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Are pay as You go even worth it ?

2

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  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    Originally posted by Tyrrhon

    Simply put, they just made good game worse and more expensive and that bugs me because it is what I dislike about the whole F2P business, not the idea of selling product instead of service.

    this is the part of your attitude  I do not get at all, is not the 15 dollar a month subscription rate still available if you do not want to pay as you go ?

    They offered you some more choices, no one is forcing anything on you. I am a lifer but I don't think the subscribers saw any changes at all other than increased population. I mean if you do not like the F2P options then subscribe or do not play at all if it is really that unpleasant for you.

    I miss DAoC

  • TyrrhonTyrrhon PrahaPosts: 412Member

    The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

    Your whole point actually is that old P2P LOTRO was better than the F2P offer. Doh, that is what I am saying, we are in agreement.

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member

    Originally posted by Jackdog

    this might be a dumb question but if you sub for a month, is swift travel, extra character slots, etc unlocked permenently? If so that would be cheaper than buying the scrolls, character slots etc wouldn't it?

    Swift travel no.

    Character slots opened as a VIP, no.

    Character slots purchased from the store, yes.

    Auction access from being a VIP, no.

    Auction access bought from the store, yes.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • crazynannycrazynanny PopowoPosts: 173Member

    Well I know what I wanted. No reason to discuss with trolls implying I want everything for free.
    Hopefully Turbine will be smart enough to see that and sell me what I want as this is cash for them.

  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLPosts: 2,102Member

    Originally posted by Tyrrhon

    The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

    If people think selling on AH and having swift travel is important then they can either buy it from the store or go VIP. What is hard to understand?

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    Originally posted by Papadam

    Originally posted by Tyrrhon

    The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

    If people think selling on AH and having swift travel is important then they can either buy it from the store or go VIP. What is hard to understand?

    I agree , Turbine gave people another option which is good, it's not for everyone but that's just tough.

    BTW one more button on the UI bar is immersion breaking? stretching shit out a bit to find something to whine about arn't we?

    I am not surprised though, the games population has doubled in the last week so I am sure the trolls will continue to nitpick anything they can

    I miss DAoC

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,776Member

    Originally posted by crazynanny

    After reading forums here and official ones I heard so much about hybrid payment being a reasonable thing for people, as it gives a choice to pay as You go or subscribe. Subscription is quite obvious so I want to consider pay as You go.

    So payment for all areas and unlocks is more or less cost of what lifetimers(perma VIP) paid. But is it worth it? Considering issue with no sensible swift travels available in turbine store(60 minute one is a joke). This alone makes me feel like 2nd rate customer. Kinda felt bad when questing(epic books) with friend and recognizing I have to trot over Angmar on horse as swifts are no avail. Now if I imagine going to Rivendell from there(like 30 minutes ride) I get kinda annoyed. I thought that quest pack bought = all swifts available.

    I sure hope that this will change as basic things like this are nearly gamebreaking and I thought pay as You go was a reasonable option.

     My problem with posts like this one is simply in the fact that you are spending money on the game.  Now for those out there who truly are in a position to not be able to afford to pay fifteen a month I assure you they wouldn't be complaining about the quality of the free stuff they get but then we always get folks like the op who have the freedom to sub choses not to and then complains about the quality of the service.  you can sub to the original game and by the time you work your way to level fifty you will probably have easily been able to afford the two expansions for free (which the rest of us had to pay for).

    Maybe it's just not meant for me but these posts complaining about the free content are just plain redundant when you can still sub for fifteen a month and get five hundred store points per month as well.  Simply put if you have a problem with the quality of the free game then pony up the dough like the rest of us are.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • Roman291Roman291 Herndon, VAPosts: 97Member Uncommon

    Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

  • jaxsundanejaxsundane milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,776Member

    Originally posted by Tyrrhon

    The 15/month is still valid. But it does not give all members of my party fast travel and all gatherers access to auction and it does not remove obnoxious immersion breaking buttons and it does not put me at equal footing with everyone else. It did all of this before. It now gives me the ability to spend more money though. Got it?

    Your whole point actually is that old P2P LOTRO was better than the F2P offer. Doh, that is what I am saying, we are in agreement.

