Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The newbie and the raft.
I saw his add on the trade forums "can someone make me a raft please", since I thought I could help him, I responded with a personal message, and asked him to bring all the mats needed to do the raft, he was so excited to have the possibility to own one.
Some minutes ago I saw him coming, he had the newbie protection over his head so I now understood why he was so excited: he would not have to wait till level 75 woodcutting to make one (as I had to wait).
I interrupted my crafting to take his mats, he opened a trade window and put the mats on it, and pressed "accept", I took the mats and went to the craft station, lacked some cloth. I communicated the matter to him and he went to the vendor but did not have enough money, very sad he told me he could not do the raft because of the cloth.
I told him "is there anything I can buy from you?" we went to bank and he looked for some things I was not really interested, then he told me he have some resin, I bought it from him since reagents are always necessary.
Now with money he bought the cloth and with the mats ready I could make the raft, I opened a trade window and gave him his so wanted raft. He was so excited and said "now to sail the seven seas". I gave him some advices and we say farewell.
What we have here, a new player, excited and enjoying the game, a human being behind the keyboard, perhaps a teenager, someone who invested time of his life gathering the mats to make a raft. He trusted me, why did he do? ignorance? lack of experience? he trusted me and I did not defraud him. Why should I defraud him, I am a blue, I am an ally, no reasons to not to trust me. But what if I had taken his mats and then laugh on his face and humilliate him saying hard things. Oh sure perhaps he could have posted an add on the chats saying that I took his mats and asking the community not to trust me, and later he probably would start receiving messages of people ridiculizing him and humillianting him for his mistake.
I am not telling this to you to think "oh this guy is so honest", I write this because every action that degrades people on this game is justified for the phrase "it is just a game". Yes it is just a game but behind the keyboard there are human beings and some people treat those human beings as if they were garbage.
Lately some one said to me in a public forum (without any provocation) "no one besides your mom gives anything for your existence, and even that is questionable" and that person claimed to have two degrees.
I learned to play the ways of darkfall I fell and got up I lost my things and worked hard to recover them, I never ever complaint for a fair gank, that is the game. However in those chats I have read insults so grotesque that made me sick, touching mothers, wives and definitely you can find the lowest minds on this game.
I want to state that the reason why I will leave the game is not anything in the gameplay but the people who plays on it. I can testify that Darkfall online has one of the rudest communities I have ever seen in a mmo game.
Comments
ok first off, in the early days of the game it took a whole clan of ours about a month to get the skill and matts to make our first clan raft so lets get some perspective on some guy still under 24 hours protection not being able to have a raft for F sake.
second off, this is a war game. liying, cheating and defrauding people is paramount to war success.
that said, I do agree that the over all community has more that are rude, selfish and immature but not for the reasons you just gave, that was actually tactical.
I think this game will be far to brutal for you.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But why do games with pvp focus have to be so elitist? Wouldn't the elitist profit from having a certain number of "nice people" (don't want to go so far to say carebears) to get an even bigger community?
Doesn't mean it will turn into WoW.
I like DF in a way, I have met quite some nice and helpful people so far, but also the the stuck up ones who like to gank and talk such b.s. on chat that warcraft barren chats feels like a nobel prize lecure. Sure, war, bla bla bla, but where the heck is the point of ganking a low-skill player and then even looting the few - for an advanced player - worthless items? That is just immature. But if that is how the DF community wants to have it .... *shrugs*
Elitism doesnt have anything to do with liying, defrauding and deciption but that is a different subject.
What I am about to say is more in line with an Elisit attitude.
If you would read The Art of War you would undersatnd that having a war game where there is no liying and deciption is a bit retarded.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Its about as retarded as having a war game without death or social consequence --- which is exactly what Darkfall provides.
Its like playing NES Contra with 99 lives. Unless youre a real noob you will finish. But without that game over screen the risk is minimal, and the reward just isnt the same.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
As much of a "war game" as this is supposed to be, its disproportionate in the sense that its still based on leveling your skills to be able to compete with others. Lying, defrauding, and deception in an FFA game is completely different then a war game such as and FPS or the like, where there are specific sides. In Darkfall you can be an asshole just to be one. The OP could have taken the new players materials, and there probably wouldn't be much the new player could do about it. Chances are any new player wouldn't be able to contend with someone who's played the game extensively, not for lack of player skills, but lack of skill levels. Complaining would just get him ridiculed.
All this does is weed out the "nice" players to make room for the wider, antagonistic, PvP centric, vocal majority. Its not about lying, or deception for the sake of purpose, but because it gives someone an upper hand over someone else... even if that someone they are hurting is or could be a potential ally.
