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  • sirsammy33sirsammy33 richwood, OHPosts: 64Member

    im on there as tibit ..  send a msg anytime

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Oh lord this thread... It's hard to know where to begin to be honest.

     

    First up we have site representatives saying that they are not 'bloggers' but professional journalists whilst at the same time defending their articles as 'only their opinion'. Not being funny but there are many erudite, highly literate bloggers out there who go to all the conventions as well. What seperates them from the 'professionals' (aside from a salary) is the fact that the latter are supposed to have a somewhat informative, considered and neutral viewpoint. If the writers here don't realise that (stupidly) many people on the site look to their reviews and articles for some information above and beyond some nicely dressed up  'zomg I luvz it 9.9/10...but I haz no ideaz if it will tankz in a week' then I have to question whether they are not spending too much time ig and they have a severe disconnect with reality.

     

    Saying 'it's just their opinion dude' is a fine defense if we are talking about a random blogger or player review, it is a trite line of defense for a supposedly professional review. No we don't expect them to go all Mystic Meg and see into the future, but it isn't that hard to make an educated guess based on a companies history and current bugs in the game they are reviewing..

     

    Secondly we have someone who thinks the game is great..but doesn't play it. Who also thinks that a massive decline in subs and the need for server mergers in a subscription based game (i.e. a game that's meant to have longevity) does not point to the game having issues..

     

    I'm sorry but 8/10 for a single player/offline game that only holds your attention for a week is fine, 8/10 for a game that is meant to last more than a month is fucking ridiculous. It's doesn't matter if it has the greatest combat system ever seen or the most amazing graphics. It's a sub based mmo, not a one hit offline game, wake up and smell the roses ffs.

     

    How about I give MO 10/10 because it handles nudity better than any other game, it's bugged to fuck, the servers are never online and only about 5 people play it but that doesn't mean it's not the 'bestest game evah 10/10 plox'. You see that may well be the opinion of an ardent (and deluded) fanboi but for a professional reviewer? For anyone who wants to make a case for a game whilst keeping a straight face? I think not and I find it flabbergasting that people seem to think otherwise.

    /thread

    My issue with Bill's review was his giddy, school gril enthusiasm for the game, both in the review and in several articles he did prior to that.  It just came across as unprofessional and made his review not credible to me.  I played DCU and it was nowhere near an 8.  Maybe, being generous, a 6 at most.  Its great that he had fun mashing buttons, but this is an MMO that had to be evaluated on being an MMO, not just a "game".  Bill, IMO, failed to do that and thats why he's taking heat.  To put it in a brutaly honest way, it was simply a piss poor review, something I would have expected from some random dude on the internet, not someone doing a professional review.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    My issue with Bill's review was his giddy, school gril enthusiasm for the game, both in the review and in several articles he did prior to that.  It just came across as unprofessional and made his review not credible to me.  I played DCU and it was nowhere near an 8.  Maybe, being generous, a 6 at most.  Its great that he had fun mashing buttons, but this is an MMO that had to be evaluated on being an MMO, not just a "game".  Bill, IMO, failed to do that and thats why he's taking heat.  To put it in a brutaly honest way, it was simply a piss poor review, something I would have expected from some random dude on the internet, not someone doing a professional review.

    Well, a lot of gaming magazines and sites gave DCUO high grades AND a lot of actual players - players like you and me - gave DCUO high grades, so Bill wasn't alone in his view about DCUO. In fact, the majority of professional reviewers and players of the game felt the same, they liked DCUO and had fun with it.

    You might fault Bill for giving a review that you don't agree with and saying he wasn't objective bc of his 'giddy enthusiasm':  but according to you all those professional reviewers and players were giving DCUO a 'piss poor' review, was all their high grades  'giddy enthusiasm' too?

     

    As for evaluating DCUO as an MMO: if an MMO offers 60-100 hours of solid, enjoyable content before the repetitiveness and the lack of varied endgame content becomes prevalent, then it's hard to review an MMORPG for the value it'll give in the longterm. So a review will reflect upon how someone feels about the gameplay of a game in the first 50 hours or so.

