Same here, for me they seem really alike. Maybe thats why alot WoW players dont call it a clone (They like it). A clone is seen as negative. It is very polished and I can understand why people coming from Wow like it.
Same here, for me they seem really alike. Maybe thats why alot WoW players dont call it a clone (They like it). A clone is seen as negative. It is very polished and I can understand why people coming from Wow like it.
Exactly. Being a WoW Clone isn't a bad thing if it's executed well. and Rift is. But, like I said before, I'm just bored. And it could be from playing all kinds of themepark MMO's, or it could be from MMO's, or from games all together. I'll give it a month and if I'm stil lwithout anything to play, I might come back to Rift.
We had a few people group up with us for dungeon runs who didn't like our group rules.
'If you can use it and it's an upgrade for your character: NEED it.'
'If you want a chance at it just to sell it or hand to an alt: GREED it.'
'If you NEED on something that isn't beneficial to your current calling (specially something you cannot use) You will be kicked.'
We had a warrior who decided to attempt to roll 'need' on everything that popped up. The first time he was warned. Second time our group leader was being nice. The last time he was booted. He then took it to the lvl 40-49 chat, complaining about how we were 'asshats' for kicking him from the group. Sadly I don't think he counted on other people remembering his name because "Why? You get busted for rolling NEED on everything again?" started to pop up in the channel from others.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
We had a few people group up with us for dungeon runs who didn't like our group rules.
'If you can use it and it's an upgrade for your character: NEED it.'
'If you want a chance at it just to sell it or hand to an alt: GREED it.'
'If you NEED on something that isn't beneficial to your current calling (specially something you cannot use) You will be kicked.'
We had a warrior who decided to attempt to roll 'need' on everything that popped up. The first time he was warned. Second time our group leader was being nice. The last time he was booted. He then took it to the lvl 40-49 chat, complaining about how we were 'asshats' for kicking him from the group. Sadly I don't think he counted on other people remembering his name because "Why? You get busted for rolling NEED on everything again?" started to pop up in the channel from others.
And this is why community filtering works and random cross server tools don't. It is unavoidable that your server will have a good share of asshats. Unfortunately for them, they'll be finger pointed and avoided, something you can't do in a cross server random pickup group.
Lol, It might make me a dick but if you come into my group as a dps you have full tank gear on and all your talents are in tank like talents... Your going too get kicked i don't care don't waste my time or the other people in the groups time.
Thats what most people think, but I also prefer lone wulf playstyle. I also try to avoid any raiding stuff, this is like a job in your game and one of the main reasons i quit WoW years ago. WoW is fully focused on raids, i just laught if i look at my old guilds forum and see 4 days a week 5-8 hours of raiding...
Maybe its THE BIG THING for most players, running in same raid-dungeon every week, killing same bosses in same events all the time for months, but its none of my business, i cant switch off my brain for so long time ;-)
Raiding and dungeons should be a rare event and shouldnt be fillers in your game time. But it seems thats the way how theme park "care bear takes you by the hand and guides you" mmo's works.
I find it hard to believe that after only 2 weeks & not even 1/4 of the population at max lvl anyone would know what the absolute best spec is. Sounds like this group/guild was just a bunch of elitist d-bags with no common courtesy toward others. Its a shame as a whole has degraded so much in the past few years.
I'm lvl45 on my rogue currently & by no means have I found Rift to be a hardcore game in any aspect. Some of the dungeons may be difficult at times but I haven't once felt the need to completely min/max my character & I'm typicall the person to do just that in other games. I'd like to feel bad for that bard but tbh, I would have just left the group. The old days off mmo's where it was just a tight knit community are long gone, my only advice is find a good guild & stick with it. Don't pug for anything, you will only end up frustrated with the game itself.
Actually , the bard left at the last boss... And also left the group needing another bard/ support
LMAO karma.
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
We had a few people group up with us for dungeon runs who didn't like our group rules.
'If you can use it and it's an upgrade for your character: NEED it.'
