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Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning: Dev Perspectives on RvR

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,581MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

The Warhammer Online team has penned a new 'inside perspectives' article with several devs weighing in on Realm vs Realm play. Steven Engle and Keaven Freeman offer their thoughts on careers, class balance and more with specific regard to RvR play.

The campaign gives players a very compelling reason to engage in RvR. The completely revamped City Siege and campaign system (patches 1.3.5 through to 1.4.0) puts a straightforward emphasis on RvR that flows through the game. By providing the skeletal structure, around which skirmishes and battles can form and grow into larger full-scale battles, players are given the chance to influence and direct the campaign in the direction that best serves their ends. This in turn feds the overarching goals you can attain for your realm.

Read more here.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    Doesn't matter, RvR is hopelessly broken due to population imbalance in a 2-faction system, the only way to balance it is instanced pvp, which is not open world RvR. Catch 22 you might say.

    They can discuss it till they are blue in the face, it's a bad design from the ground up, until they acknowledge this, it's all smoke. This coming from the company who produced DAoC, a brilliant 3 faction RvR system which worked still baffles me.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,757Member Uncommon

    idk why war devs talk so much about RvR... it is already there, now focus on reviving the rest of the game so more ppl would join and do the RvR.....

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  • Oy-jordOy-jord Riverside, CAPosts: 43Member

    Originally posted by Zinzan



    Doesn't matter, RvR is hopelessly broken due to population imbalance in a 2-faction system, the only way to balance it is instanced pvp, which is not open world RvR. Catch 22 you might say.

    They can discuss it till they are blue in the face, it's a bad design from the ground up, until they acknowledge this, it's all smoke. This coming from the company who produced DAoC, a brilliant 3 faction RvR system which worked still baffles me.


     

    QFT.

  • SolestranSolestran Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 342Member

    To this day, I still can't believe these are the same people who developed Dark Age of Camelot.  What the hell went wrong and who needs to be fired for the piece of crap that is Warhammer Online?

    Compared to DAoC, WAR has so many issues on so many levels, it can never be fixed without a complete revamp.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member

    Originally posted by Solestran

    To this day, I still can't believe these are the same people who developed Dark Age of Camelot.  What the hell went wrong and who needs to be fired for the piece of crap that is Warhammer Online?

    Compared to DAoC, WAR has so many issues on so many levels, it can never be fixed without a complete revamp.

    They had an out with Skaven or Undead, it would have worked using them as a third faction. Ok, it would have been a lot of work and they would have ahd to redesign the game from the ground-up, but there was definitely potential to give it a shot. They certainly have nothing to lose, Warhammer was already a soiled loincloth.

    Irony is DAoC might outlive Warhammer, hard-core DAoCers still pack-out Ywain every day and some freeshards are packed to bursting.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • meetxj9meetxj9 Kuala LumpurPosts: 133Member

    They can scream, shout and ho ha the entier game and brag about things they are gona do but they ain't gona get players to come back since most of them are already occupied with other titles. They failed to catch our interest, they failed to realise their mistake early, now they are just beating the dead horse with a stick. If you want people to even consider coming back that would be with F2p, no is gona pay to play this.

  • RomseRomse Montreal, QCPosts: 198Member

    Pretty much the 2-faction / sever balance thing yeah...

    And it seems they are set to repeat the mistake in W40K : DMO

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by Zinzan



    Doesn't matter, RvR is hopelessly broken due to population imbalance in a 2-faction system, the only way to balance it is instanced pvp, which is not open world RvR. Catch 22 you might say.

    They can discuss it till they are blue in the face, it's a bad design from the ground up, until they acknowledge this, it's all smoke. This coming from the company who produced DAoC, a brilliant 3 faction RvR system which worked still baffles me.


     

    I agree but it does not baffle me why they went 2 faction. The bean counters probably convinced them that it would be cheaper to produce and the benefits not so great, they were wrong.

    However even with three factions RvR would be pointless as it really is not possible to score real victories. So when they say:

    "This in turn feds the overarching goals you can attain for your realm."

    I am really interested in knowing what goals they are talking about. Better loot for your character? As you really cannot score any persistant victories, just possibility to do some instances in the opposing sides city for some points and gear. You cant really occupy it or anything.

  • HersaintHersaint Oak, WIPosts: 366Member


     

    I agree but it does not baffle me why they went 2 faction. The bean counters probably convinced them that it would be cheaper to produce and the benefits not so great, they were wrong.

