Dupe bug, SV denies the real damage.

Slapshot1188 · July 2010

Guess he and his Councelor friends have been too busy the last few hours to come back and post here. I'm sure they will catch up tomorrow :-)

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Guess he and his Councelor friends have been too busy the last few hours to come back and post here. I'm sure they will catch up tomorrow :-)

Will be waiting to hear what they have to say

Toferio · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I'm sure they will catch up tomorrow :-)

I'm sure topic wont exist tomorrow, lol..

Slapshot1188 · July 2010

The customers made a poll about how they need to name all the exploiters. The forum shows 85% support this. Of course, if you add up all the percentages in the poll it equals 107.64%

ROFL

forcem · July 2010

i want to know who duped and what they duped and in which guild theyt are. maybe some keeps are made with ilegal materials.

BLittmanEsq · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Guess he and his Councelor friends have been too busy the last few hours to come back and post here. I'm sure they will catch up tomorrow :-)

Hmm... so who on these forums is employed by SV?

raff01 · July 2010

Originally posted by BLittmanEsq

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Guess he and his Councelor friends have been too busy the last few hours to come back and post here. I'm sure they will catch up tomorrow :-)

Hmm... so who on these forums is employed by SV?

about all mods are.

lethys · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
The customers made a poll about how they need to name all the exploiters. The forum shows 85% support this. Of course, if you add up all the percentages in the poll it equals 107.64%

ROFL

Guess that means SV is now messing with the polls on the forums too. Did a bad job I guess with the numbers. They were the dev company that said they were different from this, that they wouldn't sink this low. At least it was about two years ago when they said that. Now its a complete joke.

SnarlingWolf · July 2010

Originally posted by lethys

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
The customers made a poll about how they need to name all the exploiters. The forum shows 85% support this. Of course, if you add up all the percentages in the poll it equals 107.64%

ROFL

Guess that means SV is now messing with the polls on the forums too. Did a bad job I guess with the numbers. They were the dev company that said they were different from this, that they wouldn't sink this low. At least it was about two years ago when they said that. Now its a complete joke.

Or their poll code is doing the math wrong on percentages. In that screen shot there is 310 votes shown. 246 votes is 79.35% not 85.42%. 42 votes is 13.54 % and 22 votes is 7.09% = 99.98% because I cut off some decimals.

Sometimes the easiest answer is the right one, not the consipracy theory.

Rohn · July 2010

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by lethys

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
The customers made a poll about how they need to name all the exploiters. The forum shows 85% support this. Of course, if you add up all the percentages in the poll it equals 107.64%

ROFL

Guess that means SV is now messing with the polls on the forums too. Did a bad job I guess with the numbers. They were the dev company that said they were different from this, that they wouldn't sink this low. At least it was about two years ago when they said that. Now its a complete joke.

Or their poll code is doing the math wrong on percentages. In that screen shot there is 310 votes shown. 246 votes is 79.35% not 85.42%. 42 votes is 13.54 % and 22 votes is 7.09% = 99.98% because I cut off some decimals.

Sometimes the easiest answer is the right one, not the consipracy theory.

The reason is that it's a multiple choice poll - the guy who made it allowed respondants to pick one, some, or all of the choices. In the area directly below the screenshot provided (which was conveniently cropped to eliminate), it identifies it as a multiple choice poll.

As SnarlingWolf aptly pointed out, conspiracy theorists usually end up looking foolish.

Regarding the decision on naming and blaming, SV made the correct and professional one, which basically follows the established industry standard.

Here's the complete picture of the poll:

Yamota · July 2010

I dont know which is worse. They intentionally skewing poll numbers or being so incompetent that they cant code simple percentage math.

This game is such a train wreck that it is fun just reading post after post about all the ridicilous things going on.

cagan · July 2010

I am actually planning to give this game a try next year when the open beta ends. They are still working on many major issues like skill system etc. Thanx to all the testers working to find the new bugs.