I perosnally feel better about this community than that of WoW which was one of the most loot whorish, selfish, scamming at every oportunity within the gmaes mechaincs.
In DFO people actually care and help those who are not as well off as them. Hell most fo the ppeople I play with/around will help out any newb they see. One of our alliance members killed a guy outside our city, found out he was new to the game and gave him better gear than what he was wearing. Most of the guys in my guild give almost non-stop to our newbs to keep them geared and movng along.
DFO definitely has one of the better communities I have seen. Most of them will kill you, but most are not douchebags about it.
Edit: I hate text windows without spell checkers.
This is not a war game in the sense of an FPS game at least in the context that I meant the statement. I was refering to war stradegies, not tactical combat stradgies although clearly effective tactical combat also involves deciption.
Do I believe there should be a balance between play and reality? of course, the idea of crouching in water for 48 hours in order to hold a position doesnt exactly sound like fun to me although it is real. With that said, removing deciption from a war game or even a pvp game removes an extreemly large part of effective stradgey not to mention removing a sense of realism that is called "fictional realism" at least this is my point of view.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I feel your pain, really I do.
This is mostly the reason why I will not play another FFA game in the future, because it seems to attract the "lowest" minds, as you put it. Granted, there a ton of people willing to help you in the game, but I just don't like the fact that whenever I sit down, I have to always do a double-take with someone I'm grouped with, or always be on the lookout for that red who will wipe the floor with me. Don't get my wrong, I enjoyed my time, but when you have a petition going on to legalize afk macroing because of the stat grind, then there are definitely problems.
Not bashing the game, like I said, I had a lot of fun, but those bad apples got to me after a while. So far, I've been in Fallen Earth, and surprise surprise, I haven't encountered any type of "low" minds in this game for the first two days. My first two days in Darkfall (on a rerolled character), consisted of being ganked multiple times, and even griefed by other SGs. I couldn't handle that, simply because I work all day, and I come home to play a video game, not experience real-life over again and deal with people who have nothing better to do than sit in front of a computer screen for 12+ hours a day. No offense to you guys who actually play this game for fun, and have lives and responsibilities, but in my honest opinion, this game is definitely geared towards the "hardcore" pvpers.
Will be updated later.
Let me tell you about my experiences from my first day. First, let me say that I bought the game in January, but couldn't play then due to computer issues, so I don't have any newbie protection.
I got killed 3 times by some goblins (those mobs can be pretty cunning) and only once by a player. That player, when he noticed that I was a newbie, apologized and, instead of looting me, watched over my loot until I came back. He then gave me some equipment and some gold and contacted his guild for me so that I wouldn't have to play as a single player.
Does that mean everyone will be so nice? I will treat everyone I see with a healthy dose of paranoia, but I not everyone in DarkFall is a scumbag.
And, wargame...? =.= This is a game. It's not like anyone can cut open your stomachs, eat you alive or steal your firstborn. If you get killed or tricked, you will lose your loot. You have to be ready to lose anything you don't have in your bank at any moment, but is that really so bad? I only have with me what I can risk to lose and if I lose it, then I will simply work hard to get it back. And those who lie and such will win...? I don't know about you, but I am playing to have fun. If I have fun, I take that as a personal gain/win.
Good post OP, but please stay in the game. But I must say that so far I have mostly good experinces of the community on EU1. You are right, the die hard pvp:ers and hardcore players do benefit from naive players like the one you met and other sheep like myself. Being decent towards new players will give you more players to kill further on.
Experiences will vary per person. I played in beta an EU launch, and the community tanked big time for me on launch. The game had a ton of rude elitist people who would camp the lowbie areas killing anyone who walked out not under protection who had no chance at fighting back. Then came the insults. I used to enjoy open pvp games, but the crowds they attract have gotten worse and worse every release. It apparently makes you a man to run around and beat up children in the sense of gear and skill in this game, and then ridicule them until they log over how uber you are.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Being a war, whether a trade war, combat war, or some other variation of the theme doesn't really excuse deception or generally bad ethics. I mean, in the OP's story, which was a nice read btw, the player was blue, so as he said; why would he be motivated to deceive. Getting away from the OP, suppose it was a random general chat individual. Surely, and as happens in many other games, that person, bearing no relation to the issue, would not miss the opportunity to insult or otherwise attempt to demean the new player. That has no relation to war and, quite to the contrary, could discourage a future soldier for that person's clan.
