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What happens when your class gets nerfed?...

gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

You change spec and you figure out a different way how to play the game.

 

My main is a warrior whose two primary builds focuses on key skills from Champ, Beastmaster, and Riftblade to smash people's faces in- all of which were HEAVILY nerfed in this alpha patch. Although this isn't the greatest thing ever, its not the end of the world. Frankly, even though I liked being able to kill people using those two builds, I dont ever like being pigeonholed into one different build just because its completely blows other builds out of the water. There is a ton of other viable builds out there, and i am currently planning some new ones out now. Even with this patch, I am very confident that I will be smashing people's faces in and they will continue to cry on the forums. 

 

to be honest I am very happy with how dedicated trion is in trying to balance the game. Sure, they will get it wrong sometimes, since takes balancing an mmo game is an ongoing process, but whats comforting is the fact that they see balancing as a a top priority and are actively trying to fix things/trying to do so as soon as possible.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

Comments

  • Manticore665Manticore665 brooklyn, NYPosts: 3Member

    Well, I try to play through it.

    Currently both my Bard & Sabo specs that i mostly use for pve are being nerfed in about a week.

    I will try to make the best of it since i really enjoy those playstyles.

    Currently enjoying Rift while waiting on Guild Wars 2.

  • SfaliaraSfaliara NV, AZPosts: 438Member

    In other words you switch to fotm.

    Not sure if this is a solution...

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    In other words you switch to fotm.

    Not sure if this is a solution...

    how does, "currently planning out new ones" mean switching to fotm? {mod edit}

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • DruzDruz Dover, NYPosts: 276Member

    The only thing you have to do is be thankful you're not leveling up a mage and get over any changes to your class. There is no reason for mages to suck until level 50, none.

  • dragonbranddragonbrand Long Beach, CAPosts: 412Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    Originally posted by gessekai332

    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    In other words you switch to fotm.

    Not sure if this is a solution...

    how does, "figuring out new and  better combinations" mean switching to fotm?{mod edit}

    {mod edit}

     it is kind of disingenuous to take one sentence out of his/her entire agruement. Especially where he/she stated that he/she doesnt like being pigeon-holed into one kind of build. And where she/he stated that he likes to stick to a build and make it work even if it is the "best" build.

    {mod edit}.

    Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.

    Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
    Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS

  • SfaliaraSfaliara NV, AZPosts: 438Member

    Originally posted by dragonbrand

    Originally posted by Sfaliara


    Originally posted by gessekai332


    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    In other words you switch to fotm.

    Not sure if this is a solution...

    how does, "figuring out new and  better combinations" mean switching to fotm?{mod edit}

    {mod edit}

     it is kind of disingenuous to take one sentence out of his/her entire agruement. Especially where he/she stated that he/she doesnt like being pigeon-holed into one kind of build. And where she/he stated that he likes to stick to a build and make it work even if it is the "best" build.

    {mod edit}

    {mod edit} So the point of all this is if your class gets nerfed switch to the next best build? If I just play what I like then I'm screwed and that's it?

  • LeetheLeethe Posts: 876Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    Originally posted by gessekai332


    Originally posted by Sfaliara {mod edit}

    {mod edit}

    OP: Go with whatever fit your playstyle. I'll be the first to admit that I have only scratched the surface as far as souls are concerned. The good news is that they all seem to be different enpough to make experimenting worthwhile. 

     

    From comments made last night on the forums, most of the 'nerfs' are actually buggs with certain abilities not calculating correctly.

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    Originally posted by dragonbrand


    Originally posted by Sfaliara


    Originally posted by gessekai332


    Originally posted by Sfaliara

    In other words you switch to fotm.

    Not sure if this is a solution...

    how does, "figuring out new and  better combinations" mean switching to fotm? if you are going to troll at least learn how to properly comprehend what you are reading first. 

    No offence, but you are basically switching to the next best build on every nerf patch and you are trying to pass this as a solution?

    Not sure if serious....

     it is kind of disingenuous to take one sentence out of his/her entire agruement. Especially where he/she stated that he/she doesnt like being pigeon-holed into one kind of build. And where she/he stated that he likes to stick to a build and make it work even if it is the "best" build.

    Critique a person on their entire arguement, don't cherry pcik to making your troll post anything more than it is.

