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EVE Online: Community Done Right



  • BlindchanceBlindchance WhywouldyouliketoknowPosts: 1,081Member

    If only EVE's combat wasn't that bloody boring...

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,219Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Blindchance

    If only EVE's combat wasn't that bloody boring...

    This is the reason I have not tried EvE to date. But if GW2 fails and Blackstar too then I'll give EvE a good shot.

    Originally posted by toxicmango

    Other companies have taken a far harder line to misconduct by staff when found out, instead of trying to cover up and blame whistleblowers. That shows at least an intent to be honest and to punish wrong doing. What CCP did with its cover up and blaming of whistleblower players is show it has a corrupt culture bent on preserving the privileges of their "in-group". And no, I don't think developers should be involved directly in guilds or being active players, forming allegiances and biases. Developers should be impartial and be looking out for the good of the game, not being friends with some players and enemies of others. That is not to say developers should not be open to player feedback, just that they should maintain a clear professional boundary to avoid conflicts of interest. Cheating effects are much much worse on a single server game as it affects everyone. Even forms of cheating such as giving your friends or yourself goodies does so since it gives unfair advantage compared to others that had to earn it the hard way. In cases where the goodies are limited, it means denying others from ever getting it (which is what happened in the first major developer cheating incident).

    True refs should be impartial and devs are required to set the rules and allow an even playing-field. That said players don't give refs the respect they often deserve and if I was a dev I'd be willing to bend the rules for the greater good or the attitude: "It all evens out in the end"... I kinda think the future of mmos involves the line blurring between dev and player?

    I appreciate some of the concerns definitley sound wrong but then even RL nepotism is never completely shut out from most human affairs, if you dig deep enough, that is??

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member

    EVE has a great fanfest, however, the community of fans who can afford to fly to iceland is not representitive of the actual number of fans who actually subscribe to the game. So I don't see how the OP can rationally claim EVE has a community "done right". Granted, the in-game community is decent and better than most, but it is far from any shining example of a "good" community.

  • jpaprockijpaprocki Posts: 289Member Uncommon

    I played eve from beta until 2008 and a few times since then for about a week at a time.  The community in eve can be harsh, but if you get into a decent corp, you can ignore the rest of the community if you wish.

    It's not a game for those who have thin skin, like to see something other than what space has to offer, and doesn't have their heads on a swivel.  It's a harsh game that has mechanics set to encourage ganking & scamming.  When the game first started there was something for everyone and all play styles.  Slowly over the years they have changed the game mechanics to favor only a certain play style which is why I stopped playing.  In my recent trips back I have seen it getting worse.

    This game, like all other mmo's does get stagnant after awhile, it  just takes longer.  There is a grind, but the grind is what you make it.  There is nothing they could do to the game to get me to go back to it for any length of time.  If it wasn't for the constant "please come back and here is an offer for free activation" emails I get monthly I wouldn't have been back since I left in 2008.

    I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying the game.  It is what you make it, but don't go into the game thinking your going to get to play it how you want, unless of course scamming and griefing is what you like.  Try the game and see if it's for you.  Just find a decent corporation from the start and stick with them.  It will make things much easier on you and you just may find you like it.



    No,  you can't have my stuff! image

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 870Member Uncommon

    EvE is one big messed up familly, thats for sure.

    But thats how we like it.

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 870Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by toxicmango

    When cheaters in other games or companies get caught, ... <SNIP>


    Come on. You talk in riddles. Tell us what the lies where. CCP has owned up to everything that I have seen proven. Been in the game for 7+ years and attached to about every coalition in the game, exept the russians, and I have yet to see anything like what you say. That said I have seen a lot of propaganda, but you have to know when coalitions are filling you with garbage be course they are getting beaten (and it couldnt possibly be due to them just plainly sucking, could it?) and the true stuff. The T20 affair was real though blown out of proportion, and the whole T2 miner stuff was ugly as well. That aside, the rest that I have seen of alligations have been hot air.

  • GawayneGawayne SPosts: 2Member

    @toxicmango: Just because you don't know companies got caught that doesn't mean they didn't. Blizzard itself got caught a thousand times, and most of the time the only thing that happens is the responsible changing his community name and that's it. I could mention tons of cases of tons of companies but I just don't have time for this right now.

    Games promise you tons of things and when they launch it's not exactly what they promised, isn't that cheating? Isn't just changing a couple of textures, dialogues and weapons and then selling it to you as a whole new game cheating? Isn't it cheating to make you want to eat something that they KNOW it's slowly killing you? NO company admits their mistakes and NO company tells you the truth. The difference is most other companies got a bigger marketing budget.

