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pay to win epidemic

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  • sudosudo Tel-AvivPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    This thread made me very sad... I just installed LotRO to see the DX11 changes and loved the ultra high settings VERY MUCH, but all the lotro store icons in game made me a bit worried, so I came here to ask a couple of questions... Now I see that my worst worries are true and lotro is a true pay to win now....

    I would still love somebody to explain what does a player who's paying a subscription fee get compared to a free player and are there any character recostumization and character name change services in the game?

    Thanks in advance.

    "Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
    Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
    Hans Margolius

  • TeiraaTeiraa Tempe, AZPosts: 447Member Common

    I would still love somebody to explain what does a player who's paying a subscription fee get compared to a free player and are there any character recostumization and character name change services in the game?

    Thanks in advance.

    There is a character renaming option in the store.

    As for paying a subscription, you basically get access to the quest packs (up to level 50 only) and access to PvP.

    I would strongly recommend not to subscribe for more than a month. Especially after the recent patch it is obvious that Turbine is trying to milk subscribers more and more. After level 50, there is no point to be a VIP, unless you do PvP.

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?387369-Recent-changes

    http://community.codemasters.com/forum/lotro-europe-store-feedback-suggestions-1385/459792-actually-make-vips-vips.html

  • SanguinelustSanguinelust Plainfield, NJPosts: 801Member Uncommon

    How does this make it pay to win? What are they going to win if they pay, the internet?

    It's not like it will make them Sauron and you Samwise.

    Relax and play the game how you choose to play it, Turbine gives you the choice, pay for that item now or play for it instead.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Oh the horror, the HORROR!!....image

    Come on guys, not this dead horse AGAIN... No matter how many hysterics some of you engage in, this is simply a different business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.  Its really that simple.  Its obvious that many people see no problem with it, or so many games with it wouldn't continue to exist.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    This topic would make a lot more sense if PvP actually mattered in this game or the items in the store were actually needed to complete content PvE wise.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • TeiraaTeiraa Tempe, AZPosts: 447Member Common

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Oh the horror, the HORROR!!....image

    Come on guys, not this dead horse AGAIN... No matter how many hysterics some of you engage in, this is simply a different business model. If you don't like it, don't play games that use it.  Its really that simple.  Its obvious that many people see no problem with it, or so many games with it wouldn't continue to exist.

    Oh the horror, the HORROR!!....image

    Come on guys, not this thread bashing AGAIN... No matter how many hysterics some of you engage in, this is simply a different way of discussing this issue. If you don't like threads like this, don't read them.  Its really that simple.  Its obvious that many people feel the need to discuss it, or so many threads about this issue wouldn't continue to exist.

    image

  • So as Paul Revere rides by your rotting corpse run-through by a dozen British bayonets you hear his fateful cry, "The British are coming, the british are coming!". 

     I say to Paul, " Really? " 

    We've been duly warned OP. Thx

  • jeremyjodesjeremyjodes antioch, ORPosts: 679Member

    So how long before an "I Win" button goes up for sale? I played this game before F2P I went back for a short time. It should have died a natural death instead of this F2P crap. sad very sad.

    image

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon

    Oh no Pay to win in a PvE game...

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    So how long before an "I Win" button goes up for sale? I played this game before F2P I went back for a short time. It should have died a natural death instead of this F2P crap. sad very sad.

     The I win button been in the shop since free to play went live.  Power/heath pots you cant get in game,  reputation horses you don't need rep to ride.

    Now we added the i-milk button for vip players.  The added a scroll that allows you to keep you relics when you decon an LI.  this fucntion used to be free.   Oh well I guess they figured the vip players were not spending enough tp so they got even more greedy.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

    Amen to that.

    Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

    It is a very rich world even without the known story.

    I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold



    Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

    Amen to that.

    Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

    It is a very rich world even without the known story.

    I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

    LOL. You cannot imagine the bitching and whining that would take place if someone attampted to add to the established LOTR lore. SW has the benefit of being still alive. Tolkiens work has nothing like the expanded universe of SW. Also if F2P Lotro remains popular, there will not be a next LOTRO. If LOTRO fails, there also will not be a next LOTRO. Enjoy what you have and stop bitching about other people playing differently than you in a game that has no competative element.

