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If I like STO ship combat will I like EVE?

BattleFelonBattleFelon Tacoma, WAPosts: 483Member

I'm having fun with STO's space missions, but I crave more depth and some better PVP. I got a free copy of Eve with my latest PC gamer and thought about trying it out.

If I like the space portions of STO, will I like EVE's space combat? Also, are there decent PVE elements to EVE or is it completely a sand box? 

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Comments

  • Rockgod99Rockgod99 Manhatten, NYPosts: 4,640Member

    Only thing STO has going for itself is combat.

    Since you did ask about Eve I will tell you the combat is more Rts, point and click type game play.

    Yeah... Eve is all sandbox, stay with sto.

     

     

    image

    Playing: Rift, LotRO
    Waiting on: GW2, BP

  • koreandwkoreandw Phoenix, AZPosts: 3Member

    It's something you'll have to just download and try... Ship combat is nothing like STO.

    The biggest problem with EVE is the learning curve. STO is EZmode compared. I have a graph that might explain it better.

     

  • Major69er1Major69er1 Vero Beach, FLPosts: 77Member Common

    Heh, Nice Graph I couldnt have explained it better.

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member

    EVE game client is only $3.

    The first month you will subscribe it is the subscription fee and client fee, $15 + $3.

    I can't tell what the PC Gamer client gave you, but unless it is a full 30 days you're not really given the game for free. You could just get the client on dvd still needing to use a trial period and/or subscribing with the initial fee which is $18.

    So if you really are interested and want to contiune playing, use a 14 day trial see what the game brings you. If you like it ask for a 21 day trial invite and continue sub on that. Or just go directly to the 21 trial account.

    Anyway I like both the ship combat in STO and EVE and are playing both for the moment. My choice between those two, if I had to, I would choose EVE.

    Can't give you any tip or hints to as if you are going to like EVE. I can say though that if you would be go looking at the STO forums and listen to what is said there then you wouldn't be playing STO in first place. Do the same with EVE make up your own opinion by testing it by yourself.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    actually, the client is free. when you activate your account (after the 15 days) you pay a one-time $5 or $3 or something tiny like that and the 1 month or 3 month or w/e payment plan you choose. this gets you the free month and the remaining trial days get added to that month and of course the months you payed for. 

     

    so for $20 you get 75 days of play. I think it's worth trying, not much to do with $20 across 75 days. 

    image

  • KordeshKordesh P, NJPosts: 1,715Member

     Eve is the exact opposite of STO's combat. Position doesn't mean a thing, it's 90% luck (who happens to be loaded out for the encounter) and 10% tactics. The rest is basically orbiting at range and watching numbers go up and down and maybe a few unimpressive sparks from the cannons. It's not terribly fun to engage in or watch. 

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Kordesh


    it's 90% luck (who happens to be loaded out for the encounter)

     

    Pro-tip™: That aint luck, sweetcakes.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • LeilaoLeilao AdliyaPosts: 23Member

    There are some fun pve elemensin Eve.  most include a chance of pvp though o.o  Level 5 missions are fun~ Wormholes arefun~ 10/10 deadspace complexes are fun (probed combat sites) but most of those are in low sec space where people can and will hunt you down and hit you when you least expect it!

  • nikoliathnikoliath YPosts: 1,154Member
    Originally posted by BattleFelon


    I'm having fun with STO's space missions, but I crave more depth and some better PVP. I got a free copy of Eve with my latest PC gamer and thought about trying it out.
    If I like the space portions of STO, will I like EVE's space combat? Also, are there decent PVE elements to EVE or is it completely a sand box? 

     

    The combat is nothing like that of STO. I found the combat to be rather boring at times in eve. Movement is point & click. Not saying it's bad, just nothing like STO's space combat, other than its spaceships in space. I had 3 eve accounts at 1 point.

