This move is just more BS pandering to the instant gratification crowd.
I guess the public gets what the public deserves though, and if being ripped off by so called 'free to play' is it who am I to say otherwise.
For me though PLAY to achieve will always beat PAY to achieve, but then I am a gamer and not a shopper.
So then what is your issue with LOTRO going to their hybrid model then? You want to PLAY and spend TIME to get things, then do so. Everything in the cash shop can be gained this way.
Smith You're arguing with someone who doesn't give a hoot if it ruins the game for you just as long as they can get their shiny bauble.
Funny thing about that comment, and the argument theyre having (and so many other people in other threads) is this:
Anti-F2P people say things like F2Ps are full of instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies, or that they are pay to win and people dont earn anything in the game, or comments like them being "pay 2 not play" as in skipping over gameplay, etc.
But then here they are presented with a model like DDO & LOTRO that gives you a chance to either invest $ to progress, or invest time and earn your way through the game for free. And what does everyone do? Cry that its too hard, it takes too long, they shouldnt have to work hard for the stuff, it should be easier and faster to get, etc.
Kind of sounds to me like the anti-F2P people in this case are the instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies who dont want to have to work for anything and just want it all handed to them with no work & no money.
You might think that. Then you realize there are things in DDO that you cannot get anywhere except in the cash shop. You must buy it there is no other way. That there are things that once would have taken literally years to get that can be had for an absurd amount of cash instantly.
You get Turbine points trough gameplay (and by subscribing) so you can get everything in the shop through gameplay/sub.
Which actually seperates LotrO/DDO from all the Pay 2 play MMOs with cash shop where you cant get thoose things without paying extra.
And please, list the things in the DDO store that take "literally years to get"!
Lets start with the one already listed. A complete set of +2 tomes for your character. I'm sure you can find the rest on your own.
Right. So because the time required to get it is more then you feel you can spend, it's unattainable? It comes down to choice. Which commodity do you want to spend? Time, or money.
Smith You're arguing with someone who doesn't give a hoot if it ruins the game for you just as long as they can get their shiny bauble.
Funny thing about that comment, and the argument theyre having (and so many other people in other threads) is this:
Anti-F2P people say things like F2Ps are full of instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies, or that they are pay to win and people dont earn anything in the game, or comments like them being "pay 2 not play" as in skipping over gameplay, etc.
But then here they are presented with a model like DDO & LOTRO that gives you a chance to either invest $ to progress, or invest time and earn your way through the game for free. And what does everyone do? Cry that its too hard, it takes too long, they shouldnt have to work hard for the stuff, it should be easier and faster to get, etc.
Kind of sounds to me like the anti-F2P people in this case are the instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies who dont want to have to work for anything and just want it all handed to them with no work & no money.
You might think that. Then you realize there are things in DDO that you cannot get anywhere except in the cash shop. You must buy it there is no other way. That there are things that once would have taken literally years to get that can be had for an absurd amount of cash instantly.
Not true. Again, you can earn the cash shop currency in game. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's a grind. But there is nothing in the shop that you cannot attain without either an investment of time, or money, your choice.
Damn, beat me to it :-P
Anyway, i get that some of you guys think its too much of a grind and i get that it probably is a bit excessive, but the point is still the same, youve got the option of doing it either way, its a matte rof personal preference and wether you feel that those items are worth eithe ryour time or money.
My personal preference... rather than spending 100+ hours grinding out stuff just to play a game for free, id rather spend half that time earning a few thousand $ working, go spend it on important things IRL (like a decent car. bills, rent, etc) and then use what I have left to spend on stuff ingame to eliminate my need to grind away in order to play with pixels for free. This way i not only have things i need & want IRL, but i can also do what i enjoy doing in the game rather than something im pretty much required to do almost like a 2nd job (like grinding) so i can enjoy it afterwards.
Does it break immersion for some? Sure. But ive got news for you folks... youre playing with pixels on a screen controlled by a keyboard and mouse, youre not immersed in anything. Its a game, and it should be fun, not a tedious job. If grinding is your idea of fun & immersive, more power to you, but thats not the case for everyone else. Myself, ill be having fun having money saved up to go do fun things IRL on top of having just as much fun as you in the game, while youre grinding away because some of you cant get over the fact that you have to either work for or pay for something.
I know, some of you will come on here and say some nonsense about things like not "earning" what i have in the game, and youre welcome to that opinion. My opinion though... i worked a hell of a lot harder for that $ than you did playing a game, so if anything i "earned" it more than you. Regardless of wether I earned it through playing the game, or earned it outside of the game, i still worked for it and theres no arguing that.
Smith You're arguing with someone who doesn't give a hoot if it ruins the game for you just as long as they can get their shiny bauble.
Funny thing about that comment, and the argument theyre having (and so many other people in other threads) is this:
Anti-F2P people say things like F2Ps are full of instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies, or that they are pay to win and people dont earn anything in the game, or comments like them being "pay 2 not play" as in skipping over gameplay, etc.