     

    Personally, I think an MMORPG review should be given in 2 stages: first the initial-impressions 'launch review', that talks about the gameplay and issues the reviewer encounters in the first 50-80 hours - usually the leveling experience and gameplay content encountered while leveling. And then after a month or two a final review, that focuses on the longterm value of an MMORPG and its overall content it offers, including the endgame content and longterm entertainment options.

     

    The second would bring to light whether there are content gaps while leveling, whether it becomes a grind or whether the content is relatively little before reaching level cap, and how varied the options for gaming fun are at that stage.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • MykellMykell MackayPosts: 618Member Uncommon

    I wonder if the people complaining so much here even read Bill's review. It's pretty spot on imo. The only reason i'm not still playing is lack of content and there monthly updates aren't as big as i had hoped. I've got close to 300 hours in the game and it was well worth the money.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/reviews/load/132/page/3

    Wrapping Up

    As stated at the outset, DCUO is most definitely a game that will divide MMO players.  Some will adore it for what it sets out to do, and others will deplore it for what it does not do.  Some will decry its lack of crafting, while others will spend hours scouring Metropolis for the game’s collections.  Some will be happy for the brisk leveling pace and rise to end-game, while others will cry foul and say there’s not enough meat to chew.  The reality, in this reviewer’s opinion, is that DC Universe Online is an exceedingly fun game held back from greatness by only a handful of extremely annoying neglects.  Where it triumphs, it does so with grand aplomb.  When it fails, it crashes with a resonating thud.  I struggled with assigning a score to the game, because some of its flaws are absolutely enraging.  But ultimately, the fun of the title still outweighs the missteps for me.  SOE’s latest effort is absolutely one of the most entertaining MMOs to come out in years.  I haven’t had this much fun in an online game in I can’t remember how long. DCUO is a great way to start a release-packed 2011 and is only going to get better with age.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 GBGPosts: 1,155Member

    If DCU got such a good score why arent people playing the game? Or maybe its just developers that voted? 

    Was looking for a trial for the game, could not find any. So I bought the game played it for 3 days then I stoped, due to boredom.

  • SpytedSpyted Calverton, NottinghamPosts: 108Member

    Originally posted by Mykell

    I wonder if the people complaining so much here even read Bill's review. It's pretty spot on imo. The only reason i'm not still playing is lack of content and there monthly updates aren't as big as i had hoped. I've got close to 300 hours in the game and it was well worth the money.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/reviews/load/132/page/3

    Wrapping Up

    As stated at the outset, DCUO is most definitely a game that will divide MMO players.  Some will adore it for what it sets out to do, and others will deplore it for what it does not do.  Some will decry its lack of crafting, while others will spend hours scouring Metropolis for the game’s collections.  Some will be happy for the brisk leveling pace and rise to end-game, while others will cry foul and say there’s not enough meat to chew.  The reality, in this reviewer’s opinion, is that DC Universe Online is an exceedingly fun game held back from greatness by only a handful of extremely annoying neglects.  Where it triumphs, it does so with grand aplomb.  When it fails, it crashes with a resonating thud.  I struggled with assigning a score to the game, because some of its flaws are absolutely enraging.  But ultimately, the fun of the title still outweighs the missteps for me.  SOE’s latest effort is absolutely one of the most entertaining MMOs to come out in years.  I haven’t had this much fun in an online game in I can’t remember how long. DCUO is a great way to start a release-packed 2011 and is only going to get better with age.

     This is it in a nutshell...if DCUO was just more of the same its relative score would be easy to assess...but its different, its not directly comparable in the traditional sense but it does break more than a few moulds and has a creativity and conviction that really elevate aspects that would otherwise be a problem. The content shortage is something shared by all recent releases, the grind aspect is shared with all mmo's young and old, but the involving combat and immersive gameworld that consume 75% of your time are rare if not unique...hence the ability to overshadow some of the game's issues. Any score is based on the balance of good and bad, but that is modified by what a person feels is most influential to the experience and that is personal and subjective to everyone.