  • karantanijakarantanija koperPosts: 57Member


    Originally posted by Kordesh
     Eve is the exact opposite of STO's combat. Position doesn't mean a thing, it's 90% luck (who happens to be loaded out for the encounter) and 10% tactics. 

    so if I have scouts out who can provide me with good intel on an enemy fleet, their ship types and their most likely fitting depending on their fleet composition, so I can order my fleet mates to go into the right types of ships to counter their setups...I am lucky because as you said I happened to be loaded for the encounter?

    as the poster above me said, it aint luck. people don't understand the meaning of the sandbox. its not a team-park MMO, you don't cue for a fight and then fight it out. you gather intel, you prepare, and then you fight on your terms and win. that is why baiting is so popular these days, because you get your opponent to engage thinking he is fighting on his terms.

    if you lost because your opponent was in the right load-outs and you weren't, you weren't unlucky, you were unprepared.

    as for the op, I have not played sto pvp, I have only seen my roomate play it. personally I think its boring and stupid. you move a massive ship the size of small city with a joystick...and then there is no death penalty...
    I can understand how a fighter can be flown with a joystick, but not a ship the size of enterprise.
    eve is based on that principle, you wont be directing your ship, you will be dictating different orbits and speed settings. this might not be for everyone, but the idea is tactics and thinking over reflexes.
    ships are also highly customizable, so you cant really know what to expect when you engage one, and once you do realize its tactic you need to figure out a proper counter tactic, and if one is not possible, a way of getting out.


    because the sandbox is huge, you get to fly different ships, so you might like some and you might hate others. I prefer flying small fast ships in small hard to catch gangs, but then there are some who prefer flying huge battleships and carriers and fighting it out on a battlefield with hundreds of other players (actually fights go out to over 1000 these days).

    and that is the whole point of the game, it is a sandbox, so you can do whatever you want, but there wont be a cue for it, you have to go and do it.

    final note, eve is a multi player game (obviously), what this means is that solo pvp can be a lot harder. the moment you have a wingman, just one more player, things change, because you can both fit different things and plan accordingly. so its all about group pvp.

    so if you like group, tactical, diverse, meaningful pvp, where intel, preparation and tactics win the fight, then you will like eve online combat.

    as for pve, eve was known to have almost none. then they introduced wormholes where you scan for anomalies, probe down wormholes, and take a ride through them to the other side. there you can explore the riches of the system you discovered and make isk, by kill the residents of said system, salvaging their loot, and doing archaeology and some sites you find in space.
    but eve is a pvp game, that is why even pve, fighting against the residents of said systems, is a simulation of pvp. these NPCs are programmed to fight like players, so its pvp all over again.
    once you are done, you take all the wealth you have amassed and haul it to empire space to sell it.
    its a fun system cause once you jump through the wormhole, the wormhole can collapse and close behind you, so you will need to find a new one to get out, and who knows where you will get out. might be straight to empire (yeah right), might be in the middle of a 0.0 conflict region.

    so yeah, there is some pve, but again, its a sandbox, you gotta go and do it.

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp


    actually, the client is free. when you activate your account (after the 15 days) you pay a one-time $5 or $3 or something tiny like that and the 1 month or 3 month or w/e payment plan you choose. this gets you the free month and the remaining trial days get added to that month and of course the months you payed for. 
     
    so for $20 you get 75 days of play. I think it's worth trying, not much to do with $20 across 75 days. 

     

    That effectively makes the client not free. If he got a free client from a magazine it should be without that extra fee but I doubt it is.

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    The trial is free.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Robokapp


    actually, the client is free. when you activate your account (after the 15 days) you pay a one-time $5 or $3 or something tiny like that and the 1 month or 3 month or w/e payment plan you choose. this gets you the free month and the remaining trial days get added to that month and of course the months you payed for. 
     
    so for $20 you get 75 days of play. I think it's worth trying, not much to do with $20 across 75 days. 

     

    That effectively makes the client not free. If he got a free client from a magazine it should be without that extra fee but I doubt it is.

     

    No, it makes the client effectively free. A subscribed account is what he'll have to pay for.