But then here they are presented with a model like DDO & LOTRO that gives you a chance to either invest $ to progress, or invest time and earn your way through the game for free. And what does everyone do? Cry that its too hard, it takes too long, they shouldnt have to work hard for the stuff, it should be easier and faster to get, etc.
Kind of sounds to me like the anti-F2P people in this case are the instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies who dont want to have to work for anything and just want it all handed to them with no work & no money.
You might think that. Then you realize there are things in DDO that you cannot get anywhere except in the cash shop. You must buy it there is no other way. That there are things that once would have taken literally years to get that can be had for an absurd amount of cash instantly.
Not true. Again, you can earn the cash shop currency in game. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's a grind. But there is nothing in the shop that you cannot attain without either an investment of time, or money, your choice.
Damn, beat me to it :-P
Anyway, i get that some of you guys think its too much of a grind and i get that it probably is a bit excessive, but the point is still the same, youve got the option of doing it either way, its a matte rof personal preference and wether you feel that those items are worth eithe ryour time or money.
My personal preference... rather than spending 100+ hours grinding out stuff just to play a game for free, id rather spend half that time earning a few thousand $ working, go spend it on important things IRL (like a decent car. bills, rent, etc) and then use what I have left to spend on stuff ingame to eliminate my need to grind away in order to play with pixels for free. This way i not only have things i need & want IRL, but i can also do what i enjoy doing in the game rather than something im pretty much required to do almost like a 2nd job (like grinding) so i can enjoy it afterwards.
Does it break immersion for some? Sure. But ive got news for you folks... youre playing with pixels on a screen controlled by a keyboard and mouse, youre not immersed in anything. Its a game, and it should be fun, not a tedious job. If grinding is your idea of fun & immersive, more power to you, but thats not the case for everyone else. Myself, ill be having fun having money saved up to go do fun things IRL on top of having just as much fun as you in the game, while youre grinding away because some of you cant get over the fact that you have to either work for or pay for something.
I know, some of you will come on here and say some nonsense about things like not "earning" what i have in the game, and youre welcome to that opinion. My opinion though... i worked a hell of a lot harder for that $ than you did playing a game, so if anything i "earned" it more than you. Regardless of wether I earned it through playing the game, or earned it outside of the game, i still worked for it and theres no arguing that.
If you don't have the time do not play it. Easy. You are forced to buy and play these games. Play games you do have time for.
i am against F2P games normally because i like knowing that the other people i am competeing against or with have at least made a half way commitment to takeing the game seriously by forking over some cash to be there with me. i think F2P games invite people into the game who may be there to just screw around and mess with people , and people that prob dont belong in this type of game enviornment. That said, i will be trying out LOtR when it goes free, and i wouldn't have if i would have had to kick out some cash to play it.. THUS i have now become my own nemisis.... ....... i bet i'm plotting against me right now.... i am going to have to stop me..
Smith You're arguing with someone who doesn't give a hoot if it ruins the game for you just as long as they can get their shiny bauble.
Funny thing about that comment, and the argument theyre having (and so many other people in other threads) is this:
Anti-F2P people say things like F2Ps are full of instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies, or that they are pay to win and people dont earn anything in the game, or comments like them being "pay 2 not play" as in skipping over gameplay, etc.
But then here they are presented with a model like DDO & LOTRO that gives you a chance to either invest $ to progress, or invest time and earn your way through the game for free. And what does everyone do? Cry that its too hard, it takes too long, they shouldnt have to work hard for the stuff, it should be easier and faster to get, etc.
Kind of sounds to me like the anti-F2P people in this case are the instant gratification gotta have it now kiddies who dont want to have to work for anything and just want it all handed to them with no work & no money.
You might think that. Then you realize there are things in DDO that you cannot get anywhere except in the cash shop. You must buy it there is no other way. That there are things that once would have taken literally years to get that can be had for an absurd amount of cash instantly.
Not true. Again, you can earn the cash shop currency in game. Yes, it takes time. Yes, it's a grind. But there is nothing in the shop that you cannot attain without either an investment of time, or money, your choice.
Damn, beat me to it :-P
Anyway, i get that some of you guys think its too much of a grind and i get that it probably is a bit excessive, but the point is still the same, youve got the option of doing it either way, its a matte rof personal preference and wether you feel that those items are worth eithe ryour time or money.
My personal preference... rather than spending 100+ hours grinding out stuff just to play a game for free, id rather spend half that time earning a few thousand $ working, go spend it on important things IRL (like a decent car. bills, rent, etc) and then use what I have left to spend on stuff ingame to eliminate my need to grind away in order to play with pixels for free. This way i not only have things i need & want IRL, but i can also do what i enjoy doing in the game rather than something im pretty much required to do almost like a 2nd job (like grinding) so i can enjoy it afterwards.
Does it break immersion for some? Sure. But ive got news for you folks... youre playing with pixels on a screen controlled by a keyboard and mouse, youre not immersed in anything. Its a game, and it should be fun, not a tedious job. If grinding is your idea of fun & immersive, more power to you, but thats not the case for everyone else. Myself, ill be having fun having money saved up to go do fun things IRL on top of having just as much fun as you in the game, while youre grinding away because some of you cant get over the fact that you have to either work for or pay for something.