    I'm not picking one sentence, I'm simply trying to find the kind of sense you guys are trying to pass but you are not helping either. So the point of all this is if your class gets nerfed switch to the next best build? If I just play what I like then I'm screwed and that's it?

    lets try to make things clearer. what class are you currently playing?

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,124Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Leethe

    Originally posted by Sfaliara


    Originally posted by gessekai332


    Originally posted by Sfaliara {mod edit}

    OP: Go with whatever fit your playstyle. I'll be the first to admit that I have only scratched the surface as far as souls are concerned. The good news is that they all seem to be different enpough to make experimenting worthwhile. 

     

    From comments made last night on the forums, most of the 'nerfs' are actually buggs with certain abilities not calculating correctly.

    what gesse say is the most true, unless they nerf the whole base class, you just change to a new soul who would give you a better result, not much to change here

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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  • TechleoTechleo Grants Pass, ORPosts: 1,984Member

     I guess in rare cases nerfs can kill a class. Most of the time though its just a re-evalution of the class and figuring out what they can do. Its only a matter of time before someone learns to explain new strengths. In the case of Saboteur changes, I dont mind. A drop in range isn't that lethal in pvp since I fire On my person. IE, I fire at myself when a ton of people get near. Works great being a Kamikazee. Even if they halfed dmg , Ill be helpful.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    The nerfs have very, very little to do with balance. There are many builds that are arguably much stronger than average that are not being nerfed.

    What they are killing are the effective builds that allow people to do things with Roles (Basic Class Archetypes) that they can't do in most other MMOs. They are nerfing Warriors with DoTs, Warriors with Ranged DPS, Warriors with Pet DPS, Rogues who can Tank, Rogues who can Heal and Mages who can heal. NOT because the builds are overpowered, but because too many people didn't like other classes doing what they think should be reserved for their Class.

    If you look at my summary, you can also see how poor design, in part, has led to this. Warriors had the most versatility, Rogues came next, then Mages in third. (I left Priests out of this, probably for the same reason Priest Souls are mostly un-nerfed. Not because there isn't versatility for Priests to do things off role, but because it's a somewhat underpowered and definitely underplayed role).

    If they had offered equal versatility for all roles, maybe people would have been willing to adjust to the new freedom, rather than complain about it.

    Trion is showing that they have no commitment to their own game design. Critics claimed the Soul system didn't really offer much choice or variety. Well, it actually did, but now Trion seems determined to make changes to prove the critics correct. In the process, they will kill what actually sets the game most apart from other MMORPGs.

    A lot of nay sayers who failed as critics, may actually end up proving themselves as prophets.

    (BTW, anyone else flummoxed by Trion almost pulling an NGE on a new, successful game)?

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common

    Originally posted by fiontar

    The nerfs have very, very little to do with balance. There are many builds that are arguably much stronger than average that are not being nerfed.

    What they are killing are the effective builds that allow people to do things with Roles (Basic Class Archetypes) that they can't do in most other MMOs. They are nerfing Warriors with DoTs, Warriors with Ranged DPS, Warriors with Pet DPS, Rogues who can Tank, Rogues who can Heal and Mages who can heal. NOT because the builds are overpowered, but because too many people didn't like other classes doing what they think should be reserved for their Class.

    If you look at my summary, you can also see how poor design, in part, has led to this. Warriors had the most versatility, Rogues came next, then Mages in third. (I left Priests out of this, probably for the same reason Priest Souls are mostly un-nerfed. Not because there isn't versatility for Priests to do things off role, but because it's a somewhat underpowered and definitely underplayed role).

    If they had offered equal versatility for all roles, maybe people would have been willing to adjust to the new freedom, rather than complain about it.

    Trion is showing that they have no commitment to their own game design. Critics claimed the Soul system didn't really offer much choice or variety. Well, it actually did, but now Trion seems determined to make changes to prove the critics correct. In the process, they will kill what actually sets the game most apart from other MMORPGs.

    A lot of nay sayers who failed as critics, may actually end up proving themselves as prophets.

    (BTW, anyone else flummoxed by Trion almost pulling an NGE on a new, successful game)?

     

    i dont know about you, but the nerfs that concerned my class had very much to do with fixing bugs and toning done skills that are OP, and not to force them into specific roles. The nerf to BM is to prevent other primary roles from abusing its lower tier talents (ex. champs using backhanded blow in their one-button faceroll macro), and are not so much pet related. BM as it is now, is not really an effective pet class as it is a dmg buffing support spec.

