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Another terrible game, launched far too early with little to insight or inspiration

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    I stepped away from this thread for a bit an missed some stuff.

     

    @Noobgren

     

    I agree that there have been plenty of launches that didn't deliver,  but the point is,  these last minute refunds are the work of selfish children.  If you got in the game, played for a week, and realized the game wasn't for you,  you should have gotten a refund -- or better yet,  if you had any doubts in the first place that the game might have issues,  why would you buy it instead of wait until it launched or until more reviews were out?   Impatience is a major issue here,  everyone wants what they want,  and they want it yesterday.   

     

    Hopefully people will wise up sooner or later.  When I commit to spending my money, I accept that things might not work out exactly as planned.  I don't buy cars thinking they'll never break down.  I don't buy MMOs thinking they won't have bugs,  and I don't buy an indie MMO where I could easily see that the game has some issues from looking on the forums,  and then get angry when I buy the game and find these problems out for myself first hand.   

     

     

    @Inveritus

     

    The game does have problems,  armor doesn't work nearly at all,  PvP is broken with some weapons doing 40% damage per hit.  Unarmed attacks at nearly 25% damage and can attack 3x faster.   Thats more of a balance issue,  but armor not working is one major issue.  

     

    There are other bugs, either intened or not intended. Much of it has to do with player permissions on bags based on the area it is in. (setting permission to tribe or friends etc.)   And we have other miscellaneous issues.... the lag isn't the only problem in the least.  

     

    Really though,  once everything is turned back on, it won't mean the game will be unplayable,  it just means certain aspects will not be working as intended.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • InveritusInveritus Gerald, MOPosts: 55Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I stepped away from this thread for a bit an missed some stuff.

     

    @Inveritus

     

    The game does have problems,  armor doesn't work nearly at all,  PvP is broken with some weapons doing 40% damage per hit.  Unarmed attacks at nearly 25% damage and can attack 3x faster.   Thats more of a balance issue,  but armor not working is one major issue.  

     

    There are other bugs, either intened or not intended. Much of it has to do with player permissions on bags based on the area it is in. (setting permission to tribe or friends etc.)   And we have other miscellaneous issues.... the lag isn't the only problem in the least.  

     

    Really though,  once everything is turned back on, it won't mean the game will be unplayable,  it just means certain aspects will not be working as intended.

     

    Yes, but aside from the PvP issues, none of those things are really serious. They're just a small collection of random bugs that can be easily sorted out, once Jordi has time, and they're extremely insignificant (especially when you compare the bugs in this game with a couple other indie-developed, like Mortal, Darkfall, and Earthrise). They're so small that most people who come on here and complain haven't even noticed them; their only problem is either the lag or Elmorean's <insert generic "this is nothing like WoW" bitch>.

    In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
    I loosened my fist but for an instant,
    and thus I failed to clasp it.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Inveritus

     

     

    Yes, but aside from the PvP issues, none of those things are really serious. They're just a small collection of random bugs that can be easily sorted out, once Jordi has time, and they're extremely insignificant (especially when you compare the bugs in this game with a couple other indie-developed, like Mortal, Darkfall, and Earthrise). They're so small that most people who come on here and complain haven't even noticed them; their only problem is either the lag or Elmorean's .

    I think many people have noticed them,  but the PvP controls are very unintuitive.  Parry and Dodge are useless.... and its not even a question of performing one correctly at the right time (which is virtually impossible with the way the ping is -- dodge should be block, and it should be a constant hold instead of left or right hold -- parry should be the only interactive ability and should be way more forgiving).  

     

    I think if these items were easier to fix they wouldn't have brought someone in to deal with PvP explicitly.   A lot of other things don't quite add up...  medicine isn't in the game yet,  nor is some sort of metal working.  Junk piles are the main resource right now,  but I get the feeling its more so because they haven't implemented all of the skills to make players self sufficient on world nodes like using rocks to mine,  or taming animals to keep up wildlife populations, etc.  

     

    Then we have stats that are used in skills that aren't applicable right now,  a cooking skill that doesn't do anything at all,  and some recipes that use items that aren't even in the game yet.

     

    Nothing too serious, as it doesn't stop you from playing the game, or fulfilling a purpose,  but not exactly working as some had hoped.