I know, some of you will come on here and say some nonsense about things like not "earning" what i have in the game, and youre welcome to that opinion. My opinion though... i worked a hell of a lot harder for that $ than you did playing a game, so if anything i "earned" it more than you. Regardless of wether I earned it through playing the game, or earned it outside of the game, i still worked for it and theres no arguing that.
If you don't have the time do not play it. Easy. You are forced to buy and play these games. Play games you do have time for.
I never said i dont have time, in fact ive got more time than most working people since im also able to get in some play time from work most days while getting paid. I simply have better use for my time than than grinding pointless crap, wether it be in an F2P or P2P. Some people play to achieve things ingame, and thats all that matters to them. i play to have fun, so if i can pay a bit to skip past the stuff i dont find fun, such as grinding, then whats wrong with that?
So many of you are stuck on this "if you dont play the same way as me youre wrong" BS, but last i checked none of you were in charge of my time or bank account and have no right to tell anyone else how they should spend their time playing. Theres various options out there, and i make use of them rather than insisting that one way is right and anything else is wrong because im stuck in what used to be the norm.
5) No longer with getting that rare horse drop be so presitgious. Everybody will have one. Only 8.99 this week!!! Limited supplies get one now!! Or worse, you can only obtain an item through the shop. Are we grocery shopping here, or playing a game trying to build a legacy? So you dont play for fun...you are actually trying to build a legacy...wow much E-fame ! ... Plus, if mounts are sold on the shop...I can absolutly live with that.
Its a total sham that you can't obtain items through the game you are playing. Instead you have to buy it through an item shop. Totally false, because powerful items will definetly be avaible to players ingame. Even if some items are available only trough RMT, those items will probably be dyes, exp bonus, or sh1ts like dat. Is that what we all envisioned this genre to be? Paying for items from outside sources instead of playing the game to get ingame rewards? Dont be dramatic, you know it wont be the case... if you want to work to get good gear you will still be able to do so.
4) No more economy from things like healing potions, or any other potion these shops deem non-essential to crafters. Would WoW even have an economy if you could just buy enchants and potions from the online store? Wrong Again, do you know any sane man who would spend hundreds $ on potions and enchants...they propably would on Uber Items but not on potions and enchants. No, it wouldn't. Buying goods in EC tunnels in EQ was a unique experience that I loved. Why is that devs thinks it OK to leave out the economy? In DDO, the only way to get powerful potions is through the online store.
3) Our games will become less about accomplishments. Hard to believe, but yes after all those 100% XP pots, and 100% increased loot potions what will anything mean? It used to be prestigious. Now, its a sellout. Wow...getting max lvl is an achievement ?...it's quite the opposite because, in fact, it's only when you reach this said max lvl, that you begin to gather good gear and such. When you will get this bow or that sword or defeat this Raid boss...only then you can call it an achievement.
2) Our MMORPGs are quickly turning into a quick-serve chain. Need a healer? Buy one for 1 hour for only 2 dollars!! Need a quick heal? Buy it!! Need that extra XP? Buy it!! Need a boost in stats? Buy it!! Need help taking down Da Crusher? Buy your help!! Don't you think, you are going a bit crazy with this... I mean a MMORPG.com writter ( don't remember the name) said that game companies who offer crazy items will hit a wall one day or another... that's why you can't offer ''Uber-1337Megad34th-stuff that kill kitties'' .
1) Content being adjusted to shop items. This will happen. XP will be reduced to a crawl to entice people to buy. Loot will be rare, unless you buy a potion. That mob will need everyone in the raid to buy that special potion that reduces damage, or increases damage, or gives more HP. The XP thing might be true but the rest is all BS.
I was once all for online shops. But then I thought about how the items in the shops can't be found ingame. That makes no sense for a MMORPG. That only hurts the spirit of what this genre once was. Can we even call that gaming? Or just shopping?
MMORPGs are quickly becoming less about the adventure and interaction amongst players, and more about giving players an immediate service for a fee.
QUESTION: Quote: Originally Posted by Xridnasa: - What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's? - ANSWER: Quote: Originally Posted by sidimazz: - Kind of, just without the rapist.
i agree with siderus.. there maybe a few people who go stupid spending hundreds of dollars to buy everthing they can, but those are going to be a huge minority of game players.. getting maxed out asap is stupid because u just made the game one big poitnless repeatable grind quest, which even the biggest "no-lifer" playing the game will tire of quickly. most people play these games to have fun enjoying the excitment of the trip through the game, and the idea of being able to buy an item here or there to help u out of a jam isn't a horrible idea. there are def reason to dislike the F2P model, but i don't believe that should be one of them
Turbine does F2P the correct way by letting the game be playable 100% competitively (as "competitive" as MMORPGs are anyway) without paying.
Really? I don't think that is true at all, though Turbine seems less obvious about selling advantages than other F2P games. Examples, look at DDO as there are many...