    All reviews of creative material such as books, films, Shows and games are opinions, its naive to suggest otherwise as the massive weight of evidence in internet sites, magazines, review shows and newspapers all clearly demonstrate. But the score is less important than the justification behind it and this is open and honest in the most real and applaudable sense.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by patrikd23

    If DCU got such a good score why arent people playing the game? Or maybe its just developers that voted? 

    Was looking for a trial for the game, could not find any. So I bought the game played it for 3 days then I stoped, due to boredom.

    Because the people who voted high for this game are short sighted. They look at the exciting combat and sparkling GFX and think it is awesome. They dont realise the minimal content this game offers and does not rate the game based on that but rather what they see in their first week of playing the game.

    For single player, one time pay, games that is ok but for MMORPG you need to have a longer perspective. I predicted this game to fail back before it was released due to the extremely fast leveling and thin content and lo and behold...

  • ButtskiButtski NilPosts: 185Member Uncommon

    dcu was one of the best mmos i started the last 2 years. and the worst...

    i left after playing it like a tard for a month because sony didnt fix any pvp-exploit and the exploiter/cheater were still there. they don't give a shit about the community.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    Originally posted by Spyted

    Originally posted by therain93


    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by therain93


     

    I don't believe that SOE has made back $50 million in box sales, sorry.  Even if we're generous and say that SOE sold 1 million boxes, they only get a small portion of revenue from retail sales (at least boxes, which is a good portion of PC and all of the ps3), not the entire $30-$40-$50-$60 that gets charged to the customer.

    Also, why are we rehashing parts of these conversations? We've gone over the litany of bad design decisions, bugs, and lack of content ad nauseum.  On the flip side, I do like the OP's question of why the press isn't talking about this more.  Where is Bill, since he was so gung-ho on the game?  Moved on to the next game already, too?

    Yeah I have asked that before as well. As mmorpg.com was so positive about this game, where are their articles now that the servers are barren?

     Simply a case of dammed if you do dammed if you don't, if an article arrived saying how much fun they were still having playing DCUO they the same few people would leap in and criticise the writer for being biassed or on the payroll. Indeed we have already seen such responses, not just here but also over on IGN when they admitted they were still playing, analyse this very post and the core is contradictory - why talk over old stuff, then why aren't the press talking over more old stuff etc.

    The internet, by its nature, is excessively contentious, people give less respect or consideration to others by virtue of the diminished responsibility and anonimity it brings - here we see some presumed 'success is suddenly equatable to quality', its facically stupid and invalid as any simple example can be offered to the contrary but backed by assumed nd made up facts it can sound incredibly persuasive....or can it ^^

    Your response is disappointing, yet not surprising.

    I'm in agreement that if  mmorpg.com did put out another article saying how "much fun they were having", they would be slammed.  We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check.  Rather than hide behind "damned if you do, damned if you don't", why not ask the "press" to stand up for their statements?  Some of us posters in the community had identified issues with the game and why they're problematic; it's not worthwhile for "us" to talk about it again and again.  What we're looking to read about is what the "press", the seemingly Yes-men, have not talked about yet.

    The sad thing is, if the "press" had actually tried to hold SOE accountable by calling out these issues, maybe, just maybe so many people would not have DCUO coasters right now.

    And your response is a perfect example of the problem "We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check." You aren't interested in their opnion at all UNLESS it happens to coincide with your own - reality isn't your subjective province.....yet that is literally what you are saying here, they stood up for what they percieved as a fair representation of the rating and placed it on the website, they rated the experience as a whole after seeing the same game and build you did. You don't want them spewing articles out if there is nothing to say, and little has changed....they have obliged.

    As and when and they re-review it - usually after 6 months as far as I can tell you might be happy to see it drop, but they are quite entitled to lift the score as much as decrease it - opinions are not facts, not theirs, not mine not yours and its doing disservice to the vast majority of players to presume they brought the game soley on the info from one review, life just ain't that simple or superficial.

    Don't presume you know me, or what I am interested in because you don't.  Many of us here can make the distinction between opinion, critical evaluation, and facts/reality -- you're clearly struggling with this though and spinning stuff.  All I see is you adding a lot of words to my post that aren't there, really just random speculatory fluff, for whatever your agenda is.... 

