Yeah, but I want to play on the couch without a keyboard on my lap in various gaming positions. Gamasutra.
That wasn't my point. According to you, the requirements are so vastly different that’s why they have such issues with porting it to the PC. Kind of funny, as the game is built on a PC platform, and then ported to the PS3.
Meanwhile Truth is, PS3 supports keyboard and mouse as well, as well as being a close hardware platform, won’t have to deal with the billions of hardware configurations.
So witch is it, the GUI and mouse are gimped because its going on the PS3 (that supports them) or The PC's performance is so bad, because the PS3 has lower hardware (but a closed single state hardware the usually represents a faster more powerful ability then a PC machine).
Not trying to argue here. This isn't about FFXIV being good or bad or anything in between. It is just to bring to light the difficulties involved with putting a MMORPG onto a Console and PC. The key difficulty being the RAM where you have 512mb total on a PS3 with only 256mb for Video and System Memory.
This is just a discussion not an argument. No need to troll or be negative here. There are plenty of other threads for that. I realize that this game isn't for you. I realize that nothing I say will sway your decision and I don't want to sway it in the first place.
So, you are saying that the info in the OP that somehow explains away all the issues, you know nothing about? But thats why everything is the way it is "and you guys just don't understand".?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I do like that the OP put out a thoughtful, well constructed post that explains the differences between the two platforms. It is important in understanding an important piece of why the game has turned out they way it has.
As the OP pointed out, Sony was not willing to put the resources into 2 development paths which is how FF XIV could have been so much more than it is. It is too bad, because the lore was compelling, and I was willing to give it a shot.
That said, as a consumer, the state of FF XIV does not appeal to me due largely to the limitations of the game. It was a choice Sony made...as a consumer, I'm voting with my checkbook to tell them that they should have probably spent the money to go down the 2 development paths.
Thing is, all PS3 games are developed on PC platform, and ported. Most of the things he mentions as some kind of limitation for consoles is just standard practice.
This was one big giant apology piece.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Yeah, but I want to play on the couch without a keyboard on my lap in various gaming positions. Gamasutra.
That wasn't my point. According to you, the requirements are so vastly different that’s why they have such issues with porting it to the PC. Kind of funny, as the game is built on a PC platform, and then ported to the PS3.
Meanwhile Truth is, PS3 supports keyboard and mouse as well, as well as being a close hardware platform, won’t have to deal with the billions of hardware configurations.
So witch is it, the GUI and mouse are gimped because its going on the PS3 (that supports them) or The PC's performance is so bad, because the PS3 has lower hardware (but a closed single state hardware the usually represents a faster more powerful ability then a PC machine).
Not trying to argue here. This isn't about FFXIV being good or bad or anything in between. It is just to bring to light the difficulties involved with putting a MMORPG onto a Console and PC. The key difficulty being the RAM where you have 512mb total on a PS3 with only 256mb for Video and System Memory.
This is just a discussion not an argument. No need to troll or be negative here. There are plenty of other threads for that. I realize that this game isn't for you. I realize that nothing I say will sway your decision and I don't want to sway it in the first place.
So, you are saying that the info in the OP that somehow explains away all the issues, you know nothing about? But thats why everything is the way it is "and you guys just don't understand".?
Looks like you're still trying to drag out an argument from some poor innocent poster. Not sure you need to be hanging out in the forum of a game that you hate. Jumping neutral and positive contributers might be fun for you but don't be so dim.
Maybe some haters can take the time to read and understand the why of thins before talking trash about a company thats bringing a great game for all pvers out there. On both PC and ps3.
dude did you even need to post this? Its like troll.. well haters? Dislke does not = hate.. play nice.. talk to others like you want to be talked to.. .. if you have nothing nice to say.. say nothing at all. A fool that says nothing seems wise.. learn..
I definitely disagree with memory being a main issue on consoles, it is potentially an issue, but we aren't running Windows on a PS3, with tons of background processes vying for resource time. Games can easily be optimized when you don't have to create for hundreds of different hardware variations. Yes, there are differences, but they aren't so drastic that the two iterations of the same game have to be strikingly different mechanically that they can't possibly work.
I am looking forward to more console MMO's as well. It will be interesting to compare DCUO to FFXIV. DCUO has seperate PS3 and PC versions that play on seperate servers. I will be interested to see what that means for the lifetime of the game and what the game is like. I have a feeling both versions will play out very much like an instanced console game though rather than a large open world like XIV.