- Want to play the newest class (and some would say the best healer class), either you got a massive in game grind (one that requires purchasing much of the cash shop adventures) or you buy it outright.
- Want +1 or +2 to all starting stats - pony up cash for +1 and +2 Tomes in the cash shop, easily some of the most sought after loot in the game before F2P.
- Want 32 point builds or Drow - pony up the dollars on the cash shop or grind it in game.
- XP potions, reserection items, etc, etc, etc,.
And there are more. Sure, it is not $20 for a sparkle pony but the idea that the game is 100% playable for free without severe and great disadvantage is ludicrous. Now, I don't think a game should be free to play so I am not critical on that point but it is worth contesting the ridiculous claims that the game can be played without disadvantage for free. And when you look through the things they are selling it is clear that more and more they are selling outright advantages and ways to avoid increasing grinds and over time that will get more and more sharp as that is how they get paid and that is the problem with the model, even if it is not as obvious as typical F2P games.
lol, I love this kind of counter points. "You can attain everything in game, but you have to invest time as opposed to money"
"Yeah, but that's a ridiculous amount of time, so, yeah, its stupid, and its a disadvantage to the non-cash shop user"
Doesn't change the FACT that everything in the cash shop can be attained in game with enough time invested.
First, I didn't say you cannot get various purchasable things with grinds, I pointed out that said grinds are a disadvantage so the statement that you can play everything for free without disadvantage is patently false. Second, there are many many many many items sold in the cash shop that are not attainable through playing and more often than not the play to earn method is so long that it really is not comparable in this respect. By example ... lifetime I have probably played 6 to 8 months total, taken half a dozen characters to cap, and done most of all the quests multiple times over and in all that time playing I have had only two +2 tomes ever drop for me so comparing that to someone buying, for like $50 or $75 bucks if I recall, a full set of +2 tomes at character creation is ridiculous.
So, what you are saying is, you don't like grind in your games? Boy, are you in the wrong genre.
Who does like grinds? There is a difference between playing the game to earn things and midnlessly repeating content an excessive and even ridiculous amount of time to earn points to buy in a cash shop what a few months prior to going free to play would have been available as part of paying to play or by a much more reasonable time playing the game.
At least Lotro is going the f2p way with their shop instead of charging a sub AND operating a shop like that steaming turd john smedly for eq1/eq2.
You cant get nothing of value from EQ/EQ2 shops except xp pots so wtf you talkin about. Sub or not the shop doesnt benefit any player unless you want xp pots. LOTRO is going to have real items on there shop so get a clue.
You are obviously ignorant of what the word "value" means. It means different things to different people.
Example, the furniture items that are offered on the eq2 shop are items that could have been added as recipes for crafters, making their skillset worth more.
The other items in the shop, including pets and costumes and whatnot are all things that truthfully belong as items that can be quested for or bought in game, not with your visa card.
If eq2 would go the true free to play route and put game changers in their store, then that would be fine. That's the model, go with it.
But to withhold items from the game unless you buy them seperate, it shows you as a greedy gus.
Kudos to lotro for having the guts to go ahead with their model. They aren't hiding anything. It is up front and honest. They know not everyone will like it, but if it keeps them in business and makes them more profitable, cool.
Your point of view is your point of view, but what a backwards one it is!
For one, do you have any idea of the vast amounts of house items in that game? Do you know that you can get house items through quests, merchants, mob drops, collection rewards, zone clickies, AND crafters in addition to the marketplace? If there are ten variations of a chair in the cash shop, one hundred others are obtained through gameplay. Adding the marketplace house items to a carpenter's recipe list isn't going to make one bit of difference in terms of the diserability of the carpentry skill because, for one, it doesn't matter at all what house items you have. House items are nothing more than fluff for players to spend their money on when they don't have anything else to buy for their toons or for guilds to help outfit their guild hall. A carpenter will never be as in demand as one who makes armor or spells, and the marketplace has nothing to do with that. House items do not affect gameplay, and that's what makes them perfectly fine to sell in a cash shop as opposed to loot and other items which can actually be obtained in the game.
The only value that house items, appearance armor, and pets have is personal value, and their inclusion within the marketplace affects the game world in no way whatsoever. You're never encouraged or forced to buy anything out of the shop and the purchases made are almost completely vanity related. Your worth is not judged by what appearance armor you have or how your house is decorated, and quite frankly, no one else cares that you have those things but you.
Now as I understand it, LoTRO subscribers can continue playing the game as if nothing happened, and the real restrictions only apply to the free players. If EQ2 were to follow that model, I would certainly be fine with it, because I would be able to play the game without feeling like the cash shop is an integral part of my enjoyment of the game which is exactly like EQ2 is currently.
5) No longer with getting that rare horse drop be so presitgious. Everybody will have one. Only 8.99 this week!!! Limited supplies get one now!! Or worse, you can only obtain an item through the shop. Are we grocery shopping here, or playing a game trying to build a legacy? So you dont play for fun...you are actually trying to build a legacy...wow much E-fame ! ... Plus, if mounts are sold on the shop...I can absolutly live with that.