    However even with three factions RvR would be pointless as it really is not possible to score real victories. So when they say:

    "This in turn feds the overarching goals you can attain for your realm."

    I am really interested in knowing what goals they are talking about. Better loot for your character? As you really cannot score any persistant victories, just possibility to do some instances in the opposing sides city for some points and gear. You cant really occupy it or anything.


     

     Have to agree on that one - they missed the boat by nt implementing meaningful RvR and a third faction.

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  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Originally posted by Romse



    Pretty much the 2-faction / sever balance thing yeah...

    And it seems they are set to repeat the mistake in W40K : DMO


     

    The mistake may be repeated in DMO, but it won't be by Mythic.

    Here's to hoping the guys at THQ / Vigil learn from Mythic's mistake and change direction.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • daelnordaelnor Manteca, CAPosts: 1,569Member

    Warhammer suffers from instantgratificationitus.  It will never be right.  Just like RvR in DAOC was never right after new frontiers.  As soon as teleporting and really, really fast travel to the fight was introduced, strategic RvR turned into a mage stand off at a random keep. 

    Mythic had it right before they revamped everything...after that they introduced a couple cool modifications that were buried beneath all the crap they added to make it easy for people. 

    Old Frontiers= exciting, fun, meaningful, strategic RvR

    New Frontiers= Cool keeps, better siege.....no real RvR, just a Lemming run into the minefield of mage spells.

     

    Only RvR that existed after new frontiers was some small group warfare, and stealthers killing each other

    War screwed the pooch from the get go. Hate to say it because I wanted WAR to succeed....but it's DOA

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  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Originally posted by Romse



    Pretty much the 2-faction / sever balance thing yeah...

    And it seems they are set to repeat the mistake in W40K : DMO


     

    The mistake may be repeated in DMO, but it won't be by Mythic.

    Here's to hoping the guys at THQ / Vigil learn from Mythic's mistake and change direction.

    Guys really...

    From what I've been hearing about WH40K adopting the same 'tarded 2-faction crap I really really wonder... Is Mythic to blame for it?

    Games Workshop IP is the only common thing between those two titles and yet they both go for 2-factions even though they know it won't work. Why did Mythic renege on its proven concept of 3 factions? Hmm.. Games Workshop is very well know to be EXTREMELY protective of its IP.. I really don't think something as big as "good vs evil" would go past them... UNLESS it was they who pushed it.

    Imo it is Games Workshop to blame although I can't prove it since they're all so tight-lipped about it. The circumstantial evidence on the other hand is pretty compelling...

  • bbates024bbates024 Phoenix, AZPosts: 80Member Uncommon

    wow that was a nice post that said absolutly nothing if your a player of WAR!

  • darthrizzodarthrizzo Georgia, VTPosts: 1Member

    Actually, the 1st problem was that Mythic created the game.  All the crap that didn't work in DAoC made it into War and caused a lot of people to miss out on some really, really cool and innovative stuff.  Bioware took over and I'm reading about some smart changes.  I'm actually tempted to come back and play.  But, that leads to problem #2: they Launched WAY too early and tried to pretend that things wern't really bad.  Of course, things were really bad and after 3 months of waiting for the fix players started to leave.  Who is going to run out and buy a game that's loosing players?  Not me... not for $15/month. 

    Drop the price to $5/month for 20 hours of play time and the numbers will climb back up.  Once the number come back up RvR will start getting better.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by darthrizzo

    Actually, the 1st problem was that Mythic created the game.  All the crap that didn't work in DAoC made it into War and caused a lot of people to miss out on some really, really cool and innovative stuff.  Bioware took over and I'm reading about some smart changes.  I'm actually tempted to come back and play.  But, that leads to problem #2: they Launched WAY too early and tried to pretend that things wern't really bad.  Of course, things were really bad and after 3 months of waiting for the fix players started to leave.  Who is going to run out and buy a game that's loosing players?  Not me... not for $15/month. 

    Drop the price to $5/month for 20 hours of play time and the numbers will climb back up.  Once the number come back up RvR will start getting better.

     Theres already an endless free trial, play as long as you want forver (or as long as the game is up). Those who find the game fun enough to continue past T1 have already paid, and adding a paid, but time limited option would do absolutely nothing as people have been playing for free for months.