    Fact is you're just fooling yourself. You're being cheated all your life, by all companies you ever bought something of or worked for, in one way or another you ARE being cheated. The secret is: Can the company do so much good that it's bad doesn't really matter? CCP can. It's the sole company holding the standart of true MMOs, the day CCP dies the original MMO concept will also die. In fact most MMOs today feel more like a single player game with a very good multiplayer system.

    Fortunately EvE is growing little by little every year and when they launch World of Darkness Online things will just get better.

  • toxicmangotoxicmango San Francisco, CAPosts: 92Member Uncommon
    Spoken like true sheeple. Do you honestly believe it is alright if tomorrow you find out the corp you are at war with has a dev in it giving goodies to his friends so they can beat you? Do you think it alright if the open ended sandbox event you joined turned out to be rigged so that your corp or you were destined to lose despite wasting resources and ships while others got handed prizes on a silver platter? What if that big tournament with its prizes turned out to be rigged to be given to a dev's friends and the resources wasted in participating were all for nothing? Or alternatively what if in the old days, which is what happened, the t2 lottery prize got given away? The only reason apologists are trying to claim it was ok was because they either weren't there or they didn't personally think felt the effects. It's simply the "It didn't happen to me so it's ok" excuse. If any of the above happened tomorrow, and they were on the receiving end they'd probably be screaming bloody murder like anyone else.

    If cheating and rigging were not such a big deal, why do you think sporting associations and the like go to such trouble to avoid possible conflicts of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interests.

    The t20 scandal was not blown out of proportion. CCP only admitted things after the evidence was blown out in the open and the dev confessed. Before that CCP was lying through their teeth claiming it was all false, only to then be forced to admit actually they had known it was true all along. It was a big deal because it cheated every single player that was doing research at the time. It was equivalent to a lottery official stealing the lottery prize. Not only did those that did not deserve it get it, all those that were investing effort were wasting time and effort. Just because something occurred in the past doesn't mean it isn't irrelevant or can be forgotten and brushed under the rug and whitewashed today.

    Not all the other allegations were hot air, only CCP was never forced to the point of admitting it (because unlike the t20 scandal, nobody was stupid enough to confess). If you ask around or dig among those that know, or were involved in the actual incidents, you would find out that CCP was actually guilty of far more than it ever admitted to. Ask the RPers for example for the issue about rigged events. There is no dispute among them that they were rigged, though the apologists will try to claim it was "necessary". In that area at least, the sandbox that CCP tried to tout was a lie. Hence why I said earlier, the only lesson CCP has learned is "never admit anything" because short of the culprit confessing, there will always be community members that will reject the possibility of misconduct. The only time it ever admitted anything was when somebody had already individually confessed and denial was no longer possible. Right up to that point however, they were doing so.

    The bad that CCP has done far outweighs any good it might have done, and the sooner its corrupt corporate culture dies the better. No amount of smokescreen or glitzy bling can conceal the rotten stink underneath. Paying customers won't pay for developers to get their jollies at the customers' expense. Developers of a major game are meant to be professional and not just a bunch of people fooling around with the boys in the garage. Yes, there will probably be never a perfect company but no other MMO company supports corruption to such an extent of blaming its players to the point of accusing players of conspiracy against the company. A company and game that supports such a corrupt model deserves to die out.

    Nor am I the only one. The fact that people quit when the scandals broke says something and when discussing with some players or friends in other games, there were some that were positively repulsed when they heard about the scandals (and read about it on other sites, not just from me), despite whatever game features might initially have prompted them to consider EVE. Fairness in a game, and the attempt to preserve it even when imperfect, does matter when it comes to people paying hard earned money for it. Customers can vote with their wallets, and one common oversight is people only noticing what occurs, not what doesn't occur. Marketers and companies notice people joining or leaving, but less noticeable are the people that never joined for example as a result of these scandals.
  • Black0rchidBlack0rchid Denver, COPosts: 3Member

    One size does not fit all.  EVE is the kind of game people like if they like that that type of game.  Personally,  I though of it as my interactive screensaver.  I checked the game box to see if it came with a kitchen timer, gameplay certainly required one.  Admittedly its been years since I played, but nothing in this thread makes me think anything substantial about EVE has changed. 

    I call BS on the claims that EVE has no grind.  For the three months I played it was nothing BUT grind. Travel, just going from place to place was a grind and FFS what is mining asteroids if not grind.  If a player has to endure more than a week of that mind-numbingly boring experience before any fun is encountered; well that's a form of hazing on the part of the developers. 

