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Dark Age of Camelot: What if... Dark Age of Camelot 2
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I remember being around lvl 40 Mercenary in the very beginning and the first Call-to-Arms went out as Hibernia had taken most of our frontier and was about to hit one of the relic keeps. I can not name a time I've been more pumped up and excited in my entire gaming life as we beat back Hibernia and held the Relic. Amazing! Later, when I understood RvR better and we were running 8man squads on Midgard rolling multiple groups at a time. Or hiding out as the other 2 realms went at it and then striking at just the right time to roll them both. OHH I miss my infiltrator watching the Mile Gate and busting healers as their groups attacked the opposing realm and completely destroying their chances of winning and then hitting Vanish. OH and what about 2 or 3 vs one... you could land the PA chain, DF the 2nd and then Vanish. Oh yea, you're getting a PA too!
Mythic, I'd fondle unspeakable things for DAOC 2.... Just let me bring back the Mercenary 1 last time..
I hate quest based leveling first of all. and artifically made fair PvP is terrible. I want 32 vs 8... That's when me and my groups name gets remembered.
I really don't think the leveling was that bad in DAoC. I had 3 50s before ToA came out. However they need to do something about the damn buffbots and the insane CC. I do like the ideal of smaller servers so people get a rep and we can weed out jerk offs. I can still remember during my time in albion the one name that would send masses of us charging in a rage hoping to be the one to put him down. That damn midgard troll Kubota. I think a revamped DAoC or a sequel would at least be worth checking out.
I would buy Daoc 2 in a heart beat. WoW is ok but it's a bit like the saying "That'll at least make a turd" after eating at a fast food restaurant.
Things I loved about Daoc.
1. Uninstanced dungeons.
2.Community through leveling. This created opertunities to know your fellow realm mates and create friendships and join guilds and alliances with other guilds.. Alliance war meetings were cool too.
3. siege warfare. The complex siege engines and the strategic use of them fascinated me. I loved every bit of it. Though, I had always wished for a fully destructable world, not just keeps. I also loved the addition of other engines later. Though movable siege towers would have been better in my opinion, I know the coding would have been a nightmare.
4. The frontiers were huge and persistant. We never had an 8 man. We had a 3-4 man crew that ran around at times. We would try to avoid the 8 mans and do what damage we could. Danr was our leader in the twilight of the waning days of Daoc. We had a very well oiled machine, we didn't use vent or anything like that, but we knew instinctively what was needed. We were true pros at our role in the group. The fact that a solo or even just a 3-4 man crew could make a difference in the overall war was novel. you can't really do that in WoW these days.
This I hated about Daoc.
1. buffbots. I couldn't afford the same luxuries as the guys that ran with buffbots so inevitably I always died in a 1v1 with these guys. It made all your accomplishments meaningless.
2. Baseline CC. Especially Hib baseline caster stuns, and AE mezz. Nothing is more frustrating then dieing before you can even have a chance to fight.
Nostalgia...
I remember the very moment my first character spawned in a small Troll village in the middle of Mirkwood. I also remember meeting a crew of friends that day that went on to become the closest thing to a family I have ever had in the virual world. This was in the month following release of the game so everything was still very new. Community was everything in Daoc, I still go to our community site for the old server Bors. Borsboards.com
At level 8 my firends were invited to join the guild Fimbulvetr on Bors server. We all had so much reverence for these guys.
The guild master taliored a brand new suit of leather for my Troll shaman and we thought we could do anything.
One day we came across the gate to the old frontier and we went outside and all the people there and the monsters were purple. We knew there was a world much bigger then us out there and that made us really scared.