Really, it is an unnecessary side effect of online gaming coupled with being able to hide behind an avatar. But, to reiterate, it exists in every game to one degree or another. Perhaps it is just a matter of how visible it is more so then the fact it exists. At any rate, aside from the part about leaving the game, it was a nice story. Got me curious what ever happened to that new player and his raft.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Assholes are always assholes. It doesn't matter in game or in real life. If they aren't assholes in rl, it's because they fear consequences.
"Yes it is just a game but behind the keyboard there are human beings and some people treat those human beings as if they were garbage."
This sentence from the OP's post is something I've often thought. Players in DF seem to think that because it's a harsh PVP game they can treat other players like crap - and the excuses for these in-game acts are usually lame like: I got screwed once in-game so F**k everyone in-game now or "It's a hardcore PVP game - get used to it or go back to Wow.
Well - I'm no care bear but the way I've been treated by players in the game sometimes is nothing short of inhumane and is certainly a reflection of the person-behind-the-keyboard's character.
Fortunately, most of the players in Darkfall are really cool and make up for the asshats, but this has to have an impact on many new players coming to DF.
Perhaps these abusive players were mistreated early on in the game and feel it's their payback for their abuses, but keep in mind that you may stunt the growth of Darkfall with your acts. It's PVP - kill players - don't kill their spirit.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
I think you missed the OP's point: This isn't about loot - it's about the mistreatment of other players.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Its not the community as much as it is the type of game in question.
What type of player says to themselves 'what game out there can I play that will allow me to kill other players and take their stuff'.
I am not trying to bash the players of DF or DF becuase I actually like the game but I am just saying when you come into the game you have to consider the attraction of the player base. Of course there will be many pr1cks
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Man you aren't right. There are much more assholes in games where people can be assholes unpunished. The best example is... yeah, that game we all know about...
The OP make no sense at all for me. A noob wanted a raft so i made one for him, that makes a horrible community?
As in every MMO there is idiotes and less idotic players. Nothing weird about that.
Well, as with any game - if one likes it, it's just to ignore the idiots. And maybe hope it will balance itself out.
As I recall (though, admittedly, it has been about a decade since I last read The Art of War - it was required reading in the last military unit I was assigned to), Master Sun wrote rather extensively on the strategies of how to defeat one's enemies, not one's allies. Reading what the OP wrote, he was discussing how he treated an ally (or at least a potential ally or an ally of the moment).
In all ancient war treatises, it is generally considered wise to keep one's ally of the moment happy, lest they turn on you and you find yourself fighting a war on several fronts. This type of war, as history has shown us repeatedly (and as Master Sun himself pointed out), is generally inadvisable because it is not generally a winnable war. Ask Hitler. Better yet, if you prefer a more recent example, ask former President Bush.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
First, I would like to congratulate on your honesty.
Second, to answer all other people discussing MMORPG ethics - yes, assholes exist in all games: DF, WoW, Eve, etc etc. but, only FFA PvP games seem to have generated insane amounts of extreme... "assholeness" if you will. Why? Simple, in FFA PvP games you CAN be an asshole. In other games not so much. In WoW, on a PvE server, what can you do? You can cuss in Trade chan - you get muted. You can ninja an item in a dungeon raid, you get warned, if you ninja another item - you get kicked from the raid. There is realy not that many ways to be an asshole and negatively influece other people. In FFA PvP games you can do many many things to ruin someone else's experiences. Thats why "nice guys" tend to avoid those kind of games. And for the same reasons asshole are drawn towards those kind of games - they can be in the game who they are in real life. And if someone says "Well I dont do those bad things in real life that I do in DF" - because you have enough brains to realize that real life has CONSEQUENCES, while being an asshole in DF does not.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
well done OP
Unfortunately 90% of DF players are not like you. i was super excited when i managed to make my 1st horse i could have hugged a stranger, only to have it stollen because i dismounted inside a town. the next day i had the chance to steal a horse from a nube that, like me the previous day, didnt know better. i mounted but i just didn't have the heart to run away with it and ended up just giving it back. there is the odd guy that messages you afer they ganked you with " i left your armor/weappons" but this is far from the norm. unfortunately a full loot mmo tends to cater to the worst of mmo pvp comunity which in most games are referred to as gankers and greefers. i'm not QQing, it's what i expected from DF but this is why the comunity is small and continues to stay small. too many people are just not willing to put up with that.
yeah I'm too soft aswell I know half people in my clan are same. lol I actually have a good example fraps
My blog:
Agreed. Find a crowd (aka clan) you enjoy being around and stick with them. Theres aholes in every MMO, theres no way around it...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
LOL consensus. That is THE best sig I've ever seen!
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.