Rohn · July 2010

Originally posted by Yamota
I dont know which is worse. They intentionally skewing poll numbers or being so incompetent that they cant code simple percentage math.

This game is such a train wreck that it is fun just reading post after post about all the ridicilous things going on.

Wow. Reading can be a good thing.

Read the post directly above yours. The numbers weren't skewed, and the math coding wasn't wrong. It's a multiple choice poll. Theoretically, each choice could read 100%, if every person chose all the options.

The power of preconceived notions is awesome, especially when reinforced by misleading "proof".

Toferio · July 2010

This is pathetic.. Maerlyn posted a reply in that name and shame thread:

"We already informed you what our stance on this particular issue is and what happend regarding the incident on the 10th.

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/4...july-10th.html

I will also close this thread now since it served its purpose.

Despite the bloodlust in this thread and the cry for a public witch hunt:

There will be no public "shaming" of people."

Geez, talk about reading comprehension fail.. People were asking for a status update if the duped materials were removed and exploiters banned, not to name and shame anyone.. But he read what he wanted and locked it.. Good job SV about LYING THAT BUG WAS ON FOR "COUPLE OF HOURS". There goes my sub.

Slapshot1188 · July 2010

Par for the course. I'd wager that the biggest exploiters were part of the IRC coolkids club as well.

furidiam · July 2010

rlmcoy.........time to move on mate you are banging your head against a wall with the constant bashing of this game.

FYI i tried the beta for.......10 min.......then removed it lol

TheHavok · July 2010

Originally posted by Toferio
Well, new bug is up, this seems to be a pretty serious issue.

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49350-npc-steel-11-1-gold-1000-a.html

To quote in case of thread being deleted:

So, I notice a disturbing trend. I see that Steel is selling for ridiculously low prices by players. Down to 20 Gold / Stack in some cases from 50G a few patches ago. This boggles my mind because after the last couple of patches the Risar stopped dropping a lot of Pig Iron, and we now have depletable nodes. Logic would dictate that prices would rise and supply would fall with these changes. Apparently the NPC's didn't get the memo.

What do I mean? NPC's have infinite quantity of the goods they sell. You can go to a Wood Vendor and buy 10,000 Brownwood if you want to. This is the way they are intended to work. There is a problem with this when it comes to goods sold to the vendor, specifically with extracted and refined goods. This is because these goods are only player-made (for the most part) and the costs at which the NPC's sell them, in most cases, do not reflect their actual market value.

If you haven't figured it out by now, this is the dupe most people are clamoring about. I wouldn't even call it a dupe so much as terrible programming, but it is an exploit that is undermining the economy. It makes the 10s books look like nothing comparatively.

I won't explain how to do it in detail. If you want to figure out then there are plenty of posts in the Bug Tracker to fill you in. It's pretty shitty to think for how long this has been in the game, and how many people have been using it, obviously quite a lot have, given the trade prices.

The bottom line is that you can buy 12,000 Steel / trade at the NPC for ~130 Gold.

AKA ~11 Gold / Stack of 1000 Steel.

I don't have the data, but I imagine people doing the same for things like Tungsteel & Cronite, and the effect being exponentially worse. Get it together Starvault...

TLDR; version- It seems that if you sell 1k of steel to the vendor, you can buy 5k back, so the stacks multiply somehow, and more items are available then player actually sold. I can see why this is drasticly affecting economy atm, making steel go for NPC price.

Update: Now SV also started lying that the bug only been around for hours, while it was confirmed by many members to be around for weeks.

Wow...that is so horrible. I feel sorry for the players that don't use this exploit and have to compete on the market with the players that do use this exploit. Pretty shitty.

Keller · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Par for the course. I'd wager that the biggest exploiters were part of the IRC coolkids club as well.

maybe you're right, but if you compare the names on IRC with the frequent posters in the bugtracker, you can also see that at least 75% match. The fanbois aka IRC Coolkids are carrying the game, they did a lot of beta-testing and now they are resubbing. Don't believe they used the duping. But I guess some of them have guildies that only joined the beta powerhouse guilds to be part of the "winning" team, they might have heard from the bugs that way. Most of those powerhouse guilds have decent core-members and leaders, so my guess is; they will review their new members and boot them. No genuine guild wants to be seen as exploiters.

