it as of this thread.

    If you read his post, he doesn't say "This can't happen without phasing" but rather "This can happen with phasing."

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Elikal


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

    I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

    Um, every single one of those things actually happened in Lineage 2 (as another poster knew).

    Elikal, there is/was actually a game out there where not only was all this possible but all this ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN!.

    Lineage 2 is the only game I've ever played where the world was actually "a world".

    I say "is/was" because they have changed the game a bit now so I don't know what happens in it as of this thread.

    Ok, so down to the legwork:

    a) A guild taken over a hunting area HOW? Kill stealing? Ganking? It's certainly NOT something I want to see in a MMO happeneing, phasing or not. After the third time experiencing that I damn cancel my account!

    b) TAXES? Wtf? I pay taxes in RL already, thank you very much. Same as a) nothing I wanna see in a MMO. Enough bullies out there already. So again: don't want to see that phasing or not, so the point has no validity for me.

    c) sigh, player killing yeah... what the MMO world needs >.<

    d) CORNER THE MARKET... what the heck sort of MMO are you talking about? AlCapone Online?? I mean, really?

    e) Porting costs are against phasing how? I just don't see how that is against it. And just for the record, with my WOW mage I NEVER took money even if people offered it, because I would find that ridiculous.

    It all sounds a lot like player killing and griefing each other and I don't like power games in RL and I MOST CERTAINLY NOT want e-thugs and e-bullies in the GAMES of my spare time where I want to ESCAPE from such grim things! Taxing, PKing... taking over areas... good riddance! Who are you, the Sherrif of Nottingham?

    So you really didn't make much of a point for me here. I mean, each to his, really. But I dare say that this sort of griefing game system is a bit something for an eccentric minority? Just saying.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Elikal


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

    ok well...

    your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

    or...

    your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

    or...

    you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

    or...

    you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

    or...

    There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

    or we can use phasing. either way.

    Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

    I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

    Um, every single one of those things actually happened in Lineage 2 (as another poster knew).

    Elikal, there is/was actually a game out there where not only was all this possible but all this ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN!.

    Lineage 2 is the only game I've ever played where the world was actually "a world".

    I say "is/was" because they have changed the game a bit now so I don't know what happens in it as of this thread.

    If you read his post, he doesn't say "This can't happen without phasing" but rather "This can happen with phasing."

    Thanks. Indeed. None of the points seemed to outrule phasing.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    A game based on phasing sounds lovely indeed. A Soul Reaver MMO came to mind first.
  • MajinashMajinash st louis, MOPosts: 1,320Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Thanks. Indeed. None of the points seemed to outrule phasing.

    Points 1, 3, 4 and 5 can be removed with phasing.  People can't take over a hunting spot if others are in a different phase.  It's pretty impossible to go back to noob phases and help lowbies who are just starting the game.  Abusing phases to play the market is possible too (See Uldum and emberweave farming).

     

    You seem like a pure themepark PvE person.  You stated very clearly that you don't take well to any kind of real PvP, in the field or even in the market.  That's fine, but not everyone shares your views.  Lineage is based on mass PvP and is the best selling MMO series in the Korean market.  EVE is based on freedom, with tons of true PvP, it has taxes and a true economy and has been growing for a longer period of time than any MMO... ever.

     

    People dislike Phasing because it turns a game "world" into a story.  I play single player games for a good story because no MMO will ever be as good at it as games like Bioshock or KoToR.  I play MMOs for the Persistant world that I can influence.  People who have those desires in common with me dislike phasing for that reason.

     

    To put it bluntly, just because you can't handle a game doesn't mean it's bad.  And if you're going to quit an MMO because you get ganked 3 times then you may not have what it takes to play multi player games because unlike single player games, someone eventually has to lose.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by Elikal



    Thanks. Indeed. None of the points seemed to outrule phasing.

    Points 1, 3, 4 and 5 can be removed with phasing.  People can't take over a hunting spot if others are in a different phase.  It's pretty impossible to go back to noob phases and help lowbies who are just starting the game.  Abusing phases to play the market is possible too (See Uldum and emberweave farming).

     

    You seem like a pure themepark PvE person.  You stated very clearly that you don't take well to any kind of real PvP, in the field or even in the market.  That's fine, but not everyone shares your views.  Lineage is based on mass PvP and is the best selling MMO series in the Korean market.  EVE is based on freedom, with tons of true PvP, it has taxes and a true economy and has been growing for a longer period of time than any MMO... ever.

     

    People dislike Phasing because it turns a game "world" into a story.  I play single player games for a good story because no MMO will ever be as good at it as games like Bioshock or KoToR.  I play MMOs for the Persistant world that I can influence.  People who have those desires in common with me dislike phasing for that reason.

     

    To put it bluntly, just because you can't handle a game doesn't mean it's bad.  And if you're going to quit an MMO because you get ganked 3 times then you may not have what it takes to play multi player games because unlike single player games, someone eventually has to lose.

    Exactly.  "Phasing...turns a game world into a story."  Been saying this myself for some time.

    The original idea of MMORPG's was to go a step above and beyond the single player storytelling games and to create a virtual world in which your character coexisted with thousands of other players' characters.  World, not story.

    But to get the non-gamers into the market, I think MMORPG design took a step backwards to bridge the gap between non-gamer and MMORPG-gamer, and the middle of that gap is single player game.  Ha, they have folks paying online subscriptions to play what are essentially single player games; that's the most brilliant marketing idea since whipped peanut butter.

    Phasing was not a success in Cataclysm and will not be a good tool to use in future games.  Sure, Marketing may take a poll and come back with players saying they want "more story" or to "have an impact on changing the world", but in practice, phasing sucks and those who play it know it sucks, and games heavy on phasing lose subs they could have kept.

    I see phasing as a way to engineer failure into a game; business minds paying their devs to make the gaming experience worse.

     

    Here's to a return of MMORPG's that are worlds, not stories.  Hopefully sooner than later.

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