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Originally posted by osc8r ...
Hmm... compared to AOC, Aion, and even Vanguard to an extent (landscapes, open world). But the thing that really lets Rift down is it's lack of armor variety and colours, and animations. This is all IMO.
I agree with AoC, I don't agree with Aion (well, things may change once they implement the graphics improvements if they haven't already) and I've never played Vanguard due to zero support, development and subsequently future.
Looking at class dps passes post patch rogues are doing less sustained DPS than even clerics, so the reason they are more diverse is they no longer have a competitive spec (which sab supplied pre-patch, albeit overboard). And there still isn't too much variety for rogues, rangers and MM are jokes, and there are only certain melee spec's that are viable (pvp).
I would wager on the future of rogues considering what they can do right now. You are talking sustained DPS and it is true that is needed for PvE content. For PvP however where rogues trully shine is disables and heal debuffs. Once ground of strength is reworked, the next massive whining on the forums will be due to rogues destroying casters. Especially if they up their damage. I can outheal pyro damage thrown at most people with some decent gears, I can outheal two of them hitting me as long as noone stuns/silences me even for a second. I'm helpless vs the rogue I mentioned if I'm cornered it's a losing battle fast. I've seen MMs kitting warriors and other melees indefenitely in some warfronts, so I don't see them being able to dish damage comparable to pyros any time soon.
If trion spent a little more time fixing broken classes instead of going way overboard with nerfs, then maybe rogues wouldn't be leaving the game in droves.
I think the changes were needed. I also think that they are not enough. Overall PvP needs to last longer than 5 seconds and people need to become more durable. Whether that will come from damage nerfs or healing buffs remains to be seen.
I agree, certain warlock spec's make even Pyro's look underpowered, so even if they do see the light and nerf pyros (which will be a long shot - with the warhammer brightwizard dev in charge of balance and all), the age of mages will still continue.
But even if the game was perfectly balanced, warfront grinds being 'endgame pvp' is laughable.
I also agree about warfronts. They reproduce the same problems WAR had with theirs. It's sustainable over time gain in prestige and favor, something you can't find in the open world unless there is some massive invasion or a world event happening. Basically the warfronts remove people from the open world and have them grind in there until they get all pvp rewards. If by the time this is over they are not tired of PvP, then those people can vitalise world PvP again, since there is nothing else to be gained form warfronts. The thing is, unlike the fast level gain, favor gain is slow, so it will take months for the prestige 6 people to get all their gear and move in the open world.
Originally posted by Xasapis Originally posted by Krytycal ...
Graphics of the last 4 MMOs I've played. Some of them are considerably older than Rift.
Now those are what I consider good graphics. Rift's graphics are average at best.
LOTRO DX10 and DX11 vistas are indeed more impressive overall than Rift's. On the other hand, LOTRO's character models are atrocious, you can't create a beautiful woman in there no matter what.
AoC DX10 is also better, but we'll need to consider the differences between zone based worlds and limitations against open based worlds and limitations. For this reason I think LOTRO score more points, despite having slightly less impressive vistas than AoC.
Aion is worse than Rift, both in zone open design, textures and vistas. The character models are comparable in visual quality, but Aion wins with more character creation customisation options.
DCUO I've never played so no comment. Isn't it a zone based game though?
AoC kinda destroys everything when it comes to graphical prowess. That and it's actually getting an upgrade soon. The most graphically demanding MMO on the market getting a graphic update. Noice. LotrO has nice landscapes but, agreed, horrid models.
Regarding Aion, I think the textures are pretty much a toss up. More character customization in Aion. I would actually have to go on a zone-by-zone comparison. For example, Poeta looks immensely better than Silverwood, being comparable zones, but Eltnen's desert is pretty bland compared to some of what I have seen in Stonefield. Rift's animations are completely and utterly destroyed by Aion's, even tossing aside the fact that they are differing art styles. I honestly felt like Trion didn't give much of a damn when it comes to combat immersion, with subpar animations and sound effects. I would also have to give armor to Aion. Sadly the most striking graphics in Rift are the Rifts themselves, which I have to agree, are pretty gimmicky.
.. But in a good way.
@OPOP seemed to play too many MMOs and is clearly a burnout, maybe got also kicked from dungeon or was one shotted by Pyro in WF. Either way - highly negative biased review. Biased as lots of this issues aren't truth or are temporary bugs/imbalances every other MMO has and which will be resolved soon. OP would never play Rift even if none of these issues he wrote were present. He just wanted something else and seen same old MMO concept.