Its a total sham that you can't obtain items through the game you are playing. Instead you have to buy it through an item shop. Totally false, because powerful items will definetly be avaible to players ingame. Even if some items are available only trough RMT, those items will probably be dyes, exp bonus, or sh1ts like dat. Is that what we all envisioned this genre to be? Paying for items from outside sources instead of playing the game to get ingame rewards? Dont be dramatic, you know it wont be the case... if you want to work to get good gear you will still be able to do so.
4) No more economy from things like healing potions, or any other potion these shops deem non-essential to crafters. Would WoW even have an economy if you could just buy enchants and potions from the online store? Wrong Again, do you know any sane man who would spend hundreds $ on potions and enchants...they propably would on Uber Items but not on potions and enchants. No, it wouldn't. Buying goods in EC tunnels in EQ was a unique experience that I loved. Why is that devs thinks it OK to leave out the economy? In DDO, the only way to get powerful potions is through the online store.
3) Our games will become less about accomplishments. Hard to believe, but yes after all those 100% XP pots, and 100% increased loot potions what will anything mean? It used to be prestigious. Now, its a sellout. Wow...getting max lvl is an achievement ?...it's quite the opposite because, in fact, it's only when you reach this said max lvl, that you begin to gather good gear and such. When you will get this bow or that sword or defeat this Raid boss...only then you can call it an achievement.
2) Our MMORPGs are quickly turning into a quick-serve chain. Need a healer? Buy one for 1 hour for only 2 dollars!! Need a quick heal? Buy it!! Need that extra XP? Buy it!! Need a boost in stats? Buy it!! Need help taking down Da Crusher? Buy your help!! Don't you think, you are going a bit crazy with this... I mean a MMORPG.com writter ( don't remember the name) said that game companies who offer crazy items will hit a wall one day or another... that's why you can't offer ''Uber-1337Megad34th-stuff that kill kitties'' .
1) Content being adjusted to shop items. This will happen. XP will be reduced to a crawl to entice people to buy. Loot will be rare, unless you buy a potion. That mob will need everyone in the raid to buy that special potion that reduces damage, or increases damage, or gives more HP. The XP thing might be true but the rest is all BS.
I was once all for online shops. But then I thought about how the items in the shops can't be found ingame. That makes no sense for a MMORPG. That only hurts the spirit of what this genre once was. Can we even call that gaming? Or just shopping?
MMORPGs are quickly becoming less about the adventure and interaction amongst players, and more about giving players an immediate service for a fee.
The only person i see full of BS here is you Sidereus is you. F2p will kill any good game. ive played sevral of the FsP games out there and there all junk.
However I understand your speaking from a fanboi point of view, Such responses like yours are the perfect example of Fanboiz. I get sick of all the experts and know-it- alls on this site. Sit at your desks with a Dictionary and thesaurus just waiting for the perfect post in which to try to make yourself sound like you know something.
Right, because F2P sure killed DDO... and all the F2P games that millions of people are playing.
Oh and there we have it folks, he played several F2Ps, so hes able to judge them all. Do you also see people of other races doing something bad and think to yourself stuff like "well that mexican guy is standing on the corner with no job, so all mexicans must not have jobs".
Yeah the comparison to racism might sound ridiculous, but its the same stereotyping bullshit based on a limited sample of the whole. You may not like the F2P games, but obviously a whole shitload of other people do or they wouldnt exist and be profiting and becoming more and more common. So what is junk to you, is obviously good to someone else. I could sit here all day and talk about how any and everything you have ever done or will ever do in your life is "junk" but you may love it and think its the best thing since sliced bread... its called an opinion.
Talk about fanboism.... claiming something is superior based on your own personal preference, and just because someone says different theyre somehow wrong.
The only person i see full of BS here is you Sidereus is you. F2p will kill any good game. ive played sevral of the FsP games out there and there all junk.
However I understand your speaking from a fanboi point of view, Such responses like yours are the perfect example of Fanboiz. I get sick of all the experts and know-it- alls on this site. Sit at your desks with a Dictionary and thesaurus just waiting for the perfect post in which to try to make yourself sound like you know something.
So you are basing your idea of what this game will be like on games based on a completely different model and then when you have the facts presented to you about how Turbine has done it before you call them a fanboi? Well done.
Up until now a lot of F2P games have been done based around cash shops in their entirety. Instead of subscription fees revenue can only be achieved through the shop. This causes a huge problem where the developers need to add things to those shops that players need to do much. However, LotRO, like DDO, will not be only based on these shops. Instead they will be based on a combination of subscription fees and item shops. This means that there is far less of a need for this. In DDO the items in the shop are not unbalancing to the effect that is described in so many of these posts.
Most of what the OP said was complete rhetoric spread by those ignorent of what has happened with DDO and how Turbine plans on going about this. So instead of just labeling people who have done the research as fanbois and know-it-alls you should look into how this model can add a lot to a game. Instead of just saying that F2P will kill any game how about you read up on the MMO industry some more?
