I think the OP made this post because the basics of combat did seem to be difficult for some players to grasp in beta, many of whom called for changes which would have put the game more in line with traditional MMO combat.
Such as with the tank role, a lot of players complained that they weren't able to absorb enough damage to perform that duty and survive. But that was more because they insisted on playing a more traditional tank style of planting their feet, taunting, and depending on healing to keep them alive. DCU requires all characters to physically dodge and move, and that seemed hard for some people to grasp. Tanks taunt, roll/dodge the big blasts, and keep pouring on pressure to keep the attention focused on them. Personally I found that to be a nice change of pace from the tanking I've been accustomed to, it felt more active and skill based. I wouldn't call it twitch, however. You're very much reading and reacting to the situation, and playing which powers to use in combination (there are several power interactions to consider) and when.
But anyway, I suppose I was compelled to post because I think the thread was giving the impression that this was simply a twitch based action game, or a spam click-fest. I'd say it's a much deeper system than one realizes at first glance (easy to pick up/difficult to master) that definitely rewards a strategic approach along to quick reactions.
I'll probably play it as a buffer until SWTOR. It's an undeniably fun game, just not sure it's got longevity.
On the subject of ping, I've never had a problem and frankly don't know anyone who has. It is possible to have fast combat optimized for online play and DCUO seems to have managed that .
For those who don't like the pacing that's fine. You're free to enjoy slower gaming if you like. But dismissing one as less skilled that the other (either way you do it) is simply obnoxious. Do you really need an ego boost so badly that you're going to say your gaming implies deep skill while someone else's gaming doesn't? God knows I dislike first-person shooters, but I've never felt a need to dismiss them as unskilled just to justify my dislike and lack of success at them.
Here's the honest truth. DCUO involves much more attention to what's happening and reaction to what you see. And then you'll want to react reasonably fast. To me, this comes naturally because in traditionall MMOs I've always played fast-reaction classes - crowd control whenever it was available. And that's a class that pays attention already.
If you're "skill-based" MMO gaming involves turning on auto-attack and going to sleep, you'll hate DCUO. Good gamers can always do better than this, in any system (which is why slower games can,undeniably, involve skill) but that's the equivalent of button mashing in DCUO with no thought or plan. It can work, with enough of it, but it won't be rewarding. If you were a player who, even in slower paced MMOs, always tried to time your actions to best effect and paid attention to what was happening so you could do that ... you will love DUCO's combat system. That's what it's all about.
There are parts about DCUO that I don't love. But it's combat system shines. Players who never dug into MMO strategy seriously may fail to see it. For many of them, power = gear and with enough of it strategy stops mattering, so it may easily be something they were just handed. But for those who always tried to grab whatever edge is available, timing matters and always did. DCUO just takes that to the logical conclusion.
Assuming MMO "old schoolers" and "veterans" won't "get it," seems a little arrogant and presumptuous on your part in my opinion.
First of all.....reading your reasoning behind that statement in yellow/gold.....to me it sounds more like you're talking about WoW players from the specific comments you made. WoW players are not generally thought to be "old school" MMO'ers or veterans either one. Secondly, many of the ACTUAL "old school" players dating back to UO or FURTHER, like Meridian, NWN, and MUDs, are open-minded about the genre, have continued playing through many years of changes, and by nature they might be more into exploring changes. You shouldn't really assume "old schoolers" are all the same, and it's certainly a fallacy to call WoW players "old school." Maybe the terminology you were looking for was "last generation gamers" meaning NOT "new generation gamers."
I realize we're mostly talking semantics here, but I generally find it offensive to be lumped in with "easy mode" gamers and told that's old school. Old school wasn't particularly "easy mode." And I think DCUO combat sounds interesting, myself, so....I also agree with the post directly above mine about it being a preference.
^ This.
Classless systems are not new to true "old school" players. Neither are paper-rock-scissors combat systems. Advantages for skill versus time spent gaining skill points or levels are not new either. It's like the OP assumes that nothing existed before WoW, EQ, or UO. There were hundreds, maybe thousands, of multiplayer worlds with a variety different systems for combat and advancement.
If a MMO player that jumped into WoW (during its 2004 launch) is "old school" then what is a Meridian or Mud player? O.O
Assuming MMO "old schoolers" and "veterans" won't "get it," seems a little arrogant and presumptuous on your part in my opinion.