There was news of a console only NCSoft MMO I believe as well. I would love to see a game like Dragon Quest go for a console only MMO down the road too.
The DCUO devs have stated that Gotham and Metropolis are both totally non-instanced, and each is many square miles, of active bustling city life. Havent seen evidence yet, but that IS the claim. DCUO will be full open world, and big at that.
Yeah, but I want to play on the couch without a keyboard on my lap in various gaming positions. Gamasutra.
That wasn't my point. According to you, the requirements are so vastly different that’s why they have such issues with porting it to the PC. Kind of funny, as the game is built on a PC platform, and then ported to the PS3.
Meanwhile Truth is, PS3 supports keyboard and mouse as well, as well as being a close hardware platform, won’t have to deal with the billions of hardware configurations.
So witch is it, the GUI and mouse are gimped because its going on the PS3 (that supports them) or The PC's performance is so bad, because the PS3 has lower hardware (but a closed single state hardware the usually represents a faster more powerful ability then a PC machine).
Not trying to argue here. This isn't about FFXIV being good or bad or anything in between. It is just to bring to light the difficulties involved with putting a MMORPG onto a Console and PC. The key difficulty being the RAM where you have 512mb total on a PS3 with only 256mb for Video and System Memory.
This is just a discussion not an argument. No need to troll or be negative here. There are plenty of other threads for that. I realize that this game isn't for you. I realize that nothing I say will sway your decision and I don't want to sway it in the first place.
So, you are saying that the info in the OP that somehow explains away all the issues, you know nothing about? But thats why everything is the way it is "and you guys just don't understand".?
Looks like you're still trying to drag out an argument from some poor innocent poster. Not sure you need to be hanging out in the forum of a game that you hate. Jumping neutral and positive contributers might be fun for you but don't be so dim.
He’s not neutral or positive. There are some real criticisms about the performance and GUI of this title, this post, as inaccurate as it is, was an attempt to clam its an issue between console and PC, and its not. He’s doing a great disservice to any fan of this game attempting to sweep it under the rug.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
While informative, I would rather not use a controller for any game, if I did perfer to do so I would save a ton of money buying a console...or steal my kids. I do like how consoles are now able to impliment keyboards and mouse setups and wonder how the reverse can be so poor in FFXIV.
You wrote a great post about the differences and difficulties in game design and making an MMO for two platforms. But it can't be taken as an excuse for giving PC-gamers a UI that is not of this century.
I would have bought this game straight away if it had a PC-friendly UI, now I probably will not buy it at all, and I'm sure they are losing a lot of sales due to this. A poor UI makes the best of games mediocre.
If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
That game, by necessity has to play equally well (or equally poorly) on the PC and PS3. IT's not hard to make a ui that is easy to use on PCs. Heck, horrible mmo's get at least the UI right. It's not that SE literally can't make a UI, it's just that they choose not to in order to make the PS3 version of the game viable.
Yes it sucks, but its a compromise. It's especially more glaring when you consider that 60-70% of its playerbase will likely be japanese console gamers. When you try to make a game work for two differnt systems, you HAVE TO make these type of compromises. Some people arn't willing ot live with this explanation, and it's their right. Just don't blame the developers motivations or intentions because this type of design is by necessity.
Maybe some haters can take the time to read and understand the why of thins before talking trash about a company thats bringing a great game for all pvers out there. On both PC and ps3.
dude did you even need to post this? Its like troll.. well haters? Dislke does not = hate.. play nice.. talk to others like you want to be talked to.. .. if you have nothing nice to say.. say nothing at all. A fool that says nothing seems wise.. learn..
I guess you havent read half of the posts on ffxiv forums , all filled with angry trolls that feel like SE owns them somethin.If you arent a troll and you dislike , not hate the game then why are you quoting me ?. Is not directed to you that statment.I dont need you to educate me , but thanks for trying.Im old enough to take care of myself .
I think the OP put a very good info,if they still cant understand it and dislike or hate the game then just move on, no point hanging around trolling ( yes when you hang around a forum of somethin you dont like trying to find the tiniest of problems to make a 100 line post, on how disapointed you are, your clearly a troll)and leave it for the people who actually like to discuss the game based on facts and not stupidity like people who still refer of surplus as a mayor factor on the game.I will never argue facts and never stick opinions down people throat.That is indeed a fools errand.OP put down facts, he never said how good or bad does it make the game, that is your decision and yours only.
