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General: My Little Pony

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  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by hogscraper

    I understand that everyone is entitled to an opinion but its just sad when people gloss over just how bad their opinion makes them look to someone on the outside looking in. To the guy above crying about the charity pet, $1,110,000 of that money went to the Make a Wish foundation. That's 1.1 million dollars going to help brighten the lives of people who need an uplifting experience the most.  If you added up every cent that you and every member of your whole family ever donated in their combined lives and threw in every penny every one of those people's friends donated in their entire lives to charity it would be closer to zero than 1.1 million. How much did you donate to Make A Wish last year bro?(and by bro I mean a myriad of words that will get me banned from this site)...

    I concede that it would have been better for them to give more of a percentage of the proceeds away but when the total is more money than some people make in a lifetime, complaints against them sound like anger just looking for an outlet. 

    I think few of us are making a billion dollars a year. I know I would be doing a lot for charity if I was.

    One's generosity is measured as a percentage of what one has.

    Blizzard only donated that money for a few months. They still sell the pet.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by Rampage9799

    OMG CHILL OUT Justin!  This streed doesnt do anything better than you can aquire with ingame gold.

    Wrong. What other mount binds to your account and scales up with your riding skill?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Were there at least a way to acquire the mount through gameplay for those who want one but don't have the extra cash to buy it... fine. But then the $25 price-tag might not be so "reasonable" to as many people, would it?  They could simply earn it in game... and that just wouldn't be as profitable for Blizzard.

    That is exactly right. You can't earn it ingame, because then fewer people would buy it.

    The 'convenience for casual players' argument is bogus.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Rampage9799

    OMG CHILL OUT Justin!  This streed doesnt do anything better than you can aquire with ingame gold.

    Wrong. What other mount binds to your account and scales up with your riding skill?

    Chances are, most future mounts, CS-bought or not. Then watch people bitch that the 25$ was wasted, then again, you'd probably be right behind them bitching as well anyway.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • ThrawlThrawl Carrollton, TXPosts: 271Member

    Damn I didn't know how much this stupid thing actually costs. 25 bucks for a vanity item?

    I truly would have thought that the backlash of such an experiment would bring the giant to it's knees. Instead it seams to have only made it grow bigger. I guess if your a die hard fan it would be worth it. But for someone like me who never got into WoW, it's just another reason to stay away.

    Our spirit was here long before you

    Long before us

    And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,757Member Uncommon

    RMT will not fail due to player backlash unless you talk to other players and organise a backlash in your MMO. Get those threads started on the forums, talk to your guildies, there is no other way this will stop.

    Do a thread where players pledge not to buy this item in the cash shop and so on, this will not go away due to wishful thinking.

  • melmoth1melmoth1 EdinburghPosts: 762Member

    Unfortunately, I think RMT item stores in mmorpgs are here to stay. I used to be neutral on them, but they tended to be relatively rare in P2P mmorpgs so I felt it was no big deal. I've changed my mind.

    Now it seems they are becoming more widespread and I am sure it will only be a matter of a few years when they are a huge and permanent feature of all mmorpgs and which account for a massive, maybe even the largest, chunk of a mmorpgs revenue. For me what is worrying about the creeping RMT options in WOW is that WOW is seen, by mmorpg developers and investors, as the standard of good (i.e. successful)  business practice.

    I think mmorpgs can be addictive. I think you can get lost in mmorpgs in the same way you get lost in movies and books and comics, but mmorpgs hold onto your time and identity more tightly. I think people care a lot about the look of their virtual characters, about their vanity pets, and their mounts often just as much as the stuff that has stats attached and as such they may be a lot less "fluff" than people claim. I think big mmorpgs have slick advertising and dedicated marketing departments who are specialists par excellence in manipulating consumer demand. All of this make RMT items in mmorpgs a ridiculously astute, and horribly exploitative, method of increasing profits. Add to this the fact that children play these games (something that not enough people are mentioning btw) and we are beginning to have a toxic mix.

    Yah, your "free" to choose to buy or not to buy. The tobacco industry makes the same claims and although I ain't saying that buying vanity pets and tobacco are the same, I am drawing attention to the fact that the existence of free will does not suddenly excuse questionable business practices, however lawful, or diminish the opinions of those who are critical of the business ethics of such practices.