'If you want a chance at it just to sell it or hand to an alt: GREED it.'
what about if :
a class(let's call it G class) can use dagger,hammer, pole, sword. So if anything of the same drop, the G class can roll?
a rouge class, can use dagger only. If dagger drop, the G class and rogue class will roll. Why? because both classes can use dagger.
Now, think about this. Is it fair to rogue class? Since G class can roll anything but rogue class can roll dagger only.
I don't care about entiquee(spelling?) no more, if i need it, i roll it. people dont care you are nice or not, they only care for themselve. with that mindset, i dont care either. i just roll when i need it, i dont care whether which class needed it more, coz if you care so much, if you care what people think, you will not enjoy the game. but that doesn't mean i will roll something that i cant use.
people always say "nice guys finish last"
what pissed me most was sometime they wont tell you the rules first before entering a instances. then they started to tell you when something "shiny" dropped.
It's a bit more complicated in Rift, although not by much.
As far as armor is concerned, pretty much everything is clear. I've had mages roll on accessories though that had more wisdom than intelligence. It is true that mages can utilise both stats on an equal base, while the cleric has a 4:1 relation between wisdom and intellect. By accessories I mean necklaces and rings.
Moving to weapons. There is a clear distinction between caster weapons and melee weapons. A dagger with intellect in it is a mage weapon primarily and not a rogue one. From that point on the lines blurr a bit though.
I've seen bows with block in them. One could call them warrior primarily, although they could easily be a damage upgrade for rogues as well.
Caster daggers have primarily intellect while caster maces can be used only by clerics and not mages. Staves is a grey area, on some of them the spellpower bonus is so big that it surpasses the bonus difference you get from the wisdom deficiency. The same can be said about certain totems (caster off-hands).
Somebody else is probably more qualified to identify grey areas in non-caster weapons.
Originally posted by sungodra Game is the spitting image of wow, I can't even wait until something else comes out. Half of the classes are not even viable if you don't spec the way everyone else is speccing. It's just bullcrap, the devs should have known this would happen rather than waste their time to make all these different combos that nobody will play because they wont be able to participate in a run without having to hear the kids flaming them the whole time.
Doh! This is an unoriginal EQ clone the same as WOW so of course it going to be the same!
Wow some people amaze me. How could anyone know that this game was not exactly the same as all of the other shitty EQ clones that have come out the last 10 years or more.
Try playing something innovative and different like some of the sandbox games out there.
Regardless of what MMO I'm playing or what event I'm currently engaged with ~ as soon as someone thinks its ok to tell another how to play their char or make a specific build, I quit the group and find another. Its best to just avoid these players that think they know best, and while it may hamper your progress only slightly; having to find another group, it will also end their party too.
In the end no more progress is made at that moment, and the situation with loot being hoarded as described above, wouldn't have come to pass.
This is a prime example of how everyone should play: Don't give two shits about what anyone else thinks or says; just have some fun and fuck everything else.
I've played A LOT of MMO's, and seen a lot of things. If you want to get down to brass tax: it's partially the game's fault for making it so there are specific builds that maximize damage/healing, etc. But really if you think about it, EVERY game is going to have that.
One thing about Rift you have to understand: a lot of the souls have THE SAME abilities, just named differently and very slight damage differences. So you really can play ANYTHING you want to; but you have to know how to rock it. If you're not a very skilled player, all types of assholes are going to crawl out of the woodwork and rip you a new one because "you're not using this build".
If anyone told me to change my spec I'd tell them to suck it. All classes balance out, maybe not as well as originally intended, but they do; and the average player isn't a developer, so he's not intelligent enough to figure that out.
The 'WoW mindset' has nothing to do with WoW. It is all down to players, the shift in MMO's which allowed console users to play allowed teens and preteens to play. When you see guilds on Rift advertising and saying you have to be 12+ to join that says it all.
Regardless of what MMO I'm playing or what event I'm currently engaged with ~ as soon as someone thinks its ok to tell another how to play their char or make a specific build, I quit the group and find another. Its best to just avoid these players that think they know best, and while it may hamper your progress only slightly; having to find another group, it will also end their party too.
