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EverQuest II: Bang for Your Buck: EverQuest 2 Extended

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Comments

  • japojapo Sedona, AZPosts: 306Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    You get more bang for your buck with LOTRO. However EQ2X is more F2P in terms of content. 

    That is a bunch of malarky!  The differences in content are minimal at best.  The sad thing you can't figure out that a lot the content in EQ2 is NOT available to the free player.  Better luck next time.

    "No....EQ2X is a better deal...with or without spending money.  The world is huge and the content beats the crap out of LoTRO.

    Huh?  If you took the time to read Kost's post, he lays it out in black and white, it is blatantly obvious.   Numbers don't lie.

    Did you take the time to read my responses to his post?  They're in bright yellow.

    My numbers don't lie either.

  • VargurVargur OsloPosts: 143Member

    To compare games are often a test of interests. I used to play LotRO with a sub a year ago, but have not tried the FTP model. I have tried DDO FTP and just a few days ago I decided to take a look at EQ2x, mainly because I have heard many good things about their crafting system and housing design.

    The key to having fun is deciding what makes a game fun for you. Some people want to try all the races and classes, while others prefer to play just one race/class combo and take it to the end. The various preferences can make different games look more enticing. Some people just love The Professor and his world, and for them LotRO is the obvious choice. EQ2 and DDO are more "generic" worlds created by the devlopers, and EQ2 seems to open up more to exploring. When I play DDO, I dont see the old Pen and Paper worlds I grew up playing in, nor the EQ/DAoC I played avidly years ago.

    One might argue that EQ2's race packs feels excessive when the "have to buy" three races to get the one you want, and DDO allows you to buy single races, but to me at least that seems to be the wrong approach. I was a bit dissappointed that EQ2 did not allow me to ressurect my old EQ Half-elf Ranger without paying, but I think I can afford to pay if I decide that I want to do so.

    All games, even FTP, have something working for them. The key is to decide if their features are the ones you want, and if not, find something else to play.

  • KazaraKazara merritt island, FLPosts: 1,075Member Uncommon

    EQ2 is an outstanding game. The only serious problem it has is $OE and has suffered under its management. In fact, $OE as a reason to stay away is more than understandable. While the game may have many features, you will be nickle and dimed at every turn to truly access all them and to be spared crippling limitations.  I would suggest that any player that feels 'hooked' at the beginning of F2P just go ahead and buy the game (latest expansion includes game & all expansions) and go to the live servers for the free month.

    image

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member

    Originally posted by japo

    You can access ALL zones and reach max level in EQ2X without spending a dime

    That is untrue. You can't access the Sentinel's Fate areas or get to level 90 without paying somehow for Sentinel's Fate.

    Maybe this will change once the new xpac comes out, but at the moment you can only level up to level 80 max without upgrading or paying money.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • shakermaker0shakermaker0 SheffieldPosts: 194Member

    Originally posted by vesavius

    {mod edit}


     

    This article was written atleast a dozen weeks ago, and lets face it EverQuest 2 an expansions coming out every year - I'd be the first person to dance around and scream that SOE are shovelling money into my back pocket. Not the case unfortunatley.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by japo

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    You get more bang for your buck with LOTRO. However EQ2X is more F2P in terms of content. 

    That is a bunch of malarky!  The differences in content are minimal at best.  The sad thing you can't figure out that a lot the content in EQ2 is NOT available to the free player.  Better luck next time.

    "No....EQ2X is a better deal...with or without spending money.  The world is huge and the content beats the crap out of LoTRO.

    Huh?  If you took the time to read Kost's post, he lays it out in black and white, it is blatantly obvious.   Numbers don't lie.

    Did you take the time to read my responses to his post?  They're in bright yellow.

    My numbers don't lie either.

    If you can't figure out how restricted EQ2 is compared to Lotro's version of the freemium model I feel very sorry for you.

  • ultrastoatultrastoat Sacramento, CAPosts: 172Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan



    Originally posted by japo


    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    You get more bang for your buck with LOTRO. However EQ2X is more F2P in terms of content. 