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

     

     


    Originally posted by Ryukan



    This just goes to show that MMO's should not be reviewed at all until after the first month at least. Played this game on a buddy key and it got old after a week of moderate playing. Never did I feel this game warranted a 8 out of 10...felt more like 6/10.

     

     

    It was reviewed after the first month, and I still gave it an 8. I'd still give it an 8 now. Why? Again, because reviews are opinion.

    I smell a column cooking...

    I have to leave my day job now, but I really want to stress that I've enjoyed this conversation today. I mean that wholeheartedly. I'm trying my best to convey to those who don't understand WHY I gave DCUO a B rating. But what it boils down to is purely opinion. I'll be writing up my own "Review Process/Manifesto/Yakkity-yak for this week's column. I hope that it will be enough for me to point to in the future on how I review games, and why they get the scores they do. I can't promise it'll make you agree with me, but maybe it'll help you understand my vantage point.

    Cheers!

    Yeah, that's one of the funny disconnects -- it seems like people didn't realize how much you played it before release and after.  You already level-capped a villain by the time you wrote that review....less than 3 weeks...... / ' :

    I do want to give you (and Jon) props for coming back in to respond to this thread.  Ultimately, I think there are some ideological differences that your team has with some of the more critical posters in this thread (like myself) and the release of DCUO has become the focal point of it.  Please don't take any of it personally. ( ' :

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

     

     


    Originally posted by Ryukan



    This just goes to show that MMO's should not be reviewed at all until after the first month at least. Played this game on a buddy key and it got old after a week of moderate playing. Never did I feel this game warranted a 8 out of 10...felt more like 6/10.

     

    It was reviewed after the first month, and I still gave it an 8. I'd still give it an 8 now. Why? Again, because reviews are opinion.

    I smell a column cooking...

    I have to leave my day job now, but I really want to stress that I've enjoyed this conversation today. I mean that wholeheartedly. I'm trying my best to convey to those who don't understand WHY I gave DCUO a B rating. But what it boils down to is purely opinion. I'll be writing up my own "Review Process/Manifesto/Yakkity-yak for this week's column. I hope that it will be enough for me to point to in the future on how I review games, and why they get the scores they do. I can't promise it'll make you agree with me, but maybe it'll help you understand my vantage point.

    Cheers!

    Here's a question to focus on for your future column: Do you review it just as a video game, i.e.simply is it fun to play? Or do you review it as an MMORPG in which the various factors of MMORPG's are taken into account (mmo specific ui, playability over time,  community, end-game, rp, immersion, etc...)  Because a video game can be a blast to play but a horrible MMO.

  • therain93therain93 Winthrop, MAPosts: 2,039Member

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Mykell

    I wonder if the people complaining so much here even read Bill's review. It's pretty spot on imo. The only reason i'm not still playing is lack of content and there monthly updates aren't as big as i had hoped. I've got close to 300 hours in the game and it was well worth the money.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/reviews/load/132/page/3

    Wrapping Up

    As stated at the outset, DCUO is most definitely a game that will divide MMO players.  Some will adore it for what it sets out to do, and others will deplore it for what it does not do.  Some will decry its lack of crafting, while others will spend hours scouring Metropolis for the game’s collections.  Some will be happy for the brisk leveling pace and rise to end-game, while others will cry foul and say there’s not enough meat to chew.  The reality, in this reviewer’s opinion, is that DC Universe Online is an exceedingly fun game held back from greatness by only a handful of extremely annoying neglects.  Where it triumphs, it does so with grand aplomb.  When it fails, it crashes with a resonating thud.  I struggled with assigning a score to the game, because some of its flaws are absolutely enraging.  But ultimately, the fun of the title still outweighs the missteps for me.  SOE’s latest effort is absolutely one of the most entertaining MMOs to come out in years.  I haven’t had this much fun in an online game in I can’t remember how long. DCUO is a great way to start a release-packed 2011 and is only going to get better with age.

