So help me <insert diety>. If the NWN MMORPG bombs, I will cry a river of tears and drown in it.
Neverwinter Nights was one of the BEST RPGs ever made. In fact, I've played it at least 6 times from start to finish. The community is just amazing, the game is just amazing, everything about it is amazing!
Some things should never be MMORPGs. NWN is one of them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Given the lessons learned from the NGE, is it reasonable to expect a new dir to turn things around for a game post-launch? I mean now that the game is live, there is only so much change you can bring before you reach tipping point of driving everyone away.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I have to wonder if Cryptic truly grasps how much many gamers literally hate paying a subscription, but not getting the full game for their money. If they start listening to that feedback, I wonder if they'd get more subscribers. This game has had issues with bugs, lack of content and the cash shop. That's a pretty damn shaky start imo. Some games simply don't recover from that. I hope this one does, but Cryptic really needs to get rid of the subscription plus RMT money pit model.
I don't see any chance of the cash shop going away completely, so the best we can hope for is that they will not extort the players too badly with the RMTs. So far this has been the case, at least in CO the store has not escalated beyond the initial offering, the only additions are costume pieces. Of course, some players are rightfully impatient in between updates when the C store is getting new costume sets, but they have regularly added free pieces with all the big updates, like this latest expansion with ~90 new pieces included with the base subscription.
I think they are just waiting until more of the market eventually catches up to the sub + RMT model. As this model grows in popularity, the big issue will not be whether a game has RMTs but the extent to which the company extorts the players (for example, XP potions are worse than costume pieces, IMO, since they are gameplay-effecting).
So help me <insert diety>. If the NWN MMORPG bombs, I will cry a river of tears and drown in it.
Neverwinter Nights was one of the BEST RPGs ever made. In fact, I've played it at least 6 times from start to finish. The community is just amazing, the game is just amazing, everything about it is amazing!
Some things should never be MMORPGs. NWN is one of them.
It already was, my friend. But I see where you're coming from.
Although, never fear. There's still a lawsuit out there which could strip Cryptic/Atari of their rights to create anything involving D&D, which I hope Turbine wins.
To this day why would anyone hire someone who was in charge of one of the biggest failure in modern western mmo history. When the name of your company becomes a verb for fail. Maybe you should not hire the guy responsible. When I see his picture I want to run far far away. Looks like Cryptic may get flagshipped. If they keep this up. CO and STO will not live to see 2011. Maybe Atari will just dump them in a fire sale. So much potential. So little results.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
If they are about to start work on a NWN MMO, I just hope they realise that such a game will not work with the cell shading look of graphics (ie. CO). I don't think when anyone thinks about NWN they have cell shade type of graphics in mind.
(1) I play CO with the black comic outlines turned off. The game is not really cell-shaded, it just has these black outlines (they are exactly like the black outlines in the emulator ZSNES, 2xSai, SuperEagle, etc).
(2) Check out some screenshots of STO. Even though I didn't care for that game, as a ST fan I do quite enjoy the art designs of the ships and costumes in that game. Also, the environmental art in the latest CO expansion is a pretty nice rendition of a New Orleans type city at night, so the artists are versatile.
Honestly, I think the graphics are one of the key things they will get right with these projects.
To this day why would anyone hire someone who was in charge of one of the biggest failure in modern western mmo history. When the name of your company becomes a verb for fail. Maybe you should not hire the guy responsible. When I see his picture I want to run far far away. Looks like Cryptic may get flagshipped. If they keep this up. CO and STO will not live to see 2011. Maybe Atari will just dump them in a fire sale. So much potential. So little results.
I agree, 100%. Hellgate: London failed specifically because of him and his idiotic policies. I honestly don't understand how he's gained meaningful employment after that.
Hell, nobody blames the team behind the game. Runic Games is mostly made up of those folks, and they churned out one of the most lauded and beloved releases of 2009.
But hell, Dave Allen convinced MMO gamers to give him another chance ( Alganon) after the Horizons debacle, so I guess anything's possible.
