Everyone is entitled(hate that word) to their opinion obviously, but I'm sorry that logic does not work.
I'm referring to - If Vanguard was so amazing then more people would be playing it and it would have a thriving development schedule.
A quick example is all the great show that have been cancelled way before their time for a lack of a big audience. Did that make the show bad? Not by a long shot.
Everyone is entitled(hate that word) to their opinion obviously, but I'm sorry that logic does not work.
I'm referring to - If Vanguard was so amazing then more people would be playing it and it would have a thriving development schedule.
A quick example is all the great show that have been cancelled way before their time for a lack of a big audience. Did that make the show bad? Not by a long shot. Spew your hate somewhere else.
It works with regards to Vanguard.
For a couple of years now Vangaurd fans have been trying to pull the fleece over gamers eyes by spinning the tale of how great the game is, and all the while we have watched the population dwindle, servers get merged (with another one potentially on the way), and the future development cycle pretty much grind to a halt.
Which leaves the rest of us wondering; If Vanguard is really so great, why aren't more people playing it, and why are there always threads begging for people to play the game because the population is crap.
Call it "spewing hate" if you want, I call it being a realist about a game that is pretty much on death's door and looking to be going to the same vacation home as The Matrix Online.
Everyone is entitled(hate that word) to their opinion obviously, but I'm sorry that logic does not work.
I'm referring to - If Vanguard was so amazing then more people would be playing it and it would have a thriving development schedule.
A quick example is all the great show that have been cancelled way before their time for a lack of a big audience. Did that make the show bad? Not by a long shot. Spew your hate somewhere else.
It works with regards to Vanguard.
For a couple of years now Vangaurd fans have been trying to pull the fleece over gamers eyes by spinning the tale of how great the game is, and all the while we have watched the population dwindle, servers get merged (with another one potentially on the way), and the future development cycle pretty much grind to a halt.
Which leaves the rest of us wondering; If Vanguard is really so great, why aren't more people playing it, and why are there always threads begging for people to play the game because the population is crap.
Call it "spewing hate" if you want, I call it being a realist about a game that is pretty much on death's door and looking to be going to the same vacation home as The Matrix Online.
SOE. Their reputation, or what's left of it, further compunded by their actions and lack of actions continue to keep all but a few gamers away from their products. That company receives very little trust from the majority of the MMO gaming consumerbase.
If SOE sold Vanguard to CCP or an indie company that wanted to advance the game in the fashion it was created (as opposed to pulling an NGE and themeparking it up) I'd subscribe to it pretty quickly. SOE made it clear to me personally they didn't want me as a customer with the NGE. That's cool, their game. That stated I'm not obligated in any manner to give them money for a different project. People receive poor service from restaurants and automotive centers everyday and vow not to use those services again. MMO games are no different.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Everyone is entitled(hate that word) to their opinion obviously, but I'm sorry that logic does not work.
I'm referring to - If Vanguard was so amazing then more people would be playing it and it would have a thriving development schedule.
A quick example is all the great show that have been cancelled way before their time for a lack of a big audience. Did that make the show bad? Not by a long shot. Spew your hate somewhere else.
It works with regards to Vanguard.
For a couple of years now Vangaurd fans have been trying to pull the fleece over gamers eyes by spinning the tale of how great the game is, and all the while we have watched the population dwindle, servers get merged (with another one potentially on the way), and the future development cycle pretty much grind to a halt.
Which leaves the rest of us wondering; If Vanguard is really so great, why aren't more people playing it, and why are there always threads begging for people to play the game because the population is crap.
Call it "spewing hate" if you want, I call it being a realist about a game that is pretty much on death's door and looking to be going to the same vacation home as The Matrix Online.
SOE. Their reputation, or what's left of it, further compunded by their actions and lack of actions continue to keep all but a few gamers away from their products. That company receives very little trust from the majority of the MMO gaming consumerbase.