In the end no more progress is made at that moment, and the situation with loot being hoarded as described above, wouldn't have come to pass.
This. I only had something like what the OP described once in WoW, it was for a Pug Raid and while it wasn't me who was being attacked I was the first to leave. Eventually the whole raid fell apart, hopefully it taught a small lesson to the silent majority who don't like this behavior.
The best way to get rid of this behavior is to not tolerate it, the more you stay in these groups the more people think it's ok to act like this.
why didnt i think of that??......i'll be doing this in future pugs.....be gone with 1337 players telling us slackers what to do
Thw 'WoW mindset' has nothing to do with WoW. It is all down to players, the shift in MMO's which allowed console users to play allowed teens and preteens to play. When you see guilds on Rift advertising and saying you have to be 12+ to join that says it all.
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
This thread show exactly where WoW has failed. DPS/Heal meters and min-maxing. They(well not they but d-people who got tools to harass normal folks, but You get my point) change game into job.
Threat, healing, damage(in PvE obviously) should not be visible outside Your character. As simple as that. Not only because they hurt community(like 5:24 boss fight duration vs 7:12 means enough to kick players and make drama) but also they don't measure things like off healing, off tanking, cc and overall supportive things. And You don't need meters to spot a bad player.
LOTRO done it right and has one of best communities in MMOs.
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
Yup, You'll be a d-person and in normal community You'll end up on peeps ignore lists on server. Also You're exaggerating much. Not most efficient build doesn't heavily influence on anything and is rarely cause of wipe. Your examples of tank trying to be dps means a bad player but people here are talking about different thing. Not perfect* build =/= bad player. Read thread again please...
Also from my experience one l33t player with perfect* build and huge ego in group causes much more trouble and wipes than any other person with any reasonable build.
* If such thing as perfect build exist and is measurable at all.
This thread show exactly where WoW has failed. DPS/Heal meters and min-maxing. They(well not they but d-people who got tools to harass normal folks, but You get my point) change game into job.Threat, healing, damage(in PvE obviously) should not be visible outside Your character. As simple as that. Not only because they hurt community(like 5:24 boss fight duration vs 7:12 means enough to kick players and make drama) but also they don't measure things like off healing, off tanking, cc and overall supportive things. And You don't need meters to spot a bad player.LOTRO done it right and has one of best communities in MMOs.
I haven't played LoTRO in quite a while, but if I remember correctly there simply are no meters, yes? No meters in-game, no meters out of game (no combat log you can parse). Is this correct? My memory of grouping in LoTRO is get a group, everyone is friendly and says hello, try the dungeon, fail on a boss, try it again, fail on a boss, no one is pissed yet, discuss strategies, try it again, succeed, move to next boss.
I also had a great time in LoTRO and loved the community. I didn't miss the meters, and loved the fact that people stuck it out until success was achieved.
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
Two deaths isn't bad, five on the other hand is. Some people just don't give a rat's ass if they die; they're just having fun. I got fucking smoked tons of times my first day on Rift hunting; but I loved every second of it and went back for more.
If you expect to get in the best group, every time, any time you walk into a raid or an instance; you're setting yourself up to be frustrated. It's like gold farmers, if you got a problem, then ignore them. If you have a problem with someone's DPS, then leave the fucking group instead of whining like a little shit that just dropped his ice cream on the ground.
At the end of the day, no one cares man; it's just a game.
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
Remember playing with people having fun not just "wasteing time" So of us do remember and thats why we play
P.S you wont have that problem if you dont pug
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
What you have described doesnt have ANYTHING with Rift being a copy of WoW, the problem resides with the greedy scumbag players that saddly started experiencing their MMOs lives in WoW.
A good portion of my guildies have left Rift and believe it or not have gone back to:
Everquest Progression Server
Since the original EQ was rutheless and unforgiving, the community have to "work together" to succeed. For example: Death mean something in EQ, you could be train to death if you are jerk. No one will help in a corpse run and eventually your name will get enough bad reputation that you will quit.