Originally posted by describable STO can't maintain it though, takes less than 2 weeks at 4 hours a day to get to rear admiral on federation (and that's a lot of grinding... as the actual number of proper quests for an "MMO" is laughable). The fact Klingons are half done and they're still talking about new factions (via the C-store) doesn't fill me with much promise. I agree. The saving grace for CO's lack of content is the fun of making alts, we have this classless open build system, and together with the costume creator it allows more creativity and fun for making alts than any other MMO I have tried. I have 22 alts, and 2 capped characters. But in STO, they put back the simple 3-class system, and since the ship class matters more than the captain's class, I see little reason to make more than one character per faction in that game, and as you say it has about 1.2 factions right now. They either need to add incentives for alt-making (unlikely, given the way ships and bridge officers work), or remove the skill cap to allow a longer progression for that main character (ideal). Cryptic should never have tried 2 MMO's at once... it was idiotic, in every sense. They still haven't figured out that most gamers play 2 MMO's nowadays... and a double sub package may actually help CO before it dies a death. CO WILL die it's at a price Auto Assault was at retail before that went to the land of dead mmo's... hell i saw more content in Tabula Rasa than both CO and STO put together :-p and that failed. (well shut down.. i miss TR still popular in europe and it was beginning to work) Cryptic can't possibly work on a 3rd MMO can they... it would defy madness...even the big guns Activision, EA wouldn't be that crazy... Then madness will be defied!
The reason that big names in the VG business can recover from flops is the same reason that it happens in the movie business: from the publisher's point of view most all games/movies are flops, and they live for the big hits, so they conclude it is worth risking lots of money on someone who produced a hit in the past.
It should be no surprise that Bill Roper joined Cryptic after the Atari acquisition.
Interviewer: So what have you been doing for the last 5 years Mr. Roper
Roper: I was CEO of flagship studios (while he eats all the M&M's off of the interviewers desk)
Interviewer: Isn't that the company that created the absolute failure Hellgate London
Roper: Yes
Interviewer: .........
Roper: ........... (Roper lets out a slow high pitched fart in the silence)
Interviewer: Welcome aboard Bill Roper!!!!!
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
I don't want Cryptic or Turbine churning out another crappy D&D MMO. Wizards of the Coast really should be looking elsewhere for real talent to do the franchise justice.
I still don't understand why IP owners aren't forthing at the bit to get Blizzard or Bioware to make these games, instead of settling for these developmentaly challenged companies.
I don't want Cryptic or Turbine churning out another crappy D&D MMO. Wizards of the Coast really should be looking elsewhere for real talent to do the franchise justice.
I still don't understand why IP owners aren't forthing at the bit to get Blizzard or Bioware to make these games, instead of settling for these developmentaly challenged companies.
Agreed 200%. If they make a real D&D MMO and not some crap like DDO then please do it with a company that will truly care about the finished product and the weight that making a D&D MMO would mean.
"Poz has been well known in the "City of" and Champions Online community for many years, and is currently the Director of Game Programming on City of Heroes." This is incorrect. "Poz" has been with Cryptic since the days of City of Heroes, but they are currently the Director of Game Programming for Champions Online, not for City of Heroes.
I don't want Cryptic or Turbine churning out another crappy D&D MMO. Wizards of the Coast really should be looking elsewhere for real talent to do the franchise justice.
I still don't understand why IP owners aren't forthing at the bit to get Blizzard or Bioware to make these games, instead of settling for these developmentaly challenged companies.
Agreed 200%. If they make a real D&D MMO and not some crap like DDO then please do it with a company that will truly care about the finished product and the weight that making a D&D MMO would mean.
I don't know. There are only two other companies I'd prefer to work with the 4E Forgotten Realms; one of them has its hands full and no access to the FR license, whilst the other no longer exists.
I wouldn't want Cryptic near earlier iterations of the Realms, but 4E seems right up their alley. More so than Star Trek, anyway.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Originally posted by Kyroz I don't want Cryptic or Turbine churning out another crappy D&D MMO. Wizards of the Coast really should be looking elsewhere for real talent to do the franchise justice.