    EVE has created an environment that allows bullies and other assorted asshats to thrive and dominate. I'm not surprised that class of player is thrilled with the game.  I am grateful that not every developer wants that type of experience for their customers.

  • treelotreelo caralPosts: 70Member

    In a game that actively encourages backstabbing and corruption, what did you expect?  The only thing they did wrong was get caught in the act.  Take your libertarian conspiracy claptrap elsewhere.



  • toxicmangotoxicmango San Francisco, CAPosts: 92Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by treelo

    In a game that actively encourages backstabbing and corruption, what did you expect?  The only thing they did wrong was get caught in the act.  Take your libertarian conspiracy claptrap elsewhere.


    You seem to confuse game with reality. Customers are paying for a service. If the company fails to provide it, customers take their money elsewhere. If the company goes further and engages in severe corruption or fraud in real life, they can expect to be sued and spend time in court.

    Like other apologists in the past, you seem to only promote and sanction it because you don't think it will happen to you or perhaps think that you will be the one on the exploiting end. If tomorrow, CCP staff were caught engaged in misconduct against your corp or your player account, I doubt you would be so positive about it.
  • SharookSharook MünchenPosts: 72Member

    Originally posted by taulutussi

    If the game had more twitch oriented combat, I'd probably go for it. That's why Dust 514 needs to come out for PC :(


    My thoughts exactly.


    I 've played EvE since open beta, been on and off with large pauses in between and as much as I appreciate CCP as a company and their style of service, the sandbox-ness of eve (since i am a huge fan of sandbox games), the way they expand it etc, etc. BUT it is NOT MY GAME. And it will not become my game if I just play longer, I played long enough. And the reason for this is that I dont enjoy it's very core game mechanics, especially the combat, then how mining works (tedious) and crafting (no brainer), the flying around with a large percentage of half-afk times. yes it is space travel i know that it can not be shortened without a price but i feel bored most of the time when flying around. And this is what you do 90% of your time, unless you are metagaming a lot. Metagaming is great but I don't care as long as I don't enjoy the basic day to day activities. I do not even want twitch combat, but I feel far too limited in my options when flying a ship, I want more tactical options, especially on the smaller ones. I am from the Star Wars generation and I have been risen with the imagination that you can do a lot in a small space craft ;-)  Not just scrambling and dying.  There is no trench run in Eve. And do not come to me and talk about the zillions of items, skills and what not, these are just modifiers to numbers, the actual number of real alternatives of tactical relevance is rather limited and in the sum of what can be installed in a ship is too small for my taste. the tactical options i have are decided in the fitting screen, so they are actually strategic options, since i can not alter them in the field (apart from changing ammunition types which is a no brainer).


    Call me a carebear but for me generally the world of Eve is too harsh. Player-driven politics here unlimited freedom there, whatever. The overall habit of the player population feels like in a pond with sharks there is much more violence and scam than there is cooperation, there is always some asshat or griefer coming about. Small corps get blackmailed to pay protection money or get war-decced just for the fun of it and these kind of things. The piracy is more about blowing up stuff than getting booty. It does not have the economical incentive of RW piracy, but  the notion of masskilling psychopaths that are not afraid to die. It feels like a gang war of latin-american slums brought to a galactic scale. It just does not feel like an intergalactic civilization. This is a game for big fish, not small fry.


    I totally would like to rejoin the eve universe as a ground soldier, but i won't buy a petty console for that and they can not port it to the pc, since pc gamers would annihilate the console players.


    So long story short, Eve is great, but it is definetely not for everyone, and that includes me and I am somewhat sad about it.


    Oh yeah and for ppl that say it has no grind i say BS. Ok you are not forced to grind xp since you skill automatically and you do not have quest grind. But basically to achieve something you will have to do activities that feel repetitive and tedious == GRIND. Getting the standing with my research agents was a huge grind. GRIND is not a game mechanic it is a FEELING, of the players how they feel about game activities. Think about this definition. And yes, it is highly opinionated label.

  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    I dont play EVE, and the few months i spent playing it dont really make me an hardcore fan or player, so im saying this as an MMORPGs customer: i find funny that there are people in these forums speaking of "lies" and "cheats" towards EVE, when its the other so called "mmo kings" that do the cheating and lie to people.