     You are also aware that before free to play launched when an expansion launched all party members had to have it to access that content too right?  What's the difference between that and say having a friend you think you are headed off to quest withonly to find out he doesn't have access to the quests of that area?  Same with Swift travel unless I missed the change you have to have visited a place atleast once to swift travel and some places even have reputation and deed restrictions, so haven't you already partied with people only to find you had to wait for them to arrive?

    Wow I think I noticed two new buttons sitting right next to a bunch of buttons that were already there and that's breaking your immersion?

    Lastly as far as the cash shop goes potions can still be made/purchased in game same with food etc. why would you need to spend more than the fifteen a month you spend subbing if you haven't done so to this point.  Basically that's to say I am totally self sufficient and have a supreme master for every craft and will never need to waste points on things like potions,scrolls etc. but even if you don't did you not have guildies to make these things etc.

    but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....

  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Why would you need to know?, MOPosts: 683Member

    Originally posted by Roman291

    Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

    Unless I am mis-reading this, every P2P MMO offers this.. $15 or $10 for one month of play, then if you don't pay you can't play..

    --------------------
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    -Currently playing Aion.
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  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Originally posted by MaGicBush

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Originally posted by crazynanny

     




    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Pay as you go is just that, pay as you go. It should really only be used by 3 types of people. 1) Those that want to check out the game but aren't ready to make an investment in it. 2) Those who are very very casual and don't have much time to play, so they play for an hour here and there and drop in money when they need something. 3) The super cheap who think they should never have to pay for anything and are willing to grind out Turbine points/run everywhere since they don't want to pay for swift travel.

     

    You are NOT supposed to have all the benefits as those who sub unless you pay a significant amount of money, simple as that. If you want swift travel then keep paying for it or sub. Subscription is the smart choice and as people have said on MMORPG a million times, it is about the same cost as going to the movies ONCE in an entire month.






    So all the buzz about Turbine hybrid payment model being great, innovative and a more convenient way for people to pay, was just marketing? I thought the reason of cash shop being brought to give a choice - You sub and don't care. Or You pay as You go. From what You are writing it seems not. Subscribe or be gimped. Thanks for clearing that one for me.

     

     If you are going to play hard and level fast, pay as you go isn't going to work for you. The rate at which you will have to buy content and perks will be expensive therefore a subscription is the way to go.

     

    If you don't play much/level fast then you can likely make F2P be cheaper month to month by a bit. And you can take two weeks to a month off without feeling like you are wasting your money.

     

    It really isn't a tough concept. The problem is that people who like to game several hours a night WANT to not have to pay for their gaming so they keep getting mad when f2p games still cost them money. They don't get the having to pay for entertainment idea.

    Honestly not understanding this much, how is subbing better than purchasing areas of the game permanently? People have summed up that to buy all the zones for the original game minus expacs is only $53(which I have MoM already). That's less than 4 month's of paying for a sub, a sub is monthly therefore after 4 month's your permanently saving money since you have the zones. The only real benefit a sub gets is swift travel, everything else is unlockable and you will technically save money in the long run if you don't sub, especially if you play lots of alts(like I do).

    As for the topic, I really dont think swift travel is a big deal at all. I could care less if I have it, I can take my time exploring the world better and watch as I ride. Back in EQ days you could not "swift travel" anywhere lol, you had to walk to where you needed to go. If it was on the other side of the world you had at least a 5 hour walk to get there(prior to whichever of the thousand expansions that game had that added the portals).

     You only covered the zones. What about the pack space, character slots, swift travel etc etc etc. I would wager that buying everything/being VIP for a year are similar cost in the long run. One is over time so the payments are less, and one is heavier up front. The advantage of the store being you keep it forever and with VIP if you drop down to free mode then you lose access to it all. But at the same time obviously there will constantly be more things added to the store which you will need to keep buying as a free person or keep getting as a VIP.

     

    If you want to hop right in and have access to everything and not hit roadblocks then throwing $15 at it the first month is the cheaper and easier method to use in my opinion.

  • Roman291Roman291 Herndon, VAPosts: 97Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MaGicBush

    Originally posted by Roman291

    Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

    Unless I am mis-reading this, every P2P MMO offers this.. $15 or $10 for one month of play, then if you don't pay you can't play..

    I'm talking about like a time card thing, but without the card. Most MMO's do have time cards, but it's a hassle to go to the right store with the card.