If SOE sold Vanguard to CCP or an indie company that wanted to advance the game in the fashion it was created (as opposed to pulling an NGE and themeparking it up) I'd subscribe to it pretty quickly. SOE made it clear to me personally they didn't want me as a customer with the NGE. That's cool, their game. That stated I'm not obligated in any manner to give them money for a different project. People receive poor service from restaurants and automotive centers everyday and vow not to use those services again. MMO games are no different.
I don't think that many people care about the company behind a game, a good game is a good game, which vanguard is not.
IMO, the best thing about it is the crafting. I might play if there were people to sell stuff to.
Ive been playing about a month and love it. Ive had no tech issues though i do have a nice system and play it on max settings aax16.
The game has the most immersive world of any that ive experienced. I play on what is probably the smallest server (Sartok ffa) and am having a blast..
Great albeit very small community. Ive yet to meet a 16 year old or see the N word used, The players ive met have lives, jobs kids etc .
Of course we all are looking for different features in an mmo but id recommend this one to anyone that enjoys fanasy . Its an adventure for sure. The day i left the Isle of Dawn i was A. kicking myself for not having had played this when it was more popular B wondering how many others would feel the same had they the oppritunity.
For anyone doing the trial, just a heads up, Isle of Dawn is pretty meh comparred to the actual game. Had i not fallen in love with Bards gameplay i may not have subbed. Im glad i did.
AoC is the sleeping giant...it's a monster of a game which deserves millions of subscribers...Unfortunately it's reputation was *deservingly* ruined and tarnished because of the problems at launch.
No thanks, I tried it. Age of Conan is instanced to death, doesn't even feel like there is a world there. Also the game feels like an adventure game, not an rpg. The dungeons are trivial AOE zergs.
There are reasons things 'are looking grim' for Vanguard. The engine, while producing some nice vistas, is slow, buggy, and demands a top-end PC to use it at full resolution. It's a good thing you were flying in the video you made; you'll never fall through the world that way, something which happens frequently in VG. [...]
You would have been right if you would have posted that 2-3 months after release.
But since then, these issues had been fixed long, long ago, so all I can say is : WTF ???
Please, if you want criticize a game, at least make sure you are any near up to date with the criticism. MMOs evolve and Vanguard in special received a lot of fixes.
AoC is the sleeping giant...it's a monster of a game which deserves millions of subscribers...Unfortunately it's reputation was *deservingly* ruined and tarnished because of the problems at launch.
AoC lost my interest 1 year before release after checking out what kind of game it would be.
I never ever since then understood why people made such a fuss out of it. This is a shooter RPG and of no interest to roleplayers.
If SOE sold Vanguard to CCP or an indie company that wanted to advance the game in the fashion it was created (as opposed to pulling an NGE and themeparking it up) I'd subscribe to it pretty quickly. SOE made it clear to me personally they didn't want me as a customer with the NGE. That's cool, their game. That stated I'm not obligated in any manner to give them money for a different project. People receive poor service from restaurants and automotive centers everyday and vow not to use those services again. MMO games are no different.
LOL, CCP is really bad with expansions, of the things they promise only 20 percent makes it in the end, then the stuff stays broken/bugged for years......
They talk a lot, but they are not doing much, while they have tons of subscribers.
Nah VG is a great game but anything with a terrible rep just isn't going to be able to get a lot of people to try it. Bush is probably an ok guy but good luck getting anyone to drink that kool aid. Same for VG, launch and the game sucked so bad for so long people aren't going to drink the kool aid unless they have friends playing or just like trying them all.
Personally loving my new DK and be joining a raid alliance this aft... fingers crossed.
Vanguard "is what it is". For those who can put aside their cynicism or critical mind and enjoy it for what it is they will find a great experience. For those who really require a polished full blown experience I would say move along.
QFT. Fully agree with this.
To the OP, I appreciate your enthusiasm but Vanguard is less of a sleeping giant and more of a hypoglycemic chimera. It has a successful fusion of several aspects of gaming into an amazing creation, and it of course offers a fantastic experience for many people of different play styles.