First of all.....reading your reasoning behind that statement in yellow/gold.....to me it sounds more like you're talking about WoW players from the specific comments you made. WoW players are not generally thought to be "old school" MMO'ers or veterans either one. Secondly, many of the ACTUAL "old school" players dating back to UO or FURTHER, like Meridian, NWN, and MUDs, are open-minded about the genre, have continued playing through many years of changes, and by nature they might be more into exploring changes. You shouldn't really assume "old schoolers" are all the same, and it's certainly a fallacy to call WoW players "old school." Maybe the terminology you were looking for was "last generation gamers" meaning NOT "new generation gamers."
I realize we're mostly talking semantics here, but I generally find it offensive to be lumped in with "easy mode" gamers and told that's old school. Old school wasn't particularly "easy mode." And I think DCUO combat sounds interesting, myself, so....I also agree with the post directly above mine about it being a preference.
^ This.
Classless systems are not new to true "old school" players. Neither are paper-rock-scissors combat systems. Advantages for skill versus time spent gaining skill points or levels are not new either. It's like the OP assumes that nothing existed before WoW, EQ, or UO. There were hundreds, maybe thousands, of multiplayer worlds with a variety different systems for combat and advancement.
If a MMO player that jumped into WoW (during its 2004 launch) is "old school" then what is a Meridian or Mud player? O.O
Wow is as "old school" as Kanye West...
Totally true! I'm definitely in that "old school" description of yours. DCUO is nothing new. Just a mix of things from other games and genres. True "old school" gamers have been playing and adjusting to all sorts of styles for many, many years. I don't think a true "old school" gamer has any trouble at all "getting" DCUO combat like the OP says.
Maybe somebody with little gaming experience at all, and only has played one or two "standard" MMORPG would find DCUO awkward.
I've been gaming online since the 1200 baud modem was fancy. I'm sure there are others here with more experience than me even. Anyhow, you can't get much more "old school" than me and I think DCUO combat is fun. I "get it". I like it.
Nice info OP. As an old school pc/mmo player who is quite old by today's standards your words are good news. I ike the idea behind the combat although I've never really done console games. I've grown tired of combat systems based on 'time spent' equipment and skills and welcome a change. At least now I feel better about ordering the game.
OzzallosRunes of Magic CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 35
DCUO Combat Demystified:
Street Fighter
Ikari Warriors
Streets of Rage
Mortal Combat
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Golden Axe
Ninja Gaiden
King of Fighters
Samurai Shodown
Dark Stalkers
etc etc etc
DCUO is a button masher with a light sprinkling of MMO. Trying to invest any more complexity into it than that is nothing more than mental masturbation.
So, it's not just your standard MMO with a new skin and spell effects placed over it? Sounds great! The listed games are indeed very different from your typical MMO, so from what I gather if another one of those is what you are looking for, this is not for you; if you want more of an action/fighter oriented game with a Super Hero theme then DCUO is a great game.
OzzallosRunes of Magic CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 35
Even button mashers have an audience. This game is clearly aimed at the console in terms of audience and complexity, with the PC market as an afterthought. As long as you can hang, you're golden since it does everything else right. Graphics, story, lore, audio... it's all bulletproof.
I'll warn you ahead of time, however... This game is barely an RPG and multiplayer instances are insanely bad in implimentation. You'll be punished for using a PC.
First let me start by saying what follows is more of a guide to understanding the combat system, how to spec a character early on to be competitive on the PvP servers, and the utmost basic understanding of combative tactics in DC Universe Online.
For those more interested in the discussion of why "Oldschool" MMOers won't get it, skip to the end.
In DCUO you essentially have 3 major kinds of attacks that you can utilize with your SKILL set. Your skill set is essentially your weapons set, which is made up of combo skills and innate powers. Each set is comprised of these things, and each of them have counter attacks associated with them.
When you start a new character, the most important attacks to have are basic, and available to you within your first 3 skill points. To stay competitive in PvP you must get these first.
1) Leap Attack : You need your leap attack. This is usually a skill utilizing the holding of the left mouse button, or the Square button on the PS3 controller. (X on the 360.)
2) Block Breaker: You need your block breaker. This skill is usually done by holding the right mouse button, or Triangle on the PS3 Controller (Y on the 360.)
3) Combos: You need your first combo set. This may vary depending on the weapon skill you choose. Your first combo could knock down the opponent, knock up the opponent, or stun them.
4) Blocking/Rolling: The last ability you need to know is how to block attacks which is set as shift for PC, Right Button for PS3 and 360 (not right trigger)
Now for basic mechanics. I.E. Rock, Paper, Scissors. Please use the list above for reference.