    You can download the client for free direct from CCP

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by BattleFelon
    I'm having fun with STO's space missions, but I crave more depth and some better PVP. I got a free copy of Eve with my latest PC gamer and thought about trying it out.
    If I like the space portions of STO, will I like EVE's space combat? Also, are there decent PVE elements to EVE or is it completely a sand box? 

    I played and enjoy both games.

    I would say STO is more 'entertaining' and miles better in PVE.

    This is where EVE PVE becomes very boring but opens completely new world for PVP, a level unseen in any MMO. Big part of EVE PVP is not the engagement itself but everything that happens before and after.


    To sum it up:
    STO combat system offers great deal of complexity but have this action and 'immersing' part while EVE goes the opposite direction and improve the tactical at the expense of 'action pace' of the combat.

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Originally posted by Orphes

    Originally posted by Robokapp


    actually, the client is free. when you activate your account (after the 15 days) you pay a one-time $5 or $3 or something tiny like that and the 1 month or 3 month or w/e payment plan you choose. this gets you the free month and the remaining trial days get added to that month and of course the months you payed for. 
     
    so for $20 you get 75 days of play. I think it's worth trying, not much to do with $20 across 75 days. 

     

    That effectively makes the client not free. If he got a free client from a magazine it should be without that extra fee but I doubt it is.

     

    No, it makes the client effectively free. A subscribed account is what he'll have to pay for.

    You can download the client for free direct from CCP

     

    So...

    World of warcraft client is free...

    Age of Conan client is free...

    Because you can download them for free aswell. There is a multitude of games that you can dowlnoad for free and some even lets patch the client without subscribing or under trial. Heck all games are for free because you'd only need to pay this and that extra fee when you are starting to subscribe. Some call it retail package and some call it something else. And as you get Age of Conan for $20 aswell, well then that client is as much free as EVE online is.

    You see this is merely semantics. But having to pay an extra fee for the intitial subscription month doesn't really make the client for free does it. They just use different motivations, they word it different, for the extra fee.

    Limitations for trial accounts? Some doesnt let you move past some areas, EVE doesn't let you train certain skills, doesnt let you run another client if both aren't activated (subscription).

    Again this is only PR for both PC Gamer and CCP. The gameclient is not anymore "free" by getting it from PC Gamer.

    /Although one have to recognize the goodwill from CCP as if one buys the retail package you get the gametime regardless if the account is already activated, I have not seen any other games letting you add 30days (60days for EVE) after buying another retail package. I'm not saying that the deals from CCP is bad I'm just not agreeing that their client is free./

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • jagd1jagd1 istanbulPosts: 281Member

    Pcgamer client is broken www.eveonline.com/news.asp   download it from ccp

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by karantanija


     

    Originally posted by Kordesh

     Eve is the exact opposite of STO's combat. Position doesn't mean a thing, it's 90% luck (who happens to be loaded out for the encounter) and 10% tactics. 

     

    so if I have scouts out who can provide me with good intel on an enemy fleet, their ship types and their most likely fitting depending on their fleet composition, so I can order my fleet mates to go into the right types of ships to counter their setups...I am lucky because as you said I happened to be loaded for the encounter?

    as the poster above me said, it aint luck. people don't understand the meaning of the sandbox. its not a team-park MMO, you don't cue for a fight and then fight it out. you gather intel, you prepare, and then you fight on your terms and win. that is why baiting is so popular these days, because you get your opponent to engage thinking he is fighting on his terms.

    if you lost because your opponent was in the right load-outs and you weren't, you weren't unlucky, you were unprepared.

    as for the op, I have not played sto pvp, I have only seen my roomate play it. personally I think its boring and stupid. you move a massive ship the size of small city with a joystick...and then there is no death penalty...

