that's no big surprise. At least to me. While, as someone else pointed out, LoTR races have fought each other in the past, this is not exactly the kind of epic Good Vs Evil feeling the books (and movies) are all about. The only race that could go with Sauron, of those playable, are the humans. So you would have Elves-Dwarves-Humans-Halfling Vs Humans.....
Not VERY exciting. Without Orks, Uruk-hai, goblins, ogres, trolls and undeads as playabable character, there isn't much chance of that epic PvP.
So in the end, good it is gone.
Frankly, tough, of the two turbine's future game, D&D online is much more appealing to me. So i suppose their choice of delaying MEO to 2006 was the right one, for me at least, so now they can make the game actually worthwhile. (hopefully).
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Welcome to the future of MMOs: carnival rides. long lines to get on the rides (server queues anyone?), overpriced tickets ($15/month for what?), crappy rewards (wow i have my l33t sword of destruction like everyone else now!), and totally safe (no PvP).
the carnival wasn't satisfying as a kid, and MMOs aren't as an adult.
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
Originally posted by pinkdaisy The title says it perfectly. Welcome to the future of MMOs: carnival rides. long lines to get on the rides (server queues anyone?), overpriced tickets ($15/month for what?), crappy rewards (wow i have my l33t sword of destruction like everyone else now!), and totally safe (no PvP). the carnival wasn't satisfying as a kid, and MMOs aren't as an adult. Turbine for teh win.
really? as a kid i really loved going to the carnival/theme park. and i didn't mind the queues as long as i could get fries and coke
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
They are overwhelmed by Tolkien's world. The amount of content to have two sides humbled and belittled their small staff. What this means is what will be there will be good. Though examples such as Everquest II negate the statement somewhat. Even if this announcement is a half-hearted way to state: It's too much and we can't do it; it is in our best interest to judge the product when it is released and when we get to experience the gameplay capriciously for ourselves. No one can blame them, to bring to life a fantasy world of that magnitude is a hefty task.
The Lord of the Rings isn't about any kind of conflict - its about those lovely Nazgul fellows who pop over to their friends the elves for a nice cup of tea. They invite the hobbits, orcs and humans round and they all have a jolly good laugh.
No PvP??? All mmorpgs should be PvP and PvE. Imagine the epic battles there could have been plus politics/land control/sieges all wrapped in the Tolkien myth. None of that will happen. We'll get a cookie-cutter EQ clone set at a static time during one of the novels (that time may change every 6 months if we're really lucky).
Rubbish- i won't be playing this. What a disappointment.
Originally posted by Alcanan I am a person that does not enjoy PVP battles. I play these games to meet people and enjoy the game. With that out of the way I'm not saying PVP doesn't have it's place in these types of games. But like was said already if you chose to kill another character for no reason there should be real consequences. If the battle is agreed upon sure to the death and let it be but if a player just goes around killing people for fun whats the point? If you are going to build a gamming community have it act that way as a community. My 2 cents
If Im not mistaken, what ur talking is OPEN PvP, not many games have it (I think). Open PvP isnt very logical in a game if there isnt good and evil, where u could attack players of the other side any time u see them. Since this game isnt going to have good/evil ur post doenst make much sense, I guess
In MEO there should be PvP but restricted, like clan battles, castle sieges.... But without PvP there can also be great battles. Imagine receiving in ur news book that there was a great orc invasion starting to come out from mordor and it is going to strike Minas Tirith in 5 days! The players would join to fight the huge group od orcs.... But this scenario could only happen if the orc AI was at least high, cuz they should march down the roads till they hit minas tirith and then get evrybody on their posts....
Well, what I mean is that such huge battle dont necessarily mean there needs to be PvP, but PvP should be implemented to this game
**Sigh** ..............Well another MMORPG I will not be playing! It is sad that these companies forget about us PvP'ers. It seems stupid for MEO not to have PvP, Same thing with Star Trek Online, All these races that hate each other and can not fight each other! I guess Orcs should hold halflings hands and sing songs by the fire, and Romulans and Klingons she go tra-la-la and stick flowers in there hair! Guess I will have to hope for D&L.