A) When an opponent does a combo meant to knock down, knock up, knock back, or stun, you block. This will result in them being knocked down.
D) When you see an opening in your opponents defenses, whether they are knocked down, stunned, or knocked up, utilize your combos to keep them from launching a counter attack.
E) If you see your opponent block and roll, use a leap attack to stun them so that they cannot get away. This will result in you stunning the other player.
F) If you see an opponent utilizing a power that requires a charge time, you leap attack or combo to interrupt. Very useful against healers. This will result in stopping the player from casting.
H) Lastly if and/or after you are knocked down, stunned, etc. use your block button to break out so you can continue fighting. For stuns it may call for repeated hitting of the left mouse button.
Following these basic steps will get your foot in the door for all those looking to PvP or for those just wanting to know more about the combat system and how it can help you in PvE too. PvE mobs will utilize knockbacks, stuns, etc. and knowing what these moves are and how to counter can be the difference between life and death.
Why do the "old school" MMO players not like this system? Theres no specific class structure dictating an advantage. A healer has no more advantage over a Tank who has no more advantage over a controller. There are no rock/paper/scissors classes, just attacks and counterattacks.
Theres no perfect mix of classes for your team members to win a battle, only the perfect mix of skillful players. Theres no click and wait for the next move, there are only actions and reactions, and quick thinking.
Theres no instant combination to win, nor are there pieces of gear that will overpower a player so much they will win every battle. There are gankers who gank the level 9 when they are level 20, and then the level 9 that kills the level 20 ganker. With the information above you may not be able to win every battle, but you'll make it damn hard for others to beat you.
Many games before this glorifies time spent and they have that time spent = your accomplishment both in the world and in battle. Here, a strong player can be known by his combative competency alone, and he can do so way before max level.
In this sense, the game is very progressive in terms of both combat, and level disparity. It may be quite possibly the most important part of the game, and one of the major pieces they've done right that will keep players playing. When the new blood coming in can be competitive as the veterans with just a little know how, it makes for a very engrossing game.
very useful. thanks. I noticed that, even just futzing around in pvp you can be somewhat competitive. I mean, I've been ganked by a 20 when I was 3, so that was no contest, but I just had a nice 1v1 air-to-air combat fight(which, let me just say FUCKING ROCKS) with a level 11 on my level 4 char and, although i lost, if I'd had some soder cola or some other powerup I probably had a good chance of winning. the pvp in the game is good. it need some rewards, some tweaks, but, it's good. having a very good time
very useful. thanks. I noticed that, even just futzing around in pvp you can be somewhat competitive. I mean, I've been ganked by a 20 when I was 3, so that was no contest, but I just had a nice 1v1 air-to-air combat fight(which, let me just say FUCKING ROCKS) with a level 11 on my level 4 char and, although i lost, if I'd had some soder cola or some other powerup I probably had a good chance of winning. the pvp in the game is good. it need some rewards, some tweaks, but, it's good. having a very good time
There are PVP quests if you play on the pvp server. You can find them on a wanted poster outside most police stations. They are generally go kill 10 members of the other side. It clearly states kills only count if the opponent you kill is within 5 levels of you. You will get some rep and some pvp tokens to use on gear and armour unlocks.
People keep using the term "button mashing", which, to my mind, means mindlessiy pushing buttons as fast as you can. I guess you could approach the game that way, but that isn;t the ideal way. Typical MMORPG's tend to be more button mashing, they just use keyboard keys rather than mouse buttons. Some people are also trying to make it sound like DCUO has a simpler combat system than other MMO's, which is not true. Most other MMO's are based off a turn based combat system. It's slower and requires less skill on the part of the player. They usually require getting into position and hitting keys in the same order over and over each fight. Combat is far more fast paced than a typical MMORPG, but certainly not less complicated.
It's typical old schools MMORPGers that call it button mashing. Mainly because they aren't use to mouse clicking to attack. They then make stupid references to console games like Street Fighter, that is no where near the same thing. People with an FPS background will be use to clicking the mouse to attack, but that is typically one click per attack. In DCUO you click in certain ways to perform combos. These combos have various results like stun, knockback, AoE effects, or simply more damage. Those along with the power buttons make for a more tactical fight.
Honestly, when I got into beta and saw that weapon combos were based off mouse click combinations I was expecting to hate the game. I am a long time MMORPG player and never liked the console games that required key combos for attacks. I do, however tend to be pretty open minded and don't give up because of initial perception. The game turned out to be a lot more fun than I expected. Yes, the game relies a bit more on my skill than than other MMORPG's. Some people coming from other MMORPG's will not like that. Other will find it a nice change of pace.