    That is a bunch of malarky!  The differences in content are minimal at best.  The sad thing you can't figure out that a lot the content in EQ2 is NOT available to the free player.  Better luck next time.

    "No....EQ2X is a better deal...with or without spending money.  The world is huge and the content beats the crap out of LoTRO.

    Huh?  If you took the time to read Kost's post, he lays it out in black and white, it is blatantly obvious.   Numbers don't lie.

    Did you take the time to read my responses to his post?  They're in bright yellow.

    My numbers don't lie either.

    If you can't figure out how restricted EQ2 is compared to Lotro's version of the freemium model I feel very sorry for you.


     

    Ozmodan, why don't you actually give us a supportive argument instead of just spewing this kind of talk?

    I've played both Lotro and EQ2X, and whereas certain things like chat restriction are annoying, the equipment / spell tiers thing is hardly noticeable until the higher levels, and even then it doesnt really matter.

    Lotro offers you "more" at startup because it HAS LESS at the beginning. Lotro also "makes" you buy quest packs, and whereas you can grind for the points needed to buy CS items, it takes a lot of time.

    In EQ2X, I can go to my house, play with my furniture, then go around my home city, RP a bit, go on a quest, run into a zone that is much higher level, and get my butt kicked, and then come back to my city and start all over again, because I can acces virtually any and all of the content that the game has to offer. What's more, there are "progression" guilds in EQ2 that cap off at a certain level and complete everything in that expansion, so you can stretch your free game even further with that option.

     

    Now, kindly explain this sentence:  The sad thing you can't figure out that a lot the content in EQ2 is NOT available to the free player.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,834Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by japo in yellow

    So...what you're saying is , that even though EQ offers MORE classes for free than LoTRO, and the offering of races is EQUAL....since LoTRO has LESS in their game, they have the better offer?  You are kidding right?

    Lotro offers all the classes needed for every aspect of the game for free.  There are portions of EQ2 that require more than the 4 free mirror archtypes offered.  Yes there are more total classes in EQ2, but there will come a point when those classes are required and/or the free classes offered will not have enough gear/spells/etc to be able to contribute at higher levels of gameplay.  EQ2X offers more classes, but they are diminished in their capabilites.

     

    You can access ALL zones and reach max level in EQ2X without spending a dime

     A player can access the ENTIRE game in lotro without spending a dime.  That cannot be said for EQ2X.  Even the free content in eq2x has restrictions that break the risk reward model of the game.  A player can experience the risk of the content, but cannot enjoy the rewards of their efforts.  So players can't really enjoy ALL of the content without shelling out cash can they?

     

    But you can make a one time payment for that race and get your character back,  Which, as stated above, gives you three more races than LoTRO since the race packs come with three races 

    This is a discussion about what can be done for free, not what can be undone with a cash payment.  

    LoTRO restricts racial traits...or whatever they're called.

    Turbine points can be earned for free and used to purchase anything.  

    It's only a hinderance if you want to raid.  For players like me who don't raid...no biggie.

     The same could be said about races, classes, crafting, etc.  That doesn't make it any less important to the discussion.  It also might come as a huge surprise to players when they get to that stage.

    Who wants all the races?  And if you do,,,,a one time payment of $37.50 isn't bad.  Now you have like 5 times the races that LoTRO gives you.

    This is a discussion about what can be done for free, not what can be undone with a cash payment.  

    Again....who wants them all.  Find he one you want and py the 5 bucks.  Now you have more classes than LoTRO...unless you pay $20 for their extra class.

    This is a discussion about what can be done for free, not what can be undone with a cash payment.  

    Of course it is,...it's all about making money.  SOE does have bills to pay after all.

    So does turbine and lotro can be played completely free.  Everything.  Turbine has increased their revenue by 300% since their change.  EQ2X cannot even fill one server.  

     

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    Originally posted by japo

    Originally posted by Ozmodan


    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    You get more bang for your buck with LOTRO. However EQ2X is more F2P in terms of content. 