However, it's always going to feel a bit lethargic to anyone who prefers riding the cocaine-spazzing war-puppy of WoW or the steadily entertaining trail horse of LotRO.
Alright, enough with the creature metaphors.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2. Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
I don't think that many people care about the company behind a game, a good game is a good game, which vanguard is not.
IMO, the best thing about it is the crafting. I might play if there were people to sell stuff to.
Many and most people who care about their purchase of whatever product it may be, often do research involving where their money is going.
If a company has a solid consumer relations program, hassle-free guarantees etc. I am far more inclined to trust that company with my money, and become a recurring customer. Games are no different. Take a look at the number of gamers who have sworn off Activision-Blizzard products, for example, given the knowledge of what their money is fueling.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
How is Vanguard the sleeping giant? It still doesn't play well on most systems, classes are still bugged, yeah it looks good but that it. Just because its beautiful doesn't fix the of crap thats n the game. We saw the game at launch and thats it, Vanguard will never be resurrected. it will die and i wish it would be soon so i can stop having to read Vanguard is awesome threads. And i can stop wasting my money everytime i hear someone say they fixed something in vanguard for me to go and try it out and quit shortly there after.
Vanguard will end up fading away, but before it does i am still giving it my 15 dollars, but i do not care about the end game content or any of that mess. I am enjoying the game for what it is, a rich lore fantasy game with a class and playstyle I enjoy.
I play World of Warcraft with my wife and RL friends I know i am spending 30 dollars a month on just me but i do not care.
Vanguard will end up fading away, but before it does i am still giving it my 15 dollars, but i do not care about the end game content or any of that mess. I am enjoying the game for what it is, a rich lore fantasy game with a class and playstyle I enjoy.
I play World of Warcraft with my wife and RL friends I know i am spending 30 dollars a month on just me but i do not care.
I'm in the same boat.
I have to say that the only way Vanguard could ever become the giant it "could" be was if another agressive company was able to get hold of it and be in it for the long haul. They would have to make it "their" game in that it would receive the sole concentration of their efforts.
In effect they would have to do what ccp does with eve. Develop it with the idea that they are dedicated and have to make it work.
The problem with this is that this will never happen. Or I highly doubt it will ever happen.
Look at Ryzom.
It is finally in the hands of people who are dedicated but in effect it's being turned into an open source project. Maybe it will work but it just seems that it is an effort that is couched a bit more in ideaology than anything else. But perhaps it is enough to keep the game going?
Vanguard is a lot more polished than when it was first released. It has less issues and it has a die hard community. But when seen against other more polished games, game play aside, it still feels creaky.
Players who are expecting and require the same type of experience as LOTRO or WoW or CoH just are not going to get it. And that is the killer. You have to go into this game knowing it is your creaky old Uncle but realizing that under his squinty eye, his right hand missing two fingers and his kiss the cook apron (had to invoke the memory of my Uncle Louis ) that he is a great, funny guy with a bawdy sense of humor and a lot of depth.
Most players can't meet the game this much. And of course why should they? It is the game company's job to make the game as great as it can be. They shouldn't have to put up with "stuff". But more often than not this is the case.
But Sony is more about adding to its bottom line and looking at numbers and increasing it's station offerings over doing a CCP and saying "this is our game and we will make it work and make it successful". Or heck, even what Turbine does. One thing Jeffrey Steefel said to me (before being purchased - Turbine, not Steefel) was "we do what we have to because we are hungry". The company that has Vanguard needs to be hungry.
The only way a player is going to stick with Vanguard is if they truly are looking for what it has to offer and are deep down willing to accept it warts and all.
It's just not possible any other way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
I was there too man. It wasn't 500,000. It was around 300,000.
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
I was there too man. It wasn't 500,000. It was around 300,000.
Before making bwaahaahaa comments. Please read wha he wrote. 250-500k is not far off from your like 300k. Not quitee but, not far enough for your comment.
SIGIL went out of business due to bad management, not population or playerbase. Seriously EFFED up management. It is still a good game that no one will go near now thanks to bad word of mouth.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
I was there too man. It wasn't 500,000. It was around 300,000.