I still don't understand why IP owners aren't forthing at the bit to get Blizzard or Bioware to make these games, instead of settling for these developmentaly challenged companies.
The reason you won't ever see a proper DnD MMO from the likes of Blizzard or Bioware is that, well, bluntly, they're bigger than DnD. Blizzard has Warcraft, Bioware has Dragon Age.
Why make a DnD MMO that you then have to pay royalties on back to Wizards when you can make World of Warcraft or Dragon Age Online?
Star Wars of course is the exception. Then again Star Wars is probably the most profitable franchise in the history of franchises...so there's that too.
im pretty sure there is no forgotten realms dnd game being talked about except for maybe behind closed doors. im pretty sure cryptic is working on a cthulhu type gme or horror type game, one thing we do know is that cryptic will have it out in about 12 to 15 months due to how they make games, it will probably be not very good but will have a loyal fan base because it will be a already established ip.
If wizards ever allow another dnd game to be made it better be in forgotten realms and not stupid eberron and wizards needs to get one of the best developers in the business to make it, but i dont think it will ever happen, we will see a magic mmo before we ever see another dnd mmo imo.
Well those concept art images have been up since CoH was still fresh and new. So if they are from a title they are working on it will atleast had a decent development cycle time wise.
Well those concept art images have been up since CoH was still fresh and new. So if they are from a title they are working on it will atleast had a decent development cycle time wise.
Whilst i wish i could share your optimism i feel i have to point out that concept art images from way back when in no way indicate length of development time. At the time they were drawn it would have just been at the idea stage. Also bear in mind that the Cryptic engine (ala CO & STO) supposedly wasn't designed until Cryptic parted from NCSoft and any previous development (if there was any) would likely have been done on the now very outdated Co* one.
I'm not a big fan of Roper and would love to see him fade into obscurity rather then being put in charge of another project. I also don't have much faith that Cryptic can live up to what would be expected of them with a NWN's MMO, they can't get any worse but i don't think they have the proper vision for a project like that. Cthulu?If they improve enough they possibly can make a half decent MMO of it again i've not much faith that they can make a great MMO out of it.
It feels odd thinking of the company like this when there was a time way back near the start of CoH i'd have been saying the exact opposite. Sad really.
Wizards of The Coast (WOTC , owners of D&D) and Turbine are suing Atari (and Cryptic) for mishandling of D&D licence.
WOTC have their glass full of Atari bullshit , and its very unlikely Atari will manage to keep D&D licence , and probably will be closed as well in process.
So dont worry NWN and Forgotten Realms will never reach Cryptic grubby hands.
If I was to place a bet. I would say Turbine would develop NWN MMO
So help me <insert diety>. If the NWN MMORPG bombs, I will cry a river of tears and drown in it.
Neverwinter Nights was one of the BEST RPGs ever made. In fact, I've played it at least 6 times from start to finish. The community is just amazing, the game is just amazing, everything about it is amazing!
Some things should never be MMORPGs. NWN is one of them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Face it, Cryptic bent one of my very favourite TV shows (Star Trek) over a barrel and raped it. The same is going to happen to your favourite RPG.
I know you can't tell much by a picture but if thats Bill Roper I really would'nt be overly eager to put him in charge of anything if i were one of the suits at Cryptic . Something about him does'nt exactly inspire confidence, he looks scruffy and imature to me . An untidy unkempt appearance usually means and untidy mind . While theres nothing wrong in that in itself it not someone you would want to lead any project where large sums of money are involved .
Roper arrived late in the day for CO, the game was a mess before he arrived lacking any real conviction in theme or variety in gameplay. For all the criticism laid at his door the alpha test proved CO had no real ambition to be anything other than a run of the mill, generic mmo well before his presence was felt....so maybe its just a case of mission accomplised for Cryptic. What they desperately need is an influx of imagination and ambition, maybe a change around can help CO itself but new blood and a progressive design philosphy are really what is needed imo.