What gets me is that people continue to say that $15 a month is the only way an MMO can be good when so many MMOs coming out now are terrible and a major reason is because they try and make a game that conforms to the other games on the market and don't use a payment system that would fit it better.
There may be one bright spot…. They can go fully instanced with chat/toon lobbies and quit calling themselves mmo’s
I mean instancing is a boon for saving on bandwidth costs. Seems like so many companies just jumped on the mmo bandwagon to get subs. But if the item shop will work for them, they can just make multi-player games with item shops and leave the mmo community alone…damnit. Then maybe we can get back to persistent worlds as the f2p crowd filters out into the f2p multi-player games.
FYI for the idiot impaird.. any game that has massive players is a mmo so get over yourself... hence the reason they call them MMOs. You dolts aren't happy unless you are creating problems... Who cares if a company jumps on the mmo band wagon and creats a item shop... you don't have to play the damn game and you don't have to use the item shop... freedom of choice.. And just because you pay to play a game doesn't make you any better than the person playing a free to play game..
What gets me is that people continue to say that $15 a month is the only way an MMO can be good when so many MMOs coming out now are terrible and a major reason is because they try and make a game that conforms to the other games on the market and don't use a payment system that would fit it better.
Hrm, so as more and more F2P elements and MMOs come along it is no coincidence that MMOs are getting worse and worse? Seriously, are you arguing the MMOs, individually or as a genre, are really getting better? They are getting worse by most standards save graphics quality and a big part of it is the drive to make a money make not the drive to make a great game that makes money because of its greatness and I think F2P plays on this exponentially.
What gets me is that people continue to say that $15 a month is the only way an MMO can be good when so many MMOs coming out now are terrible and a major reason is because they try and make a game that conforms to the other games on the market and don't use a payment system that would fit it better.
Hrm, so as more and more F2P elements and MMOs come along it is no coincidence that MMOs are getting worse and worse? Seriously, are you arguing the MMOs, individually or as a genre, are really getting better? They are getting worse by most standards save graphics quality and a big part of it is the drive to make a money make not the drive to make a great game that makes money because of its greatness and I think F2P plays on this exponentially.
I disagree. I think that the main problem with the MMO industry is that it is targeting only a certaain percentage of their potential customer base. I think that video games as a whole have a much stronger customer base and that it could be tapped with alternate payment models. I think that WoW somehow gain a huge part of the playerbase and MMOs that are coming out are cutting corners and becoming worse in quality because they are feeling like they have to get people in their game ASAP so that they can get a piece of the pie.
Let me say this. I don't think that any game should be "Free to Play". Any game that is that way is usually designed around item shops and people can argue about it, but those item shops tend to ruin games. This is because if your only revenue comes from an item shop you need everyone buying stuff from that shop. I think alternate payment models like the hybrid model though are a step in the right direction for the MMO genre. It gives players like me the ability to pay a subscription fee and still get everything. However, it also gives a lot more people the ability to get into the game and have the wonderfful opportunity to spend money on the game.
Crafted stuff sold in an item shop? Where's that idea come from? Was it in their announcement somewhere?
It's not. They just regurgitate the same talking points over and over with complete disregard for history or fact. If there are MMOs where you can buy major quest items, rare drops or epic items in the cash shop, they are very few and far between. That won't stop them from repeating the same misinformation over and over and over again.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Crafted stuff sold in an item shop? Where's that idea come from? Was it in their announcement somewhere?
It's not. They just regurgitate the same talking points over and over with complete disregard for history or fact. If there are MMOs where you can buy major quest items, rare drops or epic items in the cash shop, they are very few and far between. That won't stop them from repeating the same misinformation over and over and over again.
The worse thing I've seen ever in a an item shop was the heal barrels in Scions of Fate. Which basically gave someone a good hour spam worth of hp during pvp fights. They don't exist any more.
The people spouting out crap about F2P games are the same ones who believe there are going to be death panels.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Originally posted by eburnThat's the girliest thing I've seen on these forums ever. And I've seen MMO_Doubter signing "It's Raining Men" at a Navy keg party.
I'm just trying to keep people from arguing about minutia instead of really thinking about the real argument. There's really just no point to it.
The people spouting out crap about F2P games are the same ones who believe there are going to be death panels.
This is getting awefully close to political discussion and I think it's in everyone's best interests if we avoid that.
That's the girliest thing I've seen on these forums ever. And I've seen MMO_Doubter signing "It's Raining Men" at a Navy keg party.
All speculation, but my point is; 90% of the crap people say about F2P games is made up and out right lies.
Like the death panel BS.
I agree, sort of. I think that most of what people are saying is rhetoric bred from ignorance about the current state of alternative models. I don't know if it's made up (well some of it is for sure, but not all of it.), as much as outdated and based on game models that were completely different.
Comments
This move is just more BS pandering to the instant gratification crowd.
I guess the public gets what the public deserves though, and if being ripped off by so called 'free to play' is it who am I to say otherwise.
For me though PLAY to achieve will always beat PAY to achieve, but then I am a gamer and not a shopper.
So then what is your issue with LOTRO going to their hybrid model then? You want to PLAY and spend TIME to get things, then do so. Everything in the cash shop can be gained this way.
Right. So because the time required to get it is more then you feel you can spend, it's unattainable? It comes down to choice. Which commodity do you want to spend? Time, or money.
Damn, beat me to it :-P
Anyway, i get that some of you guys think its too much of a grind and i get that it probably is a bit excessive, but the point is still the same, youve got the option of doing it either way, its a matte rof personal preference and wether you feel that those items are worth eithe ryour time or money.
My personal preference... rather than spending 100+ hours grinding out stuff just to play a game for free, id rather spend half that time earning a few thousand $ working, go spend it on important things IRL (like a decent car. bills, rent, etc) and then use what I have left to spend on stuff ingame to eliminate my need to grind away in order to play with pixels for free. This way i not only have things i need & want IRL, but i can also do what i enjoy doing in the game rather than something im pretty much required to do almost like a 2nd job (like grinding) so i can enjoy it afterwards.
Does it break immersion for some? Sure. But ive got news for you folks... youre playing with pixels on a screen controlled by a keyboard and mouse, youre not immersed in anything. Its a game, and it should be fun, not a tedious job. If grinding is your idea of fun & immersive, more power to you, but thats not the case for everyone else. Myself, ill be having fun having money saved up to go do fun things IRL on top of having just as much fun as you in the game, while youre grinding away because some of you cant get over the fact that you have to either work for or pay for something.
I know, some of you will come on here and say some nonsense about things like not "earning" what i have in the game, and youre welcome to that opinion. My opinion though... i worked a hell of a lot harder for that $ than you did playing a game, so if anything i "earned" it more than you. Regardless of wether I earned it through playing the game, or earned it outside of the game, i still worked for it and theres no arguing that.
If you don't have the time do not play it. Easy. You are forced to buy and play these games. Play games you do have time for.
Hurray free market.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
i am against F2P games normally because i like knowing that the other people i am competeing against or with have at least made a half way commitment to takeing the game seriously by forking over some cash to be there with me. i think F2P games invite people into the game who may be there to just screw around and mess with people , and people that prob dont belong in this type of game enviornment. That said, i will be trying out LOtR when it goes free, and i wouldn't have if i would have had to kick out some cash to play it.. THUS i have now become my own nemisis.... ....... i bet i'm plotting against me right now.... i am going to have to stop me..
I never said i dont have time, in fact ive got more time than most working people since im also able to get in some play time from work most days while getting paid. I simply have better use for my time than than grinding pointless crap, wether it be in an F2P or P2P. Some people play to achieve things ingame, and thats all that matters to them. i play to have fun, so if i can pay a bit to skip past the stuff i dont find fun, such as grinding, then whats wrong with that?
So many of you are stuck on this "if you dont play the same way as me youre wrong" BS, but last i checked none of you were in charge of my time or bank account and have no right to tell anyone else how they should spend their time playing. Theres various options out there, and i make use of them rather than insisting that one way is right and anything else is wrong because im stuck in what used to be the norm.
QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
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What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
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ANSWER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidimazz:
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Kind of, just without the rapist.
i agree with siderus.. there maybe a few people who go stupid spending hundreds of dollars to buy everthing they can, but those are going to be a huge minority of game players.. getting maxed out asap is stupid because u just made the game one big poitnless repeatable grind quest, which even the biggest "no-lifer" playing the game will tire of quickly. most people play these games to have fun enjoying the excitment of the trip through the game, and the idea of being able to buy an item here or there to help u out of a jam isn't a horrible idea. there are def reason to dislike the F2P model, but i don't believe that should be one of them
Who does like grinds? There is a difference between playing the game to earn things and midnlessly repeating content an excessive and even ridiculous amount of time to earn points to buy in a cash shop what a few months prior to going free to play would have been available as part of paying to play or by a much more reasonable time playing the game.
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"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Your point of view is your point of view, but what a backwards one it is!
For one, do you have any idea of the vast amounts of house items in that game? Do you know that you can get house items through quests, merchants, mob drops, collection rewards, zone clickies, AND crafters in addition to the marketplace? If there are ten variations of a chair in the cash shop, one hundred others are obtained through gameplay. Adding the marketplace house items to a carpenter's recipe list isn't going to make one bit of difference in terms of the diserability of the carpentry skill because, for one, it doesn't matter at all what house items you have. House items are nothing more than fluff for players to spend their money on when they don't have anything else to buy for their toons or for guilds to help outfit their guild hall. A carpenter will never be as in demand as one who makes armor or spells, and the marketplace has nothing to do with that. House items do not affect gameplay, and that's what makes them perfectly fine to sell in a cash shop as opposed to loot and other items which can actually be obtained in the game.
The only value that house items, appearance armor, and pets have is personal value, and their inclusion within the marketplace affects the game world in no way whatsoever. You're never encouraged or forced to buy anything out of the shop and the purchases made are almost completely vanity related. Your worth is not judged by what appearance armor you have or how your house is decorated, and quite frankly, no one else cares that you have those things but you.