First let me start by saying what follows is more of a guide to understanding the combat system, how to spec a character early on to be competitive on the PvP servers, and the utmost basic understanding of combative tactics in DC Universe Online.
For those more interested in the discussion of why "Oldschool" MMOers won't get it, skip to the end.
In DCUO you essentially have 3 major kinds of attacks that you can utilize with your SKILL set. Your skill set is essentially your weapons set, which is made up of combo skills and innate powers. Each set is comprised of these things, and each of them have counter attacks associated with them.
When you start a new character, the most important attacks to have are basic, and available to you within your first 3 skill points. To stay competitive in PvP you must get these first.
1) Leap Attack : You need your leap attack. This is usually a skill utilizing the holding of the left mouse button, or the Square button on the PS3 controller. (X on the 360.)
2) Block Breaker: You need your block breaker. This skill is usually done by holding the right mouse button, or Triangle on the PS3 Controller (Y on the 360.)
3) Combos: You need your first combo set. This may vary depending on the weapon skill you choose. Your first combo could knock down the opponent, knock up the opponent, or stun them.
4) Blocking/Rolling: The last ability you need to know is how to block attacks which is set as shift for PC, Right Button for PS3 and 360 (not right trigger)
Now for basic mechanics. I.E. Rock, Paper, Scissors. Please use the list above for reference.
A) When an opponent does a combo meant to knock down, knock up, knock back, or stun, you block. This will result in them being knocked down.
D) When you see an opening in your opponents defenses, whether they are knocked down, stunned, or knocked up, utilize your combos to keep them from launching a counter attack.
E) If you see your opponent block and roll, use a leap attack to stun them so that they cannot get away. This will result in you stunning the other player.
F) If you see an opponent utilizing a power that requires a charge time, you leap attack or combo to interrupt. Very useful against healers. This will result in stopping the player from casting.
H) Lastly if and/or after you are knocked down, stunned, etc. use your block button to break out so you can continue fighting. For stuns it may call for repeated hitting of the left mouse button.
Following these basic steps will get your foot in the door for all those looking to PvP or for those just wanting to know more about the combat system and how it can help you in PvE too. PvE mobs will utilize knockbacks, stuns, etc. and knowing what these moves are and how to counter can be the difference between life and death.
Why do the "old school" MMO players not like this system? Theres no specific class structure dictating an advantage. A healer has no more advantage over a Tank who has no more advantage over a controller. There are no rock/paper/scissors classes, just attacks and counterattacks.
Theres no perfect mix of classes for your team members to win a battle, only the perfect mix of skillful players. Theres no click and wait for the next move, there are only actions and reactions, and quick thinking.
Theres no instant combination to win, nor are there pieces of gear that will overpower a player so much they will win every battle. There are gankers who gank the level 9 when they are level 20, and then the level 9 that kills the level 20 ganker. With the information above you may not be able to win every battle, but you'll make it damn hard for others to beat you.
Many games before this glorifies time spent and they have that time spent = your accomplishment both in the world and in battle. Here, a strong player can be known by his combative competency alone, and he can do so way before max level.
In this sense, the game is very progressive in terms of both combat, and level disparity. It may be quite possibly the most important part of the game, and one of the major pieces they've done right that will keep players playing. When the new blood coming in can be competitive as the veterans with just a little know how, it makes for a very engrossing game.
Great post, and I have to agree -- this game has that one key element -- skillful and strategic competitiveness -- that most MMO's lack.
Unfortunately, many players come in with the traditional MMO approach, thinking they can just do a set sequence of attacks or casts and end up getting destroyed by people who know these tactics. I frequently attack players 5 - 10 levels above my toon just for the thrill of trying to beat them. Some, of course, kick my butt, but I am able to defeat many of them with the right strategy. You have to think very quickly and look for tendencies ( a lot of people do the same punch-punch-lunge or cast-combo-block or whatever pattern). This would be impossible in most other MMO's. It's fun right from the start and after having maybe 10 levels you can contribute and directly compete in battles with other players.
GonesoloCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 70
I guess I'm what would be classed as "old school" as my first MMO was SWG and I've played quite a few since then including Eve, Everquest, AOC, CO, WOW and more. However I never really was the "number cruncher" player. Never wanted to work out the "golden build" or the Perfect set of Gear to make me UBER on which ever game I was playing.