    You dont score an MMORPG 8 (Great) if the game is so shallow that within a couple of months 75% of the initial population has left. That is a huge drop after only two months and it shows that this game was just a quick money grab, just as many critics said (but were dismissed as trolls).

    One would think that if Bill could level-cap a villain by the time he wrote his review (less than 3 weeks after release), that it would send up some sort of red flag about how little content there was.  And falling back on the notion of "promised monthly content" to fill the gaps is simply preposterous -- generating ongoing new content is the biggest challenge every developer faces. You don't need a super, critical eye to realize people would burn through it far faster than other mmo's -- just common sense.  That the "press" (not just mmorpg.com, but many reviews) did not focus on this was (and still is) truly a disservice to all consumers (and likely a lof of them if Smedley could claim it was the fastest selling SOE game ever).

  • Shadows59Shadows59 Frazer, MTPosts: 47Member

    I was so hoping that this game would be worth playing since I like to mix things up with my gaming but it seems that the other superhero games have more going on than dcuo. While CO is is cartoony COH is better and has nore going on with the population although I don't really like having all instanced content. Not sure if it is because it is older but then EQ is older and suffers from many issues as well. Maybe it is just an SOE thing? SO glad I didn't put any money down on this game yet. Looks like I will have to wait for my alternative to sword/sorcery mmo fix.

    image
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by therain93

    You dont score an MMORPG 8 (Great) if the game is so shallow that within a couple of months 75% of the initial population has left. That is a huge drop after only two months and it shows that this game was just a quick money grab, just as many critics said (but were dismissed as trolls).

    One would think that if Bill could level-cap a villain by the time he wrote his review (less than 3 weeks after release), that it would send up some sort of red flag about how little content there was.  And falling back on the notion of "promised monthly content" to fill the gaps is simply preposterous -- generating ongoing new content is the biggest challenge every developer faces. You don't need a super, critical eye to realize people would burn through it far faster than other mmo's -- just common sense.  That the "press" (not just mmorpg.com, but many reviews) did not focus on this was (and still is) truly a disservice to all consumers (and likely a lof of them if Smedley could claim it was the fastest selling SOE game ever).

    Well the metacritic score is 72 which translates to mixed or average score and I dont think this game deserves better than that. Personally, for an MMORPG, I would give it below average as the game has virtually zero longetivity but still does has some innovative elements such as the combat.

    In any case, scoring this game as GREAT, shows to me as an inexperienced MMORPG reviewer. One that looks at only the first impression and does not take a critical approach about the viability of this game as a subscriber.

  • SpytedSpyted Calverton, NottinghamPosts: 108Member

    Originally posted by therain93

    Originally posted by Spyted

    Originally posted by therain93

    Originally posted by Spyted

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by therain93

     

    I don't believe that SOE has made back $50 million in box sales, sorry.  Even if we're generous and say that SOE sold 1 million boxes, they only get a small portion of revenue from retail sales (at least boxes, which is a good portion of PC and all of the ps3), not the entire $30-$40-$50-$60 that gets charged to the customer.

    Also, why are we rehashing parts of these conversations? We've gone over the litany of bad design decisions, bugs, and lack of content ad nauseum.  On the flip side, I do like the OP's question of why the press isn't talking about this more.  Where is Bill, since he was so gung-ho on the game?  Moved on to the next game already, too?

    Yeah I have asked that before as well. As mmorpg.com was so positive about this game, where are their articles now that the servers are barren?

     Simply a case of dammed if you do dammed if you don't, if an article arrived saying how much fun they were still having playing DCUO they the same few people would leap in and criticise the writer for being biassed or on the payroll. Indeed we have already seen such responses, not just here but also over on IGN when they admitted they were still playing, analyse this very post and the core is contradictory - why talk over old stuff, then why aren't the press talking over more old stuff etc.

    The internet, by its nature, is excessively contentious, people give less respect or consideration to others by virtue of the diminished responsibility and anonimity it brings - here we see some presumed 'success is suddenly equatable to quality', its facically stupid and invalid as any simple example can be offered to the contrary but backed by assumed nd made up facts it can sound incredibly persuasive....or can it ^^

    Your response is disappointing, yet not surprising.