Eventually we made it to the mid levels and started to get involved in RvR this was before the low level BGs I became a master at siege warfare even back then when no one knew how to use them. The first time our relic was in danger, the Albs and hibs had formed and alliance and attacked us at the Grallerhorn. I had a small ballista there waiting for them. It didn't do much dmg but it was a huge accomplishment to have fired the first siege weapon in a warfare situation. I remember the call to arms that night. we had 200+ vs at least 400 albs and hibs. The server crashed twice. But eventually it became stable enough to have our first major skirmish. There were so many bodies laying in the snow that you could not have walked a single pixel without stepping on one. I was hooked from that night on.
There are many stories like that still in my head. The game made a lasting impression on me. Unlike WoW. There are very few BGs I will remember in WoW. But I will always remember the moments we fought to defend a keep or tower or relic totally outnumbered and yet we held our ground and defended it to the last man. When you fought a battle in the frontiers THEY MEANT SOMETHING. Heros would rise up, men of great leadership. Shiztroll was the greatest of Midgard in those days, one mention that he was in the frontier would easily muster every available Midgard player to be out there following his every word. There were a few moments when I rose to the occaision and became a general in small battles. I learned how to be a good leader and how to lead by example playing this game. My character Farve was a small Kobold warrior. He was not strong, he didn't hit very hard. But his defenses were impenetrable. The most unhittable tank you have ever seen.
I miss those days, and would love to play Daoc 2 if it measured up to half of what the original was.
Guilds
Fimbulvetr- Bors Midgard
Nordic Storm- Bors Midgard
for me apart from ToA the other big problem was/is botting. I remember when it started and the odd player had a speed or buffing class in toe to make the game easier then the BK's had huge numbers of AFK bots. Now the game is so bad people run 3-4+ accounts to buff a single character. Rather than DAoC 2 I would like DAoC fixed. Remove ToA, fix the frontiers and remove and adjust the buff system and balance that part of the game to greatly reduce the need for buffbots but keep those classes viable.
I look at EvE as an example of a game that has been constantly devaloped and improved. DAoC has been constantly devaloped but in some ways it wasn't improved (apart from graphics updates). For me the major difference is that when EvE updates it gives players more "options" but not actually content that players "have" to do or get to stay compedative in the game. With DAoC if you didn't grind & get all the new bells & whistles that came out your character and redesign a new suit with all the extra bonuses and abilities you became RvR fodder.
DAoC post SI release just before ToA release was the best online gaming experience I've had. You leveled to 50 visiting the battlegrounds on the way which was awesome fun then at 50 you collected some quest jewelery and got a suit SCed and you were 100% ready to fight for your chosen realm.
A few expansions later getting to 50 was easy but not much fun, because everyone leveled in instances solo with bot(s) battlegrounds weren't as fun competing against botted maxed out characters. once you made 50 you still had to get Master levels, Champion levels, artifacts, champion weapons then get all the master/champion level experience you needed. Get all the dragopn drops you need then finally build a uber suit. Then struggle in RvR because everyone is RR10+ and the difference between RR3 & RR10+ is HUGE
The balance issues in he game between realms & classes was small compared to the difference between the people who have a level50 and the ones that have level50, ML's CL's RR10 and all the Leet gear.
IMO this is why I think DAoC is now all but dead/reduced down to a couple of servers. The focus of the game was taken away from teamwork as a realm and put on leet buffs, gear and abilities.
Quoted this part, though I agreed with your entire post, because I feel strongly about this point. I could not agree more. During one of my longest breaks from EQ1 during those early years, DAoC at that point in time was one of the most amazing MMORPGs that I have played.
I also agree that I would very much settle for DAoC fixed rather than DAoC 2. I would jump on DAoC 2 in a heartbeat of course, but the original fixed and rewound a bit would be just fine.
This thread is making me want to activate again and start at level 1 and experience the 'old content' that no one ever visits any longer again. Level up on my terms, the way it used to be. RvR, not sure if I would bother at this point. I would have to wait and see. But I wouldn't mind experiencing the PvE again.