I have already cancelled rift not because it is bad game, or because of the player base. I cancelled Rift because the PvP is not what I thought to be
It really sucks when there is "no room" for speccing the way you want and exploring. But come on, lighten up, thats a few players out of quite a few thousands? No need to panic just yet.
Blaming WoW for everything, are we?? Get a grip. It is people's free will to do whatsoever they please. I hate WoW, but I do not blame WoW for every friggins negative thing that happens in Rift.
Like this never happened in UO, EQ or AO, even at it's beginning? The term "ninja" is older than WoW, and the genre has been around for nearly a decade BEFORE WoW was released. Trust me; there were idiots in the MMO's from day 1.
This doesnt happen in smaller communities, and heres why. Lets take Sullon Zek from EQ1 for example, there were 3 teams good evil and neutral. Because we were split into 3 teams, you knew most people on your team. When someone was an absolute Dbag, or did something unsavory word spread fast. I knew a number of people who had to reroll their characters because they made some bad choices and no one would group with them. In a group centric game, that was the death of your character.
Now however because MMOs are less team sports and more shooting basketball on the driveway, people can be morons without caring because they can solo their way through the game anyway. Thats just one of the many reasons I think group centric MMOs are better. You act like an ass, you dont progress.
The only reason to go 51 into bard is the get the verse to regen mana.
That verse is on a 2 minute CD and is only moderately useful and is eclisped by other much better ways for caster souls to get their mana back themselves and is by no means necessary.
So the people demanding this are dumb and their statement that they were carrying him shows that they have no idea what they are are talking about. A 51 pt bard in no way heals more or damage more than a 44pt bard.
A 32 pt bard with other souls that increase their damae will be very effective and will also cause that bard to heal more.
There are bad builds. This is something people need to accept. But the simple formulas based in other games spit out by raiding zombies are kind of sad.
This is not really a game things. Its a social thing. Its more about control and dominance and finding an excuse to treat other people badly to make yourself feel good and powerful.
These things they have nothing to do with reality. This sort of person (clique in this case) will use any even vaguely presentable excuse to treat other in this manner.
Comments
Same here, for me they seem really alike. Maybe thats why alot WoW players dont call it a clone (They like it). A clone is seen as negative. It is very polished and I can understand why people coming from Wow like it.
Zoos the Slacker
Exactly. Being a WoW Clone isn't a bad thing if it's executed well. and Rift is. But, like I said before, I'm just bored. And it could be from playing all kinds of themepark MMO's, or it could be from MMO's, or from games all together. I'll give it a month and if I'm stil lwithout anything to play, I might come back to Rift.
0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
We had a few people group up with us for dungeon runs who didn't like our group rules.
'If you can use it and it's an upgrade for your character: NEED it.'
'If you want a chance at it just to sell it or hand to an alt: GREED it.'
'If you NEED on something that isn't beneficial to your current calling (specially something you cannot use) You will be kicked.'
We had a warrior who decided to attempt to roll 'need' on everything that popped up. The first time he was warned. Second time our group leader was being nice. The last time he was booted. He then took it to the lvl 40-49 chat, complaining about how we were 'asshats' for kicking him from the group. Sadly I don't think he counted on other people remembering his name because "Why? You get busted for rolling NEED on everything again?" started to pop up in the channel from others.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
And this is why community filtering works and random cross server tools don't. It is unavoidable that your server will have a good share of asshats. Unfortunately for them, they'll be finger pointed and avoided, something you can't do in a cross server random pickup group.
Lol, It might make me a dick but if you come into my group as a dps you have full tank gear on and all your talents are in tank like talents... Your going too get kicked i don't care don't waste my time or the other people in the groups time.
OMG ! You are in an MMO you MUST group up !!!!
Thats what most people think, but I also prefer lone wulf playstyle. I also try to avoid any raiding stuff, this is like a job in your game and one of the main reasons i quit WoW years ago. WoW is fully focused on raids, i just laught if i look at my old guilds forum and see 4 days a week 5-8 hours of raiding...