    RB is still an extremely interesting class as it can silence, root, teleport, and can do some crazy elemental damage. he is still very much a "magic warrior." even from the beginning i thought it was kinda silly that their ranged attack always outdamaged their melee attack (which should be more powerful because its harder to get close to someone) and knew the nerf was going to come eventually. If you think about it rationally, it shouldnt be right that I can wear a shield and armor and not even wear a weapon (since nothing affects flamespear dmg) and still toast classes specifically meant for ranged damage and have to wear cloth armor. i will agree with you that ranged dmg is too low for dungeon pve for RB, but its still viable for PVP(not your bread and butter anymore, but you can still kill people off at range with it).

    Right now its still too early to jump to conclusions and say that theyre are forcing classes into their stereotypical roles. to my eyes, its a lot of bug fixing. I'm pretty sure you will still see mages and rogues healing and rogues tanking after this patch. What they are doing right now are attempting to fix builds that are too powerful that people feel like they will be forced to play them because all the other build combinations are nowhere near as strong. For example, from lvl 1-40 I was forced to play RB/paladin in pvp and pve because it was just THAT good. no one could ever gank me and i could frequently kill groups of 2 people playing together (1 cleric+1 dps class). I could also do insane dps in pve. Being forced to play a weird ranged dps warrior and not having the option of playing a traditional melee warrior is not versatality at all.

    one more thing important thing i might add. Priest tanks are not underpowered AT ALL. one of the best tanks i know is a priest, he just tanked a weekly lvl 50 raid boss a couple of days for my pug. i would gladly pick him for any t1or t2 expert dungeon for my group.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by gessekai332

    Originally posted by fiontar

    The nerfs have very, very little to do with balance. There are many builds that are arguably much stronger than average that are not being nerfed.

    What they are killing are the effective builds that allow people to do things with Roles (Basic Class Archetypes) that they can't do in most other MMOs. They are nerfing Warriors with DoTs, Warriors with Ranged DPS, Warriors with Pet DPS, Rogues who can Tank, Rogues who can Heal and Mages who can heal. NOT because the builds are overpowered, but because too many people didn't like other classes doing what they think should be reserved for their Class.

    If you look at my summary, you can also see how poor design, in part, has led to this. Warriors had the most versatility, Rogues came next, then Mages in third. (I left Priests out of this, probably for the same reason Priest Souls are mostly un-nerfed. Not because there isn't versatility for Priests to do things off role, but because it's a somewhat underpowered and definitely underplayed role).

    If they had offered equal versatility for all roles, maybe people would have been willing to adjust to the new freedom, rather than complain about it.

    Trion is showing that they have no commitment to their own game design. Critics claimed the Soul system didn't really offer much choice or variety. Well, it actually did, but now Trion seems determined to make changes to prove the critics correct. In the process, they will kill what actually sets the game most apart from other MMORPGs.

    A lot of nay sayers who failed as critics, may actually end up proving themselves as prophets.

    (BTW, anyone else flummoxed by Trion almost pulling an NGE on a new, successful game)?

     

    i dont know about you, but the nerfs that concerned my class had very much to do with fixing bugs and toning done skills that are OP, and not to force them into specific roles. The nerf to BM is to prevent other primary roles from abusing its lower tier talents (ex. champs using backhanded blow in their one-button faceroll macro), and are not so much pet related. BM as it is now, is not really an effective pet class as it is a dmg buffing support spec.

    RB is still an extremely interesting class as it can silence, root, teleport, and can do some crazy elemental damage. he is still very much a "magic warrior." even from the beginning i thought it was kinda silly that their ranged attack always outdamaged their melee attack (which should be more powerful because its harder to get close to someone) and knew the nerf was going to come eventually. If you think about it rationally, it shouldnt be right that I can wear a shield and armor and not even wear a weapon (since nothing affects flamespear dmg) and still toast classes specifically meant for ranged damage and have to wear cloth armor. i will agree with you that ranged dmg is too low for dungeon pve for RB, but its still viable for PVP(not your bread and butter anymore, but you can still kill people off at range with it).