Cheers,
Bilas
'She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?"
Originally posted by Bilas **Sigh** ..............Well another MMORPG I will not be playing! It is sad that these companies forget about us PvP'ers. It seems stupid for MEO not to have PvP, Same thing with Star Trek Online, All these races that hate each other and can not fight each other! I guess Orcs should hold halflings hands and sing songs by the fire, and Romulans and Klingons she go tra-la-la and stick flowers in there hair! Guess I will have to hope for D&L.
Originally posted by Bilas **Sigh** ..............Well another MMORPG I will not be playing! It is sad that these companies forget about us PvP'ers. It seems stupid for MEO not to have PvP, Same thing with Star Trek Online, All these races that hate each other and can not fight each other! I guess Orcs should hold halflings hands and sing songs by the fire, and Romulans and Klingons she go tra-la-la and stick flowers in there hair! Guess I will have to hope for D&L.
Cheers,
Bilas
Orcs are not playable race...never were
Well gosh!! Pick any race in the game that hates the other and use that! Or do all the playable races love each other?
'She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?"
Did you ever stop to think about why they aren't doing PvP? First off, with DDO, there's PERMADEATH. Most people don't wanna lose their character(s) to a griefer with nothing better to do than kill other people just to piss them off. With MEO, the biggest issue's probably the fact that they'd have to Balance each class for PvE THEN again for PvP, which is first off nearly impossible. Why? Because no matter what they do, people will always bitch that one class is stronger than another. This will save them that hassle. Also, it's a lot of extra work to do that balancing, so it'll save them a lot of time as well. They may add in PvP later on, but for release, it's a lot more intelligent to go the no PvP route.
Originally posted by brian72282 Did you ever stop to think about why they aren't doing PvP? First off, with DDO, there's PERMADEATH. Most people don't wanna lose their character(s) to a griefer with nothing better to do than kill other people just to piss them off. With MEO, the biggest issue's probably the fact that they'd have to Balance each class for PvE THEN again for PvP, which is first off nearly impossible. Why? Because no matter what they do, people will always bitch that one class is stronger than another. This will save them that hassle. Also, it's a lot of extra work to do that balancing, so it'll save them a lot of time as well. They may add in PvP later on, but for release, it's a lot more intelligent to go the no PvP route.
So what your saying is Turbine went the easy way out and Middle Earth Online goes pussy?
Originally posted by brian72282 Did you ever stop to think about why they aren't doing PvP? First off, with DDO, there's PERMADEATH. Most people don't wanna lose their character(s) to a griefer with nothing better to do than kill other people just to piss them off. With MEO, the biggest issue's probably the fact that they'd have to Balance each class for PvE THEN again for PvP, which is first off nearly impossible. Why? Because no matter what they do, people will always bitch that one class is stronger than another. This will save them that hassle. Also, it's a lot of extra work to do that balancing, so it'll save them a lot of time as well. They may add in PvP later on, but for release, it's a lot more intelligent to go the no PvP route.
You have the worst argument.
Perma death in DDO? Where do you see this. Taken straight from the official DDO FAQ: "What happens when my character dies? Character death will be something to be avoided there will definitely be a penalty to pay when your character dies. However, your characters cannot be permanently killed in Dungeons & Dragons Online."
You are right about one thing though, it is hard to balance PvE and PvP. Turbine just doesn't want to deal with it. They are ripping off the players. Anyone who comes up with the excuse, "it doesn't fit the story," ssshhh. These aren't direct translations of the LoTR or DnD. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. A straight translation is near impossible and it would probably be boring for everyone except for the most hardcore fans. If a developer or any fanboy wants to fall back on that excuse, it's weak to selectively choose when to follow the original concept when something is too difficult.