Anyway.. I imagine this is all moot. I highly doubt we'll ever see either one come to fruition. Why no other company has tried using the 3 realm/faction model and making all the right decisions is beyond me. Wouldn't we all flock to such a beast? Be it DAoC 2 or another company.. Anyway, I'm just babbling at this point. Or perhaps that's all I have done. Either way, if you are reading this, congratulations on not being one of those people that can't seem to read an entire post! I salute you. Truly.
Acidon
fact of the matter is - now there's about a 1300 sub base constantly online, if you're an Irc buff then u can arrange 8v8 scrambles, if you play to enjoy there are pug slots 24/7, and most (most) of the a-holes stay out of general chat and just squable on the VN boards.
that solved : Dicks in trade chat, No room for new players, Too small of a player base.
I found there is a competent competitive 21+ population. Nice to get away from the over-compensatingly competitive 12+ population I run into w/ WoW and eq2
That being said, I'm as biased as any other person here.
If it aint broke - dont fix it. ~ but you can certainly polish it!
a new graphics engine would probably double the subs which isn't saying a lot.
doesn't matter what game you play or log into - min/max'rs are everywhere. ML's you flat out get when you ding 50. The game has literally funneled an overwhelming amount of "Help a Buddy Out" buttons. Bounty points will min max you'r gear with BP items, buy your MLs, and i think CL's too now (definitely not certain on that though).
IMO DAoC is much more of a community than eq2 w/ eq2flames . com , wow w/ the official blizz forums etc. And it's a sub 5k subscription platform who's main web forum is through VN....
Make the game into what you want. The champion quests / Epic lines are absolutely great. sure i don't want to run to lyonesse to bop a goblin and run back to CS to hand in it's eye, but the epic lines literally forced you into the content. much more-so than EQ's epic lines from Kunark, Their 1.5's and the 2.0's. (not knocking EQ's epic quests)
Player's make the community.
If you want casual/daily ease play WoW.
If you REALLY want competitive PvE load eq2
If you want a unique PvP or RvR experience load DAoC.
And If you want to succeed in school, you have to uninstall all 3 for your senior semester.
FML
I dream of a 3 faction RvR game without guilds and Teamspeak disabled.
Guilds, especially pre-made Guilds are the Death of any "Realmpride".
DAoC was good becausese 8vs8 PvP? There are millions of small scale PvP games. Go there if you want to bang with your friends.
In my opinion DAoC (and Planetside) was great when big zergs met, or 50 of your faction fought on this side, then the 3rd faction hit from another side.
Stop thinking about A vs B
This.
Upgrade DAoC graphics engine and I am resubbing right now!!
I would also buy and play a DAoC 2... But after reading this reply, I think A new enigine for DAoC would be better than a part 2
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
Side note / Plug : Mythic offers a free 10 day Come Back and Play period. your toons your account entire game no limits etc.
Twenty-five pages on this topic, and yet DAoC will remain gagged in a basement while the Warhammer employees try to keep Warhammer from drowning - all for the sake of their investor's interests. What a damned shame. I just wish some wealthy gamer (Robin Williams?) who loved DAoC, would buy the rights to it and let it grow. Damn how I wish that.
1. New engine
2. 30 mins to 1 hour on a realm timer (if even allowed)
3. A complete deletion of ToA, Master Levels, etc (even if they are "easy to achieve" they are still not part of what made the game great).
The Warhammer folks know their struggling Games Workshop title would die if DAoC was freed from her shackles. But, since these people are all about the money and could care less about what the fans want (at least an Origions server??!!), then it is arguably possible that a wealthy investor could buy the rights out from under their noses.
Am I just dreaming?
/My 2 cents - Robin Williams, where are thou good sir? =D
I'm right there with you. I'm so disgusted with the way current MMOs are going, I'm thinking about re-subscribing to DAoC. Downloading the trial now.
EQ1 was my first that opened my eyes to the world of MMOs, DAoC was my second and was the MMO I called home for years.