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    when my daughter was about 11 years old one night she pitched a fit because the wife had bought plain chocolate ice cream instead of mint chocolate chip. I told my daughter to get 5 dollars from her room and I would  be happy to run to the store and let her buy whatever flavor she wanted. I took her about five seconds to decide the "free" chocolate would be just fine.

    I miss DAoC

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,246Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by crazynanny

    So payment for all areas and unlocks is more or less cost of what lifetimers(perma VIP) paid. But is it worth it? Considering issue with no sensible swift travels available in turbine store(60 minute one is a joke). This alone makes me feel like 2nd rate customer. Kinda felt bad when questing(epic books) with friend and recognizing I have to trot over Angmar on horse as swifts are no avail. Now if I imagine going to Rivendell from there(like 30 minutes ride) I get kinda annoyed. I thought that quest pack bought = all swifts available.

    I sure hope that this will change as basic things like this are nearly gamebreaking and I thought pay as You go was a reasonable option.

    Agree about the temp swift travel store options.  They should just sell in # of uses.

    Many swift travel options in the upper levels, and in your example, are locked to all players until a certain level, certain quest completed, or certain deed is earned.  So you may not be looking at a freebie player block.

    Personally, I think the whole idea is that if you really like the game, you'll pay for a VIP sub.  I suppose, if you like the game so much that you'll grind every single deed on several characters so you can get the content for free, then more power to ya.  But it was always intended that the VIP's get the best bang for the buck.  At least that's how I see it.

    SO, back to the original question.  Is pay as you go worth it... combining grinded points from deeds along with some extra cash based points to buy stuff here and there and put up with not having other things, I suppose it would be, if you didn't play religiously.  But if you're playing all the time, crafting and selling, raiding, deep in a guild, etc, it just makes more sense to go VIP.

  • NeblessNebless Hammond, ORPosts: 939Member Common

    Originally posted by Traced

    I keep reading in this thread that non subs can't sue swift travel....I'm confused, cause I can. I did have to spend 200ish points to unlock the ride skill, and I hadd to buy the 500 silver started horse as far as mounts go, but I never had a problem with swift travel. I have it, have had it, and still have it.

     That's not Swift Travel.  What you've discribed is just learning the riding skill and buying a mount.  Then riding where you want to go. 

    What people mean when they talk about Swift Travel is an almost instant porting to the destination stable.  You get on the rental mount at your start position.  The screen shows you starting out, then goes to a load screen, load screen ends and shows you arriving at your destination.

    Swift travel is available to all inside the starter zones, but stops for non-sub's once you leave those area's.  Cost's a bit more than normal rental travel, but gets you to the next place alot quicker.

    SWG - AoC - PotBS - DDO - LotRO - STO - GnH - SWToR

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,246Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MaGicBush

    Originally posted by Roman291

    Honestly I like the F2P plan, but it's not perfect. Honestly, I've noticed that all F2P MMO's with microtransactions are somewhat pay 2 win. What I think some MMO should try a Pay For Time with the option of a Subscription business play. Like I buy 1 month for $X before I start playing then at the end of that month I wouldn't be able to play.

    Unless I am mis-reading this, every P2P MMO offers this.. $15 or $10 for one month of play, then if you don't pay you can't play..

    Maybe they mean, not having to buy the client?

    I'd agree with that, except that most MMO's are technically just that, after a few months.  Most boxes hit $20 4-6 months out and come with a free month.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    If have the feeling we are going back and forth with the same points over and over again.

     

    Maybe look at it from another angle:

    1. There is no way to gain permanent swift travel for Premium members. Becoming a VIP for one month doesn't do it, you can't get it by repgrinding ingame or buy it for a onetime fee from the store.

    2. This is inconsistant. Its not the way it works with pretty much any other limitation. Currently people talk about monsterplay and swifttravel as the two features being VIP only, and Turbine already said they would like to see a Monsterplay option for F2P players in the store.

    3. What sense does it make to have swift travel as the gamedefining feature difference between Premium and VIP?

     

    I mean Monsterplay, it would make sense for a myriad of reasons to not have it available to F2P players. If you want PvP you need to subscribe fine. But minor gameplay conveniences should not be part of the premium or VIP deal. They are too small to be a deciding factor, so all you end up doing is annoying people. A free player might decide to subscribe if he gets annoyed by being free enough, but a premium player who already spent money for content will just be annoyed. He won't drop 100$ on the game and then go "oh lets subscribe too so i can get swift travel".