PS: on a side note on topic, FFXI always had this kind of policy , were PC and Console players would HAVE to play the same , with none having advantages( by advantages it means better UI, addons, etc), they made it as equal as posible so none of the sides felt like they were missing out.Im not saying is good or bad , but is how it will be once again on ffxiv.They did an awfull
Hate it or love it , thats your choice , the door is always right at the corner of the next mmo.
Originally posted by Hrayr2148 If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
And why do You assume that easier to play with PC(mouse and keyboard) means harder to play with gamepad? After all it's all about personal preferences. BOTH PC and PS3 users have access to both gamepad and keyboard and mouse. Make two viable UIs(as default k+m for PC and pad for PS3) and let players choose. Wanna sit on couch with controller - fine. Wanna play with k + m on desk, here You go. But SE went lazy way and said play or buzz off. As for examples - Dragon Age is first title that springs to my mind that was also console game with perfect PC UI.
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
Originally posted by Hrayr2148 If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
And why do You assume that easier to play with PC(mouse and keyboard) means harder to play with gamepad? After all it's all about personal preferences. BOTH PC and PS3 users have access to both gamepad and keyboard and mouse. Make two viable UIs(as default k+m for PC and pad for PS3) and let players choose. Wanna sit on couch with controller - fine. Wanna play with k + m on desk, here You go. But SE went lazy way and said play or buzz off. As for examples - Dragon Age is first title that springs to my mind that was also console game with perfect PC UI.
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
Not sure , but it definetly had the same crapy UI, so go figure, maybe people doesnt care so much bout this after all.I for one dont, im actually having a lot of fun now that i got my wyfe a beta key and playing together, its really 150% more fun than playing solo, i was really bored on beta, tbh.Just find it pointless to exp when is gonna be deleted.Cant wait for release.8 more days.
If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
And why do You assume that easier to play with PC(mouse and keyboard) means harder to play with gamepad? After all it's all about personal preferences. BOTH PC and PS3 users have access to both gamepad and keyboard and mouse. Make two viable UIs(as default k+m for PC and pad for PS3) and let players choose. Wanna sit on couch with controller - fine. Wanna play with k + m on desk, here You go. But SE went lazy way and said play or buzz off. As for examples - Dragon Age is first title that springs to my mind that was also console game with perfect PC UI.
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations.
I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride.
It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If an NA player played FFXI using a controller, then they already knew how FFXIV was going to turn out. That's why FFXI players are not surprised, shocked or that much disapointed. IT's par for the course for SE.
If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
And why do You assume that easier to play with PC(mouse and keyboard) means harder to play with gamepad? After all it's all about personal preferences. BOTH PC and PS3 users have access to both gamepad and keyboard and mouse. Make two viable UIs(as default k+m for PC and pad for PS3) and let players choose. Wanna sit on couch with controller - fine. Wanna play with k + m on desk, here You go. But SE went lazy way and said play or buzz off. As for examples - Dragon Age is first title that springs to my mind that was also console game with perfect PC UI.
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations.
I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride.
It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If an NA player played FFXI using a controller, then they already knew how FFXIV was going to turn out. That's why FFXI players are not surprised, shocked or that much disapointed. IT's par for the course for SE.
Great post. I agree with this 100% and have been playing SE's games since I was 5 or 6 with FF1. It can be bad and good the way they develop without seeming to communicate much. I was very pleased with everything we got with FFXI while the general forum consensus and developer direction with WoW was the complete opposite of what I wanted. For some WoW's progression was the greatest thing ever and it couldn't have been more opposite of what I saw as a good direction.
I think any game can be good for some and bad for some. In general though I wanted to bring to light the difficulty with a large open streaming map, an MMORPG with tons of itemization, and the restricted ram and other aspects of developing on console and PC.