    So let me see if i get this right: a game that when it came out it looked like a bad copy of "wing commander" mixed with some rpg elements, grows up to be one of the most loved games known to gamers, from having ships that look like flying pencils to beautifully designed ships, constantly improving the game while at same time listening to the community, trying to go the distance with a faithful small hand of paying subs when there are other giant "thingies" out there that just cant do it right with 2x, 3x, 4x the amount of paying customers, charges nothing for new expansions, finds a system that allow players to exchange game money for game time cards, does the same for game characters, and all i read are poor excuses to point a finger to a game that stands the test of time and it is, im my modest opinion, the best PvP game out there. If u got the guns and the skills fly it, if not go do a friking dungeon and kill a boss to get some loot.

    Now, we come to a time where the friking CPU is no longer called a 386, or a 1.6, and GPUs no longer required a small hamster in a cage coupled to a wind fan to keep the damn card alive, and still you find games, like WOW, that have 9kk+ subscribers, keep launching expansions (paying ones) that are all the same crap, oriented for the same content, keeps u doing the same things but instead of being a lich king u now have to kill a friking dragon, but still they dont seem a little bit worried to improve or find a new direction to the game no no no, u get same ugly graphics, same mechanics, same content, same game leveling ladder, with the difference that now everything epic in that game was turned into a weekend amusement park for the kiddies (yes i played WoW 5 years) and an excuse for casuals to go buy gold from gold sellers and enjoy the newly bought epic gear while killing some rabbits.

    So, on one hand im glad EVE online is what it is, because i know, if i ever get to EVE online, and i will, that once i log in im surrounded with GAMERS and all the kiddies and casuals dont go further from where they got blown to pieces for trying to open the damn yellow container.

    Im trying hard to get into new games, and i bought and played many of them, only to find that they were incomplete, not ready to launch, and u say CCP is what??

    AOC: bought the Col. edt. Got my conqueror going, was going well, untill i find crafting doesnt work, pvp doesnt work, dungeons u could skip all frozen mobs, kill the boss (frozen also) get the loot and go away, i get to lvl62 with my conqueror and there is nothing more to do then same painful daily quests at same dungeons, game was not ready to launch, and this is not lying?

    WAR: i love this game, mostly because of the lore behind it, but it sadly was not ready to launch. Broken mechanics, dozens of bugs, i bought colector edition and i cried again. Only after 8 months i found the game playable. They made me pay for a broken game, 72 euros, and it didnt work, I didnt had my money back. This is not lying?

    AION: oooooooooooooooooooomg longest queues ever...i could log in, and go to the movies because the waiting time to enter was like 3-4 hours...sometimes more. Once u go past the gorgeous starting area, and the painfuly starter dungeons, u find abyss at lvl28 if i recall it right, only to find that u cant have pvp in abyss because if u get 400 guys flying around, the game crashes, or lets u have fun in 10 fps, or asks u to go buy top of the line PC well above the requested requirements to play it. NC SOFT solution for this: hey press F12 so u can dumb down graphics and be able to see...oh w8..u couldnt see shit except the friking npcs. This is not lying?

    Archlord, Tabula Rasa, Star Trek (cry) lie lie lie. And i cant imagine the other games i didnt get to play.

    I could go on but i just realized that dumb ppl saying crap will not give 2 cents for my post, because they r happy playing their dumb games. And as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss" u couldnt tell a real game from an improved version of "chuckie egg" even if it was standing next to you. Maybe the money doesnt come out of your pockets but from your daddys, because u r still paying for the clearasil u bought last week, or some stupid thing, but im a paying customer, and i get angry when i get cheated and lied to, you just get angry when u get blown to pieces or get killed while u were mining to craft some pants.

    Kudos for Guild Wars, and EVE online, u got my money and respect.

    Blizzard, you killed the best game i played. Once someone said "only thing that can kill WoW, is WoW". It is dead. But the ignorants playing it cant see it.

    Kudos for long lasting games trying to make something different, like Vanguard. Never played it but i respect it.

    GW2...please hurry.

    TY sorry for the bad english and sorry for the flaming, but ignorance makes me mad.

  • Druid_UKDruid_UK RotherhamPosts: 58Member

    Their community, well at least some it, are great, but CCP themselves are abysmal.


    Their customer support is woefully inadequate, in fact, i'd go a far as abysmal.

    The "rules" that GMs work to are ridiculous.

    They have been caught several times by their customers, cheating and lying to their customers.

    The CSM is just a smokescreen brought about to try and diffuse the anger about when they had, yet again been caught doing underhand things to the benefit of a chosen few.

    That said, it's still the most in-depth MMO there is and the single server IS a big part of the games appeal. They do do some things really well, but when they do bad, they do really bad.

    Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!

  • Gardavil2Gardavil2 Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 394Member

    Good Read. I liked this article and most of the articles on this site in the last year I haven't liked or agreed with.