    I'm in agreement that if  mmorpg.com did put out another article saying how "much fun they were having", they would be slammed.  We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check.  Rather than hide behind "damned if you do, damned if you don't", why not ask the "press" to stand up for their statements?  Some of us posters in the community had identified issues with the game and why they're problematic; it's not worthwhile for "us" to talk about it again and again.  What we're looking to read about is what the "press", the seemingly Yes-men, have not talked about yet.

    The sad thing is, if the "press" had actually tried to hold SOE accountable by calling out these issues, maybe, just maybe so many people would not have DCUO coasters right now.

    And your response is a perfect example of the problem "We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check." You aren't interested in their opnion at all UNLESS it happens to coincide with your own - reality isn't your subjective province.....yet that is literally what you are saying here, they stood up for what they percieved as a fair representation of the rating and placed it on the website, they rated the experience as a whole after seeing the same game and build you did. You don't want them spewing articles out if there is nothing to say, and little has changed....they have obliged.

    As and when and they re-review it - usually after 6 months as far as I can tell you might be happy to see it drop, but they are quite entitled to lift the score as much as decrease it - opinions are not facts, not theirs, not mine not yours and its doing disservice to the vast majority of players to presume they brought the game soley on the info from one review, life just ain't that simple or superficial.

    Don't presume you know me, or what I am interested in because you don't.  Many of us here can make the distinction between opinion, critical evaluation, and facts/reality -- you're clearly struggling with this though and spinning stuff.  All I see is you adding a lot of words to my post that aren't there, really just random speculatory fluff, for whatever your agenda is.... 

     I honestly don't have any agenda and I apologise if my post is in any way personalised or harsh. The distinction between opinion, critical evaluation and fact is the real point I was hoping to make. While many do grasp the differences there are still clearly some who do not...maybe I am one but doesn't that simply prove the point? Bill's review was honestly qualified as biased by his opnion, the accusation that he like others had quietly departed has been proven inaccurate, he is still playing and enjoying the game and so are some others - for them there is no call for a reality check because their reality has not changed from the one previously stated, for others the need for a reality check, as given by someone else, is questionable since they are already assured as to what it should say.

  • TheFurTheFur Milliken, COPosts: 96Member

    Originally posted by Spyted

    Originally posted by therain93


    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by therain93


    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by therain93


     

    I don't believe that SOE has made back $50 million in box sales, sorry.  Even if we're generous and say that SOE sold 1 million boxes, they only get a small portion of revenue from retail sales (at least boxes, which is a good portion of PC and all of the ps3), not the entire $30-$40-$50-$60 that gets charged to the customer.

    Also, why are we rehashing parts of these conversations? We've gone over the litany of bad design decisions, bugs, and lack of content ad nauseum.  On the flip side, I do like the OP's question of why the press isn't talking about this more.  Where is Bill, since he was so gung-ho on the game?  Moved on to the next game already, too?

    Yeah I have asked that before as well. As mmorpg.com was so positive about this game, where are their articles now that the servers are barren?

     Simply a case of dammed if you do dammed if you don't, if an article arrived saying how much fun they were still having playing DCUO they the same few people would leap in and criticise the writer for being biassed or on the payroll. Indeed we have already seen such responses, not just here but also over on IGN when they admitted they were still playing, analyse this very post and the core is contradictory - why talk over old stuff, then why aren't the press talking over more old stuff etc.

    The internet, by its nature, is excessively contentious, people give less respect or consideration to others by virtue of the diminished responsibility and anonimity it brings - here we see some presumed 'success is suddenly equatable to quality', its facically stupid and invalid as any simple example can be offered to the contrary but backed by assumed nd made up facts it can sound incredibly persuasive....or can it ^^

    Your response is disappointing, yet not surprising.

    I'm in agreement that if  mmorpg.com did put out another article saying how "much fun they were having", they would be slammed.  We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check.  Rather than hide behind "damned if you do, damned if you don't", why not ask the "press" to stand up for their statements?  Some of us posters in the community had identified issues with the game and why they're problematic; it's not worthwhile for "us" to talk about it again and again.  What we're looking to read about is what the "press", the seemingly Yes-men, have not talked about yet.