    P2P mmorpgs are aleady ridiculous time-sinks, make them persistent item store money sinks too and I am thinking more and more of boycotting any P2P mmorpg that has such features. Not because I think it will change anything (because it won't), and not because I lack the self-control to resist the "BUY NOW" button, but because it makes me feel 'dirty' to do business with such an overt bunch of moneygrubbing bastards.

     

    Regards

     

    Melmoth

    ed for typo

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Catskill, NYPosts: 5,564Member

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Dosska

    So now I am seriously considering canceling my account, maybe going to LOTRO instead.  With the exception of a couple of short breaks I've been a  WoW subscriber since launch. But I'm really uncomfortable with the direction it seems to be taking. And i just bought the authenticator for $6.50 too. Oh well, at least I didn't spend 25$ on a celestial steed.

    Don't get me started on that authenticator.

    The idea that we should pay Blizzard more money to make our accounts secure is offensive and ridiculous.

    They do offer account protection: It's called a username and password. It's called encryption on any page with sensitive information (account info, etc), they offer pages and pages of info on how to protect your system, choosing a good password, protecting your info, etc... They take every reasonable measure to help inform and protect their players.

    They can't, however, force their players to pay attention to all that.

    Frankly, they don't have to offer a security token all. Blizzard are not responsible for the fact that a number of people aren't more careful with their account information, go to suspect websites and/or download add-ons or what-not that have embedded key loggers, etc. They can't stop players from giving out their login info to "friends", or power leveling services with the assumption nothing bad will come of it. They can't go to every individual's house, check their computers for infected software, and put blocks on infected websites. They can, and do, warn against it, but ultimately those are things that are out of Blizzard's control.

    To be fair, it *can* happen, as an exception, that someone goes to an infected site believing it to be safe; it's happened to major sites for at least a few MMOs I'm aware of. But that is not the rule... It's the exception. 9/10 cases I've seen where people's accounts were hacked has been from their own carelessness. If you use a reasonable amount of common-sense and caution with your login info and other sensitive data, then you have very little to worry about.

    So, yes, they offer a security token as an optional security measure; an extra level of protection that benefits the player who might otherwise get their account hacked.

    The way I see it... $6.50 to protect potentially hundreds or thousands of hours worth of gameplay, and potentially years worth of sub fees (and box purchases) is a damn good bargain. I have never had problems with my accts being hacked, because I am reasonably cautious with my info. However, on the off chance that I just *might* happen to pick up a keylogger somewhere, I think it's a no-brainer. I have one for WoW and for FFXI.

    In a nutshell, though... Blizzard is not responsible for protecting players' from their own carelessness. They require a login and password to access your account. They can't go all "Big Brother" and start watch-dogging every player to make sure their login and/or account information isn't getting into the wrong hands, because then that would lead to forums discussing a whole other kind of problem, the whole "Blizzard scans your HD! They are teh Satan!" type deal.

    In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member

    I quit long ago when they announced an item shop. I pay a sub fee that should include the whole game.

  • Toquio3Toquio3 LisbonPosts: 1,074Member

    I love the little pony with the skeletor outfit. Now thats a mount worth 25 bucks! =P

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

    So, I guess you have no theft or fraudulent charge protection on your credit/debit cards?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • MehveMehve Kitchener, ONPosts: 487Member

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

    So, I guess you have no theft or fraudulent charge protection on your credit/debit cards?

    Of course we do - because while a lot of credit card fraud happens because the card owner is stupid/careless, there's also a lot of ways fraud can happen even if you don't get suckered in that way, and the stakes can be far higher than just an MMO account.

    A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
    That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon

    Is Blizzard conditioning it's customers? I think so.What it really shows is that many if not most WoW gamers aren't like gamers used to be, or at least used to think they were like. Watch for the next wave of games that crash and burn because they try to do what Blizzard does.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  •  

    The manipulation going on here is seriously creepy. All mmos manipulate us to a certain extent and profit by tapping into that desire to acheive in a game because it makes us feel good about ourselves, but this takes things to a new scale. It is simply embarrassing to see how many players went for this horse.

     

    To be honest, it is hard to blame Blizzard. It is like putting a plate of sausages in front of your dog and then expecting him not to touch them. Moral of the story... don't be a sausage. :)

  • pojungpojung Central, FLPosts: 810Member

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    They do offer account protection: It's called a username and password. It's called encryption on any page with sensitive information (account info, etc), they offer pages and pages of info on how to protect your system, choosing a good password, protecting your info, etc... They take every reasonable measure to help inform and protect their players.