Going no PvP is extremely unintelligent. PvP creates a lot of entertainment and drama. It creates more community and keeps the high end and hardcore players in the game. No PvP will hurt DDO and MEO in the long run when people get bored witih just questing and trading with each other. How are you supposed to settle who is the superior player, just by arguing?! Pffft.
you have to look at it by a coders view...balancing pvp is extremely hard, and it becomes even more difficult as new expansions/updates add new stuff to the game constantly
Not everyone plays MMO's to "be superior". In all the great single player RPG's the opponents were computer controlled mobs too. One of the best RPG's i've played was Secret of Mana for the SNES which allowed 3 players to team up and play through the storyline. You don't need to kill each other to have multiplayer fun.
I play MMO's solely for coop adventuring and community. PvP usually comes down to levels and equipment anyway.
I have Counterstrike/WC3/Battlefield1942 to satisfy PvP.
As for DDO, they did say that there would be no PvP in at launch... but they did not 100% rule out adding dueling or such later on.
Originally posted by Blood_Hawk I think that these developers have a lazy attitude.
I agree about that... in AC1, Turbine catered COMPLETELY to the "white" (non-PVP) servers and this, in the end, screwed over Darktide (PVP server). They pretty much just didn't feel like investing any extra time into satisfying the small group of people on the PVP server (probably less than 10% of players played there) and just let things all go to hell for Darktide. In the 3 years or so after AC1 came out, DT was one of the most fun things ever, then Turbine slowly let it decay and now it is terrible. For example: of all the quest weapons and other weapons in the game, only two or so were actually good for PVP fighting. They spent most of their time making all the items "attractive" and they ended up being useless. Then AC2 came out... worst PVP ever. Now they just gave up. I now have absolutely no respect for them.
Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either..
Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems.
You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.
Originally posted by Jackdog Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either.. Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems. You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.
Originally posted by Jackdog Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either.. Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems. You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.
PC's casting magic makes absolutely no sense in a Tolkein world. Spellcasting was the domain of the Vayar and Mayar. Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Hobbits, and the like never used magic nor did they have any such ability. Similarly there wouldn't be any viable precedent for a pet class in that world.
I really don't know what MEO has planned, but it's not really sensible to consider a lack of spellcasting or pet classes in a Tolkein world to be the fault of the development team.
I really don't know what MEO has planned, but it's not really sensible to consider a lack of spellcasting or pet classes in a Tolkein world to be the fault of the development team.
Never said it was the fault of the dev team now did I? Just listing reasons why the game will never see my money.
Not wanting to sound like I am in the semi finals of the nerd contest however if you bother reading some of the books you would find that Elves did have some magic ( that was even in the movies) and so did Dwarfs in the form of Runecasting whaich was taught to them by the Elves. Among men there was the 'witch king' who may or may not have dabbled in magic, and mentions of men practicing necromancy. Hobbits had no magical powers to be sure although it is rumored they could throw fireballs friom their behinds if they ate too many beans and sat too close to the fire.
Oh well I have exceeded my nerd quota for the evening, do a google search if you want to know more. But yes there was magic in middle earth, subtle but it was there.
Comments
that's no big surprise. At least to me. While, as someone else pointed out, LoTR races have fought each other in the past, this is not exactly the kind of epic Good Vs Evil feeling the books (and movies) are all about. The only race that could go with Sauron, of those playable, are the humans. So you would have Elves-Dwarves-Humans-Halfling Vs Humans.....
Not VERY exciting. Without Orks, Uruk-hai, goblins, ogres, trolls and undeads as playabable character, there isn't much chance of that epic PvP.
So in the end, good it is gone.
Frankly, tough, of the two turbine's future game, D&D online is much more appealing to me. So i suppose their choice of delaying MEO to 2006 was the right one, for me at least, so now they can make the game actually worthwhile. (hopefully).
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The title says it perfectly.
Welcome to the future of MMOs: carnival rides. long lines to get on the rides (server queues anyone?), overpriced tickets ($15/month for what?), crappy rewards (wow i have my l33t sword of destruction like everyone else now!), and totally safe (no PvP).
the carnival wasn't satisfying as a kid, and MMOs aren't as an adult.