    EVE Online. Doesn't matter if you love it or hate it, whether as a Player you have done well playing it or sucked at EVE as I have...

    EVE is the best. EVE is real. IMHO the best MMO to ever be created.

    When the Suits get done ruining the MMO genre, with the help of many of it's Players no less, it will be EVE Online that is remembered in the history books, not World of Warcraft.

    I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
    "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
    __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
    ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...

  • mqragnarokmqragnarok KraljevoPosts: 21Member

    I've tried a couple of other MMO's , but they all tend to have the "disappearing people syndrom" - people that you used to play with on one shard just leaving for some other one, sometimes without even notifying you. Guilds that stick together and know what they are doing are mostly either "elitist" or role playing. Since I don't like any of those two groups, I'm yet to find a community in some other MMO similar to EVE's.

  • CactusJackCactusJack South, FLPosts: 393Member

    If you don't like EvE, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.  CCP has made their fair share of mistakes, but what other MMO experience is like New Eden? I have tried several, and have  yet to find one. EvE's community is no more varied than any other MMO out there. However, b/c there is Open World PvP, you get a segment that attempts to play the game in a fashion that you personally don't care for.

    There is nothing wrong with you not liking it, but saying the community sucks is short sighted. If griefers or scammers are making your life miserable in EvE, CCP has provided you with the tools to correct it.

    Instead of pressing the "petition" button or entering in /gm ...why don't you get some friends and DO SOMETHING. Why players can't see this is beyond me. If that is too much work, too much effort..then you should quit. Solo'ing a MMO isn't what CCP had in mind. It's possible, but you aren't really winning..are you?

    Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
    Hiatus: EvE
    Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
    Interested in: better games in general

  • DrakolusDrakolus Aurora, COPosts: 86Member Uncommon

    Only MMO that has consistantly pulled me back year after year.  Been playing since 2004.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Posts: 1,094Member Uncommon

    unique ,only one real MMORPG at ganre market...It is EVE !

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    Originally posted by mrcalhou

    The biggest thing that I think is preventing other developers from getting the emergent gameplay right is that they feel that in a "sandbox" you can't have any penalties because then it's imposing on the players' freedom. I know I see this sort of mentality in the player-base quite often. Without penalties, the choice you make is trivial and the game just starts to get stale and stagnate. Hopefully other developers will realize that having penalties, even harsh penalties, makes the game much more interesting.


    To expand on what you said, EVE is one of the few MMOs that allows you to actually lose. That is one of the best things about it IMO: it matters if you make a mistake or an error of judgement or you're just plain careless.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

    Originally posted by toxicmango

    Originally posted by treelo

    In a game that actively encourages backstabbing and corruption, what did you expect?  The only thing they did wrong was get caught in the act.  Take your libertarian conspiracy claptrap elsewhere.



    You seem to confuse game with reality. Customers are paying for a service. If the company fails to provide it, customers take their money elsewhere. If the company goes further and engages in severe corruption or fraud in real life, they can expect to be sued and spend time in court.

    Like other apologists in the past, you seem to only promote and sanction it because you don't think it will happen to you or perhaps think that you will be the one on the exploiting end. If tomorrow, CCP staff were caught engaged in misconduct against your corp or your player account, I doubt you would be so positive about it.


    You've made your point. Please stop hijacking the thread, it's against our Roc. if you hvae a beef, start your own thread.

    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor

  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member

    I couldnt help but laugh at the title because of my own first and only experience with the community available to me when i played. It was bad and that is all.

    Cool story tho, and it would make me want to play the game if i hadnt already tried it and seen that there is no actual gameplay.

    Its very well done for just playing with a menu screen.

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • liberalguyliberalguy Portland, ORPosts: 118Member

    Goons are now in charge of the Council of Stellar Management so fun times are surely coming!

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    I don't agree with the OP.

    The most obvious issue is that it's taken CCP years to create four 'captain's quarters'. That's a disaster.

    CCP announced new content as an April fool's joke - that's pretty sad when you think about it.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member Common

    Good article, but im going to have a rant here as the grammar is astoundingly poor.

    Please learn to punctuate as it sets a terrible example for kids reading this when the author simply can't write.

    It's not just this article, it's pretty much all of them.

    It just winds me up to see this so consistently accepted.

    BASIC grammar, for example, putting a comma before the word "and". The first line doesn't need a comma either, there is no pause there. Wrong from the very beginning.

    My grammar isn't great, but im not a writer. Grammar is the fundimental tool of your trade.

    Rant over ;)

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

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