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Which MMORPG makes the "grind" most worthy or enjoyable for u?

KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 897Member Uncommon

I either feel way too behind with old games like Ultima Online, Everquest 2, EVE Online or I can't find variety of fun, innovative  things in recently released games. Some of those fun things for me used to be player housing, character development (which seems so limited now), fun crafting, freedom and meaningful PvP, and overall feeling like I am literally part of the world.

Discuss released games only and guess FFXIV can count too. My biggest problem with MMORPG's is I don't find the drive, the will as before to go "hardcore" on a current MMORPG.

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Comments

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Your comment about feeling behind catches my eye.   This conflict between seniority and barriers-to-entry is an interesting topic to me.  How can a game reward vets for their persistence without putting newbies at the base of depressingly high mountain at same time?

    ( I fear I haven't played enough different games through to their endgame to give you any informed suggestions )

  • project8sixproject8six Bellevue, WAPosts: 271Member

    I had to take a long break from MMOs to be able to grind again. Currently went back to Anarchy Online and have been very much enjoying leveling and twinking new characters. try playing some single player games or even multiplayer non MMOs like SC2 to give yourself a break.

    die. <3

  • terroniterroni Ya, INPosts: 935Member

    I really enjoy grinding in Guild Wars(yeah not an mmo) because it's like honing an art (unless you just copy builds) It's fun seeing how much you can do and the ways you can do it.

    I also enjoyed grinding in Fallen Earth(beta). Basically found an ideal situation in which mobs were like free XP.

    I think the crafting aspect of FFXIV makes the grind more enjoyable. The loot you get can be used to create stuff, making the grind profitable. I see PvE as resource gathering in that game.

    The only game I played that has housing was Vanguard. Gathering the materials for a house, guild hall, or a ship was a monumental grind. It was fun and the gathering we did in groups so it made it social also.

    Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Asheron's Call all the way.

     

    The loot system means that while you are out "grinding" your levels that next kill could have the best weapon/piece of gear on it.

     

    The rare system that has been recently updated means any creature in the game could drop that truly amazing rare.

     

    Monthly content updates means constantly having new things to do. 11 years worth of these updates means there is a ton of content in game to explore.

     

    Designing my character to fit my playstyle instead of having to be stuck with class X and perform role B.

     

    Truly the best game out there.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon

    I would say lineage 2, though the separate grind to make in game money was what did me in.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Your comment about feeling behind catches my eye.   This conflict between seniority and barriers-to-entry is an interesting topic to me.  How can a game reward vets for their persistence without putting newbies at the base of depressingly high mountain at same time?

    ( I fear I haven't played enough different games through to their endgame to give you any informed suggestions )

     The problem only occurs when the player has the wrong mindset.

     

    People join into existing MMOs, and due to the WoW system of "The game starts at max level" people approach all MMOs that way now. So they try to power game to the max level which becomes boring and tedious.

     

    In order to enjoy an MMO you can't think "I have to be level X to have fun." Instead you have to think "I'll play to have fun and not worry about levels." Then you truly start exploring content and the world and everything is instantly far more enjoyable.

     

    The "I want what that guy has who's been playing for 5 years" mentality just leads to frustration and disappointment.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Snarlingwolf, I agree with most of your post (I tend to play soloish PvE so it's pretty easy for me to just focus on having fun - I just make sure I avoid any guides or spoilers and just explore the game as I encounter it).   But even a wander-the-path person like me faces this issue as soon as I start interacting with the community. 

    There is a sort of subtle concept of "citizenship" - that you don't really have a place in the culture of the game until you have reached the endgame.  It comes out differently in different games.  Sometimes it's just a loneliness in the low-level parts of a world.  Sometimes strangers judge your words by the accomplishments of the character you play.  Sometimes there are mechanical barriers or reward that drive home a sense of "you are a second class player".

    So although I agree that people should focus on the subjective enjoyment of each day they log in, I think that the dynamics of vet-newbie divisions can be a real point of friction in the community and a barrier to enjoying a game.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Snarlingwolf, I agree with most of your post (I tend to play soloish PvE so it's pretty easy for me to just focus on having fun - I just make sure I avoid any guides or spoilers and just explore the game as I encounter it).   But even a wander-the-path person like me faces this issue as soon as I start interacting with the community. 