Turbine for teh win.
www.TheChippedDagger.com My 90-day 2D Java MMORPG project
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
They are overwhelmed by Tolkien's world. The amount of content to have two sides humbled and belittled their small staff. What this means is what will be there will be good. Though examples such as Everquest II negate the statement somewhat. Even if this announcement is a half-hearted way to state: It's too much and we can't do it; it is in our best interest to judge the product when it is released and when we get to experience the gameplay capriciously for ourselves. No one can blame them, to bring to life a fantasy world of that magnitude is a hefty task.
No no, you've all got it wrong.
The Lord of the Rings isn't about any kind of conflict - its about those lovely Nazgul fellows who pop over to their friends the elves for a nice cup of tea. They invite the hobbits, orcs and humans round and they all have a jolly good laugh.
No PvP??? All mmorpgs should be PvP and PvE. Imagine the epic battles there could have been plus politics/land control/sieges all wrapped in the Tolkien myth. None of that will happen. We'll get a cookie-cutter EQ clone set at a static time during one of the novels (that time may change every 6 months if we're really lucky).
Rubbish- i won't be playing this. What a disappointment.
If Im not mistaken, what ur talking is OPEN PvP, not many games have it (I think). Open PvP isnt very logical in a game if there isnt good and evil, where u could attack players of the other side any time u see them. Since this game isnt going to have good/evil ur post doenst make much sense, I guess
In MEO there should be PvP but restricted, like clan battles, castle sieges.... But without PvP there can also be great battles. Imagine receiving in ur news book that there was a great orc invasion starting to come out from mordor and it is going to strike Minas Tirith in 5 days! The players would join to fight the huge group od orcs.... But this scenario could only happen if the orc AI was at least high, cuz they should march down the roads till they hit minas tirith and then get evrybody on their posts....
Well, what I mean is that such huge battle dont necessarily mean there needs to be PvP, but PvP should be implemented to this game
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Played- Runescape, Conquer
Tested- EQ, RYL, Freeworld
Well, the game sounded interesting, but now that it isn't PvP, it isn't worth my time.
~Iragael Vandayanaa,
Elder of the Vandayanaa Dynasty,
Knight,
Order of the Shield,
Sacred Silver Blades.
My icon is copyright Jonathon Earl Bowser.
There was never any PvP planned for the game at all.
The only change in the news announcement was the removal of the Alignment system. PvP was never slated to be included in MEO.
**Sigh** ..............Well another MMORPG I will not be playing! It is sad that these companies forget about us PvP'ers. It seems stupid for MEO not to have PvP, Same thing with Star Trek Online, All these races that hate each other and can not fight each other! I guess Orcs should hold halflings hands and sing songs by the fire, and Romulans and Klingons she go tra-la-la and stick flowers in there hair! Guess I will have to hope for D&L.
Cheers,
Bilas
'She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?"
Orcs are not playable race...never were
this is pathetic.
"Let's have story time kids....now you be nice....no fighting, swearing, or callng names. you might hurt someone's feelings."
Make me wanna PUKE!
Orcs are not playable race...never were
Well gosh!! Pick any race in the game that hates the other and use that! Or do all the playable races love each other?
'She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head or set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some little sign that she cared?"
DAMNIT!
Yet another game i wanted to play went down the path of pussy.
bye bye MEO......maybe they should call it "MEOW".....pussies.
Joined - July 2004
Did you ever stop to think about why they aren't doing PvP? First off, with DDO, there's PERMADEATH. Most people don't wanna lose their character(s) to a griefer with nothing better to do than kill other people just to piss them off. With MEO, the biggest issue's probably the fact that they'd have to Balance each class for PvE THEN again for PvP, which is first off nearly impossible. Why? Because no matter what they do, people will always bitch that one class is stronger than another. This will save them that hassle. Also, it's a lot of extra work to do that balancing, so it'll save them a lot of time as well. They may add in PvP later on, but for release, it's a lot more intelligent to go the no PvP route.
So what your saying is Turbine went the easy way out and Middle Earth Online goes pussy?
You have the worst argument.
Perma death in DDO? Where do you see this. Taken straight from the official DDO FAQ:
"What happens when my character dies? Character death will be something to be avoided there will definitely be a penalty to pay when your character dies. However, your characters cannot be permanently killed in Dungeons & Dragons Online."