Some people here seem to think I am an apologist or trying to stir something up but it couldn't be farther from the truth. It is kind of pathetic actually. I could care less if they don't like the game and have 0 interest in changing their minds. Believe me when I say I don't want to play a game with these guys. I am a programmer that has a BS in game design and development, and I have done code for console and PC at the same time and the limitations are so great that it completely turns off most amateur game programmers. The scope of FFXIV on PC and Console is a very difficult and limited endeavor. That is exactly why the PS3 version is delayed for 6 months. The reason cited by the devs was mainly ram requirements and fitting what they already have in memory when it is as streamlined and optimized as it is.
Thanks for all the great feedback and solid discussion in this thread. I am really proud of this site tonight!-
Originally posted by Hrayr2148 No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
Well this isn't the answer for my question though. I haven't asked about what was majority of used controllers(as considering FF XI UI design answer was obvious). I was asking about subscription numbers on PC vs PS 2, as I think I saw a chart somewhere here @forums.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
Again, and why so? Why they'd loose half of their desired demographic if they had made PC friendly UI and a short tutorial? I really have no idea where are You taking those claims from. Especially considering You also say that on japanese console market they have ZERO competition...
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations. I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride. It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If what You write here is true it's 100% SE fault for releasing this game outside Japan. And it's not people outside Japan that are mistaken(i.e. it's not their fault), they are just being mislead by SE. As simply as that. If a company releases product in my country I expect it to be functional for me, not some guy in Japan. Thus game gets much deserved negative reviews so far and there are so many "haters", as those are disappointed customers that discovered truth about product offered to also THEM(that is NA/EU people)
No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
Well this isn't the answer for my question though. I haven't asked about what was majority of used controllers(as considering FF XI UI design answer was obvious). I was asking about subscription numbers on PC vs PS 2, as I think I saw a chart somewhere here @forums.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
Again, and why so? Why they'd loose half of their desired demographic if they had made PC friendly UI and a short tutorial? I really have no idea where are You taking those claims from. Especially considering You also say that on japanese console market they have ZERO competition...
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations.
I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride.
It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If what You write here is true it's 100% SE fault for releasing this game outside Japan. And it's not people outside Japan that are mistaken(i.e. it's not their fault), they are just being mislead by SE. As simply as that. If a company releases product in my country I expect it to be functional for me, not some guy in Japan. Thus game gets much deserved negative reviews so far and there are so many "haters", as those are disappointed customers that discovered truth about product offered to also THEM(that is NA/EU people)
It wouldn't make ANY sense to not release the game in NA and EU. Yes, the game is designed for the console, but they shouldn't release it NA/EU because they don't need the extra money?
Let's say 75% of the game's subscribers are japanese players, so SE isn't going to release the game in NA or EU because 25% additional profit isn't worth it? The only time it wouldn't be worht releasing the game here or EU is if the cost of the localizations (translations) is more than the potential profit.
If you have 100k subscribers in NA and 100k subscribers in EU, that more than makes it worthwhile to release in NA and EU. Just because the UI isn't a carbon copy of WoW or any other western mmo, then it doesn't deserve to be released here? Give me a break.
Btw, there are already 160k+ pre orders for the game in North America Alone. That's pretty good for a game that was even designed for the NA audience.
Edit: Should Japanese players complain that Blizzard is arrogant and refuses to adapt the game to the console, so that japanese players can enjoy WoW using a controller?
Originally posted by Hrayr2148 It wouldn't make ANY sense to not release the game in NA and EU. Yes, the game is designed for the console, but they shouldn't release it NA/EU because they don't need the extra money?
Let's say 75% of the game's subscribers are japanese players, so SE isn't going to release the game in NA or EU because 25% additional profit isn't worth it? The only time it wouldn't be worht releasing the game here or EU is if the cost of the localizations (translations) is more than the potential profit.
If you have 100k subscribers in NA and 100k subscribers in EU, that more than makes it worthwhile to release in NA and EU. Just because the UI isn't a carbon copy of WoW or any other western mmo, then it doesn't deserve to be released here? Give me a break. Btw, there are already 160k+ pre orders for the game in North America Alone. That's pretty good for a game that was even designed for the NA audience.
Apart for again not answering my question about Your claims, You just made Your previous point about cultural differences and people misunderstanding invalid. SE wan't more profit from NA/EU. People from NA/EU have their expectation, no matter how different from Japanese. It's SE job to deliver to all playerbase or suffer the bad reviews and company image. As simple as that.