     

    You can look past these items and still have a very enjoyable game,  but much of what is there is either placeholder, or not fully implemented with, maybe the exception of some crafting skills and some various excavation/gathering abilities.   What is there is still very fun to use,  but had it been fully working at this time with all features ready to go and just server stability being a problem, I think we'd be seeing very different posts.

     

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • InveritusInveritus Gerald, MOPosts: 55Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Inveritus


     

     

    Yes, but aside from the PvP issues, none of those things are really serious. They're just a small collection of random bugs that can be easily sorted out, once Jordi has time, and they're extremely insignificant (especially when you compare the bugs in this game with a couple other indie-developed, like Mortal, Darkfall, and Earthrise). They're so small that most people who come on here and complain haven't even noticed them; their only problem is either the lag or Elmorean's .

    I think many people have noticed them,  but the PvP controls are very unintuitive.  Parry and Dodge are useless.... and its not even a question of performing one correctly at the right time (which is virtually impossible with the way the ping is -- dodge should be block, and it should be a constant hold instead of left or right hold -- parry should be the only interactive ability and should be way more forgiving).  

     

    I think if these items were easier to fix they wouldn't have brought someone in to deal with PvP explicitly.   A lot of other things don't quite add up...  medicine isn't in the game yet,  nor is some sort of metal working.  Junk piles are the main resource right now,  but I get the feeling its more so because they haven't implemented all of the skills to make players self sufficient on world nodes like using rocks to mine,  or taming animals to keep up wildlife populations, etc.  

     

    Then we have stats that are used in skills that aren't applicable right now,  a cooking skill that doesn't do anything at all,  and some recipes that use items that aren't even in the game yet.

     

    Nothing too serious, as it doesn't stop you from playing the game, or fulfilling a purpose,  but not exactly working as some had hoped.

     

    You can look past these items and still have a very enjoyable game,  but much of what is there is either placeholder, or not fully implemented with, maybe the exception of some crafting skills and some various excavation/gathering abilities.   What is there is still very fun to use,  but had it been fully working at this time with all features ready to go and just server stability being a problem, I think we'd be seeing very different posts.

     

     

    That's essentially what I've been saying this entire time. We don't have the full list of skills and features in yet, but everything that we do have (again, aside from PvP) is working as intended, and the core concepts of the game are implemented. The peripherals (things like you mentioned, such as medicine and metalworking) wouldn't really fit in with the current lore for the game anyway (tribes of savages killing each other with rocks), so I'm not too upset. And when I was referring to "easy to fix" I was excluding the PvP. Maybe I should not have, though, because Jordi brought in a specialist specifically to work on it, and I fully expect to see improvements as soon as this little spat is taken care of.

     

    What was annoying me was that people were making the game out like it was a mess of broken mechanics and bugs - but it's not. Far from it. And Elmoren calling the game terrible because it doesn't have a tutorial? I don't know whether to roll my eyes and laugh or shoot myself because there is actually someone alive that utterly helpless.

    In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
    I loosened my fist but for an instant,
    and thus I failed to clasp it.

  • FishmittsFishmitts doylestown, PAPosts: 227Member

    Originally posted by gracefield

    Very gradually, more threads like this are emerging, where gamers are beginning to debate the problems with this game. At the same time, the number of threads where people are lauding the positive things they see in Xyson is decreasing. I've said before that these guys are close to screwing this up. This is a good idea but it's been poorly executed and it's beginning to fall apart....

    We don't have time to "Laud" the positives of the game, were all to busy getting our fishing xp to 90. That, and auto running into rocks..

    Nah, I really like the game, and may be the only one who thinks the combat is fun. Then again, I'm not the brightest knife in the pond.

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    Launch is tomorrow. Why claim that it already launched?

    I still like it, reported 2 critical bugs during this "fish and gather" phase and they got fixed in a day so devs are on the ball. Patience is a virtue, rather have a launch postponed  then broken game. Besides subscription does not start running until official launch (again - not yet happened, if someone tells you differently he is not saying the truth) so I'm not paying for an unfinished product (yet).

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • SeffrenSeffren GentPosts: 743Member

    Originally posted by Elmoren

    Xsyon isn't bad game.  It's a poorly done game.  Much like other MMO's of the past few years, it suffers from the 'get it out the door!' mentality of MMO project managers and was rushed out far too early, severely crippling its potential. 