Actually that was the mentallity that drove me away from a lot of games (especially EVE).
However I've been playing DCU since release and I have to say I LOVE the combat system. I'm still no "expert" at it (mostly due to having limited playing time due to RL stuff) but it's a combat system that "makes sense" and allows me to make the character I want to make without worrying that I don't have the Golden power set or the correct gear.
This was also one of the reasons I used to shy away from PvP as it was majoritvely dictated by GEAR/POWERSET combos. However PvP is something I am really considering trying on DCU.
I know I'm not the most skilled player out there (I've never owned a console and SUX at games like Street Fighter) but at least I know that with the combat system in DCU I at least have a fighting chance with the gear I WANT to wear without having to have an Excel spreadsheet setup to tell me the optimal gear/skills/weapons to be UBER in PvP.
I can PvP because I enjoy it without needing a maths degree to be effective at it.
First let me start by saying what follows is more of a guide to understanding the combat system, how to spec a character early on to be competitive on the PvP servers, and the utmost basic understanding of combative tactics in DC Universe Online.
For those more interested in the discussion of why "Oldschool" MMOers won't get it, skip to the end.
In DCUO you essentially have 3 major kinds of attacks that you can utilize with your SKILL set. Your skill set is essentially your weapons set, which is made up of combo skills and innate powers. Each set is comprised of these things, and each of them have counter attacks associated with them.
When you start a new character, the most important attacks to have are basic, and available to you within your first 3 skill points. To stay competitive in PvP you must get these first.
1) Leap Attack : You need your leap attack. This is usually a skill utilizing the holding of the left mouse button, or the Square button on the PS3 controller. (X on the 360.)
2) Block Breaker: You need your block breaker. This skill is usually done by holding the right mouse button, or Triangle on the PS3 Controller (Y on the 360.)
3) Combos: You need your first combo set. This may vary depending on the weapon skill you choose. Your first combo could knock down the opponent, knock up the opponent, or stun them.
4) Blocking/Rolling: The last ability you need to know is how to block attacks which is set as shift for PC, Right Button for PS3 and 360 (not right trigger)
Now for basic mechanics. I.E. Rock, Paper, Scissors. Please use the list above for reference.
A) When an opponent does a combo meant to knock down, knock up, knock back, or stun, you block. This will result in them being knocked down.
D) When you see an opening in your opponents defenses, whether they are knocked down, stunned, or knocked up, utilize your combos to keep them from launching a counter attack.
E) If you see your opponent block and roll, use a leap attack to stun them so that they cannot get away. This will result in you stunning the other player.
F) If you see an opponent utilizing a power that requires a charge time, you leap attack or combo to interrupt. Very useful against healers. This will result in stopping the player from casting.
H) Lastly if and/or after you are knocked down, stunned, etc. use your block button to break out so you can continue fighting. For stuns it may call for repeated hitting of the left mouse button.
Following these basic steps will get your foot in the door for all those looking to PvP or for those just wanting to know more about the combat system and how it can help you in PvE too. PvE mobs will utilize knockbacks, stuns, etc. and knowing what these moves are and how to counter can be the difference between life and death.
Why do the "old school" MMO players not like this system? Theres no specific class structure dictating an advantage. A healer has no more advantage over a Tank who has no more advantage over a controller. There are no rock/paper/scissors classes, just attacks and counterattacks.
Theres no perfect mix of classes for your team members to win a battle, only the perfect mix of skillful players. Theres no click and wait for the next move, there are only actions and reactions, and quick thinking.
Theres no instant combination to win, nor are there pieces of gear that will overpower a player so much they will win every battle. There are gankers who gank the level 9 when they are level 20, and then the level 9 that kills the level 20 ganker. With the information above you may not be able to win every battle, but you'll make it damn hard for others to beat you.
Many games before this glorifies time spent and they have that time spent = your accomplishment both in the world and in battle. Here, a strong player can be known by his combative competency alone, and he can do so way before max level.
In this sense, the game is very progressive in terms of both combat, and level disparity. It may be quite possibly the most important part of the game, and one of the major pieces they've done right that will keep players playing. When the new blood coming in can be competitive as the veterans with just a little know how, it makes for a very engrossing game.
make a thread insulting people who dont like your pet game and they sticky it for you.... nice. SOE's spin machine has reved up i see...
so lets make a little counter point to this short-stroking of dcuo
Chat is a joke yes, but tops on the list to be fixed...so....the sky is not falling.