Originally posted by Hrayr2148 No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
Well this isn't the answer for my question though. I haven't asked about what was majority of used controllers(as considering FF XI UI design answer was obvious). I was asking about subscription numbers on PC vs PS 2, as I think I saw a chart somewhere here @forums.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
Again, and why so? Why they'd loose half of their desired demographic if they had made PC friendly UI and a short tutorial? I really have no idea where are You taking those claims from. Especially considering You also say that on japanese console market they have ZERO competition...
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations. I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride. It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If what You write here is true it's 100% SE fault for releasing this game outside Japan. And it's not people outside Japan that are mistaken(i.e. it's not their fault), they are just being mislead by SE. As simply as that. If a company releases product in my country I expect it to be functional for me, not some guy in Japan. Thus game gets much deserved negative reviews so far and there are so many "haters", as those are disappointed customers that discovered truth about product offered to also THEM(that is NA/EU people)
Name one game that in this era that have ,(not pre wow, i played wow ,enjoyed it , in months i was done with content mostly bored out my mind , moved on to a more productive mmo, if you could call it that) marketed to a world wide audience and got good aceptance world wide.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ None, they arent even marketing outside of japan,at least not as much as other mmos up to date. It is funtional for everyone , but not everyone will like it, theres a diference.Is their choice to focus on one side of the table, you can like it or not, that choice is entirely up to you.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hrayr is right tought, you just have to see the interviews when the devs laugh when they get asked what they think about the complains about NA peeps about UI and such. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People need to stop runing for Maximun Defender of Justice on the MMO world, and instead try the game, like it ? purchase. Dont like it ? theres tons coming up soon. Try it by yourself , there is still time, or get a friend code from those with CE ordered.The asumptions the game have to be played with controler are wrong, controler at higer levels dont work like they should , unless you macro everythin.Forums never judge the games right ,everyone should try it by themselfs,and make a choice.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw im not runing for head of FF fanboy club,while im a fan i just find it amusing i dont see half the problems people claim there is on the game while im playing it right now.Or at least not as bad as they make it out to be. personally i hate the UI, but once the lag is gone , it should be down to aceptable levels. PS; not talking to you in particular on the second part of my post, so dont get offended , just talking my mind out while smoking on my laptop.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PS; idk why the forum make my posts look like a wall of text lol.so marked paragraphs with lines.
PCs use x86/x64 PS3 uses cell. Need differenct instructions sent to each one; makes a little work for porting.
Good point. I think SE has spent a long time developing their crystal tools to make an API that optimizes using both of these, but it shouldn't be ignored either. They have definitely had their troubles though in PC and Console games leading up to XIV especially noticeable in Last Remnant.
Comments
So, you are saying that the info in the OP that somehow explains away all the issues, you know nothing about? But thats why everything is the way it is "and you guys just don't understand".?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I do like that the OP put out a thoughtful, well constructed post that explains the differences between the two platforms. It is important in understanding an important piece of why the game has turned out they way it has.
As the OP pointed out, Sony was not willing to put the resources into 2 development paths which is how FF XIV could have been so much more than it is. It is too bad, because the lore was compelling, and I was willing to give it a shot.
That said, as a consumer, the state of FF XIV does not appeal to me due largely to the limitations of the game. It was a choice Sony made...as a consumer, I'm voting with my checkbook to tell them that they should have probably spent the money to go down the 2 development paths.
Thing is, all PS3 games are developed on PC platform, and ported. Most of the things he mentions as some kind of limitation for consoles is just standard practice.
This was one big giant apology piece.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Looks like you're still trying to drag out an argument from some poor innocent poster. Not sure you need to be hanging out in the forum of a game that you hate. Jumping neutral and positive contributers might be fun for you but don't be so dim.
dude did you even need to post this? Its like troll.. well haters? Dislke does not = hate.. play nice.. talk to others like you want to be talked to.. .. if you have nothing nice to say.. say nothing at all. A fool that says nothing seems wise.. learn..
I definitely disagree with memory being a main issue on consoles, it is potentially an issue, but we aren't running Windows on a PS3, with tons of background processes vying for resource time. Games can easily be optimized when you don't have to create for hundreds of different hardware variations. Yes, there are differences, but they aren't so drastic that the two iterations of the same game have to be strikingly different mechanically that they can't possibly work.