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Originally posted by darthrizzo



    Actually, the 1st problem was that Mythic created the game.  All the crap that didn't work in DAoC made it into War and caused a lot of people to miss out on some really, really cool and innovative stuff.  Bioware took over and I'm reading about some smart changes.  I'm actually tempted to come back and play.  But, that leads to problem #2: they Launched WAY too early and tried to pretend that things wern't really bad.  Of course, things were really bad and after 3 months of waiting for the fix players started to leave.  Who is going to run out and buy a game that's loosing players?  Not me... not for $15/month. 

    Drop the price to $5/month for 20 hours of play time and the numbers will climb back up.  Once the number come back up RvR will start getting better.


     

     

    Bioware did not take over.  They really have nothing to do with the development of War.  Well, they did, but indirectly.  They managed to take some of the decent people left at Mythic, and move them over to TOR.  Took some ideas from Mythic on PvP as well.  This is all rumors of course.  But...I do know that Bioware really has absolutely nothing to do with WAR development.

     

    Problem now with the game is they made the high end gear so much better than lower gear, and they cannot nerf or remove it, no one wants to level anymore.  So not many new players stick with the game.  What's worse for the vets, is that they really have hardly added any content over the past 2 1/2 years, and there isn't much on the horizon either, so why stick around. 

     

    Yeah play the endless trial, T1 is fun.  Wouldn't bother with anything higher than that. 

     

    @bbates024.. Mythic never says anything anymore really.  The extent of what they have said for the past three years:  "We have some AWESOME new content and features we are going to implement REALLY soon!  They are awesome!  BUT, we can't tell you about them yet, but trust us, they are awesome!"

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,181Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern


    Originally posted by Romse



    Pretty much the 2-faction / sever balance thing yeah...

    And it seems they are set to repeat the mistake in W40K : DMO


     

    The mistake may be repeated in DMO, but it won't be by Mythic.

    Here's to hoping the guys at THQ / Vigil learn from Mythic's mistake and change direction.

    Guys really...

    From what I've been hearing about WH40K adopting the same 'tarded 2-faction crap I really really wonder... Is Mythic to blame for it?

    Games Workshop IP is the only common thing between those two titles and yet they both go for 2-factions even though they know it won't work. Why did Mythic renege on its proven concept of 3 factions? Hmm.. Games Workshop is very well know to be EXTREMELY protective of its IP.. I really don't think something as big as "good vs evil" would go past them... UNLESS it was they who pushed it.

    Imo it is Games Workshop to blame although I can't prove it since they're all so tight-lipped about it. The circumstantial evidence on the other hand is pretty compelling...

    This!

    Games Workshop is the worst IP owner in the genre!  They are exactly the reason for this horrible design and exactly why WH40k will work like a lead balloon too.

    Such a shame, there are so many people that would have played a game with a modicum of decent design.  The sad thing we have these devs lying through their teeth when they know they have a piece of crap on their hands with worse pvp than even Wow.

  • xpanderxpander TallinnPosts: 13Member

    its not that bad game..im still playing it. this is the only game where i have fun while playing few hours a day only.. log in, join scenario or warband and bash some enemies..log out and go sleep :D

    next day same... but i agree this game could be much more. the train is gone tho. no staff for expansions. i think it will be running long, just like daoc, it has its fanbase. hope ea will bring some money into it tho..but i dont think it will happen.

  • DragimDragim Boring, KSPosts: 867Member

    Originally posted by Oy-jord

    QFT.


     

     LATGHLIH?  (Lol at this guy, how lame is he?)

    DAoC rocked.  Warhammer had high hopes, they could not deliver.  WAR is not DAoC. 

    I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.

  • JediConsularJediConsular Seattle, WAPosts: 51Member

    Originally posted by Oy-jord

    Originally posted by Zinzan



    Doesn't matter, RvR is hopelessly broken due to population imbalance in a 2-faction system, the only way to balance it is instanced pvp, which is not open world RvR. Catch 22 you might say.

    They can discuss it till they are blue in the face, it's a bad design from the ground up, until they acknowledge this, it's all smoke. This coming from the company who produced DAoC, a brilliant 3 faction RvR system which worked still baffles me.


     

    QFT.

    Thirded.

    Other than Star Wars, this is the best IP a dev company could have IMHO. It is a gold mine that has been completely wasted/squandered on a game that was led by fools, into the gutter. Harsh words maybe? But, those in charge made mistake after mistake, constantly leaving me to question if the decision-makers at Mythic had earned their positions through either winning a game of darts or beer pong!

    So many great races, classes, and lore to build from. What a tragedy.

    My text is green because my posts are created with Willpower!
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