  • UW1975UW1975 Kingston, ONPosts: 183Member

    Originally posted by erictlewis

    Originally posted by jeremyjodes

    So how long before an "I Win" button goes up for sale? I played this game before F2P I went back for a short time. It should have died a natural death instead of this F2P crap. sad very sad.

     The I win button been in the shop since free to play went live.  Power/heath pots you cant get in game,  reputation horses you don't need rep to ride.

    Now we added the i-milk button for vip players.  The added a scroll that allows you to keep you relics when you decon an LI.  this fucntion used to be free.   Oh well I guess they figured the vip players were not spending enough tp so they got even more greedy.

    Not to break your hate list but:

    Power/Health Pots: While I agree there a tad annoying, there are absolutely not required for enjoying the game. Endgaming is doable without using them

    Rep Horses: yep, but you forgot to add that the Rep horses you buy in store have 150 morale, the one you get ingame havw 250 and that makes a huge difference gamewise.

    Scroll for relics removal: I don't like it either. but to be honest,, people are making too much of it, as t6 are easier to get these days and now with the ability to choose the legacies on the items, people will keep ther Second Age Level 65 weapons.

    Of course, they are trying to find a way to make VIPs spend their TP, they have to make benefits. (last time I checked the US were still a capitalist country, maybe they have changed...) but ultimately it is YOUR choice to spend them. I have spent them for a few Accelerator Deeds and a few cosmetic items, and still got 7000TP. I do endgaming regularly and I know lots of people who can endgame without spending too much points.

    So, if you don't like the hybrid system as you are the old crusaders of the old times of P2P games, where everything used to be great, go ahead. Go bitter, as a few other posters in this thread who are praying for the failure of LOTRO, not understanding that if LOTRO fails, no other MMO in Middle-Earth will ever be done. (and BTW, I still think that one of the major asset of the game is the abscence of PvP, see how classes in Rifts get constantly nerfed to understand what I mean)

    I for one will enjoy the new content (the new instances are a total blast, and well done indeed) and not get bothered by P2Win (you win what? e-peen cookies?). Of course, there are a few things that I do not like in the store, but the good far surpass the bad news.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold



    Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

    Amen to that.

    Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

    It is a very rich world even without the known story.

    I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

     

    Yes, thats what LOTR *really* needs... A good helping of free for all full loot, ganking and griefing...imageimage

  • MoulsMouls ububuaPosts: 90Member

    P2W is RoM and Allods

    LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)

    whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

    Amen to that.

    Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

    It is a very rich world even without the known story.

    I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

     

    Yes, thats what LOTR *really* needs... A good helping of free for all full loot, ganking and griefing...imageimage

    Right, cause the IP has been finely tuned to make for the perfect themepark mmo ;)

    Hopefully the IP is freed up sooner than later. This universe could be the foundation for one hell of an mmo. An abominable F2P themepark, not so much.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member


    Originally posted by Mouls
    P2W is RoM and Allods
    LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
    whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

    Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

    Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by crazynanny

     




    Originally posted by Mouls

    P2W is RoM and Allods

    LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)

    whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.






    Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

    Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

     

    This is silly.

    Though I will go on record as saying i have a litany of criticisms toward the game and that I think how they implemented the store is tacky, there are no game breaking, power buying "you must purchase with cash" items.

    I had a few points so I got a morale potion. used it. It was good. But wasn't so ground breaking that I ever bought it again. And if players do want to get them the you can use your turbine points and not spend a dime.

    Every player gets Turbine points. So just use them. You get them for playing the game or if you subscribe then you get an allotment each month.

    Which means that over the course of play you will get enough points to spend in the "store" without ever paying a dime.

    And calling people "fanboys" doesn't support your argument. If anything it weakens it.

    You don't have to "pay" or get 2nd rate anything. One can make their way through the game and never open the store. I agree that adding legendary items with extra slots that are "only in the store" is suspect at first glance but as I said you get points anyways so use them on that if that's your thing.

    The real shame is that they aren't available directly in game and one has to turn to a somewhat artificial vendor to get them.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    They just trying to squeeze more out of their small community as much as possible before they head up promoting their new console mmo.