    That is a bunch of malarky!  The differences in content are minimal at best.  The sad thing you can't figure out that a lot the content in EQ2 is NOT available to the free player.  Better luck next time.

    "No....EQ2X is a better deal...with or without spending money.  The world is huge and the content beats the crap out of LoTRO.

    Huh?  If you took the time to read Kost's post, he lays it out in black and white, it is blatantly obvious.   Numbers don't lie.

    Did you take the time to read my responses to his post?  They're in bright yellow.

    My numbers don't lie either.

    What numbers?

    All you did was provide personal opinions on why you think your game is better than the other, then you tried to use some flawed logic to show why.

    "My game is actually better because yours offers less classes and races overall, even if you have to pay out the ass to play the extra races and classes in my game", is effectively your entire argument.

    Look at your actual response to the issues about gear restrictions:

    "It's only a hinderance if you want to raid.  For players like me who don't raid...no biggie."

    I see, so even though it's a piss poor deal it doesn't matter because it "doesn't effect you". Nice. What about the players who want to raid, or run high end dungeons (which you will be essentially useless in with the gear you will have, regardless of what you claim to the contrary). I guess it's all good that they are left out in the cold because it doesn't effect you.

    Regarding this little gem:

    "But you can make a one time payment for that race and get your character back,  Which, as stated above, gives you three more races than LoTRO since the race packs come with three races"

    It's not a one time payment if you were just subscribed to Gold and reverted. That is the entire point of why I made that statement to begin with. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and if you enjoy paying the company twice for access to that content be my guest, but don't you dare try to come here and convince other users that 2X is the better value, when you legitimately pay one time in LOTRO and retain the content you would be forced to pay twice for in 2X.

    Overall, in terms of actual evidence you provided none.

    If fact, you only actually provided any mathematical data in the second to last comment you highlighted in yellow:

    "Again....who wants them all.  Find he one you want and py the 5 bucks.  Now you have more classes than LoTRO...unless you pay $20 for their extra class."

    And you were not even correct about that. It's $7.50 per class, not $5.

    Regarding your argument about EQ2X having more races and available classes, I suggest you blame Tolkien for not adding more races to his world lol. Damn you Turbine! You chose to remain true to the IP you were representing, shame on you!

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    Originally posted by nhavas

    Ozmodan, why don't you actually give us a supportive argument instead of just spewing this kind of talk?

    I've played both Lotro and EQ2X, and whereas certain things like chat restriction are annoying, the equipment / spell tiers thing is hardly noticeable until the higher levels, and even then it doesnt really matter.

    If by hardly noticeable, you actually mean seriously roadblocks gameplay, then yes.

    Lotro offers you "more" at startup because it HAS LESS at the beginning. Lotro also "makes" you buy quest packs, and whereas you can grind for the points needed to buy CS items, it takes a lot of time.

    I have two young children that both had enough TP for the packs on there accounts within a week from the time they began playing. No, it does not take alot of time.

    In EQ2X, I can go to my house, play with my furniture, then go around my home city, RP a bit, go on a quest, run into a zone that is much higher level, and get my butt kicked, and then come back to my city and start all over again, because I can acces virtually any and all of the content that the game has to offer. What's more, there are "progression" guilds in EQ2 that cap off at a certain level and complete everything in that expansion, so you can stretch your free game even further with that option.

     In LOTRO I can go to my house, go to my neighbors house, go to my kinship hall. Decorate inside and outside. Walk around my home city abit. Bust out my lute and play music with some bystanders. Check the AH and actually use it if I want (without paying extra!). Run into a zone that is much higher level and get my butt kicked, and then come back to my city and start all over again.

    Also, you probably should mention that many of those "Progression Guilds" you speak of generally don't take Bronze level accounts.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Good read, especially since i JUST downloaded EQ2E last night!

    "From my initial steps I could see plainly that my bag slots were reduced to two interchangeable packs"

    I have only played for about 3 hours so far, but I have got 1 big bag and several smaller bags right from the start.....Wierd.

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member

    Originally posted by stragen001

    Good read, especially since i JUST downloaded EQ2E last night!

