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Do you prefer ffa-pvp everywhere, only consensual, or something in-between?
mrcalhou
Member UncommonPosts: 1,444
I, personally, love Eve-online's pvp system. While it's technically ffa-pvp everywhere, the consequences in many systems makes random pvp happen extremely infrequently in those areas, while pvp is actually encouraged in other parts of the game map.
Lately, however, it seems that a lot of games are coming out where pvp is being forced on the playerbase from the moment they log-in. Now, this isn't necassarily wrong in and of itself, but with the knowledge that it drives away so many potential players, why do developers still do it? These games also never seem to get the consequences for pvp balanced in such a way that there are times when it would make sense, from a strategic perspective, to not attack someone.
While I don't mind consensual pvp, it does take away a good chunk of emergent-characteristics from MMOs and I'm pretty bored with those types of games since they seem to be a dime a dozen.
I'd like to see something in-between: like a game with twitch combat mechanics (though better than what Darkfall and Xsyon offer), but a pvp system where players can play the game and not feel worried about getting ganked all the time, while there would also be content and resources unique to pvp areas to encourage players to go play in those areas.
What are your opinions?
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Comments
I'm with you on EVE. It does not altogether prohibit you from PVP in high security space, but most of the time, if you're going to gank there it means you're probably going to die, too. That's a good arrangement in my book.
Of course when suicide-ganking starts being too lucrative, the devs have to step in and do some adjusting, but other than that, it's a good system. Also, I like that 0.0 is wilder than Wild West. 
I also like open world "PVP lakes" where you can go in and out of, a la Warhammer Online PVE server setting. It's a bit more prohibitive, but it lets you have open world PVP while also providing the places to "PVE in peace" if that's what you want.
personally i want a server that is FFA PVP from level 1 with no safe zones on the entire map. no instances, no CC, and a death penalty.
i would be happy with an anywhere any time faction based pvp with a level restriction. in my home town afk idc stab away, as long as you are within a reasonable level.hell within 10 levels i would be ok with even tho some one 10 levels lower has almost 0 chance to kill the higher level guy, but in most games that much of a difference its not a complete 1 shot massacre and guy may atleast get away. and i don't wanna see miss miss miss miss if i attack some one a higher level, lower level should just hit for less not miss 99% of his attacks(looking at you L2)
It boils down to the point that FFA OWPvP fits a niche market or in a more common term it doesn't please casual gamers. People who like FFA OWPvP will still play a game without it as long as the PvP is good in general but casual gamers will not play a game with FFA OWPvP cause they will get frustrated and quit.
Personally my problem with FFA OWPvP is that people will generally kill you for no reason other then just to do it and possibly grief you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it unless you happen to have friends online who care enough to help you. This basically says, "Well, you can play this game unless someone else wants to come around and ruin your day." cause other then sitting around and getting killed over and over your only option is to log off and that is a game that I wont pay for. I wouldn't mind a B2P MMO that has FFA OWPvP cause then I ain't losing money when not playing.
I agree. Full PvP everywhere makes many noobs quit even if they in time would have become good players otherwise.
The alternative is the way Lineage had on it's PvE servers. There guilds decared war on eachother and that allowed you to PvP (the other guild had to accept). It actually made pretty great PvP and we had rather large battles with several factions involved. It is a rather smart way to get PvP working on PvE servers, you can still make great war but you can't gank an unwilling noob unless the fool accidently joined the wrong guild.
Then of course there is always room for full PvP servers, but I have no problem with having half the world PvP and other halv PvE on the same server.
I love the free-for-all pvp! The first time I played EVE to me, the best part was the idea of a cut-throat every man for himself space. It dosn't just add freedom I think it adds a layer of depth to the game.
I used to say full FFA PvP everywhere but after seeing how much ganking and griefing such environment produces I would say something in between.
Safe zones some places and FFA PvP in other places. Kinda like Eve but with no PvP at all in safe zones, not just NPC enforced no PvP which can be abused (aka suicide ganking).
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I liked Lineage2's system. I feel it was a bit too punishing on working off karma (the 25x XP on the PTS back in the day made working off karma possible without killing yourself) but other than that the system worked.