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  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by crazynanny

     




    Originally posted by Mouls

    P2W is RoM and Allods

    LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)

    whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.






    Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

     

    Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

     

     

    I always wonder about people, and their something for nothing attitude. These games cost a LOT of money to create, and they take still more money to operate and to expand.  I've never had any problem paying for a game that I enjoy. Especially in the ones that have a cash shop.  I *WANT* the Dev's to be rewarded for their hard work.  That way, the game is not only more likely to remain around, but be expanded upon.  

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Colorado Springs, COPosts: 4,183Member

    Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

    It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

    That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

    I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

    image

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by xx19kilosold

    Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

    Amen to that.

    Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

    It is a very rich world even without the known story.

    I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

     

    Yes, thats what LOTR *really* needs... A good helping of free for all full loot, ganking and griefing...imageimage

    Right, cause the IP has been finely tuned to make for the perfect themepark mmo ;)

    Hopefully the IP is freed up sooner than later. This universe could be the foundation for one hell of an mmo. An abominable F2P themepark, not so much.

       Looks like you'll be waiting till 2015 then at the earliest...most likely at least 2017 though.  Have fun on that wait (and don't expect much different even if it does happen - since Turbine does have the support of ME)

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Originally posted by Amannas

    Barcrow's rundown is accurate,that is fact. It is also however very one-sided :)

    We run and grinded and raided and farmed skirmishes for our LIs for years now..with no particular trouble..let alone that if you farm your mats for your profs while you level,if you do even less than half of the deeds,if you even only occasionally work the AH,by the time you are top,you will have more than enough money to just buy from AH,making money in Lotro is a joke..be it the item itself,or the mats you need to upgrade it/enrich it,won't go into details as some may not be familiar here, it is piss to acquire it. Bottom line is, no, you do not need the cash shop. It is there for those lacking patience, interest in the long run, or discipline enough to make themselves work for their gear. Its been clockwork for years before this [F2P},i will say again. And if this doesn't give people the right idea? Let me add just this more: Thsi game is so,but so easy to play,so non challenging compared to modern(ish) MMOS,it is a joke for hardcore players..joke.i love it,i been playing it for a long time now,but fact is fact..it is very easy. There is not much stopping you from getting to the top. Do not let it get into your heads that any of this cash shop things is an essential in order to be raid gear competitive,in order to solo the 'fat lewt' places,or whatever..far from it..It is in fact the easiest mmo i have ever played so far,and i been on all AAA mmos since daoc,barring only ff14. Lacking the money or will to buy from shop does not restrict in any way,whatsoever

    Not playing LoTRO myself at the moment, though it is installed on my system in case I get the urge to log in and kick around a bit.

    The only money I will ever spend on LoTRO will be for a subscription for the normal gameplay experience. "Thanks, but no thanks" is all I have to say to anything regarding cash shops.

    Also... +1 for the Dreamfall avatar, Amannas :).

     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • NemorsaNemorsa El Cajon, CAPosts: 131Member

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

    It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

    That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

    I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

    The reason why a company like Turbine switches from a subscription service to a cash shop service is because continuing with only a subscription model is not viable in the long run, and could possibly lose the company money. They took a gamble with Dungeons and Dragons Online and it worked. Possibly Lord of the Rings Online was less of a gamble, but it was in the same situation, therefore a change was needed if Turbine wanted to keep the game running and making money. They are a company, like all companies they need to make money. What is the point of doing anything for the players if they aren't making money on it? In fact, they are doing it for the players, so they can keep the game running so we can keep playing. If that's greed than every company is greedy, because what's the point of having one if you are not making money? If you quit playing when they announced the switch to free to play, than of course they didn't do it for you, they did it for the people who love the game and are glad that it's surviving.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

    It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

    That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

    I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

     

    I hate to break it to you, but the *vast* majority of Dev's and their companies are in this for the money.  Those who aren't, are not going to get very far.  So, what is this "greed" you speak of? Thats entirely subjective. As is "decent profit".  You are more than welcome to your opinion, and everyone should only play games they enjoy.  But lets not forget that these games cost a LOT of money to make.  There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

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