    I can understand how a fighter can be flown with a joystick, but not a ship the size of enterprise.

    eve is based on that principle, you wont be directing your ship, you will be dictating different orbits and speed settings. this might not be for everyone, but the idea is tactics and thinking over reflexes.

    ships are also highly customizable, so you cant really know what to expect when you engage one, and once you do realize its tactic you need to figure out a proper counter tactic, and if one is not possible, a way of getting out.



    because the sandbox is huge, you get to fly different ships, so you might like some and you might hate others. I prefer flying small fast ships in small hard to catch gangs, but then there are some who prefer flying huge battleships and carriers and fighting it out on a battlefield with hundreds of other players (actually fights go out to over 1000 these days).

    and that is the whole point of the game, it is a sandbox, so you can do whatever you want, but there wont be a cue for it, you have to go and do it.

    final note, eve is a multi player game (obviously), what this means is that solo pvp can be a lot harder. the moment you have a wingman, just one more player, things change, because you can both fit different things and plan accordingly. so its all about group pvp.

    so if you like group, tactical, diverse, meaningful pvp, where intel, preparation and tactics win the fight, then you will like eve online combat.

    as for pve, eve was known to have almost none. then they introduced wormholes where you scan for anomalies, probe down wormholes, and take a ride through them to the other side. there you can explore the riches of the system you discovered and make isk, by kill the residents of said system, salvaging their loot, and doing archaeology and some sites you find in space.

    but eve is a pvp game, that is why even pve, fighting against the residents of said systems, is a simulation of pvp. these NPCs are programmed to fight like players, so its pvp all over again.

    once you are done, you take all the wealth you have amassed and haul it to empire space to sell it.

    its a fun system cause once you jump through the wormhole, the wormhole can collapse and close behind you, so you will need to find a new one to get out, and who knows where you will get out. might be straight to empire (yeah right), might be in the middle of a 0.0 conflict region.

    so yeah, there is some pve, but again, its a sandbox, you gotta go and do it.

    I think he is talking about when the bullets actually start flying. If for some weird and nearly impossible scenario such as two identically fitted rifters in EVE and two identically skill point players with the exact same skill point spread were to meet , set to orbit each other and fire, the winner would be based off of behind the scenes die rolls. The fight could very well end up as a stalemate as well because actual flying skill doesn't play a factor. Load out and skill points do. STO has load out, skill points too, as well as actual flying skill involved. Now before you EVE players get all riled up about that, you damn well know that you basically just have one shield to manage. Either that shield stays up or it gets knocked down. In STO, you basically have 4 shields to were facing takes on an actual meaning. Not to mention firing arcs. As far as I can remember, all of EVE's ship weapons fire in 360 degree arcs, so facing again gets thrown out the window. It has no bearing on your shield or weapons in EVE.  That is not the case in STO.  Different ships have different load outs, which causes the pilot to have to fly a certain way. Example,...a cruiser captain will mainly try to keep his sides facing the enemy in order to hit him with maximum firepower from a broadside. But his ship at the same time flys and turns pretty slow. The escort/ bird of prey captain will have mainly forward facing, heavy hitting weapons, but he will be more manueverable than the cruiser. Since he hits harder by going head on into his target, you can see that his flying style will be different. Now if you face two equally loaded and identical STO ships with two captains of the same class that have the same spread of skill points in the same spots will probably not end in a stalemate. Chances are the one who has more of a grasp over shield management and knows when to turn and when not to will most likely win. Sure in EVE there are ship modules that repair shields/hull and recharge the capacitors, but the point is, if both pilots clicked on orbit then fired their weapons and just sat back and watched, luck will decide the winner. You cant just click orbit and  fire in STO, and if you could, you would be dead quick to the person that actually "flew" his ship. Yes there is luck involved as well, but in STO's case, that extra element of actual flying (in video game sense) is the real factor. No I'm not saying STO is a superior game, just focused different when it actually comes down to ship-to-ship combat.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by rodingo

    If for some weird and nearly impossible scenario such as two identically fitted rifters in EVE and two identically skill point players with the exact same skill point spread were to meet , set to orbit each other and fire, the winner would be based off of behind the scenes die rolls. The fight could very well end up as a stalemate as well because actual flying skill doesn't play a factor. Load out and skill points do.