You are right about one thing though, it is hard to balance PvE and PvP. Turbine just doesn't want to deal with it. They are ripping off the players. Anyone who comes up with the excuse, "it doesn't fit the story," ssshhh. These aren't direct translations of the LoTR or DnD. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. A straight translation is near impossible and it would probably be boring for everyone except for the most hardcore fans. If a developer or any fanboy wants to fall back on that excuse, it's weak to selectively choose when to follow the original concept when something is too difficult.
Going no PvP is extremely unintelligent. PvP creates a lot of entertainment and drama. It creates more community and keeps the high end and hardcore players in the game. No PvP will hurt DDO and MEO in the long run when people get bored witih just questing and trading with each other. How are you supposed to settle who is the superior player, just by arguing?! Pffft.
Joined - July 2004
you have to look at it by a coders view...balancing pvp is extremely hard, and it becomes even more difficult as new expansions/updates add new stuff to the game constantly
Not everyone plays MMO's to "be superior". In all the great single player RPG's the opponents were computer controlled mobs too. One of the best RPG's i've played was Secret of Mana for the SNES which allowed 3 players to team up and play through the storyline. You don't need to kill each other to have multiplayer fun.
I play MMO's solely for coop adventuring and community. PvP usually comes down to levels and equipment anyway.
I have Counterstrike/WC3/Battlefield1942 to satisfy PvP.
As for DDO, they did say that there would be no PvP in at launch... but they did not 100% rule out adding dueling or such later on.
I agree about that... in AC1, Turbine catered COMPLETELY to the "white" (non-PVP) servers and this, in the end, screwed over Darktide (PVP server). They pretty much just didn't feel like investing any extra time into satisfying the small group of people on the PVP server (probably less than 10% of players played there) and just let things all go to hell for Darktide. In the 3 years or so after AC1 came out, DT was one of the most fun things ever, then Turbine slowly let it decay and now it is terrible. For example: of all the quest weapons and other weapons in the game, only two or so were actually good for PVP fighting. They spent most of their time making all the items "attractive" and they ended up being useless. Then AC2 came out... worst PVP ever. Now they just gave up. I now have absolutely no respect for them.
Lets see no PvP, no playable wizards so all the Gandalf wannabees are out of luck, no pet magic in the books either except for a few talking birds, so pet classes are out. No ranged healing cause none of that is in the books either..
Hmmm sounds like a Middle Earth theme park. Like I am really gonna drop 50 bucks on that box and 15 a month just so I can see all the sights and kill a few skellies with pathing problems.
You want to see why this game is gonna fall on its butt? Go spend some time reading their forums. 27 pages of posts by 6 or 7 posters on whether Gandalf spoke words to cast spells or just wiggled his finger. It's like a whos the biggest nerd contest over there and they are down to the ten semi finalists.
I miss DAoC
lmao
PC's casting magic makes absolutely no sense in a Tolkein world. Spellcasting was the domain of the Vayar and Mayar. Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Hobbits, and the like never used magic nor did they have any such ability. Similarly there wouldn't be any viable precedent for a pet class in that world.
I really don't know what MEO has planned, but it's not really sensible to consider a lack of spellcasting or pet classes in a Tolkein world to be the fault of the development team.
Never said it was the fault of the dev team now did I? Just listing reasons why the game will never see my money.
Not wanting to sound like I am in the semi finals of the nerd contest however if you bother reading some of the books you would find that Elves did have some magic ( that was even in the movies) and so did Dwarfs in the form of Runecasting whaich was taught to them by the Elves. Among men there was the 'witch king' who may or may not have dabbled in magic, and mentions of men practicing necromancy. Hobbits had no magical powers to be sure although it is rumored they could throw fireballs friom their behinds if they ate too many beans and sat too close to the fire.
Oh well I have exceeded my nerd quota for the evening, do a google search if you want to know more. But yes there was magic in middle earth, subtle but it was there.
I miss DAoC