Also brining up LOTRO instances as challenging content...6-manning 12-man hard mode raid boss(LT in BG), 3-manning 6-man HM(SG) or soloing 3-man(school, library) content was a common thing in LOTRO before I left. Hardly hard for anyone but real casuals.
@soul issuesEither You have some minor imbalance(and no Pyro isn't minor ) or You have homogenization like in WoW. There aren't just that many ways You can design tank, dps, healer and made them equally viable.
@graphicsRift has okay graphics(aka good enough so I don't see any glaring issues and not feeling like in 10 years old game), but much more important PERFECT engine behind. On 4 years old rig I can run Rift at high(not maxed of course) and game is playable even with 20-30 people smacking boss/invasions. Heck it doesn't really slow down that much with 100+ people I've seen in headstart boss fights.
LOTRO while having pretty zone design it has abysmal armour(cloaks were nice tho) and character design. Also horses(mounts) are so skinny there. But when it came to engine efficiency 48 folks in PvP caused lots of lag and server instability. 24 man raids also meant toning down graphic setting for those with weaker/older rigs, not an issue here.
Graphics are really a matter of taste, you aren't going to agree on it. Rift has very bland graphics but some people like that.
Originally posted by yyiri Unfortunately there is alot in Rift that is broken. Don't get be wrong, it's a really pretty game, the soul system is fun and dynamic, although the cookie-cutter syndrome is very quickly emerging and people are starting to get elitist about builds and DPS-metering. What's broken in Rift: - Crafting is a joke. The recipes do not match up against drops, it's mainly a money/time sink - PvP. Everything about PvP is somewhat broken right now. Class balancing, PvP gear, open world PvP and incentives, PvP options. This is a major bummer for me - PvE. Contrary to what was marketed at release about how "polished" Rift is, the truth is, alot of the end-game PvE content was NOT complete! Raid rifts were only recently introduced, rewards for raid rifts were also recently patched in. Trion has started NERFING rewards from Greenscale and expert dungeons to slow down the progression of players. This caused an uproar in the forums because the hardcore guilds had reaped all the fast rewarding content, and casual players suffered the brunt of these changes I cancelled my sub today because of the complete lack of attention to PvP in the game. Will see how things pan out especially in the next big patch (unannounced).
I actually was first drawn to this game cause of the PvP myself. Then when I got in Beta, we created a lot of PvP when they enabled it. The character combat was so sluggish and boring, slow GCD and an auto attack that was useless was just a big let down. I even posted lots of complaints on their official site cause I knew devs read through stuff and saw a blue post about it saying they weren't going to change it. I heard about the varied class system I thought would bring even more interesting pvp battles of not knowing who you'd really be up against. But it was still way too cookie cutter for me. I played through beta and got an alpha invite even and hoped I'd find something that would get me further interested.
I heard an interview with Scott Hartsman talking about PvP and it sounded really good. He mentioned looting players, and the fact if a guild wanted to invade a city, they wouldn't stop it and to let people have their fun and such, it sounded like my kind of game.
I was a stubborn RIft fan boy for many months before it's release and was let down.
I decided to pass it up. Wait for something else.
Originally posted by Ender4 Graphics are really a matter of taste, you aren't going to agree on it. Rift has very bland graphics but some people like that.
I wasn't a fan of them. I played a caster and that long drawn out animation like I was the pope throwing holy water on everyone in super slow motion over and over again just got to me. It was terribad to me. The character creation screen to me was extremely limited for todays games too. It was barely an improvment from WoWs. The worgen look more impressive in WoW to me.
Plus, I have many screenshots I took of vendors and such where I could see really bad polygons and seems where the polygons met. It really looked terribly bad. I was kind of feeling sorry for the artists there cause on one of the vids, they said world renowned and the only thing I could think of is, renowed like Picasso? I wasn't greatly impressed. I had posted about them on their website and someone said they were placeholders probably. I highly doubt that. I think that was finished product. And if was a placeholder, it would probably never be replaced cause they so busy with other issues.
I hated the overuse of particle effects too when fighting. That was annoying the most.
Some things looked good, but the bad really stood out and is like a splash soda stain on your monitor but you couldn't clean it up.
While I agree that the character design is the weakest point in LOTRO graphics, keep in mind that Rift is not much better once you factor in the armor. Yes, the creation screen character models are prettier for a whole 5 levels until you start getting your armor. It goes downhill from there. It's no secret that lack of variety/ugly armor is one of the most common complaints in Rift. I normally wouldn't mind this if the game offered a Cosmetic tab like many games do so I could pick and choose the styles I do like, but it doesn't, so you have to stick with whatever ugly piece of gear has the best stats as you level. A pretty face won't do much if your mage has to wear different variations of the same poncho for god knows how many levels.