Comments
So help me <insert diety>. If the NWN MMORPG bombs, I will cry a river of tears and drown in it.
Neverwinter Nights was one of the BEST RPGs ever made. In fact, I've played it at least 6 times from start to finish. The community is just amazing, the game is just amazing, everything about it is amazing!
Some things should never be MMORPGs. NWN is one of them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Given the lessons learned from the NGE, is it reasonable to expect a new dir to turn things around for a game post-launch? I mean now that the game is live, there is only so much change you can bring before you reach tipping point of driving everyone away.
I don't see any chance of the cash shop going away completely, so the best we can hope for is that they will not extort the players too badly with the RMTs. So far this has been the case, at least in CO the store has not escalated beyond the initial offering, the only additions are costume pieces. Of course, some players are rightfully impatient in between updates when the C store is getting new costume sets, but they have regularly added free pieces with all the big updates, like this latest expansion with ~90 new pieces included with the base subscription.
I think they are just waiting until more of the market eventually catches up to the sub + RMT model. As this model grows in popularity, the big issue will not be whether a game has RMTs but the extent to which the company extorts the players (for example, XP potions are worse than costume pieces, IMO, since they are gameplay-effecting).
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Sad to hear this news. Bill Roper is the reason I bought Champions Online and now that hes gone I'll be canceling my subscription.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_%28AOL_game%29
It already was, my friend. But I see where you're coming from.
Although, never fear. There's still a lawsuit out there which could strip Cryptic/Atari of their rights to create anything involving D&D, which I hope Turbine wins.
To this day why would anyone hire someone who was in charge of one of the biggest failure in modern western mmo history. When the name of your company becomes a verb for fail. Maybe you should not hire the guy responsible. When I see his picture I want to run far far away. Looks like Cryptic may get flagshipped. If they keep this up. CO and STO will not live to see 2011. Maybe Atari will just dump them in a fire sale. So much potential. So little results.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
(1) I play CO with the black comic outlines turned off. The game is not really cell-shaded, it just has these black outlines (they are exactly like the black outlines in the emulator ZSNES, 2xSai, SuperEagle, etc).
(2) Check out some screenshots of STO. Even though I didn't care for that game, as a ST fan I do quite enjoy the art designs of the ships and costumes in that game. Also, the environmental art in the latest CO expansion is a pretty nice rendition of a New Orleans type city at night, so the artists are versatile.
Honestly, I think the graphics are one of the key things they will get right with these projects.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Whatever MMO is next I hope it is not instanced, but OPENED WORLD.
I agree, 100%. Hellgate: London failed specifically because of him and his idiotic policies. I honestly don't understand how he's gained meaningful employment after that.
Hell, nobody blames the team behind the game. Runic Games is mostly made up of those folks, and they churned out one of the most lauded and beloved releases of 2009.
But hell, Dave Allen convinced MMO gamers to give him another chance ( Alganon) after the Horizons debacle, so I guess anything's possible.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
The reason that big names in the VG business can recover from flops is the same reason that it happens in the movie business: from the publisher's point of view most all games/movies are flops, and they live for the big hits, so they conclude it is worth risking lots of money on someone who produced a hit in the past.
It should be no surprise that Bill Roper joined Cryptic after the Atari acquisition.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Bill Ropers Interview at Cryptic
Interviewer: So what have you been doing for the last 5 years Mr. Roper
Roper: I was CEO of flagship studios (while he eats all the M&M's off of the interviewers desk)
Interviewer: Isn't that the company that created the absolute failure Hellgate London
Roper: Yes
Interviewer: .........
Roper: ........... (Roper lets out a slow high pitched fart in the silence)
Interviewer: Welcome aboard Bill Roper!!!!!
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
I don't want Cryptic or Turbine churning out another crappy D&D MMO. Wizards of the Coast really should be looking elsewhere for real talent to do the franchise justice.
I still don't understand why IP owners aren't forthing at the bit to get Blizzard or Bioware to make these games, instead of settling for these developmentaly challenged companies.