Animations borked? Not sure what game you are playing, but DC looks stunning.
Specials not firing? I have yet to have this issue....Maybe you played beta? Maybe your internet connection is flawed?
Twitch combat....done right. DC combat blows all other MMOs away hands down. I am so tired of WoW clones.
Feels like they did it before? I really had to laugh at this one....DCUO is so many lightyears better then the NGE fiasco ever could be. I was a disgruntled SWG vet, and this remark is just so far out there and off base it's beyond words.
Couldn't it be that us old school players simply "prefer" the traditional style of combat? I had fun in the DU beta, did very well with the PvP combat. Never complained and had absolutely ZERO trouble with playing it or how the "system" works. I do however prefer Rift, I prefer the traditional style of gameplay found in MMOs like Rift, EQ2, EQ1, DAoC and so on...
Don't compare daoc to rift, a stupidly simlar mix of wow and war. They are nothing alike, none of those games compare to daoc and no one has made a game like daoc since.
Traditionally, RPG combat is more about equipment, stats and dice rolls where as FPS combat is more about twitch skills and fast thinking. So they are fundamentally different, period.
Assuming MMO "old schoolers" and "veterans" won't "get it," seems a little arrogant and presumptuous on your part in my opinion.
First of all.....reading your reasoning behind that statement in yellow/gold.....to me it sounds more like you're talking about WoW players from the specific comments you made. WoW players are not generally thought to be "old school" MMO'ers or veterans either one. Secondly, many of the ACTUAL "old school" players dating back to UO or FURTHER, like Meridian, NWN, and MUDs, are open-minded about the genre, have continued playing through many years of changes, and by nature they might be more into exploring changes. You shouldn't really assume "old schoolers" are all the same, and it's certainly a fallacy to call WoW players "old school." Maybe the terminology you were looking for was "last generation gamers" meaning NOT "new generation gamers."
I realize we're mostly talking semantics here, but I generally find it offensive to be lumped in with "easy mode" gamers and told that's old school. Old school wasn't particularly "easy mode." And I think DCUO combat sounds interesting, myself, so....I also agree with the post directly above mine about it being a preference.
Have to agree with Just1opinon here. I'd also like to add that most of us (apperently in your opinion,) "dumbass" "Oldschool" MMO'ers cut our teeth on everything from stand up arcade to early console, to computer games of all kinds. Far more of those games were twitch, special move combo strategy, gaming and not the MMO standard of mouse, WASD, and hotbar.
So frankly I'm confused why you felt this little insult was in any way necessary or even relevant in your break down of DCUO combat. Also on the subject of the DCUO combat system, I quite liked it, I thought it was the best part of the game. However while it may not be the norm in MMOs it is by no means new or unique considering it has been the staple of numerous games in all the other game venues of the past 25 years.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Comments
I think the OP made this post because the basics of combat did seem to be difficult for some players to grasp in beta, many of whom called for changes which would have put the game more in line with traditional MMO combat.
Such as with the tank role, a lot of players complained that they weren't able to absorb enough damage to perform that duty and survive. But that was more because they insisted on playing a more traditional tank style of planting their feet, taunting, and depending on healing to keep them alive. DCU requires all characters to physically dodge and move, and that seemed hard for some people to grasp. Tanks taunt, roll/dodge the big blasts, and keep pouring on pressure to keep the attention focused on them. Personally I found that to be a nice change of pace from the tanking I've been accustomed to, it felt more active and skill based. I wouldn't call it twitch, however. You're very much reading and reacting to the situation, and playing which powers to use in combination (there are several power interactions to consider) and when.
But anyway, I suppose I was compelled to post because I think the thread was giving the impression that this was simply a twitch based action game, or a spam click-fest. I'd say it's a much deeper system than one realizes at first glance (easy to pick up/difficult to master) that definitely rewards a strategic approach along to quick reactions.
I'll probably play it as a buffer until SWTOR. It's an undeniably fun game, just not sure it's got longevity.
so much effort to justify the bad combat in this game. i can understand it i guess SOE cant afford ANOTHER failure.
On the subject of ping, I've never had a problem and frankly don't know anyone who has. It is possible to have fast combat optimized for online play and DCUO seems to have managed that .
For those who don't like the pacing that's fine. You're free to enjoy slower gaming if you like. But dismissing one as less skilled that the other (either way you do it) is simply obnoxious. Do you really need an ego boost so badly that you're going to say your gaming implies deep skill while someone else's gaming doesn't? God knows I dislike first-person shooters, but I've never felt a need to dismiss them as unskilled just to justify my dislike and lack of success at them.