    The sad thing is, if the "press" had actually tried to hold SOE accountable by calling out these issues, maybe, just maybe so many people would not have DCUO coasters right now.

    And your response is a perfect example of the problem "We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check." You aren't interested in their opnion at all UNLESS it happens to coincide with your own - reality isn't your subjective province.....yet that is literally what you are saying here, they stood up for what they percieved as a fair representation of the rating and placed it on the website, they rated the experience as a whole after seeing the same game and build you did. You don't want them spewing articles out if there is nothing to say, and little has changed....they have obliged.

    As and when and they re-review it - usually after 6 months as far as I can tell you might be happy to see it drop, but they are quite entitled to lift the score as much as decrease it - opinions are not facts, not theirs, not mine not yours and its doing disservice to the vast majority of players to presume they brought the game soley on the info from one review, life just ain't that simple or superficial.

    Don't presume you know me, or what I am interested in because you don't.  Many of us here can make the distinction between opinion, critical evaluation, and facts/reality -- you're clearly struggling with this though and spinning stuff.  All I see is you adding a lot of words to my post that aren't there, really just random speculatory fluff, for whatever your agenda is.... 

     I honestly don't have any agenda and I apologise if my post is in any way personalised or harsh. The distinction between opinion, critical evaluation and fact is the real point I was hoping to make. While many do grasp the differences there are still clearly some who do not...maybe I am one but doesn't that simply prove the point? Bill's review was honestly qualified as biased by his opnion, the accusation that he like others had quietly departed has been proven inaccurate, he is still playing and enjoying the game and so are some others - for them there is no call for a reality check because their reality has not changed from the one previously stated, for others the need for a reality check, as given by someone else, is questionable since they are already assured as to what it should say.

    Here is the crux of the matter. A reviewer has certain responsibilities to those who read their reviews. If you find that their reviews are inaccurate or lacking in vital info, they loose credibility with you, the readers. Credibility is what seperates sucessful  reviewers from the hacks.  Being a good/successful reviewer is hard, and they must evaluate even their own reviews to see if it was fair and balanced.

    On the other hand, if you want to be a blogger or opinion writer, that is easy. Spew out of your keyboard whatever you like. You don't have to be fair, hell you don't have to be right to state your opinion. But be warned that the facts may come back to bite you in the ass over your opinion. Stating that "reviews are opinions" is a completely wrong and shows that those stating that don't know the difference between the two. And if a reviewer claims that his or her reviews are "just their opinions" doesn't know the difference either.... 

    image

  • StraddenStradden Managing Editor Halifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

    Originally posted by TheFur

    On the other hand, if you want to be a blogger or opinion writer, that is easy. Spew out of your keyboard whatever you like. You don't have to be fair, hell you don't have to be right to state your opinion. But be warned that the facts may come back to bite you in the ass over your opinion. Stating that "reviews are opinions" is a completely wrong and shows that those stating that don't know the difference between the two. And if a reviewer claims that his or her reviews are "just their opinions" doesn't know the difference either.... 

    Yep, you're right, you're the professional.

    Oh wait a minute, you're not?

    Oh, I'm sorry, I was thinking of Bill.

    It must really pain you to know everything there is to know and not get paid for it. Yikes.

    Cheers,
    Jon Wood
    Managing Editor
    MMORPG.com

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member

    Originally posted by TheFur

    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by therain93


    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by therain93


    Originally posted by Spyted


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by therain93


     

    I don't believe that SOE has made back $50 million in box sales, sorry.  Even if we're generous and say that SOE sold 1 million boxes, they only get a small portion of revenue from retail sales (at least boxes, which is a good portion of PC and all of the ps3), not the entire $30-$40-$50-$60 that gets charged to the customer.

    Also, why are we rehashing parts of these conversations? We've gone over the litany of bad design decisions, bugs, and lack of content ad nauseum.  On the flip side, I do like the OP's question of why the press isn't talking about this more.  Where is Bill, since he was so gung-ho on the game?  Moved on to the next game already, too?