  • The thing about LOTRO vs DDO is that the "free" turbine points are based on Deeds (which are generally very boring to get) vs just doing normal content.

     

    So, while people may farm TP in DDO they still get a good amount either way.  In LOTRO you can get ALOT more deeds by dedicated farming.  It is very easy to leave deeds partially finished in LOTRO.

     

    I suspect LOTRO will not be as nice to pay as you go, although I am sure its doable just fine.

  • MaGicBushMaGicBush Why would you need to know?, MOPosts: 683Member

    Originally posted by gestalt11

    The thing about LOTRO vs DDO is that the "free" turbine points are based on Deeds (which are generally very boring to get) vs just doing normal content.

     

    So, while people may farm TP in DDO they still get a good amount either way.  In LOTRO you can get ALOT more deeds by dedicated farming.  It is very easy to leave deeds partially finished in LOTRO.

     

    I suspect LOTRO will not be as nice to pay as you go, although I am sure its doable just fine.

    Well according to Turbine this is intended to change soon from a thread I read on the official forums, grr tried finding the thread but read it about 6 hours ago lol. Was a suggestion thread about the in-store purchasable items from a player. He stated that he cannot specifically state what is changing, but all suggestions including swift travel are under review right now. DDO had similiar issues on its transition to F2P, and ended being great for casual/premium members. Hopefully the same will happen with time and tweaking on LotRO.

    --------------------
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    -Currently playing Aion.
    -Played SWTOR, UO, EQ, AoC, WOW, War, LoTRO, FFXI, Rift, DFO.

  • UOvetUOvet Fort Myers, FLPosts: 514Member

    I just subbed so I didn't have to worry about all of it. I mean..it's only $15 a month or less. Just drink 3 less beers this month.

  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Originally posted by UOvet

    I just subbed so I didn't have to worry about all of it. I mean..it's only $15 a month or less. Just drink 3 less beers this month.

    Or eat less, because lets face it there are a couple gamers around that have a few extra pounds for hard times(im also a bit "prepared"). And i resent the public opinion that drinking beer makes you fat, calories make you fat and beer has less of those little buggers than applejuice. 

     

    Which reminds me, you know what calories are right? Those are tiny little fellers that creep out at night and shrink your clothes. Blasted buggers.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    I think Turbines f2p is great.  It lets people trial the game, or pop in and out casually with no commitment. Ofcourse if you are hardcore then having a sub might actually save you money.  Maybe go for the $10 a month for 3 months plan if that is still an option.  For casuals though, f2p is definitely a viable option.

     

    I was thinking that if you had loved ones or friends far away you could use it as a virtual chat room.  I mean, what a beautiful chat room, lol !  If your bored, just do some quests will you chit chat.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    If a sub actually had what they had before the change after the change, it might not be that bad.  Yet, depending on playstyle - the sub is still going to end up spending more money than they were before the change.  There are just some odd things with the hybrid model.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • JackdogJackdog Charleston, SCPosts: 6,344Member

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    If a sub actually had what they had before the change after the change, it might not be that bad.  Yet, depending on playstyle - the sub is still going to end up spending more money than they were before the change.  There are just some odd things with the hybrid model.

    As a lVIP I have noticed no changes at all and have no idea what you are referring to ? Explain in detail please what changes you are implying they made to to VIP's.

    I miss DAoC

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by Jackdog

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    If a sub actually had what they had before the change after the change, it might not be that bad.  Yet, depending on playstyle - the sub is still going to end up spending more money than they were before the change.  There are just some odd things with the hybrid model.

    As a lVIP I have noticed no changes at all and have no idea what you are referring to ? Explain in detail please what changes you are implying they made to to VIP's.

    Not sure I follow what you do not follow.  Perhaps it is the nature of what a sub had before compared to what they have now.  That is more of a SUB v. APM thing.  It is not a case of stating that the player has lost something that they have to buy again.  It is a case that depending on their playstyle, the sub is going to spend more now than before to keep pace.  Pacing, I suppose would be what was lost...

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

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