As far as Aion, zone design and texture is up for debate. They both have their ups and downs. However, Aion is the clear winner in the character design/customization/animation department.
Don't get me wrong. I play Rift and it's fun. I don't think Rift graphics are bad per se, and they are certainly better than WoW's. They are not great by today's standards though, which is what I wanted to point out. Actually, "bland" and "uninspired" would be the first words to come to my mind if someone asked me to describe Rift's graphics and art design.
Well, regarding armor variety I blame both certain prude parties that put a pressure to the game regarding certain armor designs and Trion for balking to that pressure.
For example, you can check how the female Defiant guards look in Meridian. Then you can go and check how the prestige 6 PvP helm and shoulders look and how the chest piece fits (or I should say does not fit) to those two pieces. This is just one example of an obvious armor piece change prior to launch.
Need to use spell checker, but I agree with poster. I tried rift I found nothing special about it to me. I feel what I play now EQ2 blows rift off the map, but thats just me everyone is different.
Rift is an ok game...enough to keep one busy for a bit. WoW was my first mmo and learned the hard way to use the story line, otherwise, simply no reason to play. I'm doing pretty much everything, been playing since release and currently lvl48 (and play about 3-4 hrs a day). For whats available, I give it two thumbs up though it will be my last park driffen game.
Originally posted by eycel Originally posted by Xasapis ....
I like reading forums and this has always been one of my favorites, yet the way people treat others is so bad I cant help my self from remaining away from websites like these where people can say what ever they want to disrespect other people. Im refering to
7. the over speed of lveling, was simply laughable. The only other game that had just as fast leveling was AoC , but AoC had way more content.
That's a bit subjective. For me Aion had the best levelling speed at lauch, but if you remember at the time people found it a horrible grind. I suppose some people (me among them) need to get used to the fact that most MMOs today are made for people with jobs and an active social life. MMOs today seem to be build for people investing 2 or so hours per day tops in them.
I literally cant read these forums any more without getting dissed hard or disrespected by very hatefull disregard for humane ways to talk publicly to other people. Its all good in a personel message but thousands of people read these threads. Out right disregard of other people by saying things like "made for people with jobs and an active social life" is totally unrespectfull to any average citizen, and really we don't want to have to read it over and over in every thread. All I have to say is if you have to say those type of things to the thousands of people reading then, please spare us your agony.
In all honesty I don't know if its the parents that come up with these bright idea's and it gets handed down to there kids, because thats all it is, hatespeach. Please spare us again I must say it, make a thread in the off topic about your social life endevours and how econmics contributes in your life, for the rest of us want to stay on the topic of rift at hand. PLEASE, SPARE ME FROM READING YOUR LIFE STORY, PLEASE...
There are so many other good things you can contribute then adding to the flamefest. Instead of disrespecting readers by making crackpot jokes about different types of people, you could come up with something worth reading like " peoples daily activity throughout new gen mmos differs from last gen mmos" something better then the social/job dribble that spews its way into every frigin thread it seams.
I know your not personally attacking others, as you say your part of it, but even so its painfull on the eyes to even read. Reading is suppose to be eloquent and roll of the eyes and your mind, not want you to stab your eyes out and have a brain aneurysm and that is what this forum makes me feel like the one time I come here every other 6 months. Please parents don't give your children these bad habbits and terrible ways writing, for all of humanitys sake. Thanks for reading.
You're reading stuff that do not exist. What I wrote I expect people to take at face value, not to look for hidden messages, innuendos and insults. Seriously though, how exactly I was disrespectful by claiming that MMOs today are made for people with much less free time than in the past? I'm among those people by the way.
Back on topic. I wasn't surprised by RIFT, and I am enjoying it.
What I expect: casual game that I could do a little bit of everything in and have fun as long as I don't go all hardcore with it.
It's a casual game, never heard anything about it that indicated hard core, other than the boring dungeon grinds. (which I am in no hurry to get to 50 for.
What I do not expect: good pvp. Anything to do at end game that isn't a lame ass dungeon grind.
With that in mind, I've been having fun with RIFT, which is the same exact thing I'd do if I was playing WoW or any other generic title out there. Welcome to the new generation of gaming
Originally posted by I_Return Originally posted by crazynanny Also brining up LOTRO instances as challenging content...6-manning 12-man hard mode raid boss(LT in BG), 3-manning 6-man HM(SG) or soloing 3-man(school, library) content was a common thing in LOTRO before I left. Hardly hard for anyone but real casuals.