The DCUO devs have stated that Gotham and Metropolis are both totally non-instanced, and each is many square miles, of active bustling city life. Havent seen evidence yet, but that IS the claim. DCUO will be full open world, and big at that.
He’s not neutral or positive. There are some real criticisms about the performance and GUI of this title, this post, as inaccurate as it is, was an attempt to clam its an issue between console and PC, and its not. He’s doing a great disservice to any fan of this game attempting to sweep it under the rug.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
While informative, I would rather not use a controller for any game, if I did perfer to do so I would save a ton of money buying a console...or steal my kids. I do like how consoles are now able to impliment keyboards and mouse setups and wonder how the reverse can be so poor in FFXIV.
If the PC UI is friendlier than the PS3 version, then why play it on the PS3? IF you can use skills, access the menu, craft, gather, fish, explore far easier on the PC, then you essentially kill your PS3 market.
That game, by necessity has to play equally well (or equally poorly) on the PC and PS3. IT's not hard to make a ui that is easy to use on PCs. Heck, horrible mmo's get at least the UI right. It's not that SE literally can't make a UI, it's just that they choose not to in order to make the PS3 version of the game viable.
Yes it sucks, but its a compromise. It's especially more glaring when you consider that 60-70% of its playerbase will likely be japanese console gamers. When you try to make a game work for two differnt systems, you HAVE TO make these type of compromises. Some people arn't willing ot live with this explanation, and it's their right. Just don't blame the developers motivations or intentions because this type of design is by necessity.
I guess you havent read half of the posts on ffxiv forums , all filled with angry trolls that feel like SE owns them somethin.If you arent a troll and you dislike , not hate the game then why are you quoting me ?. Is not directed to you that statment.I dont need you to educate me , but thanks for trying.Im old enough to take care of myself .
I think the OP put a very good info,if they still cant understand it and dislike or hate the game then just move on, no point hanging around trolling ( yes when you hang around a forum of somethin you dont like trying to find the tiniest of problems to make a 100 line post, on how disapointed you are, your clearly a troll)and leave it for the people who actually like to discuss the game based on facts and not stupidity like people who still refer of surplus as a mayor factor on the game.I will never argue facts and never stick opinions down people throat.That is indeed a fools errand.OP put down facts, he never said how good or bad does it make the game, that is your decision and yours only.
PS: on a side note on topic, FFXI always had this kind of policy , were PC and Console players would HAVE to play the same , with none having advantages( by advantages it means better UI, addons, etc), they made it as equal as posible so none of the sides felt like they were missing out.Im not saying is good or bad , but is how it will be once again on ffxiv.They did an awfull
Hate it or love it , thats your choice , the door is always right at the corner of the next mmo.
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
Ah one more thing(I might be wrong here), didn't FF XI have much more PC subscribers than console?
Not sure , but it definetly had the same crapy UI, so go figure, maybe people doesnt care so much bout this after all.I for one dont, im actually having a lot of fun now that i got my wyfe a beta key and playing together, its really 150% more fun than playing solo, i was really bored on beta, tbh.Just find it pointless to exp when is gonna be deleted.Cant wait for release.8 more days.No. Majority of FFXI players were japanese console players, or PC controller players. The ui device of choice was the controller regardless of the system.
This game is designed for the japanese mmo console market, which has ZERO competition. SE is the only company thatis making an mmo of note. People in japan do no play mmos and they do not play using the PC. If SE made this game more PC friendly and NA/EU players in mind, they would lose more than half of their desired demographic.
People really need to stop thinking SE/FFXIV is anything like the mmos released in the last 3-4 years (Aion, Warhammer, Aoc, Lotro, etc etc). If people went into FFXIV thinking it was going to be like those games was sorely mistaken. The mistake was the players, not SE. Though, SE is horrible at public relations.
I think it's more of a cultural difference that NA players fail to grasp rather than anything else. To give you an analogy, it's like senior citizens complaining that the Scions are too small and they need to make them bigger. Well, senior citizens are not the demographic that scion is most after. They are after the young, single, demographic who wants ot customize their ride.
It wouldn't make sense for Scion to change their product to cater to the senior citizens when their whole design philosophy was premised around the younger crowd. Same thing in this situation... it's NA PC gamers using mouse/keyboard vs. Japanese console gamers.
If an NA player played FFXI using a controller, then they already knew how FFXIV was going to turn out. That's why FFXI players are not surprised, shocked or that much disapointed. IT's par for the course for SE.