Still a shame that SV is trying to say no harm is done to the ingame economy. What about the only ingame feature which guilds were able to work for? Building a keep. Who can tell which keep is built without the help of duping?

ChinaCat · July 2010

I feel bad for SV. The choices they have to genuinely deal with this all suck. In this thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49728-so-anyone-know-anyone-all-got-banned-duping-week.html there is no evidence of any bans, but I didn't expect any and that's not the point any way. Wiping the server would have been what's best for the game, but then SV faced many issues guessing how the players would react to dealing with investor reaction. Personally I think you cut your loses, do the wipe and hope by doing the right thing for the game on the whole attracts & retains the most people. Instead I fear over the next day as the play period that came with purchase price of game on June 9th will find the subscription base very low and no idea where the funds are going to come from to turn this game around. MMO's are complex and I'd think require a fair amount of money to continue running, servicing and coding.

-CC

thorppes · July 2010

As for the duped items they are being deleted.

HerculesSAS · July 2010

Originally posted by thorppes
As for the duped items they are being deleted.

I think people's bigger concern is the damage it's already done to the economy, and the suspecting view that SV hasn't banned anybody for this offense. I think that's logical though, they need them to resubscribe in order to keep the game afloat, and from what the rumors were -- one of the bigger guilds were guilty of the duping, so if they got banned, a huge chunk of the player base would be missing as well.

HerculesSAS · July 2010

Originally posted by ChinaCat
I feel bad for SV. The choices they have to genuinely deal with this all suck. In this thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49728-so-anyone-know-anyone-all-got-banned-duping-week.html there is no evidence of any bans, but I didn't expect any and that's not the point any way. Wiping the server would have been what's best for the game, but then SV faced many issues guessing how the players would react to dealing with investor reaction. Personally I think you cut your loses, do the wipe and hope by doing the right thing for the game on the whole attracts & retains the most people. Instead I fear over the next day as the play period that came with purchase price of game on June 9th will find the subscription base very low and no idea where the funds are going to come from to turn this game around. MMO's are complex and I'd think require a fair amount of money to continue running, servicing and coding.

-CC

Seems as if they deleted that thread entirely.

Keller · July 2010

Originally posted by thorppes
As for the duped items they are being deleted.

That's not really covering it all. What about skill gains? Crafters had access to limitless resources. House-builders, could build endlessly. SV has pointed out in the past that trading items and services is something every player has to participate. No player is self sufficient. The exploiters probably have crafters and house-builders with maxed out skills. Which gives them a pretty dominant postion in the trading business. Sure people will still skill up their crafters, but most people will go to the person which provides the better quality weaponry for the lowest price. Deleting the duped items is a start....

mverhoevve · July 2010

Isn't there something called a rollback for such severe cases

(oh wait competence)

PoopBucket · July 2010

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Originally posted by ChinaCat

I feel bad for SV. The choices they have to genuinely deal with this all suck. In this thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49728-so-anyone-know-anyone-all-got-banned-duping-week.html there is no evidence of any bans, but I didn't expect any and that's not the point any way. Wiping the server would have been what's best for the game, but then SV faced many issues guessing how the players would react to dealing with investor reaction. Personally I think you cut your loses, do the wipe and hope by doing the right thing for the game on the whole attracts & retains the most people. Instead I fear over the next day as the play period that came with purchase price of game on June 9th will find the subscription base very low and no idea where the funds are going to come from to turn this game around. MMO's are complex and I'd think require a fair amount of money to continue running, servicing and coding.

-CC

Seems as if they deleted that thread entirely.

What ever happened with this?? Does anyone know for a fact what was done?

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Dupe bug, SV denies the real damage.

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Dupe bug, SV denies the real damage.

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