Before making bwaahaahaa comments. Please read wha he wrote. 250-500k is not far off from your like 300k. Not quitee but, not far enough for your comment.
SIGIL went out of business due to bad management, not population or playerbase. Seriously EFFED up management. It is still a good game that no one will go near now thanks to bad word of mouth.
Oh I did, but 250-500 was quite the range...had the narrow it down for him. from 250 to double was a weeeeeee bit too much heh. But I think the point still stands what happened afterwards...that summer was roughhhh..
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
I was there too at launch and you are delusional if you actually believe there was 500k subscriptions at launch.
Here is a link to a subscription number discussion from the very first month of the game being live. Brad Mcquaid is quoted as 120k subs in the first month. Go and take your lies somewhere else. Besides anyone can just google the topic and see from several sources about 200k box sales.
The playerbase did not kill Vanguard.. I was fine with 250,000-500,000 people playing..
HAHAHAHAHA, Vanguard never had anywhere close to those numbers and was already dieing right after release.
Why do you think Sigil went out of business within 5 months of the game releasing? 500k!!!! Bwhahaha... Companies with half a million subscribers don't file for bankruptcy.
Do you really believe anything you write?
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
Oh you can guarentee that there were at least 500k users in Vanguard at release? You have all the facts, because you were in Beta?
Ok Mr Beta tester, then please explain this.
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, with the game selling nearly 200,000 copies both in retail and through digital distribution channels since January of this year. [-Source-]
So how did the game have 500,000 users at launch, but the game only sold 200,000 total copies?
Do we even need to dispose of the rest of your rantings when you can't even get the core of your argument right?
Oh you can guarentee that there were at least 500k users in Vanguard at release? You have all the facts, because you were in Beta?
Ok Mr Beta tester, then please explain this.
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, with the game selling nearly 200,000 copies both in retail and through digital distribution channels since January of this year. [-Source-]
So how did the game have 500,000 users at launch, but the game only sold 200,000 total copies?
Do we even need to dispose of the rest of your rantings when you can't even get the core of your argument right?
Nice one Daffid011.
Plus, we also have this little gem straight from Brad's blog;
"Of course, looking back now with 20/20 hindsight, we were very wrong. Over 80% of the people who bought Vanguard and tried to play it quit by level 2 or 3. What could be the reason? Well, given how fast it was to level the first couple of times, what could be so horrible that people would quit so quickly? My bet is crappy framerate (due to rendering too many polygons and too many and too big textures) and bad hitching (being the result of the world being seamless and having huge art assets). We also released early and didn’t have a chance to optimize the code (but this is a subject I’ve already addressed in my blogs and not at all the only reason we had issues)."
So we are looking at 80% of the 200k initial sales quitting by level 2 or 3. Hardly the glorious experience remembered by Mr Oakthornn.
Actually Orphes, there was a time that anyone with even the smallest criticism for the game would get pounced upon by the vanguard fanboy mob. It didn't matter how valid the point being discussed was, it was always the fault of the person discussing the issue. Go back to wow almost never applied, because people were not asking for the game to be like wow. The criticisms were hardly ever that vanguard should be more like wow, but about very valid gamebreaking issues.
I assume this was before the game was released? As afterwards I feel like it was alot more voices against VG and people promoting VG got hit by the 'I hate SOE fanclub'.
Like the example above, someone talks about performance and pounce, it is their fault and they should go back to wow. How stupid is that answer? Oakthornns response is reminiscent of the people who did this game massive harm by chasing away anyone not willing to turn a blind eye to the state of the game. Even Garvons response is of the same over the top nature.
It's stupid. But it was not only people complaining about performance. The complaints was all over the place. I think that those that did not like the game as it was/is. Regardless if it is due to lack of content, bad content, boring combat or whatever it could be. And then going the length to make a fuzz about it. I do not think they would have stayed subscribing to the game in any case. Being told off with 'go back to WoW' may leave a bad taste, but the reason for leaving and destroying the game? I think they would have left anyway.