Agreed 200%. If they make a real D&D MMO and not some crap like DDO then please do it with a company that will truly care about the finished product and the weight that making a D&D MMO would mean.
Knew this, silly mistake. Fixed, thanks.
Agreed 200%. If they make a real D&D MMO and not some crap like DDO then please do it with a company that will truly care about the finished product and the weight that making a D&D MMO would mean.
I don't know. There are only two other companies I'd prefer to work with the 4E Forgotten Realms; one of them has its hands full and no access to the FR license, whilst the other no longer exists.
I wouldn't want Cryptic near earlier iterations of the Realms, but 4E seems right up their alley. More so than Star Trek, anyway.
The reason you won't ever see a proper DnD MMO from the likes of Blizzard or Bioware is that, well, bluntly, they're bigger than DnD. Blizzard has Warcraft, Bioware has Dragon Age.
Why make a DnD MMO that you then have to pay royalties on back to Wizards when you can make World of Warcraft or Dragon Age Online?
Star Wars of course is the exception. Then again Star Wars is probably the most profitable franchise in the history of franchises...so there's that too.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
im pretty sure there is no forgotten realms dnd game being talked about except for maybe behind closed doors. im pretty sure cryptic is working on a cthulhu type gme or horror type game, one thing we do know is that cryptic will have it out in about 12 to 15 months due to how they make games, it will probably be not very good but will have a loyal fan base because it will be a already established ip.
If wizards ever allow another dnd game to be made it better be in forgotten realms and not stupid eberron and wizards needs to get one of the best developers in the business to make it, but i dont think it will ever happen, we will see a magic mmo before we ever see another dnd mmo imo.
Well those concept art images have been up since CoH was still fresh and new. So if they are from a title they are working on it will atleast had a decent development cycle time wise.
This have been a good conversation
Whilst i wish i could share your optimism i feel i have to point out that concept art images from way back when in no way indicate length of development time. At the time they were drawn it would have just been at the idea stage. Also bear in mind that the Cryptic engine (ala CO & STO) supposedly wasn't designed until Cryptic parted from NCSoft and any previous development (if there was any) would likely have been done on the now very outdated Co* one.
I'm not a big fan of Roper and would love to see him fade into obscurity rather then being put in charge of another project. I also don't have much faith that Cryptic can live up to what would be expected of them with a NWN's MMO, they can't get any worse but i don't think they have the proper vision for a project like that. Cthulu?If they improve enough they possibly can make a half decent MMO of it again i've not much faith that they can make a great MMO out of it.
It feels odd thinking of the company like this when there was a time way back near the start of CoH i'd have been saying the exact opposite. Sad really.
Actually...
Wizards of The Coast (WOTC , owners of D&D) and Turbine are suing Atari (and Cryptic) for mishandling of D&D licence.
WOTC have their glass full of Atari bullshit , and its very unlikely Atari will manage to keep D&D licence , and probably will be closed as well in process.
So dont worry NWN and Forgotten Realms will never reach Cryptic grubby hands.
If I was to place a bet. I would say Turbine would develop NWN MMO
Face it, Cryptic bent one of my very favourite TV shows (Star Trek) over a barrel and raped it. The same is going to happen to your favourite RPG.
Pffft. You are a master satirist my friend. I read your swimming thread and it was pure gold too.
I know you can't tell much by a picture but if thats Bill Roper I really would'nt be overly eager to put him in charge of anything if i were one of the suits at Cryptic . Something about him does'nt exactly inspire confidence, he looks scruffy and imature to me . An untidy unkempt appearance usually means and untidy mind . While theres nothing wrong in that in itself it not someone you would want to lead any project where large sums of money are involved .
Roper arrived late in the day for CO, the game was a mess before he arrived lacking any real conviction in theme or variety in gameplay. For all the criticism laid at his door the alpha test proved CO had no real ambition to be anything other than a run of the mill, generic mmo well before his presence was felt....so maybe its just a case of mission accomplised for Cryptic. What they desperately need is an influx of imagination and ambition, maybe a change around can help CO itself but new blood and a progressive design philosphy are really what is needed imo.