I guess after playing LotrO, I just expect a certain level in the content. The 3 manning 6 mans is simply because level 65's are doing lvl 60 content, and the Schools are level 58+ content. I wouldn't be surprised pro gamers are able to do them, I would be surprised is the causual gamer could do 16th hall with 3 people because you have to pop the mushrooms, dps down the boss, and dps down the runners + keep everyone live. Think your generalization of LotrO is from the window looking and not actually playing the gam . It was a good jab though but clearly missed the troll mark.
Not that Rift is some kind of hardcore raiding game. It's also casual MMO, although clearly less than LOTRO, mostly due to its group nature.
Please refrain from engaging in personal arguements and taking the thread off topic. Thanks.
Anyone that has any experience at level 50 knows the game just sucks sorry, the expert dungeons are a re hash of the old ones with a couple extra bosses a very little new area. Most of the end encounters in these are screwy as well and can be very buggy.
Rift raids are a joke and the nerf of the Plaque awards for completing the expert dungeons were to me s slap in the face, not to even mention the constant nerfs to classes. Speaking of classes I found zero personality in any of them honestly, just very bland, I have cancelled as well and I was an Alpha and beta tester who had very high hopes for this game. For those of you defending the game please get to 50 and play there for a while you will see, it is the same old grind rep and grind gear all over again! I was hoping for so much more Everything we tried to tell them in Alpha has come true, leveling is way to fast, the classes were not balanced at launch, buggy boss fights on and on
As for the pvp it had to be the worst I have seen yet, no purpose or goals on the PvP servers, the WFs are to me pretty crappy and not a whole lot of fun, the funny thing is all the nerfs are coming from PvP. I could go on and on and I am sure I will get flamed because to dared to bash the game, but oh well.
Its usually amusing to read the sad laments of a power gamer type... ^^ As difficult as it may be to imagine, the vast majority of games are not created or designed with that type of player in mind. Looking through your list, its obvious what your perspective is/was coming in to the game. All I can do is wish you the best in your next game(which you will no doubt power your way through) and wish you the very best of luck. Power gamers tend to either burn themselves out eventually, or become endlessly disappointed.
I don't really understand why people keep saying Rift has great graphics. It doesn't. I played it with everything maxed and it was the most visually dull and uninspired MMO I've played in the last 5 years. I guess it looks good compared to WoW and Runescape, and it runs smoothly, but that's not enough to justify the price tag. It's sad that "polished" is considered a feature now days.
Here's a link to my growing collection of screenshots. Let me know if you still think that the game doesn't have great graphics. You may also want to add what other game you're comparing Rift with.
Some nice screenshots you have there, cheers!
There's a turn-off for me with these type of in-game shots though and that's all the bars and chat windows, ect. I wish there's always an alternate screen capture button that just captures the graphics. Should be implemented in all games imo especially the simple translucent or hide options which are always helpful. I mean it'll be more common and have been even great in cases where some games have been designed with a reduced showing interface. Adds more immersion for me too.
BTW, RE:WoW, don't forget that when WoW launched it actually took a good chunk of time to hit the level 60 cap. Blizzard has retuned everything to make it much, much easier to get to level cap, but it didn't used to be that way. We can debate whether or not Blizzard's tuning of the game has been beneficial in the context of keeping an aging title successful, but if Vanilla WoW had had as quick a path to 60 as exists in WoW now, the game would never have succeeded.
I think most of the players, now, have played to 60, 70, 80, or 85. Meaning that people are coming back to it, not starting from scratch, or leveling alts, ect. Therefore, it needs to be easier, now, so that the hook is more accessable. I think a lot of MMOS look at the rate of how fast things move in WoW, and copy it, or make it easier. Once players hit the end, it's back to "Shit, now what?" If you take 8 days of gameplay (Total hours, not waking up and playing 8 times) to reach a cap, those people will stick around. Even if the end-game isn't that great, hell, that was a lot of play-time, it's worth something. When you grind to 50 in about one fifth that, the level 50 doesn't really have the staying power.
Personally I feel the OPs problems with Rift stem more from the '1- 50 in 2 weeks' than any of the things he listed.
They'll never be able to please everyone. Either they make it easy to level and you have people whining about 1-50 in 2 weeks, or they make it more difficult and take more time and they start crying about the grind.