Great post. I agree with this 100% and have been playing SE's games since I was 5 or 6 with FF1. It can be bad and good the way they develop without seeming to communicate much. I was very pleased with everything we got with FFXI while the general forum consensus and developer direction with WoW was the complete opposite of what I wanted. For some WoW's progression was the greatest thing ever and it couldn't have been more opposite of what I saw as a good direction.
I think any game can be good for some and bad for some. In general though I wanted to bring to light the difficulty with a large open streaming map, an MMORPG with tons of itemization, and the restricted ram and other aspects of developing on console and PC.
Some people here seem to think I am an apologist or trying to stir something up but it couldn't be farther from the truth. It is kind of pathetic actually. I could care less if they don't like the game and have 0 interest in changing their minds. Believe me when I say I don't want to play a game with these guys. I am a programmer that has a BS in game design and development, and I have done code for console and PC at the same time and the limitations are so great that it completely turns off most amateur game programmers. The scope of FFXIV on PC and Console is a very difficult and limited endeavor. That is exactly why the PS3 version is delayed for 6 months. The reason cited by the devs was mainly ram requirements and fitting what they already have in memory when it is as streamlined and optimized as it is.
Thanks for all the great feedback and solid discussion in this thread. I am really proud of this site tonight!-
It wouldn't make ANY sense to not release the game in NA and EU. Yes, the game is designed for the console, but they shouldn't release it NA/EU because they don't need the extra money?
Let's say 75% of the game's subscribers are japanese players, so SE isn't going to release the game in NA or EU because 25% additional profit isn't worth it? The only time it wouldn't be worht releasing the game here or EU is if the cost of the localizations (translations) is more than the potential profit.
If you have 100k subscribers in NA and 100k subscribers in EU, that more than makes it worthwhile to release in NA and EU. Just because the UI isn't a carbon copy of WoW or any other western mmo, then it doesn't deserve to be released here? Give me a break.
Btw, there are already 160k+ pre orders for the game in North America Alone. That's pretty good for a game that was even designed for the NA audience.
Edit: Should Japanese players complain that Blizzard is arrogant and refuses to adapt the game to the console, so that japanese players can enjoy WoW using a controller?
Name one game that in this era that have ,(not pre wow, i played wow ,enjoyed it , in months i was done with content mostly bored out my mind , moved on to a more productive mmo, if you could call it that) marketed to a world wide audience and got good aceptance world wide.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------None, they arent even marketing outside of japan,at least not as much as other mmos up to date. It is funtional for everyone , but not everyone will like it, theres a diference.Is their choice to focus on one side of the table, you can like it or not, that choice is entirely up to you.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hrayr is right tought, you just have to see the interviews when the devs laugh when they get asked what they think about the complains about NA peeps about UI and such.
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People need to stop runing for Maximun Defender of Justice on the MMO world, and instead try the game, like it ? purchase. Dont like it ? theres tons coming up soon.
Try it by yourself , there is still time, or get a friend code from those with CE ordered.The asumptions the game have to be played with controler are wrong, controler at higer levels dont work like they should , unless you macro everythin.Forums never judge the games right ,everyone should try it by themselfs,and make a choice.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Btw im not runing for head of FF fanboy club,while im a fan i just find it amusing i dont see half the problems people claim there is on the game while im playing it right now.Or at least not as bad as they make it out to be. personally i hate the UI, but once the lag is gone , it should be down to aceptable levels.
PS; not talking to you in particular on the second part of my post, so dont get offended , just talking my mind out while smoking on my laptop.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PS; idk why the forum make my posts look like a wall of text lol.so marked paragraphs with lines.
I've been trying to justify design decisions to myself because of the knowledge that the PC is really an afterthought for this game.
What doesn't jive with me is the huge hardware requirements for the PC when the PS3s video chip is equivalent to a geforce 7800.
I think if SE opened up the PC's UI to modification a solution would be found in days.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
You forgot architecture.
PCs use x86/x64 PS3 uses cell. Need differenct instructions sent to each one; makes a little work for porting.
Good point. I think SE has spent a long time developing their crystal tools to make an API that optimizes using both of these, but it shouldn't be ignored either. They have definitely had their troubles though in PC and Console games leading up to XIV especially noticeable in Last Remnant.