    "From my initial steps I could see plainly that my bag slots were reduced to two interchangeable packs"

    I have only played for about 3 hours so far, but I have got 1 big bag and several smaller bags right from the start.....Wierd.

    Indeed!

    Just wait till you realize that regardless of how many bags you actually have, you can only equip two of them without paying. Have fun carrying those extra bags around in your already extremely limited inventory, or being forced to throw them away, because you also have basically no bank space either.

    And forget about trying to sell them on the Broker, unless you want to pay for tokens just so you can list the items.

    Why don't you go start a guild and see if you can give them away to someone who might need them? Oh, sorry I forgot, you have to pay to be able to start a guild too.

    No worries right? You can just use chat to advertise them to randoms and sell them that way! Oops, no you can't, because your chat access is so limited that communication is almost non-existent. Have fun using /say to sell your goods.

    Ouch.

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Im 'between games' at the moment waiting for SWTOR to come out so have been a bit of an MMO slut playing all the Betas and F2P mmo's

    I would like to see Adam review LOTRO next and compare (and it would seem many others agree).

    That was the last game I played for any length of time and got to about level 35 in Trollshaws before I felt I had to start paying real money to be able to progress. The way LOTRO rewards you with Turbine Points for completing deeds and major quests meant that if I found I *needed* to buy something from the store, I could work on deeds/quests with turnine points as rewards until I had enough. 

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by Kost

    Just wait till you realize that regardless of how many bags you actually have, you can only equip two of them without paying. Have fun carrying those extra bags around in your already extremely limited inventory, or being forced to throw them away, because you also have basically no bank space either.

    Oh Man, that sucks!

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • cowboyhugbeecowboyhugbee Schlorgsborn, NJPosts: 28Member

    Originally posted by dpf1978



    One thing I will disagree with is the game "showing its age".  This game, after 6 years, looks better than just about any other MMO besides Age of Conan when all the settings are turned up.


     

    This is a joke, right?

    MAIN: LOTRO (Chedriin Azariah, Landroval), STO (Jay Andover)

    SIDE: FFXIV, RoM, Wakfu

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon

    " because I can acces virtually any and all of the content that the game has to offer"

    Excuse me?  EQ2 freemium limits your content automatically.  How can you play this game and not know that?

    If you can't figure it out, quest packs in lotro are cheap and can easily be earned for free and all content is available to me all the time, no restrictions beyond the quests and I DON"T have skill restrictions.  Anything I buy in Lotro I don't lose while in EQ2 once a special package expires you can't use it.  How can anyone sell something and then take away the right to use it?  

    SOE's freemium design is just a version of rent-a-bit.

    I can't grasp how some of these posters can't figure that out?  We are not talking about games here, but funding models, personally I think both games are pretty even when you get down to it, but if you want to play EQ2 most definitely select the subscription model, stay far away from the freemium servers.

  • trouser03trouser03 San Diego, CAPosts: 30Member

    I think some people take the term FTP too literally. The OP said he stopped at lvl 25 as he felt he could no longer progress without spending money. He also metioned he was "enjoying" his time. Well i could enjoy my time with a hooker and expect i have to pay. Bottom line is, if you make it to lvl 25 and are enjoying the product then maybe you should give a little back to the company that is providing this entertainment. It's a recurring plan. My main is lvl 44 now and i've spent $15 or $20 dollars, and that was to get a silver account. I signed up for SoE's clone wars game and that gave my account $3.50 of SC (which can be used in EQ2). I HAVE SEVERAL FABLED ITEMS EQUPIPPED AND SEVERAL EXPERT LVL SPELLS.