Maybe its THE BIG THING for most players, running in same raid-dungeon every week, killing same bosses in same events all the time for months, but its none of my business, i cant switch off my brain for so long time ;-)
Raiding and dungeons should be a rare event and shouldnt be fillers in your game time. But it seems thats the way how theme park "care bear takes you by the hand and guides you" mmo's works.
LMAO karma.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
what about if :
a class(let's call it G class) can use dagger,hammer, pole, sword. So if anything of the same drop, the G class can roll?
a rouge class, can use dagger only. If dagger drop, the G class and rogue class will roll. Why? because both classes can use dagger.
Now, think about this. Is it fair to rogue class? Since G class can roll anything but rogue class can roll dagger only.
I don't care about entiquee(spelling?) no more, if i need it, i roll it. people dont care you are nice or not, they only care for themselve. with that mindset, i dont care either. i just roll when i need it, i dont care whether which class needed it more, coz if you care so much, if you care what people think, you will not enjoy the game. but that doesn't mean i will roll something that i cant use.
people always say "nice guys finish last"
what pissed me most was sometime they wont tell you the rules first before entering a instances. then they started to tell you when something "shiny" dropped.
Which FF Character Are You?
It's a bit more complicated in Rift, although not by much.
As far as armor is concerned, pretty much everything is clear. I've had mages roll on accessories though that had more wisdom than intelligence. It is true that mages can utilise both stats on an equal base, while the cleric has a 4:1 relation between wisdom and intellect. By accessories I mean necklaces and rings.
Moving to weapons. There is a clear distinction between caster weapons and melee weapons. A dagger with intellect in it is a mage weapon primarily and not a rogue one. From that point on the lines blurr a bit though.
I've seen bows with block in them. One could call them warrior primarily, although they could easily be a damage upgrade for rogues as well.
Caster daggers have primarily intellect while caster maces can be used only by clerics and not mages. Staves is a grey area, on some of them the spellpower bonus is so big that it surpasses the bonus difference you get from the wisdom deficiency. The same can be said about certain totems (caster off-hands).
Somebody else is probably more qualified to identify grey areas in non-caster weapons.
Doh! This is an unoriginal EQ clone the same as WOW so of course it going to be the same!
Wow some people amaze me. How could anyone know that this game was not exactly the same as all of the other shitty EQ clones that have come out the last 10 years or more.
Try playing something innovative and different like some of the sandbox games out there.
This is a prime example of how everyone should play: Don't give two shits about what anyone else thinks or says; just have some fun and fuck everything else.
I've played A LOT of MMO's, and seen a lot of things. If you want to get down to brass tax: it's partially the game's fault for making it so there are specific builds that maximize damage/healing, etc. But really if you think about it, EVERY game is going to have that.
One thing about Rift you have to understand: a lot of the souls have THE SAME abilities, just named differently and very slight damage differences. So you really can play ANYTHING you want to; but you have to know how to rock it. If you're not a very skilled player, all types of assholes are going to crawl out of the woodwork and rip you a new one because "you're not using this build".
If anyone told me to change my spec I'd tell them to suck it. All classes balance out, maybe not as well as originally intended, but they do; and the average player isn't a developer, so he's not intelligent enough to figure that out.
The 'WoW mindset' has nothing to do with WoW. It is all down to players, the shift in MMO's which allowed console users to play allowed teens and preteens to play. When you see guilds on Rift advertising and saying you have to be 12+ to join that says it all.
why didnt i think of that??......i'll be doing this in future pugs.....be gone with 1337 players telling us slackers what to do
Slackers unite
thank god i am in a realy cool guild.....
So? I'm suppose to just put up with someone being bad? I'm suppose to just say hey its okay you wiped us twice because you can't pull half the DPS the rest of the group pulls but hey its okay =] I don't think so. Its okay if you follow ur own path but I DO not put up with people being stupid..... You can have a bad build and it can hurt your dps and it will get you kicked. I may be being a dick, but your being a bigger dick by wasting my time and 3 other peoples time.