Here's the honest truth. DCUO involves much more attention to what's happening and reaction to what you see. And then you'll want to react reasonably fast. To me, this comes naturally because in traditionall MMOs I've always played fast-reaction classes - crowd control whenever it was available. And that's a class that pays attention already.
If you're "skill-based" MMO gaming involves turning on auto-attack and going to sleep, you'll hate DCUO. Good gamers can always do better than this, in any system (which is why slower games can,undeniably, involve skill) but that's the equivalent of button mashing in DCUO with no thought or plan. It can work, with enough of it, but it won't be rewarding. If you were a player who, even in slower paced MMOs, always tried to time your actions to best effect and paid attention to what was happening so you could do that ... you will love DUCO's combat system. That's what it's all about.
There are parts about DCUO that I don't love. But it's combat system shines. Players who never dug into MMO strategy seriously may fail to see it. For many of them, power = gear and with enough of it strategy stops mattering, so it may easily be something they were just handed. But for those who always tried to grab whatever edge is available, timing matters and always did. DCUO just takes that to the logical conclusion.
TLDR Version: Clickfest.
Bump epic info.
^ This.
Classless systems are not new to true "old school" players. Neither are paper-rock-scissors combat systems. Advantages for skill versus time spent gaining skill points or levels are not new either. It's like the OP assumes that nothing existed before WoW, EQ, or UO. There were hundreds, maybe thousands, of multiplayer worlds with a variety different systems for combat and advancement.
If a MMO player that jumped into WoW (during its 2004 launch) is "old school" then what is a Meridian or Mud player? O.O
Wow is as "old school" as Kanye West...
Totally true! I'm definitely in that "old school" description of yours. DCUO is nothing new. Just a mix of things from other games and genres. True "old school" gamers have been playing and adjusting to all sorts of styles for many, many years. I don't think a true "old school" gamer has any trouble at all "getting" DCUO combat like the OP says.
Maybe somebody with little gaming experience at all, and only has played one or two "standard" MMORPG would find DCUO awkward.
I've been gaming online since the 1200 baud modem was fancy. I'm sure there are others here with more experience than me even. Anyhow, you can't get much more "old school" than me and I think DCUO combat is fun. I "get it". I like it.
Nice info OP. As an old school pc/mmo player who is quite old by today's standards your words are good news. I ike the idea behind the combat although I've never really done console games. I've grown tired of combat systems based on 'time spent' equipment and skills and welcome a change. At least now I feel better about ordering the game.
DCUO Combat Demystified:
Street Fighter
Ikari Warriors
Streets of Rage
Mortal Combat
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Golden Axe
Ninja Gaiden
King of Fighters
Samurai Shodown
Dark Stalkers
etc etc etc
DCUO is a button masher with a light sprinkling of MMO. Trying to invest any more complexity into it than that is nothing more than mental masturbation.
So, it's not just your standard MMO with a new skin and spell effects placed over it? Sounds great! The listed games are indeed very different from your typical MMO, so from what I gather if another one of those is what you are looking for, this is not for you; if you want more of an action/fighter oriented game with a Super Hero theme then DCUO is a great game.
Even button mashers have an audience. This game is clearly aimed at the console in terms of audience and complexity, with the PC market as an afterthought. As long as you can hang, you're golden since it does everything else right. Graphics, story, lore, audio... it's all bulletproof.
I'll warn you ahead of time, however... This game is barely an RPG and multiplayer instances are insanely bad in implimentation. You'll be punished for using a PC.
There are PVP quests if you play on the pvp server. You can find them on a wanted poster outside most police stations. They are generally go kill 10 members of the other side. It clearly states kills only count if the opponent you kill is within 5 levels of you. You will get some rep and some pvp tokens to use on gear and armour unlocks.
People keep using the term "button mashing", which, to my mind, means mindlessiy pushing buttons as fast as you can. I guess you could approach the game that way, but that isn;t the ideal way. Typical MMORPG's tend to be more button mashing, they just use keyboard keys rather than mouse buttons. Some people are also trying to make it sound like DCUO has a simpler combat system than other MMO's, which is not true. Most other MMO's are based off a turn based combat system. It's slower and requires less skill on the part of the player. They usually require getting into position and hitting keys in the same order over and over each fight. Combat is far more fast paced than a typical MMORPG, but certainly not less complicated.