    They can't, however, force their players to pay attention to all that.

    Frankly, they don't have to offer a security token all. Blizzard are not responsible for the fact that a number of people aren't more careful with their account information, go to suspect websites and/or download add-ons or what-not that have embedded key loggers, etc. They can't stop players from giving out their login info to "friends", or power leveling services with the assumption nothing bad will come of it. They can't go to every individual's house, check their computers for infected software, and put blocks on infected websites. They can, and do, warn against it, but ultimately those are things that are out of Blizzard's control.

    To be fair, it *can* happen, as an exception, that someone goes to an infected site believing it to be safe; it's happened to major sites for at least a few MMOs I'm aware of. But that is not the rule... It's the exception. 9/10 cases I've seen where people's accounts were hacked has been from their own carelessness. If you use a reasonable amount of common-sense and caution with your login info and other sensitive data, then you have very little to worry about.

    So, yes, they offer a security token as an optional security measure; an extra level of protection that benefits the player who might otherwise get their account hacked.

    The way I see it... $6.50 to protect potentially hundreds or thousands of hours worth of gameplay, and potentially years worth of sub fees (and box purchases) is a damn good bargain. I have never had problems with my accts being hacked, because I am reasonably cautious with my info. However, on the off chance that I just *might* happen to pick up a keylogger somewhere, I think it's a no-brainer. I have one for WoW and for FFXI.

    In a nutshell, though... Blizzard is not responsible for protecting players' from their own carelessness. They require a login and password to access your account. They can't go all "Big Brother" and start watch-dogging every player to make sure their login and/or account information isn't getting into the wrong hands, because then that would lead to forums discussing a whole other kind of problem, the whole "Blizzard scans your HD! They are teh Satan!" type deal.

    In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

    And this is where it breaks apart. Valid statistics, not ones pulled from the fourth point of contact? Exception rather than rule?

     

    I got a malware alert from opening a *.pdf straight from a university professor through the school email system. It's called a 'virus' for a reason.

    I can work out everyday, I can take my vitamins, eat healthy etc. But if I cross the street on my way about my usual business and some chump crosses my path with the flu... guess what... there's a fairly good chance I'll be under the weather a couple days later.

    So no, this entire post is completely full of it. Mistakes happen, period. Don't put the blame on the user because of situations *you* have seen (which, by the wording, is quite questionable). Just because you run a tight ship and haven't fallen overboard doesn't mean others aren't doing the same but haven't been as fortunate. Get off the high horse. Acknowledge that it's a service being run for financial gain when it could/should very well be a service installed as an industry standard because of a solid understanding of what goes on in the internet, and just how commonplace it is.

    Hell, *Blizzard themselves* have had high suspectability of having been hacked. Feel free to read through clippings of people who's accounts had been compromised after being inactive for *years*. Of course, Blizzard, the masters of good PR, never outwardly say anything about such things...

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • VotanVotan Meriden, CTPosts: 291Member Uncommon

    For the first time since launch they do not have sub growth and have started a trend downward.   This is a way to plug that gap and continue revenue growth it really is that simple.  A lot more of this to come.  Revenue growth for a publically traded company is king and rules every choice they make and will. 

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    Yay more horrible Yellow Journalism from MMORPG.com

    Now with even more flawed Slippery Slope Arguments.

    What I love is that every one is either using the Slippery Slope argument or the "I pay a monthly fee so it should be accessable in game" argument.

    So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

    Its good thing for Justin Webb that you dont need little things like facts or objectivity when you preach to the choir.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

    It sounds like an epic reward for an epic accomplishment. Kiling Arthas is the top goal in the game.

     

    Does it bind to account? Does it scale with riding skill?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • Redline65Redline65 Cypress, TXPosts: 486Member

    I've never played WoW, but if I did I don't think I'd care about this. It's nothing game-changing, right? It's not going to make someone uber in PvE or PvP, is it? I say grats to Blizzard for finding ways to generate more revenue to support further development of their game. And for maximizing shareholder wealth. image

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by Redline65

    I've never played WoW, but if I did I don't think I'd care about this. It's nothing game-changing, right? It's not going to make someone uber in PvE or PvP, is it? I say grats to Blizzard for finding ways to generate more revenue to support further development of their game. And for maximizing shareholder wealth. image

    Why not send them a check, if maximizing wealth is so admirable to you?