    Right now its still too early to jump to conclusions and say that theyre are forcing classes into their stereotypical roles. to my eyes, its a lot of bug fixing. I'm pretty sure you will still see mages and rogues healing and rogues tanking after this patch. What they are doing right now are attempting to fix builds that are too powerful that people feel like they will be forced to play them because all the other build combinations are nowhere near as strong. For example, from lvl 1-40 I was forced to play RB/paladin in pvp and pve because it was just THAT good. no one could ever gank me and i could frequently kill groups of 2 people playing together (1 cleric+1 dps class). I could also do insane dps in pve. Being forced to play a weird ranged dps warrior and not having the option of playing a traditional melee warrior is not versatality at all.

    one more thing important thing i might add. Priest tanks are not underpowered AT ALL. one of the best tanks i know is a priest, he just tanked a weekly lvl 50 raid boss a couple of days for my pug. i would gladly pick him for any t1or t2 expert dungeon for my group.

     Some of us are worried due to the amount of forum support for that showed up against bards and chloro.. they were applauding the nerfs because "clerics should be the best healers".

     

    That worries me.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    The switch from 10 man healing to 5 man healing AoE heals are hardly nerfs. In terms fo raid content they effectively open double the spots that currently chloros and bards could effectively occupy. Chloros will still be the best healers in game even after the changes and bards the best AoE healers/buffers.

    The changes to warrior specs were needed. Anyone who couldn't forsee that the class that could do 20-30% more damage than any other class would be toned down, was self blind really.

    I think the probable measurement of balance are right now clerics (and not priests, hehe). They are decent in anything they do but not exceptional in anything. They can pretty much do everything, but they are average in all. In terms of tanking, they have no issues other than the initial pull lacking an AoE aggro tool. That means that healers that do HoT damage need to be weary until the aggro is established.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    You don't see the headache rifts will be now with the changes to Bard and Chloro heals? You can't even get the random Leader of the Public Raid to boot linkdead players 90% of the time. Good luck getting them to re-arrange healers to ensure everyone can get heals.

    It's also going to put a lot more burden on Clerics, who can no longer count on a Bard or Chloro to keep non-priority healing targets topped off.

    Trickle healing is the utility that Bards and Chloros provide. Cut the number of friendlies they heal in half, with out doubling the amount they heal each target and it's an extremely major nerf. Of course, doubling healing would make them too strong as healers for 5 mans or smaller, which is why they would have just left them alone, unless the goal was to nerf them out of the game.

    Same thing with Reavers. Some are saying that they have seen a Riftblade/Reaver solo AoE 10 mobs at once. Which, to me, is a big exaggeration. However, let's say it was true and Trion just wanted to cut down on the number they could AoE at once. They could have limited to DoTs to three mobs at a time. This also limits the HoT to three mobs at a time. Grisly Works vs. 3 mobs is not overpowered either, so no need to change that at all. However, instead, they are nerfing the soul to make self healing through any AoE non-viable. Champion builds can already handle as many mobs and kill them a lot more quickly, but they also have to sit and drink after every set, in order to recover health.

    Trion is nerfing self healing for Warriors, the same way they nerfed self healing for Rogue Riftstakers. They want to kill self healing rogue and warrior builds entirely.

    Add in the fact that some arguably overpowered builds that fit the traditional type for each calling are getting some dangerous buffs and I think I have a lot of support for my case.

    They chickened out on giving players variety and the ability to build their own class, with out forcing traditional MMO roles for each Archetype. It won't be long before each Calling is back in a narrow little box, half of all souls in the game offering little of value and Rift losing it's biggest selling point.

    Frustrating for us jaded vets of the genre. Even if a group of developers manages to have something good at launch, (against all odds), they will still find away to kill the goose that laid that golden egg. They then will scratch their heads and wonder where their supply of gold went.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • inBOILinBOIL turkuPosts: 669Member

    "to be honest I am very happy with how dedicated trion is in trying to balance the game"

     

    believe this,they wrote last balance™ notes looong time,maybe year  ago,and they allready hava  balance™ notes planned for many months to come  allready.

    its nothing about balancing the game,wow was good at this same trick,and these guys are taking it to another level,maybe weekly balances™ ?

    Generation P

  • RudedawgCDNRudedawgCDN Vancouver, BCPosts: 485Member Common

    I'll be cancelling my sub and looking for a new game.

    imo the game is becoming more and more like wow.

    I only played rift because of the interesting soul combinations and being able to play any "role" I wanted.

    The nerfs have taken away my reason for playing.

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