    Yeah I have asked that before as well. As mmorpg.com was so positive about this game, where are their articles now that the servers are barren?

     Simply a case of dammed if you do dammed if you don't, if an article arrived saying how much fun they were still having playing DCUO they the same few people would leap in and criticise the writer for being biassed or on the payroll. Indeed we have already seen such responses, not just here but also over on IGN when they admitted they were still playing, analyse this very post and the core is contradictory - why talk over old stuff, then why aren't the press talking over more old stuff etc.

    The internet, by its nature, is excessively contentious, people give less respect or consideration to others by virtue of the diminished responsibility and anonimity it brings - here we see some presumed 'success is suddenly equatable to quality', its facically stupid and invalid as any simple example can be offered to the contrary but backed by assumed nd made up facts it can sound incredibly persuasive....or can it ^^

    Your response is disappointing, yet not surprising.

    I'm in agreement that if  mmorpg.com did put out another article saying how "much fun they were having", they would be slammed.  We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check.  Rather than hide behind "damned if you do, damned if you don't", why not ask the "press" to stand up for their statements?  Some of us posters in the community had identified issues with the game and why they're problematic; it's not worthwhile for "us" to talk about it again and again.  What we're looking to read about is what the "press", the seemingly Yes-men, have not talked about yet.

    The sad thing is, if the "press" had actually tried to hold SOE accountable by calling out these issues, maybe, just maybe so many people would not have DCUO coasters right now.

    And your response is a perfect example of the problem "We don't need another rah-rah-shish-boom-bah statement -- we want honesty and a reality check." You aren't interested in their opnion at all UNLESS it happens to coincide with your own - reality isn't your subjective province.....yet that is literally what you are saying here, they stood up for what they percieved as a fair representation of the rating and placed it on the website, they rated the experience as a whole after seeing the same game and build you did. You don't want them spewing articles out if there is nothing to say, and little has changed....they have obliged.

    As and when and they re-review it - usually after 6 months as far as I can tell you might be happy to see it drop, but they are quite entitled to lift the score as much as decrease it - opinions are not facts, not theirs, not mine not yours and its doing disservice to the vast majority of players to presume they brought the game soley on the info from one review, life just ain't that simple or superficial.

    Don't presume you know me, or what I am interested in because you don't.  Many of us here can make the distinction between opinion, critical evaluation, and facts/reality -- you're clearly struggling with this though and spinning stuff.  All I see is you adding a lot of words to my post that aren't there, really just random speculatory fluff, for whatever your agenda is.... 

     I honestly don't have any agenda and I apologise if my post is in any way personalised or harsh. The distinction between opinion, critical evaluation and fact is the real point I was hoping to make. While many do grasp the differences there are still clearly some who do not...maybe I am one but doesn't that simply prove the point? Bill's review was honestly qualified as biased by his opnion, the accusation that he like others had quietly departed has been proven inaccurate, he is still playing and enjoying the game and so are some others - for them there is no call for a reality check because their reality has not changed from the one previously stated, for others the need for a reality check, as given by someone else, is questionable since they are already assured as to what it should say.

    Here is the crux of the matter. A reviewer has certain responsibilities to those who read their reviews. If you find that their reviews are inaccurate or lacking in vital info, they loose credibility with you, the readers. Credibility is what seperates sucessful  reviewers from the hacks.  Being a good/successful reviewer is hard, and they must evaluate even their own reviews to see if it was fair and balanced.

    On the other hand, if you want to be a blogger or opinion writer, that is easy. Spew out of your keyboard whatever you like. You don't have to be fair, hell you don't have to be right to state your opinion. But be warned that the facts may come back to bite you in the ass over your opinion. Stating that "reviews are opinions" is a completely wrong and shows that those stating that don't know the difference between the two. And if a reviewer claims that his or her reviews are "just their opinions" doesn't know the difference either.... 

    image Well said.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,533Moderator Uncommon

    Apparently we can't get this back on topic then. Locked.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

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