It's typical old schools MMORPGers that call it button mashing. Mainly because they aren't use to mouse clicking to attack. They then make stupid references to console games like Street Fighter, that is no where near the same thing. People with an FPS background will be use to clicking the mouse to attack, but that is typically one click per attack. In DCUO you click in certain ways to perform combos. These combos have various results like stun, knockback, AoE effects, or simply more damage. Those along with the power buttons make for a more tactical fight.
Honestly, when I got into beta and saw that weapon combos were based off mouse click combinations I was expecting to hate the game. I am a long time MMORPG player and never liked the console games that required key combos for attacks. I do, however tend to be pretty open minded and don't give up because of initial perception. The game turned out to be a lot more fun than I expected. Yes, the game relies a bit more on my skill than than other MMORPG's. Some people coming from other MMORPG's will not like that. Other will find it a nice change of pace.
lol old school w ill not get it. well im has old school has they get played from eq1 to almost every mmo out even horizons
).
and to me this is just a fun game not the same has all the other mmos thats great news
). a change of pace something out of the norm.
will not be my main mmo a will have 2 on the go this for the ps3 and soon rift for the pc
.
I guess I'm what would be classed as "old school" as my first MMO was SWG and I've played quite a few since then including Eve, Everquest, AOC, CO, WOW and more. However I never really was the "number cruncher" player. Never wanted to work out the "golden build" or the Perfect set of Gear to make me UBER on which ever game I was playing.
Actually that was the mentallity that drove me away from a lot of games (especially EVE).
However I've been playing DCU since release and I have to say I LOVE the combat system. I'm still no "expert" at it (mostly due to having limited playing time due to RL stuff) but it's a combat system that "makes sense" and allows me to make the character I want to make without worrying that I don't have the Golden power set or the correct gear.
This was also one of the reasons I used to shy away from PvP as it was majoritvely dictated by GEAR/POWERSET combos. However PvP is something I am really considering trying on DCU.
I know I'm not the most skilled player out there (I've never owned a console and SUX at games like Street Fighter) but at least I know that with the combat system in DCU I at least have a fighting chance with the gear I WANT to wear without having to have an Excel spreadsheet setup to tell me the optimal gear/skills/weapons to be UBER in PvP.
I can PvP because I enjoy it without needing a maths degree to be effective at it.
make a thread insulting people who dont like your pet game and they sticky it for you.... nice. SOE's spin machine has reved up i see...
so lets make a little counter point to this short-stroking of dcuo
chat is a joke
specials not firing
animations borked
no social content
fast-paced twitch combat
seems like they tried this once before...
Chat is a joke yes, but tops on the list to be fixed...so....the sky is not falling.
Animations borked? Not sure what game you are playing, but DC looks stunning.
Specials not firing? I have yet to have this issue....Maybe you played beta? Maybe your internet connection is flawed?
Twitch combat....done right. DC combat blows all other MMOs away hands down. I am so tired of WoW clones.
Feels like they did it before? I really had to laugh at this one....DCUO is so many lightyears better then the NGE fiasco ever could be. I was a disgruntled SWG vet, and this remark is just so far out there and off base it's beyond words.
DCUO is MUCH better then I expected.
P.S. why the hell is this thread stickied?
Maybe "Oldschool" MMO'ers like their MMO's to have more than just combat?
It is an FPS-like combat, whats more to get?
Traditionally, RPG combat is more about equipment, stats and dice rolls where as FPS combat is more about twitch skills and fast thinking. So they are fundamentally different, period.
My gaming blog
To be accurate not only do we not "get it" but we have absolutely no desire to "get it". It is nothing more than a button mash beatemup game.
One positive is it will suck up all the retards and leave the real MMOs to the actual MMO players.
Have to agree with Just1opinon here. I'd also like to add that most of us (apperently in your opinion,) "dumbass" "Oldschool" MMO'ers cut our teeth on everything from stand up arcade to early console, to computer games of all kinds. Far more of those games were twitch, special move combo strategy, gaming and not the MMO standard of mouse, WASD, and hotbar.
So frankly I'm confused why you felt this little insult was in any way necessary or even relevant in your break down of DCUO combat. Also on the subject of the DCUO combat system, I quite liked it, I thought it was the best part of the game. However while it may not be the norm in MMOs it is by no means new or unique considering it has been the staple of numerous games in all the other game venues of the past 25 years.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Guess I'm an "Oldschool", started playing EQ1 for like 11 years ago, I can only say ... I LOVE DCUO.