    They maximize that wealth by taking in more money while providing less service to their customers. Gamers. Us.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,979Member Uncommon

    I'm always surprised at what people are willing to pay for, but this 25.00 mount topped most of them.

    I mean, if it did impart some sort of in game benefit I might have understood the rush for it, but as simply a cosmentic change that anyone with 25 bucks can buy I can't imagine why people would purchase such a thing.

    I'm just too far out of the mainstream it seems to grasp it all.

    But I agree, this was just another step to turning WOW (and many other games) to a hybrid payment model where we'll pay a monthly fee for 'basic' service and extra fees for additional functionality. (much like cable TV I suppose)

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • choujiofkonochoujiofkono no, OHPosts: 852Member

    image

    "I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
    "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
    image

  • DrachasorDrachasor Columbus, OHPosts: 2,678Member

    Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

    It sounds like an epic reward for an epic accomplishment. Kiling Arthas is the top goal in the game.

     

    Does it bind to account? Does it scale with riding skill?

    It scales with riding skill (though I am not 100% sure), but I don't think that's a crime.  You should be able to show off past achievements a year after the fact and not move slower because of it.

    Anyhow, Xiaoki also said Mr. Webb said it took 1 hour to reskin, when he actually said it took a few (difference of a few hundred percent).  Even if it took someone 20 or 40 hours to reskin, that's very little work for the price tag.

    I thought the comparison with Bioware was fairly apt.  They have 7 buck items that are whole adventures.  That feels a lot more sensible to me (though if they do the same with ToR I'd expect free content and a bit cheaper price as well unless there's no sub fee).

    Like I've said before elsewhere, I think Blizzard gets a bit of a free pass here from its customers because in a very real way it's the only game in town.  The other AAA MMOs in the last few years have largely failed.  Once some real competition apppears (hopefully in the form of Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, Final Fantasy XIV, and a couple others), then RMT in the big games will have larger implications on whether people keep playing them or not (helps that GW2 provides a sub-free alternative as well).

    Anyhow, overall I thought Mr. Webb had some very good points.  Maybe Blizzard won't ever sell a class online, but they'll keep adding stuff to the store.  Sooner or later they'll add items that can be used but aren't necessarily "better" than what you can get in the game, I think.  Well, that would happen if no competition appeared I think.  Given how the market is going to change in the next couple years (assuming all new MMOs aren't made of fail), I think Blizzard will start acting more sensibly.

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    I'm always surprised at what people are willing to pay for, but this 25.00 mount topped most of them.

    I mean, if it did impart some sort of in game benefit

    It does.

    I might have understood the rush for it, but as simply a cosmentic change

    Not true.

    that anyone with 25 bucks can buy I can't imagine why people would purchase such a thing.

    Because it does give an advantage.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • GikkuGikku Oak Ridge, TNPosts: 208Member

    Originally posted by viddster

    I am pretty sure Blizzard will keep to a subscription model for their new MMO, that solid monthly income is too big to skip. Plus the RMT products will sell differently depending on time of year, response from the customers and the product itself.

     

    What I think Blizzard will do is keep a low monthly sub, say $9 a month while others move closer to $15, so it seems cheap to play their game compared to other titles. You can be sure it will be released with a cash shop as well though, this experiment has proved they can do it, and get away with it.

     

    Only time will tell what will be in the cash shop, but you can expect alot of fluff and maybe xp pots, extra bank slots or bags that kind of thing.

    Maybe they will and this is certainly a possiblilty if they keep putting items, mounts, pets, etc that subscribers will buy. Honestly if we had the money we(my hubby, our son, and myself) would have the "pretty" pony. Currently it will just have to wait.

    On the other hand it is also possible they are looking at a F2P. I  mean after all how long now has it been since D3 has been in the works? It was supposed to be more along the lines of WoW as far as open world and the like. So maybe that is what is in store for it. Time will tell.

    It is true they are definately looking at the market and what the gamers will and won't do. This pony is not hard to get but the 2 seater flying mount is. I mean you have to invite a friend who has to stay with WoW for X time before you can qualify for it. That means if you open a new account  to get this useful mount then you have to keep it for a  time anyway. But it is not account bound it is only going to be one of your characters. So this mount is more special. Might be a bit more costly to get but I am sure there will be some that will do this. Not as many as the pony but have already seen one on our server.

    Gikku

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