Going go D/L the trial and give it a spin.
http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/dark-age-of-camelot/4505-9696_7-30976101.html#reviewPage1
...
Developed by the experienced but heretofore little-known Mythic Entertainment, Dark Age of Camelot squarely takes aim at other popular online role-playing games--namely, Sony and Verant's definitive EverQuest, Microsoft and Turbine's Asheron's Call, and Funcom's recent sci-fi-themed Anarchy Online--and, by and large, it blows them away.
Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/pc-games/dark-age-of-camelot/4505-9696_7-30976101.html#ixzz1EWlZXKal
and
http://pc.ign.com/articles/164/164162p1.html
Massively multiplayer game launches have pretty much become a joke lately. After the chaos at the EverQuest launch and the clumsy launches of both WWII Online and Anarchy Online, most people just decided that any MMORPG wouldn't be worth playing until it has been out for a month or so.
Dark Age of Camelot from Mythic Entertainment takes that perception and shatters it. From day one, the game has been stable with only a few minor bugs to cause players grief. Instead of logging on to find the servers down on day one, each was up and I was able to get right into the game with no problems.
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The above were two reviews from 2001. Note how the second review sounds like a lot of things have not changed in 10 years. Massively multiplayer game launches have pretty much become a joke lately
So, here we have two references from 2001 - one month after Dark Age of Camelot released. The game broke barriers, raised the bar, and blew away the competition. They saw EQ's endless quest grinds and made a mistake in 2003 or so with Trials of Atlantis - but even with that - the game was still far more pvp depth than anyone has yet to experience (eat your heart out Warhammer).
But, DAoC is dead if you discount the 3k players on Ywain server. The game lost its luster for me when they allowed you to transfer to an enemy realm on the same server in under 6 minutes. What happened was the pvp' die hards that needed daoc until a new sandbox came out (Darkfall, Mortal Online), ended up just logging on whatever realm that was "pwning" the most at any given moment. Twenty-five players of Faction A would log and twenty-five players of faction C would log in - in about 6 minutes. Realm pride died, and the sense of Us vs Them vs The other guys died.
Mythic was bought up by EA/Bioware and DAoC, a game that with a little investment could had destroyed any concept of Warhammer, was instead swept under a carpet with a lot of her staff including Mark Jacobs (president) were fired/layed off. It was a buy out and delete move and very corporate. Good for Warhammer since they created a propoganda team that lied non stop about game imbalancing and endless boredom what they referred to as RvR IN THE FACE - myself and all my daoc buddies referred to as "oh god, seriously?."
DAoC 2 had a great start. Made a mistake a few years down the road, then WoW came out and every developer since has tried to create their own capture the flag battleground game with 2 factions and generic lore.
What a shame.
The biggest draw back to bringing back DAoC community in this day in age is almost impossible. You think now about all the Vet. DAoC players and think of how much they've aged. Most people who truly played within the first 4-5 years of the game have a completely different mindset to the players of today. WoW was the breeding ground for trolls, and since it's inception has only increased by 1000x fold. The same courtesy you'd see in DAoC today isnt the same you'd see in most MMO's of today. It suck b/c DAoC had an amazing array of revolutionary ideas, even though some like to say it was the bane of the game. CC and an exorbinant amount of classes, RVR, Guild houses, unique grinds, world bosses that werent as bad as EQs, etc. I mean the things it brought to the table are limitless but, I think bringing back DAoC would be a terrible call. It would be like putting two warring tribes together in the same house without any restrictions. Not only would you alienate an older crowd, you'd cause an outcry to a company that kinda has a track record after Warhammer of not being able to keep up with its customers.
new frontiers and toa killed daoc, the game was soo much fun and you never had to look far for people to kill. just get to a mile gate, or past a mile gate and find some lowbies to kill, always made the big boys come out in force
DAoC was the best pvp mmo ever made, simple. Mythic's warhammer made me sick... how could they have fallen so far from what they first created. DAoC 2 would challenge and beat WoW IMO.