Then we had those that compared VG with another game, gameplay -wise, combat, visuals etc. Yes they should go back to the game they liked more (which they obviously did).
It would be another scenario if people that liked the game, promoted it, and got yelled at with 'go back to WoW'. But I do not recognise that they did, now 2½-3 years afterwards.
There are still way to many issues for a game that is three years old or a game that demands premium pricing. The developers have scheduled half of this years development time devoted only to fixing bugs and that tells the whole truth.
Telling people to leave has not been a winning formula in the past and it won't help now. I think we can all agree on that.
Oh I agree on it. It's really not something productive. I just don't agree, what I believe, that it makes things worse.
Comments
Everyone is entitled(hate that word) to their opinion obviously, but I'm sorry that logic does not work.
I'm referring to - If Vanguard was so amazing then more people would be playing it and it would have a thriving development schedule.
A quick example is all the great show that have been cancelled way before their time for a lack of a big audience. Did that make the show bad? Not by a long shot.
It works with regards to Vanguard.
For a couple of years now Vangaurd fans have been trying to pull the fleece over gamers eyes by spinning the tale of how great the game is, and all the while we have watched the population dwindle, servers get merged (with another one potentially on the way), and the future development cycle pretty much grind to a halt.
Which leaves the rest of us wondering; If Vanguard is really so great, why aren't more people playing it, and why are there always threads begging for people to play the game because the population is crap.
Call it "spewing hate" if you want, I call it being a realist about a game that is pretty much on death's door and looking to be going to the same vacation home as The Matrix Online.
SOE. Their reputation, or what's left of it, further compunded by their actions and lack of actions continue to keep all but a few gamers away from their products. That company receives very little trust from the majority of the MMO gaming consumerbase.
If SOE sold Vanguard to CCP or an indie company that wanted to advance the game in the fashion it was created (as opposed to pulling an NGE and themeparking it up) I'd subscribe to it pretty quickly. SOE made it clear to me personally they didn't want me as a customer with the NGE. That's cool, their game. That stated I'm not obligated in any manner to give them money for a different project. People receive poor service from restaurants and automotive centers everyday and vow not to use those services again. MMO games are no different.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I don't think that many people care about the company behind a game, a good game is a good game, which vanguard is not.
IMO, the best thing about it is the crafting. I might play if there were people to sell stuff to.
Ive been playing about a month and love it. Ive had no tech issues though i do have a nice system and play it on max settings aax16.
The game has the most immersive world of any that ive experienced. I play on what is probably the smallest server (Sartok ffa) and am having a blast..
Great albeit very small community. Ive yet to meet a 16 year old or see the N word used, The players ive met have lives, jobs kids etc .
Of course we all are looking for different features in an mmo but id recommend this one to anyone that enjoys fanasy . Its an adventure for sure. The day i left the Isle of Dawn i was A. kicking myself for not having had played this when it was more popular B wondering how many others would feel the same had they the oppritunity.
For anyone doing the trial, just a heads up, Isle of Dawn is pretty meh comparred to the actual game. Had i not fallen in love with Bards gameplay i may not have subbed. Im glad i did.
my 1st and last post
-Cory
No thanks, I tried it. Age of Conan is instanced to death, doesn't even feel like there is a world there. Also the game feels like an adventure game, not an rpg. The dungeons are trivial AOE zergs.
You would have been right if you would have posted that 2-3 months after release.
But since then, these issues had been fixed long, long ago, so all I can say is : WTF ???
Please, if you want criticize a game, at least make sure you are any near up to date with the criticism. MMOs evolve and Vanguard in special received a lot of fixes.
AoC lost my interest 1 year before release after checking out what kind of game it would be.
I never ever since then understood why people made such a fuss out of it. This is a shooter RPG and of no interest to roleplayers.
LOL, CCP is really bad with expansions, of the things they promise only 20 percent makes it in the end, then the stuff stays broken/bugged for years......
They talk a lot, but they are not doing much, while they have tons of subscribers.