  • trouser03trouser03 San Diego, CAPosts: 30Member

    continued .... all purchased with the station cash i got from just signing up for clone wars. Easier than grinding deeds i'd say. Is there any game out there that you can truly play FREE and have the best of the best? I don't mind paying for things i want a-la-cart when i want. As long as the choice is mine and i have no monthly fee i'm good. SoE's model is fine with me as a Silver member .... Gold and Plat however I don't care for, but again it's your choice.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by trouser03

    I think some people take the term FTP too literally. The OP said he stopped at lvl 25 as he felt he could no longer progress without spending money. He also metioned he was "enjoying" his time. Well i could enjoy my time with a hooker and expect i have to pay. Bottom line is, if you make it to lvl 25 and are enjoying the product then maybe you should give a little back to the company that is providing this entertainment. It's a recurring plan. My main is lvl 44 now and i've spent $15 or $20 dollars, and that was to get a silver account. I signed up for SoE's clone wars game and that gave my account $3.50 of SC (which can be used in EQ2). I HAVE SEVERAL FABLED ITEMS EQUPIPPED AND SEVERAL EXPERT LVL SPELLS.

    dont compare the entertainment provided by a hooker with the entertainment provided by a game.... of course the hooker worth more some coins than the game..... if sony wanted to give ppl the priviledge of tasting eq2 for "free" (actually he did) , you dont have to pay a penny for it (the restrictions are annoying but still....)if u want to pay for eq2 u would stick to the live servers......not in the mood of having to pay everymonth for sub? then play eq2x, u want to spend money on it? thats ok.... but dont expect everyone to spend money on it cos not everyone believes it worth it......  and again.... the hooker makes u happier for some coins than a game

    image
  • japojapo Sedona, AZPosts: 306Member

    Okay...since some of you seem to be against spending ANY money in either LoTRO or EQ2X....lets look at what is "free" with zero money spent and no silly explanations to sway opinions.

     

    Races...4 each.   Tie

    Classes.  LoTRO 7, EQ2X 8.  EQ2X wins

    Size of World / Land Mass.  EQ2X wins

    Amount of Quests.  EQ2X wins.

    Number of free included expansions.  EQ2X has more

    Max Free level.  EQ2X 80, LoTRO 65.  EQ2X wins

    Free World Chat.  LoTRO wins.

     

    Did I miss anything?  Not that I can think of.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding out there about EQ2s F2P limitations.

     

    There is confusion on the max level.  The EQ2X model is that all expansions but the current one are free.  So once velious launches, bronze/silver get Sentinels's Fate for Free.  So Bronze/Silver will always be one expansion behind, but only one expansion.

     

    But really the big thing people can not grasp is that its a different approach to the game.  Going to use WoW as an example here since most will be familiar with it.  At the end of Wrath you had Naxx, Ulduar, ToC, and ICC all available.  Counting hard modes, thats 7 instances.  At the end of that expansions life cycle really only two were relevant, maybe you could get some challenge out of ToC hard mode depending on your gear/skill level.  but the others were all complete wastes of time for challenge or gear.  EQ2X would be like having those same seven raids, but instead of the top ones being relevant, Naxx, Ulduar and Ulduar hard are the relevant ones.  Still content to challenge yourself with for sure.

     

    However, the even bigger difference with EQ2X is that you would have to raid for the glory of the kill as the gear would not be useable.

     

    This leads to the next thing people don't grasp:  While you can have an 'endgame' in EQ2X, its not really designed for that.  SoE figures if you are going to be that dedicated, you are going to sub anyway.  No, EQ2X has so much for the casual player to do.  You can complete any of the expansions dungeons on a silver account, have access to all the housing and crafting and collections and heritage quests and lore and whatever else.

     

    People look so much into what they dont have that they forget what they do have.  What silver can play, without a single dollar spent past that 10, absolutely dwarfs what LOTRO even fully unlocked offers.  Hell what you can dow ith Bronze beats Lotro.  In terms of pure bang for your buck, by the definition of the phrase, EQ2X is the unquestionable winner.

     

    The question is can you enjoy what you have and ignore what you dont have.  if people didnt know the other gear and higher level content existed they would be praising EQ2X for its massive amount of content compared to Lotro.  but people can NOT look past that, so SoEs example has failed thus far.  Not because SoE didnt give people great value, but because its a value people cant fully appreciate.  if the only apartments in town are 800 square feet, people are content.  If they have a 950 square foot apartment but across the streeet are 1100 square foot condos, they are not content.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by Kost



    Originally posted by stragen001

    Good read, especially since i JUST downloaded EQ2E last night!