Honestly, if I were Mythic, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
No matter what you create as "2nd Edition", it will not live up to the rose-colored memories from years past. See: EQ2.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I agree with pretty much most of the article, however there is one part i strongly disagree on.
Limiting servers.
Although there is a valid point there, stating that it would create a closer comunity, limiting server population in this day and age just not advisable. We now live in an age where people are measuring and comparing the health of mmo's and the amount of people seen online at once factors heavily in that comparison.
As an example head over to the EVE online forums, you will on a daily basis see posts complaining that EVE is dying and losing players, heck they have 40k people playing on one server at a time.
Age of Conan is another one, thye usually have roughly 1.5k to 2k people playing on each server at one time in peek hours, a similar number to what is proposed. Look at their forums . "the game is dying" is a common theme.
Simply put nowdays people compare player numbers with other high population games such as WoW and EVE, if they don't see at least a 10% figure they will say the game is dead and move on.
Add into that people who play and invite their friends to play only to find the server is cap'd and their friends can't play on the same realm/server as them, the new player might say screw it i'll play something else, leaving the existing player with a decision .. to stay and lose a friend or to fidn another game to play with that friend .. i knwo what my choice would be.
Wow... DAoC. I tried a couple of other games a couple of years post DAoC... nothing ever challenged, thrilled, or inspired like DAoC. I haven't played a MMO for 5 or 6 years, and not interested in playing one again... A DAoC 2.. I'd play.
Like most people here, and those I am still in contact with, I think Mythic lost its customer base, or began to with ToA... I was okay with the idea of expansions, new races, new classes, but what truly aggravated me, along with so many others I know is that it forced a person to recreate their characters. I began DAoC 1 month after launch... I grinded to 50... and oh what a grind it was in early DAoC, all of that so that I could RvR...
I loved the realm pride, and guild pride that was in DAoC... I'm kind of gettng to be an old guy, but I'd play DAoC released in its early form again in a heartbeat, or a sequal that emulated the early edition....
Garrock "The Hand of Uruz"
Arsham Applefinder rr11 shaman
Those two things killed the game for me too.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
WAR was supposed to be the successor to DAoC but failed......ALot of people would like to see DAoC remade with todays graphics though......Like a previous post said, the CC in both WAR and DAoC made both games a nightmare.....
If Dark Age of Camelot updated and released a new version of the same game, I'd be fighting for a chance to be on the list of playtesters. DAoC was the first MMORPG I ever played and the only one I still miss. My friends and I still talk about it. I still chat occassionally with friends of mine who I met through DAoC. We always mention that if DAOC ever released a DAOC: 2 that we'd get the guild back together and own RVR again! We all stopped because it wasn't being updated well enough. There weren't enough CSRs to handle issues quickly and it started to die. It just needed a CGI makeover and more CSRs and it would have been set up. It truly was the best MMORPG ever. It was...EPIC. And I agree wholly with what was stated about how keeping the realms small made it more personal. Our guild knew what guilds to watch out for in RVR. We knew to avoid certain areas because they were "camping" areas for certain guilds and we knew the guilds (and lots of times the names of the characters and/or people). It was amazing and I challenge Mythic to bring it back. I think they'd be overwhelmed with the positive response. Just gotta update the graphics, races, etc. and you'll be all ready to roll. The premise and the setup of the game were the best. 3 realm RVR was epic. BGs were perfect. Yeah...I'm 31 years old and it makes me giddy like a school boy. I miss this game.
Joshua Manning
TPO Giankarlo-Guinevere
UNWAKEABLE NIGHTMARE
After WAR and TOR... I definitely do not want a sequel. DAOC2 would end up being some frankenstein monstrosity. I have no faith in either development group after those products. Things can change, but they will have to earn my respect again. Until then I am more than happy to let DAOC2 sit on a back burner.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.