Nah VG is a great game but anything with a terrible rep just isn't going to be able to get a lot of people to try it. Bush is probably an ok guy but good luck getting anyone to drink that kool aid. Same for VG, launch and the game sucked so bad for so long people aren't going to drink the kool aid unless they have friends playing or just like trying them all.
Personally loving my new DK and be joining a raid alliance this aft... fingers crossed.
QFT. Fully agree with this.
To the OP, I appreciate your enthusiasm but Vanguard is less of a sleeping giant and more of a hypoglycemic chimera. It has a successful fusion of several aspects of gaming into an amazing creation, and it of course offers a fantastic experience for many people of different play styles.
However, it's always going to feel a bit lethargic to anyone who prefers riding the cocaine-spazzing war-puppy of WoW or the steadily entertaining trail horse of LotRO.
Alright, enough with the creature metaphors.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
Many and most people who care about their purchase of whatever product it may be, often do research involving where their money is going.
If a company has a solid consumer relations program, hassle-free guarantees etc. I am far more inclined to trust that company with my money, and become a recurring customer. Games are no different. Take a look at the number of gamers who have sworn off Activision-Blizzard products, for example, given the knowledge of what their money is fueling.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
How is Vanguard the sleeping giant? It still doesn't play well on most systems, classes are still bugged, yeah it looks good but that it. Just because its beautiful doesn't fix the of crap thats n the game. We saw the game at launch and thats it, Vanguard will never be resurrected. it will die and i wish it would be soon so i can stop having to read Vanguard is awesome threads. And i can stop wasting my money everytime i hear someone say they fixed something in vanguard for me to go and try it out and quit shortly there after.
Well most of my LotRO guild is moving over to give it a try.
Vanguard will end up fading away, but before it does i am still giving it my 15 dollars, but i do not care about the end game content or any of that mess. I am enjoying the game for what it is, a rich lore fantasy game with a class and playstyle I enjoy.
I play World of Warcraft with my wife and RL friends I know i am spending 30 dollars a month on just me but i do not care.
Artorus Giltanus - Ranger EQ1 Retired
Arturien - 90 Deathknight WoW
I'm in the same boat.
I have to say that the only way Vanguard could ever become the giant it "could" be was if another agressive company was able to get hold of it and be in it for the long haul. They would have to make it "their" game in that it would receive the sole concentration of their efforts.
In effect they would have to do what ccp does with eve. Develop it with the idea that they are dedicated and have to make it work.
The problem with this is that this will never happen. Or I highly doubt it will ever happen.
Look at Ryzom.
It is finally in the hands of people who are dedicated but in effect it's being turned into an open source project. Maybe it will work but it just seems that it is an effort that is couched a bit more in ideaology than anything else. But perhaps it is enough to keep the game going?
Vanguard is a lot more polished than when it was first released. It has less issues and it has a die hard community. But when seen against other more polished games, game play aside, it still feels creaky.
Players who are expecting and require the same type of experience as LOTRO or WoW or CoH just are not going to get it. And that is the killer. You have to go into this game knowing it is your creaky old Uncle but realizing that under his squinty eye, his right hand missing two fingers and his kiss the cook apron (had to invoke the memory of my Uncle Louis
) that he is a great, funny guy with a bawdy sense of humor and a lot of depth.
Most players can't meet the game this much. And of course why should they? It is the game company's job to make the game as great as it can be. They shouldn't have to put up with "stuff". But more often than not this is the case.
But Sony is more about adding to its bottom line and looking at numbers and increasing it's station offerings over doing a CCP and saying "this is our game and we will make it work and make it successful". Or heck, even what Turbine does. One thing Jeffrey Steefel said to me (before being purchased - Turbine, not Steefel) was "we do what we have to because we are hungry". The company that has Vanguard needs to be hungry.
The only way a player is going to stick with Vanguard is if they truly are looking for what it has to offer and are deep down willing to accept it warts and all.
It's just not possible any other way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I was actually there during Beta and release, were you? Based on your ignorant comment,NO WAY, lol. Learn some facts before you decide to do a troll reply...