    There is a sort of subtle concept of "citizenship" - that you don't really have a place in the culture of the game until you have reached the endgame.  It comes out differently in different games.  Sometimes it's just a loneliness in the low-level parts of a world.  Sometimes strangers judge your words by the accomplishments of the character you play.  Sometimes there are mechanical barriers or reward that drive home a sense of "you are a second class player".

    So although I agree that people should focus on the subjective enjoyment of each day they log in, I think that the dynamics of vet-newbie divisions can be a real point of friction in the community and a barrier to enjoying a game.

     It's no different then having people on the street judging someone else because of how they look, what they wear, or who they are. You can't let those types of people bother you in any setting. I also have to say in all the MMOs I've played I have not noticed much of this.

     

    There is the reverse of those people as well which should be brought into consideration. I've joined many MMOs and basically said "I'm new how's it going" and had people come help me and walk me through stuff just because they wanted to. I think in most games you'll find just as many of these people as the other kind.

     

    The only game where it is probably bad (and a game I don't play because it has so many flaws) is WoW. Between the type of community that game has, along with stuff like gear score and 100% of the focus in design being on end-game, I am sure it is a significant issue there.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf (snipped)

     

    I've joined many MMOs and basically said "I'm new how's it going" and had people come help me and walk me through stuff just because they wanted to.

    I'm more of the "I'm new, please don't tell me *anything* I want to figure it all out for myself" type :)

    ( as for WoW, I honestly didn't find the community any better or worse than any other game I've tried - although admittedly I didn't do any dungeons which I hear is where the real friction between different playstyles comes up; the much-maligned WoW message boards are fluffy kittens next to the UO boards :)  )

     

    But this is getting rather far off the original what-mature-game-has-the-best-grind-to-endgame topic of the thread.  Sorry.

  • scuubeedooscuubeedoo ZagrebPosts: 458Member

    Originally posted by terroni

    I really enjoy grinding in Guild Wars(yeah not an mmo) because it's like honing an art (unless you just copy builds) It's fun seeing how much you can do and the ways you can do it.

    [...]

    Err, what exactly do you grind in GW? I hope you are not talking about the 20 levels needed to max your character...

    "Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars – combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon

    I enjoyed the level grind in Lineage 2. When you got to different armor grades you felt accomplished. Also getting to pvp at higher levels made it all worth it.

  • terroniterroni Ya, INPosts: 935Member

    Originally posted by scuubeedoo

    Originally posted by terroni

    I really enjoy grinding in Guild Wars(yeah not an mmo) because it's like honing an art (unless you just copy builds) It's fun seeing how much you can do and the ways you can do it.

    [...]

    Err, what exactly do you grind in GW? I hope you are not talking about the 20 levels needed to max your character...

    I think the actual term is "Farming"(glorified grinding). Minotaurs, bosses, the like.

    Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.

  • DerWotanDerWotan NorrathPosts: 1,012Member

    I really enjoyed grinding in Everquest 1, Vanguard and Aion. I like slow progression because it gives some sort of little rewards like "yeah finally another skill, armor or wooohooo I made it all the way to max lvl".

    As much as I enjoy grinding the most important part for me is group grinding: I like playing with others working together in order to achieve a goal.  Did also like the faction grind back in burning crusade.

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • thecrapthecrap crapPosts: 433Member

    None grinding is stupid and immediatley turns me away from games

  • DismantledDismantled Chicago, ILPosts: 120Member

    AoC was the only game I didnt mind grinding in. Combat was fast paced and somewhat interactive.

  • JimmacJimmac TXPosts: 1,667Member Uncommon

    EQ2 grinding was fun to me, but only when playing with other really cool people. 

    Grinding missions in Eve is about the worst grinding there is. I didn't know better at first and did it for much too long. 

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Lotro to me has a decent grind to it

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • LeucrottaLeucrotta DurhamPosts: 679Member

    None, grind is boring and pointless, shame P2P cant do without. actually F2P cant do without either in the hopes you buy anti grind pots etc,

  • blackthornnblackthornn Posts: 517Member Uncommon

    original EQ.  spending hours sitting in RM, SK Spires, Guk, Sol A and B, getting to know the people you were grouping with.  Not go-go-go-kill-loot-go-go-go.  I miss that in todays speedfreak mmos.  I miss taking a corner of a dungeon, pulling mobs to a group waiting to kill, having to actually use CC, offtanking, and more knowledge of your class than 1, 2, 3 rotations.  I miss EQ, too bad I have a life of sorts now and can't afford to spend 5 hrs a night 5 nights a week raiding anymore, was the best 6 years of gaming I've had, since then it's been a shadowplay really.

     Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed.  Current mmo's grouping: tinder.  swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Your comment about feeling behind catches my eye.   This conflict between seniority and barriers-to-entry is an interesting topic to me.  How can a game reward vets for their persistence without putting newbies at the base of depressingly high mountain at same time?

    ( I fear I haven't played enough different games through to their endgame to give you any informed suggestions )

    If you want an answer to your question here, than Call WoW. That have your answer.

    image

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    If you want an answer to your question here, than Call WoW. That have your answer.

    I've already spent some time analyzing WoW's mechanics of accelerating the early/mid game over time and how its systems have this built into them.   However, I'm looking for other successful examples to compare it to.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Originally posted by blackthornn

    original EQ.  spending hours sitting in RM, SK Spires, Guk, Sol A and B, getting to know the people you were grouping with.  Not go-go-go-kill-loot-go-go-go.  I miss that in todays speedfreak mmos.  I miss taking a corner of a dungeon, pulling mobs to a group waiting to kill, having to actually use CC, offtanking, and more knowledge of your class than 1, 2, 3 rotations.  I miss EQ, too bad I have a life of sorts now and can't afford to spend 5 hrs a night 5 nights a week raiding anymore, was the best 6 years of gaming I've had, since then it's been a shadowplay really.

     I didn't stay with EQ long, I jumped over to AC when it came out and never looked back.

     

    But one fond memory of EQ was the gnoll dungeon not far outside Quenos(I can't remember how that town is spelled there's a y in there somewhere) I think. Always full of people and the trains were fun (I fully admit on starting a few different trains when I was bored). Just seeing someone run by yelling "TRAIN" in the chat and then 30 creatures running along behind him was solid entertainment, until he zoned out and they came over and beat the crap out of you.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Once upon a time grind was the only way, now you have a choice over many levels of quests and so on. So when any element of grind appears (crafting, collectibles, special items etc) we complain about it.

  • anielianieli ReadingPosts: 114Member

    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Your comment about feeling behind catches my eye.   This conflict between seniority and barriers-to-entry is an interesting topic to me.  How can a game reward vets for their persistence without putting newbies at the base of depressingly high mountain at same time?

    ( I fear I haven't played enough different games through to their endgame to give you any informed suggestions )

     The problem only occurs when the player has the wrong mindset.

     

    People join into existing MMOs, and due to the WoW system of "The game starts at max level" people approach all MMOs that way now. So they try to power game to the max level which becomes boring and tedious.

     

    In order to enjoy an MMO you can't think "I have to be level X to have fun." Instead you have to think "I'll play to have fun and not worry about levels." Then you truly start exploring content and the world and everything is instantly far more enjoyable.

     

    The "I want what that guy has who's been playing for 5 years" mentality just leads to frustration and disappointment.

    I agree. For me the leveling experience and exploring the world is the fun part. As soon as I get to the 'endgame' I quit the game cause it is ridiculously boring. For me, MMO's endgame is the end where you beat the game. I do not want to do one thing one million times just for some items or some pointless PvP which I am better off playing FPS or RTS games which truly require some skill and are fun and dynamic.

    On topic, I can grind hours on end if I am with a friend and the quests are fun and I get new shinies every now and then. I loved WoW's leveling experience. The world was so beautiful and masterfully done. It felt light years ahead of other MMORPGs I had played. The quests were enjoyable to read and I loved the warcraft universe from the RTS games so it was amazing to see some of the locations.

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO LondonPosts: 1,333Member Uncommon

    All I can say is, without Darkfall I wouldn't be playing any MMO's. I had my fill of theme park MMO's and got pretty fed up of the on rails hand holding format of MMO's that kept coming out because of the success one with that format.

    In DF I live in a huge hand crafted seamless world with my clan in our own city with harbour. The player politics, territorial control, protection of my clans city, war on land & sea, raiding enemy villages and cites is what keeps me coming back for more, besides the continued developed of my character. Such a nice sight when you gear up with your clan and allies then mount up and all head out, what a sight as you pan and see this huge army you're moving with over the hills and valleys spread out around you in to the near near distance as you move through a seamless world to your target, no other MMO does it like DF can,but it may be a little too hardcore for a lot who cut their teeth on MMO's when the theme park era started.

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