    "From my initial steps I could see plainly that my bag slots were reduced to two interchangeable packs"

    I have only played for about 3 hours so far, but I have got 1 big bag and several smaller bags right from the start.....Wierd.

    Indeed!

    Just wait till you realize that regardless of how many bags you actually have, you can only equip two of them without paying. Have fun carrying those extra bags around in your already extremely limited inventory, or being forced to throw them away, because you also have basically no bank space either.

    And forget about trying to sell them on the Broker, unless you want to pay for tokens just so you can list the items.

    Why don't you go start a guild and see if you can give them away to someone who might need them? Oh, sorry I forgot, you have to pay to be able to start a guild too.

    No worries right? You can just use chat to advertise them to randoms and sell them that way! Oops, no you can't, because your chat access is so limited that communication is almost non-existent. Have fun using /say to sell your goods.

    Ouch.


     

     

    Of course you fail to mention that those two bag slots will be able to carry 80+ slots worth of gear.  And no, it would not be that difficult to get large bags as a free member.  Inventory is more restricted in Lotro than EQ2X provided you actually put a little effort into it (and I do mean a little, less effort than grinding deeds)

  • andyman1112andyman1112 lilburn, GAPosts: 32Member

    silver isnt actually 20bucks it is 10bucks lol 

  • SunscourSunscour Grant, ALPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    I view Free to Play as more of a demo. Can I play a bit? Do I like the enviroment and the game play? 

    If I so, then I will gladly Pay to Play. I hate "Welfare" gaming.image

     

    Life is Short, Read a Book.

  • ultrastoatultrastoat Sacramento, CAPosts: 172Member

    Originally posted by teakbois



    There is so much misinformation and misunderstanding out there about EQ2s F2P limitations.

     

    There is confusion on the max level.  The EQ2X model is that all expansions but the current one are free.  So once velious launches, bronze/silver get Sentinels's Fate for Free.  So Bronze/Silver will always be one expansion behind, but only one expansion.

     

    But really the big thing people can not grasp is that its a different approach to the game.  Going to use WoW as an example here since most will be familiar with it.  At the end of Wrath you had Naxx, Ulduar, ToC, and ICC all available.  Counting hard modes, thats 7 instances.  At the end of that expansions life cycle really only two were relevant, maybe you could get some challenge out of ToC hard mode depending on your gear/skill level.  but the others were all complete wastes of time for challenge or gear.  EQ2X would be like having those same seven raids, but instead of the top ones being relevant, Naxx, Ulduar and Ulduar hard are the relevant ones.  Still content to challenge yourself with for sure.

     

    However, the even bigger difference with EQ2X is that you would have to raid for the glory of the kill as the gear would not be useable.

     

    This leads to the next thing people don't grasp:  While you can have an 'endgame' in EQ2X, its not really designed for that.  SoE figures if you are going to be that dedicated, you are going to sub anyway.  No, EQ2X has so much for the casual player to do.  You can complete any of the expansions dungeons on a silver account, have access to all the housing and crafting and collections and heritage quests and lore and whatever else.

     

    People look so much into what they dont have that they forget what they do have.  What silver can play, without a single dollar spent past that 10, absolutely dwarfs what LOTRO even fully unlocked offers.  Hell what you can dow ith Bronze beats Lotro.  In terms of pure bang for your buck, by the definition of the phrase, EQ2X is the unquestionable winner.

     

    The question is can you enjoy what you have and ignore what you dont have.  if people didnt know the other gear and higher level content existed they would be praising EQ2X for its massive amount of content compared to Lotro.  but people can NOT look past that, so SoEs example has failed thus far.  Not because SoE didnt give people great value, but because its a value people cant fully appreciate.  if the only apartments in town are 800 square feet, people are content.  If they have a 950 square foot apartment but across the streeet are 1100 square foot condos, they are not content.


     

    +1

2
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