At release, there were at least 500,000 people playing the game,, at least and I guarantee there were at least that many people in game.. The servers were jammed packed always all the time for at least the first 3 weeks of release.. Many people left the game shortly after the first few weeks of release due to many different reasons.. Most left because of performance issues during the first 3 week phase. Most of those people were idiots from WoW who were running the game with dinosaur pew pew computers.. Others were whinny complainers who felt the game was to hard due to the death penalty and needing groups to level.. These people couldn't find groups because well,,, they are numnut, whinny, morons who sucked at playing their class while in groups...
Now, after the first 3 weeks of weeding out the stupid bad gamers and the idiots who couldn't comprehend that they would need a decent rig to run the game, subscribers did drop by around half... But during that time, the people who were left were those who actually researched the game before buying it. Most people left actually had half decent rigs, and they were good gamers who came from legendary MMO's like EQ, DAOC, and EQ2, ... Then everything was fine for a while. Yes, we knew the performance issue was a problem but had faith it would get fixed. Yes, we knew about bugged mobs warping, but we devised strategies around this.. Yes, we knew there wasn't much content past 40, so we rolled Alts to give Sigil time to fix and finish the game.. We all knew the game wasn't finished because Sigil was forced to release the game 6 months before it was ready...
Then in late March, SOE took over and basically changed the game mechanics and features. They spent months changing the game as opposed to focusing on fixing and adding content to the game.. This was when the true hardcore, loyal, faithful fans finally had enough and quit,,,,,,, myself included... That's when the game died... I'm sorry but you have no idea what your talking about.. SOE killed the game when they took over.. Anyone who had a character past level 30 aroud this time knows this for a fact.. If you or anyone else states otherwise, then you don't have a clue about what your saying....
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I was there too man. It wasn't 500,000. It was around 300,000.
Before making bwaahaahaa comments. Please read wha he wrote. 250-500k is not far off from your like 300k. Not quitee but, not far enough for your comment.
SIGIL went out of business due to bad management, not population or playerbase. Seriously EFFED up management. It is still a good game that no one will go near now thanks to bad word of mouth.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Oh I did, but 250-500 was quite the range...had the narrow it down for him. from 250 to double was a weeeeeee bit too much heh. But I think the point still stands what happened afterwards...that summer was roughhhh..
I was there too at launch and you are delusional if you actually believe there was 500k subscriptions at launch.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/118629/page/4
Here is a link to a subscription number discussion from the very first month of the game being live. Brad Mcquaid is quoted as 120k subs in the first month. Go and take your lies somewhere else. Besides anyone can just google the topic and see from several sources about 200k box sales.
Oh you can guarentee that there were at least 500k users in Vanguard at release? You have all the facts, because you were in Beta?
Ok Mr Beta tester, then please explain this.
SOE acquired the co-publishing rights to Vanguard in May of 2006, with the game selling nearly 200,000 copies both in retail and through digital distribution channels since January of this year. [-Source-]
So how did the game have 500,000 users at launch, but the game only sold 200,000 total copies?
Do we even need to dispose of the rest of your rantings when you can't even get the core of your argument right?
Nice one Daffid011.
Plus, we also have this little gem straight from Brad's blog;
"Of course, looking back now with 20/20 hindsight, we were very wrong. Over 80% of the people who bought Vanguard and tried to play it quit by level 2 or 3. What could be the reason? Well, given how fast it was to level the first couple of times, what could be so horrible that people would quit so quickly? My bet is crappy framerate (due to rendering too many polygons and too many and too big textures) and bad hitching (being the result of the world being seamless and having huge art assets). We also released early and didn’t have a chance to optimize the code (but this is a subject I’ve already addressed in my blogs and not at all the only reason we had issues)."
So we are looking at 80% of the 200k initial sales quitting by level 2 or 3. Hardly the glorious experience remembered by Mr Oakthornn.
If Vanguard is a sleeping giant, is has overdosed on too much prescription medication this puppy ain't waking up.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"