    As I said, its not a bad game.  Howver, it's also not a good game.  It's a classic case of diehard MMO players (like myself) trying to find somewhere to call home, embracing the newest, poorly done, idea.  When you're bored, struggling to find a game to play in your spare time, you'll play ANYTHING.  Thats where Xsyon comes in.

    If you haven't read forums or looked up guides, don't bother playing this game.  You won't be able to.  Not from an impossible point, but from a WTF point.  You'll come into a world without tooltips or descriptions, without a tutorial, without a blatantly obvious UI, and without much time to learn it.  You'll probably get ganked while trying to figure out what to do.

    Don't get me started on character creation, where you get to allocate meaningless stat points into a few commonly named places.  I label them as meaningless because there is no way to figure out what each one does, and in game - some are even less obvious then their labels.

    Tooltips are not hard to write.  They are not hard to implement, and they are inexcusable not to have in any program, of any kind (except perhaps a calculator) in any production level environment since 1995.  Information is never a bad thing.  Not having these means you're allergic to success and money.

    Combat is a mass of poorly animated and designed characters from 1998 swinging wildly without any indication of, well, anything.  Are you hitting?  Are they?  when will either of you die?  What's happening?  Why play a game where you aren't even in reasonable control of your actions.  Swinging wildly at someone hoping you're hitting isn't PVP.  It's luck.  Go to the casio if that's your thing.

    Just a terrible all around game, from another company that didn't bother to write up a project plan and pushed out a release far before it was ready.  What another monumental waste of time and development.  Incredible potential.

    Do not buy this game.  You were warned.

     

    Not to be an ass here, but isn't this like the textbook definition of what hardcore elitist old skool gamers look for?

  • NoobgrenNoobgren StocktownPosts: 102Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I stepped away from this thread for a bit an missed some stuff.

     

    @Noobgren

     

    I agree that there have been plenty of launches that didn't deliver,  but the point is,  these last minute refunds are the work of selfish children.  If you got in the game, played for a week, and realized the game wasn't for you,  you should have gotten a refund -- or better yet,  if you had any doubts in the first place that the game might have issues,  why would you buy it instead of wait until it launched or until more reviews were out?   Impatience is a major issue here,  everyone wants what they want,  and they want it yesterday.   

     

    Hopefully people will wise up sooner or later.  When I commit to spending my money, I accept that things might not work out exactly as planned.  I don't buy cars thinking they'll never break down.  I don't buy MMOs thinking they won't have bugs,  and I don't buy an indie MMO where I could easily see that the game has some issues from looking on the forums,  and then get angry when I buy the game and find these problems out for myself first hand.   

     

     

    Well, I agree people are too quick to ask for refunds these days. I have no issue with spending 40 bucks, that's not really the issue since I knew I was paying for a beta (well, that, and a "headstart" that shrunk from 2 weeks to like... 3 days or something) and fully expected some troubles. Seems a lot of people think they're the all-important center of the universe just because they spent a little money on a product. I guess modern consumerism and the "customer is always right" culture have produced that mindset - and I think it's pathetic.

    For me though, it's about time and patience rather than money. I'm tired of hoping that a game will improve, tired of investing energy into it based on its "potential". I'd rather just play something else, or do something else than gaming altogether, than waste more time on another broken game. Life's too short to play bad games ("bad" also meaning "incomplete", "unfinished", "unstable" and "devoid of content").

  • outfctrloutfctrl Jacksonville, FLPosts: 3,619Member

    Originally posted by DevilHawk

    You know, I was thinking earlier.... what is it about this game that just has me hooked. Its the similarities in spirit to Jump Gate. NetDevil had what... 6 devs when they created JumpGate classic.. and they never gave in to what the majority cried for. The game was never ever, overly successful. But over 10 years later and the server is still online with people paying to play. Does that say anything?

    There are alot of similarities here. Sandbox wise.  Of course, these are two completely different settings... but hey, I guess I just love the open sandbox style.. and not just that, it attracts a certain type of community that is a blast to be around.

    Thats got to be what it is. =)

    That is exactly how I feel.  I played jumpgate Classic off and on for 4-6 years.  Every now and then I get the yearning to get back in that world.  I pre-paid for Xzyon because I saw something special.  Yes, I have played all the mmorpg's from UO to WoW and now Rift.  Xsyon is very unique, refreshing and yes, a little frustrating, but can see me playing this game for years to come. I enjoy trying to figure things out.