I'm so damn sick of faction PvP, I hope it goes away. Everyone said Aion was going to be Lineage3... I wish, stupid factions.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
The way EvE has setup PvP is good. I also enjoyed Shadowbane where they had a newbie island to get your feet wet, and some NPC cities that were safe.
DAoC was great as well. I love the whole Frontier concept. I think it actually relates well to the EvE setup except with factions (realms) instead of FFA. You can play your whole game inside your realm in safety (just like 0.0 sec) but the best exp was to be found out in the Frontier...
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The biggest problem with FFA open world PVP is CC in my opinion. most people get jumped by 2 or 3 guys and seriously have zero chance because 90% of the fight they are standing there like a pinata getting beat on because of CC.
you take away the stupid noob push and button and you cant move CC bullshit and you can have epic battles of guys being able to defend themselfs against multiple people even killing them all if they are skilled enough.
I'm with you on that! Faction-based PvP just takes too much control away from the playerbase.
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
You cannot blame balance on CC. If anything CC favors 1vs3 fights because it allows the 1 person to reduce the 3 people. Honestly one of the more silly things i've seen on these forums in awhile.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
actually yes i can blame it on CC because i have played a game with NO CC and a skilled player could beat 5 people. tell me a game with CC that is possible to do this? you will be standing there " rooted " the whole battle.
Consentual.
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It should be consentual. The way I see it is as this. Games should set up pvp servers. If you want to pvp then pvp, otherwise let the pve folks go on a pve server.
I have a healthy background of Lineage 2 also, so I loved that setup.
The problem sometimes with faction PvP is that some faction people do lame stuff (like Kill Stealing) and you can only watch them helpless as they do it.
In Lineage 2, if someone did this, I'd kill them even if that meant Karma penalty.
same here and yea if someone comes trying takeover your spot you fought to get, or just KSing where you been the last 4 hours or so he gots to get got. thats part of the fun!
I hate that FvF crap that you cant kill the ppl in the same faction. theres alot of Ksers out there and ppl you just wanna kill.
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Well as long as the tutorials area is a "safe island", and new players are spawned in a random, unpopulated area so they cant be spawn camped - or better yet at the point on the map of their choice - then sure, go for it.
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I prefer the DAoC set up. If I wanted to worry about being ganked all the time I would have kept my job at the state prison. FFA does not work mainly due to the casualties of puberty that will grief everyone that comes in. They maybe a minority of the FFA community but they are usually the first people encountered in those type of games. Playing UO and Shadowbane there was not a day that went by when people were not feeding on the newbies. If a gaming community is to survive you have to learn to cut off your own diseased parts.
Eve's is best. It is all consensual in the sense that you know that when you enter low sec or 0.0 you can be blown to bits at any moment, or at least you will learn this very fast. And while technically you can be blown up anywhere in the game, it is much less likey in high sec.
As far as faction based pvp. I do not mind it in the least as long as there is a way to switch factions. I don't beleive that just because you picked a faction years ago at the character creation screen, you should be stuck with it. I remember in early SWG that it was possible to be rebel, imperial, and neutral and switch between them (it may still be like that, I have no idea). I remember starting the game as a rebel, but later switched to the darkside. I enjoy that mechanic. Obviously there needs to be some kind of barrier to keep people switching extremely fast, or all the time, but it should be possible. You could switch factions in Eve with faction warfare, but it just required mission grinding or the like. Just like in real life, sometimes people defect, should be able to in pvp games.
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I like killing people who want to kill me. Ganking is for carebears!
I want a challenge, with the chance to die.
Carebear gankers want to kill in groups when they are safe and can't get the stuffing knocked out of them!
if your out hunting with lets say 2 friends and you see someone you dislike or an enemie of your clan/guild/faction why not kill him if you can challange or not?
It needs to be a mix, really. My personal concept is that the further out in the wilderness you kill people, the less of a "reputation hit" you take. If you have a low enough "rep" (or high enough infamy, I guess), then you are KoS to that faction. So, killing people miles from cities will usually not do much to your reputation (minor damage IF they report it) but murdering someone in a back alley with guards watching will.
If this happens to me in Eve when I'm soloing, then I just get my corp to go hunt them down.
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions