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Describe your ideal crafting mechanics.
jusomdude
Member RarePosts: 2,706
For me, I think my ideal crafting mechanics would involve some sort of timing based mini game, where you have to press keys at certain times to make a good item.
I'd also want some sort of slider or something you could increase to increase the quality of item made but for an increased failure chance.
Comments
As long as I can affect the outcome that's enough.
It should be completly based on your personal skills and not a mathematic formula that determines success/failure rates.
A mini-game based around timing is a great idea and the quality of the item should depend on your timing. Then there's also Mabinogi's mini-game for Tailoring where you would sew things together which I liked, etc.
Of course the downside of those mini-games is that it takes a lot more time so in the case of a skill-based game, grinding needs to be adjusted yet still encourage Dedicated Crafters. I believe that allowing everyone to be a crafter is bad for both the game and it's economy so I'm all for promoting Dedicated Crafters.
It's all the same. Find some stuff, find some recipe that lets you combine the stuff, press buttons.
It's not the process that matters. It's the way you integrate the role that process plays in the game and its community. SWG and DAoC had great crafting, but it was because in those games crafting mattered.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
DAoC and several other games did have good crafting the model i heard about MO having sounded intriging.
Never been a fan of the minigame crafting like EQ2 where you could die trying to make a cloth tunic or something. It did not take much to keep it from happening but it was more annoying than fun.
I give a player some gold, and he does all the crap involved in making something, then gives me some cool gear.
a system that let you affect the outcome, but only by your own experience know what will come out of it - make in game note pad so you can write it down, and you ofc would find new materials through the game time, really liked the raid dropped craft materials/recipes in EQ2...not too much of a fan of thier mini game, the best thing weree when needed other TS classes to make your own things, tho not very well balanced...ow and if you dont pay attention you d die...fun fun :P
then in the end let the skill you gain decide the qualit, this way you got a lvl less crafting, where your own experience count - granted some will start make sites about it, but that still a player choice....and in end you need the skills still to make the best things. over all am not much of a crafter meself, but like to make something useful when doing it, so dont want it too take too long, but dont want every item you can buy on the broker to be exact the same either....reason I love the ryzom model for crafting.
MMORPG combat is abstract (real physical combat doesn't involve mashing a few buttons.) Yet it's fun because it's an interesting system to unravel -- discovering the best sequence of abilities (which, in a good game, will change from fight to fight) is fun and interesting.
A good crafting system would be the same way. It would be an abstract yet interesting system to unravel.
Vanguard is an okay example (merely okay, since the UI is actually a little terrible at presenting your decisions.)
Haven & Hearth is alright too (each bit of crafting is very simple, but they combine in interesting ways and you end up crafting many things simultaneously, and they each end up having a quality based on all sorts of factors.)
Vanguard's diplomacy is an even better example -- it's not crafting, but it's exactly the sort of "new minigame to unravel" that I would want in a crafting system.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Vanguard got same problem as EQ2, once learned, slowly it gets quite boring...in both cases found them great at start, then just a grind.
ow and diplomacy one of the great side things the devs came up with indeed
As long as the item is ramdom and has a chance to have different stats on it than every other item I make is all that matters to me. So when you craft one that good you kinda wanna keep it and pass it on to another player or alt. I know AC2 had this in it's crafting and I think AC does as well.
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Yah I loved VG's Diplomacy...just wish it was integrated into mattering more.
But as for crafting would also love to see some real thoughtful mini games be employed. And not too mini either. (Diplomacy was a good example of a well thought out system)
My crafting would have recipes locked in random chests in the wilderness or ancient ruins, something a crafter could get to with a little help if needed, never be a drop from BOSS MOB A.
My crafting would yield items that LOOK better than stuff you find on mobs, and BE better than most as well.
You don't kill a dragon for his Purple "Chest Plate of OMGNess Everyone Wears It", you find enough useable scales to bring to your workshop and start making your own DragonScale armor...rainbow becasue you used scales from different dragons...and you roll like that.
My crafting is interesting enough to be played completely on its own without the need to pick up a sword (unless you are making them
)
Crafted items should be rare, and well worth the effort. Not only in stat benefit, but also in super cool customizeable looks that say "Man that dude looks badass" Not, "wow those shoulder pads look kinds cool but everyone has the same ones"
UO,AC1&2,EQ1&2,DAOC,SB,SWG,FFXI, Horizons,EvE,E&B,AO,WoW,VG, Lineage,GW,TR,LotR,AoC,CoH,DDO a myriad of FtP...and still looking...
I like atlantica online's crafting the most.
Reason is you can learn all the craft.
It's just that some of the craft is very hard to skill up, for example there's only like 10 people on the whole server that can craft dragon god's armor.
Like SWG before NGE. I don't like mini-games. The only "mini-game" I like is of the intellectual kind (note I'm not saying it's rocket science here, lol) where you deal with stats on resources and you try to juggle those stats to create the best end-product you can (and give reason for people to buy your product over the competition's). Also deciding whether you want to make blasters that hit harder or ones that shoot faster, as examples.
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I want a mini-game like EQ2 or Vanguard, but better. I want crafting to be a REAL alternative play choice to combat. In EQ2 I loved crafting in the morning, drinking coffee and waking up. Feeling too mellow for battle, but a little crafting game was just right.
i want a system where there are no recipes,at least not listed ones, where you can mix and match items and by trial and error you figure them out, mortal oniine has something similar to this. I did enjoy EQ2's system until they ruined it. so a mix between the 2 would be just about perfect.
But a crafting system is really a huge piece of the pie but not all of it, you also need to include the harvesting part of the craft system as they work together.
For harvesting im not sure what game i liked the best, but i think it should be manual to get the resources. or go out harvest a node or best case would be able to set up a mine that auto harvest for you similar to SWG. witht he resources constantly moving or not. I did hate having to move my harvestors once a week in SWG. I think it would of been much better to find resource set up the harvestor and as the harvestor gained EXP or your own EXP in harvesting could produce the results of what was actualy harvested and how much.
Wasnt wish suppose to have some sort of harvesting mine that worked for you when you were offline? but you had to hire npcs to do it?
That would be nice.
PS. the harvestor should be crafted first ofcoarse.
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
I'd say it depends on what the game wants. If it's full loot and open PvP you'll want more generic gear that can be pumped out fast, and a mini-game applied to that would get boring fast. If you don't have to worry about loss, or can just make a single prototype through R&D (stat customization and boosts), then i can see putting a lot of effort on a single piece - you won't have to do it over, and over.
I for one like procedural crafting, and Wurm Online hits that niche well with how it works; activate one item and use on another till built. There's gotta be better ways though, so I think a game that had a visual aesthetic of a blueprint that fills out as you add parts (and those parts determine customization aspects), then I would be happy. That itself is like a minigame, especially if the blueprints themselves are 2d and require a bit of searching the surface of it with a zoom option in order to find what it needs. Add a little intuition to the process, ya know? If it was a 3d CAD-like interface it would be even better, like you are building it piece by piece. Though I still stand by my point of only having to do it once in order to make copies.
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Where you create your items in a graphics, sound and modeling editor and upload them to the game
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First, crafting equipment has to be the best equipment in the game.
Second, it should be completely separate from "adventure" exp - as in a "level 1" player could still craft the best equipment. Crafting should be a game unto itself and honestly at this point it's not like reptition matters much to the MMO community. They deal with it every day by mindlessly leveling or raiding for equipment.
The crafting system in Mortal Online is about the best I can think of. Perhaps if you took that system, and added some sort of time-sensitive mini-game to it, it might be even better, but I think the way MO is doing it is the best system I've seen.
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Phase 1: Build the basic item.
A generic blueprint (similar to those in EVE online) lets you build an item (pistol etc). It specifies material groups as ingredients (not 3x"iron" but 3x"metal"). The materials used will then determine the basic stats and the general quality of the item (good materials = good stats). Should be easy to do.
Phase 2: Enhance the item.
Add traits to the weapon (laser pointer mount, enhanced ammo storage etc.) or enhance the stats. The outcome is determined by a mini game. The more enhancements the crafter wants the harder the game will be. Player stats, quality of crafting items and material quality may result in bonuses for the game. A palyer can choose to specialize in a crafting field ("hand guns" / "grenades") to get better bonuses, but has to sacrifice battle skills to do so.
Phase 3: Finalize the item.
Chose color and watermark. After this the item is finished and cannot be enhanced again.
Other important points:
- There should be item decay or a way to destroy items or crafting will never become an important part of the game.
- Material spawning points should move around the map and change over time (like in SWG).
- You should be able to reverse engineer an item and get a limited specific blueprint. You can then build the item a few times with slightly lower stats and no further enhancement option.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I think my ideal "crafting" mechanics really wouldn't be crafting so much as customization.
I don't want to have to gather a bunch of materials or make a bunch of items, I don't want to have to level up crafting or gathering skills. I would rather be able to find and buy parts to either assemble or customize existing weapons.
And it has to be visual, you know change the color of things etc. This goes for clothing and weapons as well as consumables.
The way you get weapons, items and parts is from stores.
Since I don't like crafting and gathering in the traditional sense I say drop them entirely. What is fun is Tycoon games. Running a shop or business is way more fun than doing the labour. So I am thinking that players could run their own little business, a general store, a blacksmith, a mine, whatever. You have to manage staff and wages and prices. You can determine how and what you do, upgrade things etc. Players could come to your little shop and buy the goods you make. You could sell your crops to another player to sell at a store etc. It is a business strategy game and you don't have to level anything to do it, just invest enough money.
And when players want to make custom items they can go to your store, pay money and have it made. Otherwise they can by the stock designs that you sell.
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I love the idea of blueprints for the items. Kind of like having a real crafting 'quest' where figuring out each blueprint becomes like a strategy game in itself, and then, like you say once figured out you can reproduce that item without doing it all over again.
Also for the aformentioned store setup, and item decay;
I also think it would be great to have at least a vendor place to call your own (like markets) where people come to buy crafted items and don't have to sit and spam tradechat looking for someone to make them something. Crafters could have likewise easy access to a "job board" where they conscipted adventurers to hunt down ingredients and such for them for a contracted cost.
Collection quests are just way more rewarding when you know the items don't just dissappear into some NPC void of pointlessness
.
And as for decay(which i think is needed to sustain economy), how about having the crafters be the repair masters. Bringing your items to crafters allows you to actually fix busted items, and repair your favorites to full durability.
I'd just love to see it where one day you will be in game, exploring in the middle of nowhere with someone and he's like, "Oh man, that troll just smashed the shit out of my helm, I'm screwed!", and you can say, "No man, I know this amazing crafter who can actually fix that, Here's his name, tell him I sent you and he'll honestly give you the best service, I've helped him alot."
So buddy finds the armorer, and the crafter uses his analyze ability on the other player (as crafters will have the best possible "inspect" for players' items within their field) And proceeds to not only fix the helm, but also recommends a great chest piece he's been working on lately. Problem is he MAY need a certain special leather to complete the blueprint that the adventurer could help with...
UO,AC1&2,EQ1&2,DAOC,SB,SWG,FFXI, Horizons,EvE,E&B,AO,WoW,VG, Lineage,GW,TR,LotR,AoC,CoH,DDO a myriad of FtP...and still looking...
I don't think Blizzard is too terrible with WoW. I really like the Lotro system.
Maybe something blending the two styles/mechanics. The only stipulation is make the item worth the gathering. So many of the high end crafting items are not worth the mats. Unfortunately I didn't get too far into the Lotro system to make an educated review of it.
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Resource collection: SWG
Crafting: VG, EQ2 (parts of SWG)
Something different: Ryzome
To this day I still can't understand why more games haven't implemented an SWGesque global collection and crafting system. I guess it's just too difficult.
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Then again it's totally retarded in the same respect. The Amount of items you need to make that armor is daunting not to mention how you have to get them. In order to level up your crafts you need 1000's of items just to get to the next level. The way to get those 1000's of items is to grab a Jackpot license , which costs money per day(3.6 million gold a day) , fill it full of boxes which could have been sold for money then it gets EVEN BETTER! You have to do this for MULTIPLE ITEMS! In the End all the cash you could have made from not buying JP license and all the boxes that could have been sold is about = to just buying the item in the first place.
Atlantica is so broken its a joke. You want awesome stuff in that game just Buy it with real cash, thats all that game cares about.
Definitely the good old SWG: dynamic resource type and position, dynamic crafting outcome, but still based on a pattern (not just random: you need good resources to craft good weapons).
Everything i've seen after that is pure crap: collect 100 of this and 50 of that and use the recipe, rinse & repeat a few times for more complex items... you'll either get a predefined item, or a predefined item with some random bonus.
It's a real shame most MMOs have crappy crafting.
I enjoyed being a "prospector" on SWG, running around the planets on my landspeeder and looking for good stuff. AFAIK there is no other game that allows such kind of "profession". Either there are pre-determined sources of resources (a la Ultima Online), or, mostly, random smallish nodes of resources (WoW & clones) or worst of all, mob loot (lineage 2)...