Now as I understand it, LoTRO subscribers can continue playing the game as if nothing happened, and the real restrictions only apply to the free players. If EQ2 were to follow that model, I would certainly be fine with it, because I would be able to play the game without feeling like the cash shop is an integral part of my enjoyment of the game which is exactly like EQ2 is currently.
Right, because F2P sure killed DDO... and all the F2P games that millions of people are playing.
Oh and there we have it folks, he played several F2Ps, so hes able to judge them all. Do you also see people of other races doing something bad and think to yourself stuff like "well that mexican guy is standing on the corner with no job, so all mexicans must not have jobs".
Yeah the comparison to racism might sound ridiculous, but its the same stereotyping bullshit based on a limited sample of the whole. You may not like the F2P games, but obviously a whole shitload of other people do or they wouldnt exist and be profiting and becoming more and more common. So what is junk to you, is obviously good to someone else. I could sit here all day and talk about how any and everything you have ever done or will ever do in your life is "junk" but you may love it and think its the best thing since sliced bread... its called an opinion.
Talk about fanboism.... claiming something is superior based on your own personal preference, and just because someone says different theyre somehow wrong.
So you are basing your idea of what this game will be like on games based on a completely different model and then when you have the facts presented to you about how Turbine has done it before you call them a fanboi? Well done.
Up until now a lot of F2P games have been done based around cash shops in their entirety. Instead of subscription fees revenue can only be achieved through the shop. This causes a huge problem where the developers need to add things to those shops that players need to do much. However, LotRO, like DDO, will not be only based on these shops. Instead they will be based on a combination of subscription fees and item shops. This means that there is far less of a need for this. In DDO the items in the shop are not unbalancing to the effect that is described in so many of these posts.
Most of what the OP said was complete rhetoric spread by those ignorent of what has happened with DDO and how Turbine plans on going about this. So instead of just labeling people who have done the research as fanbois and know-it-alls you should look into how this model can add a lot to a game. Instead of just saying that F2P will kill any game how about you read up on the MMO industry some more?
What gets me is that people continue to say that $15 a month is the only way an MMO can be good when so many MMOs coming out now are terrible and a major reason is because they try and make a game that conforms to the other games on the market and don't use a payment system that would fit it better.
FYI for the idiot impaird.. any game that has massive players is a mmo so get over yourself... hence the reason they call them MMOs. You dolts aren't happy unless you are creating problems... Who cares if a company jumps on the mmo band wagon and creats a item shop... you don't have to play the damn game and you don't have to use the item shop... freedom of choice.. And just because you pay to play a game doesn't make you any better than the person playing a free to play game..
Hrm, so as more and more F2P elements and MMOs come along it is no coincidence that MMOs are getting worse and worse? Seriously, are you arguing the MMOs, individually or as a genre, are really getting better? They are getting worse by most standards save graphics quality and a big part of it is the drive to make a money make not the drive to make a great game that makes money because of its greatness and I think F2P plays on this exponentially.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I disagree. I think that the main problem with the MMO industry is that it is targeting only a certaain percentage of their potential customer base. I think that video games as a whole have a much stronger customer base and that it could be tapped with alternate payment models. I think that WoW somehow gain a huge part of the playerbase and MMOs that are coming out are cutting corners and becoming worse in quality because they are feeling like they have to get people in their game ASAP so that they can get a piece of the pie.
Let me say this. I don't think that any game should be "Free to Play". Any game that is that way is usually designed around item shops and people can argue about it, but those item shops tend to ruin games. This is because if your only revenue comes from an item shop you need everyone buying stuff from that shop. I think alternate payment models like the hybrid model though are a step in the right direction for the MMO genre. It gives players like me the ability to pay a subscription fee and still get everything. However, it also gives a lot more people the ability to get into the game and have the wonderfful opportunity to spend money on the game.
It's not. They just regurgitate the same talking points over and over with complete disregard for history or fact. If there are MMOs where you can buy major quest items, rare drops or epic items in the cash shop, they are very few and far between. That won't stop them from repeating the same misinformation over and over and over again.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The worse thing I've seen ever in a an item shop was the heal barrels in Scions of Fate. Which basically gave someone a good hour spam worth of hp during pvp fights. They don't exist any more.
The people spouting out crap about F2P games are the same ones who believe there are going to be death panels.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
This is getting awefully close to political discussion and I think it's in everyone's best interests if we avoid that.
That's the girliest thing I've seen on these forums ever. And I've seen MMO_Doubter signing "It's Raining Men" at a Navy keg party.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
All speculation, but my point is; 90% of the crap people say about F2P games is made up and out right lies.
Like the death panel BS.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I'm just trying to keep people from arguing about minutia instead of really thinking about the real argument. There's really just no point to it.
I agree, sort of. I think that most of what people are saying is rhetoric bred from ignorance about the current state of alternative models. I don't know if it's made up (well some of it is for sure, but not all of it.), as much as outdated and based on game models that were completely different.