    Will my Tribe go away, maybe, but I will join another one.  I am hoping that this is not going to be another vaporware.

    image

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

    [b]Don't get me started on character creation, where you get to allocate meaningless stat points into a few commonly named places.  I label them as meaningless because there is no way to figure out what each one does, and in game - some are even less obvious then their labels.[/b]

     Stats do have a purpose, asking ingame will normally get you some friendly help. There are also threads devoted to the topic, any of which you can read up on. The Dev(s) have stated multiple times they want the customers to figure things out for themselves, that being the case they still asked for volunteers to draft a New User Tutorial... just for you.

    [b]Tooltips are not hard to write.  They are not hard to implement, and they are inexcusable not to have in any program, of any kind (except perhaps a calculator) in any production level environment since 1995.  Information is never a bad thing.  Not having these means you're allergic to success and money.[/b]

     

     There are tooltips in game, you didn't see them because they are currently turned off as the reflected information such as : Quality and degradation is turned off.

     

     

  • ElmorenElmoren Warhammer Online Correspondent Denville, NJPosts: 110Member Uncommon

    Out of curiosity, how's launch day going?

    “The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.”

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon

    I think a lot of people are forgetting that a game like this isn't something you play for a few weeks then bin it..

    If this game is something you like then your going to be playing it for months, if not years. Having a few issues at the start of the game is nothing. Having a dev team that obviously care and take in feedback matters a lot more.

    For those who have played the game a year ago and look at it now it is obvious that there have been a lot of changes made. And this is while Jordi is still going through a lot of the older code that the previous programmer messed up. Now that a lot of those kind of issues are being fixed if they havent been already he and his team can start focusing on introducing new features once more.

    Everyone is quick to see issues and flaws but they don't spend as much time looking at the progress made or how the game is shaping up as a whole. As always people have blinkers on and are not looking at the bigger picture.

    The reason, as Jordi himself advised, the game was released even though he didnt want it to be was that he was working so hard and for so long that he was more or less making himself physically ill. He was having to go through old code that he thought had been finished off and completed to a certain level and stage by the previous programmer he was hiring and found out that much of the 'work' was way below standard and not anywhere near complete.

    Add to that the fact that his server hosts have been messing him around left right and center and that he can't exactly just tell them to go away and change host and the flick of a switch.. He has been put in a pretty bad position and given all that has happened I think he has a done a fantastic job. Now that he has worked past a lot of the backlog that has been generated up to now he can start spending an increasing amount of time working toward adding new content and features. And this is the perfect time for the playerbase to add in their opinions and try help Jordi make the right decisions.

  • outfctrloutfctrl Jacksonville, FLPosts: 3,619Member

    Originally posted by outfctrl

    Originally posted by DevilHawk

    You know, I was thinking earlier.... what is it about this game that just has me hooked. Its the similarities in spirit to Jump Gate. NetDevil had what... 6 devs when they created JumpGate classic.. and they never gave in to what the majority cried for. The game was never ever, overly successful. But over 10 years later and the server is still online with people paying to play. Does that say anything?

    There are alot of similarities here. Sandbox wise.  Of course, these are two completely different settings... but hey, I guess I just love the open sandbox style.. and not just that, it attracts a certain type of community that is a blast to be around.

    Thats got to be what it is. =)

    That is exactly how I feel.  I played jumpgate Classic off and on for 4-6 years.  Every now and then I get the yearning to get back in that world.  I pre-paid for Xzyon because I saw something special.  Yes, I have played all the mmorpg's from UO to WoW and now Rift.  Xsyon is very unique, refreshing and yes, a little frustrating, but can see me playing this game for years to come. I enjoy trying to figure things out.

    Will my Tribe go away, maybe, but I will join another one.  I am hoping that this is not going to be another vaporware.

    I screwed up.  The game isnt what I thought it would be.  I actually thought it would be like UO on steroids, instead, it bored me to death.  I cancelled my sub.  Now I am back to WoW and playing Earth and Beyond.

    Actually, more in Earth and Beyond.  The people who broght back EnB did a fantastic job.  I even donated 25.00 to them to help them improve it.  I wasted 40.00 on Xsyon.  Oh well, it's only money, right?  ;-)

    image

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