This thread show exactly where WoW has failed. DPS/Heal meters and min-maxing. They(well not they but d-people who got tools to harass normal folks, but You get my point) change game into job.
Threat, healing, damage(in PvE obviously) should not be visible outside Your character. As simple as that. Not only because they hurt community(like 5:24 boss fight duration vs 7:12 means enough to kick players and make drama) but also they don't measure things like off healing, off tanking, cc and overall supportive things. And You don't need meters to spot a bad player.
LOTRO done it right and has one of best communities in MMOs.
Also from my experience one l33t player with perfect* build and huge ego in group causes much more trouble and wipes than any other person with any reasonable build.
* If such thing as perfect build exist and is measurable at all.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I haven't played LoTRO in quite a while, but if I remember correctly there simply are no meters, yes? No meters in-game, no meters out of game (no combat log you can parse). Is this correct? My memory of grouping in LoTRO is get a group, everyone is friendly and says hello, try the dungeon, fail on a boss, try it again, fail on a boss, no one is pissed yet, discuss strategies, try it again, succeed, move to next boss.I also had a great time in LoTRO and loved the community. I didn't miss the meters, and loved the fact that people stuck it out until success was achieved.
Two deaths isn't bad, five on the other hand is. Some people just don't give a rat's ass if they die; they're just having fun. I got fucking smoked tons of times my first day on Rift hunting; but I loved every second of it and went back for more.
If you expect to get in the best group, every time, any time you walk into a raid or an instance; you're setting yourself up to be frustrated. It's like gold farmers, if you got a problem, then ignore them. If you have a problem with someone's DPS, then leave the fucking group instead of whining like a little shit that just dropped his ice cream on the ground.
At the end of the day, no one cares man; it's just a game.
Remember playing with people having fun not just "wasteing time" So of us do remember and thats why we play
P.S you wont have that problem if you dont pug
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
@ OP
What you have described doesnt have ANYTHING with Rift being a copy of WoW, the problem resides with the greedy scumbag players that saddly started experiencing their MMOs lives in WoW.
A good portion of my guildies have left Rift and believe it or not have gone back to:
Everquest Progression Server
Since the original EQ was rutheless and unforgiving, the community have to "work together" to succeed. For example: Death mean something in EQ, you could be train to death if you are jerk. No one will help in a corpse run and eventually your name will get enough bad reputation that you will quit.
I have already cancelled rift not because it is bad game, or because of the player base. I cancelled Rift because the PvP is not what I thought to be
It really sucks when there is "no room" for speccing the way you want and exploring. But come on, lighten up, thats a few players out of quite a few thousands? No need to panic just yet.
This doesnt happen in smaller communities, and heres why. Lets take Sullon Zek from EQ1 for example, there were 3 teams good evil and neutral. Because we were split into 3 teams, you knew most people on your team. When someone was an absolute Dbag, or did something unsavory word spread fast. I knew a number of people who had to reroll their characters because they made some bad choices and no one would group with them. In a group centric game, that was the death of your character.
Now however because MMOs are less team sports and more shooting basketball on the driveway, people can be morons without caring because they can solo their way through the game anyway. Thats just one of the many reasons I think group centric MMOs are better. You act like an ass, you dont progress.
The only reason to go 51 into bard is the get the verse to regen mana.
That verse is on a 2 minute CD and is only moderately useful and is eclisped by other much better ways for caster souls to get their mana back themselves and is by no means necessary.
So the people demanding this are dumb and their statement that they were carrying him shows that they have no idea what they are are talking about. A 51 pt bard in no way heals more or damage more than a 44pt bard.
A 32 pt bard with other souls that increase their damae will be very effective and will also cause that bard to heal more.
There are bad builds. This is something people need to accept. But the simple formulas based in other games spit out by raiding zombies are kind of sad.
This is not really a game things. Its a social thing. Its more about control and dominance and finding an excuse to treat other people badly to make yourself feel good and powerful.
These things they have nothing to do with reality. This sort of person (clique in this case) will use any even vaguely presentable excuse to treat other in this manner.