    If you do the same in STO and take 2 identical ships with identical crew and skills, let them sit still and shoot, the result won't be different from EVE.


    Both games have room for player error, just the room is placed in a bit different parts of the game.


    And to the poster you were replying to, saying that some of EVE PVE simulates PVP is highly inaccurate and exaggerated.
    Sleepers are nothing more than stat boosted NPC finaly using some threat mechanics. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by rodingo



    If for some weird and nearly impossible scenario such as two identically fitted rifters in EVE and two identically skill point players with the exact same skill point spread were to meet , set to orbit each other and fire, the winner would be based off of behind the scenes die rolls. The fight could very well end up as a stalemate as well because actual flying skill doesn't play a factor. Load out and skill points do.

     

    If you do the same in STO and take 2 identical ships with identical crew and skills, let them sit still and shoot, the result won't be different from EVE.



    Both games have room for player error, just the room is placed in a bit different parts of the game.



    And to the poster you were replying to, saying that some of EVE PVE simulates PVP is highly inaccurate and exaggerated.

    Sleepers are nothing more than stat boosted NPC finaly using some threat mechanics. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I think you missed my point. Sure in STO, the two could sit there and not move,..OR... you could fly around.  What options do you have in EVE? Thats right, sit there or fly around. In EVE the result will be the same either way. In STO, the way you and your opponent "flies" makes a difference. In EVE if you change direction, it wont have any bearing on your shields or weapons fire. Therefore there is no need to change direction in EVE, you just set your orbiting range then click. I know that once you put in a more realistic engagement all of this gets thrown out the window,..BUT,...for one verses one, equal engagment, there is another element in the mix that you just don't have in EVE. It's not a bad thing, the RTS style of combat works for EVE. It doesn't work for STO. Point being, they are two different games that approach combat differently.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by rodingo

    I think you missed my point. Sure in STO, the two could sit there and not move,..OR... you could fly around.  What options do you have in EVE? Thats right, sit there or fly around. In EVE the result will be the same either way. In STO, the way you and your opponent "flies" makes a difference. In EVE if you change direction, it wont have any bearing on your shields or weapons fire. Therefore there is no need to change direction in EVE, you just set your orbiting range then click. I know that once you put in a more realistic engagement all of this gets thrown out the window,..BUT,...for one verses one, equal engagment, there is another element in the mix that you just don't have in EVE. It's not a bad thing, the RTS style of combat works for EVE. It doesn't work for STO. Point being, they are two different games that approach combat differently.

    If you think manual piloting and player skills has no bearing on combat, you are very very wrong...

    Manual piloting allows you to break opponents orbit, dramaticaly reduce transversal and hit targets you would not be able to if you did not pilot manualy.
    Manual piloting is the difference between sitting in your ship or sitting in your pod when approaching an enemy with your interceptor.

    etc. etc.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    Speaking as someone who frequently flies a beam Zealot, I'm all in favour of inty pilots who think that all they have to do is burn towards me and then orbit at 7500m

    Key word: burn!

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus SchellhornPosts: 2,061Member


    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Speaking as someone who frequently flies a beam Zealot, I'm all in favour of inty pilots who think that all they have to do is burn towards me and then orbit at 7500m
    Key word: burn!

    I, too, approve of those pilots. (And there are a lot of them).

    I refer to them as pinatas. They rarely survive the first volley.

  • ShijeerShijeer NottinghamPosts: 131Member
    Originally posted by rodingo


    I think you missed my point. Sure in STO, the two could sit there and not move,..OR... you could fly around.  What options do you have in EVE? Thats right, sit there or fly around. In EVE the result will be the same either way. In STO, the way you and your opponent "flies" makes a difference. In EVE if you change direction, it wont have any bearing on your shields or weapons fire. Therefore there is no need to change direction in EVE, you just set your orbiting range then click. I know that once you put in a more realistic engagement all of this gets thrown out the window,..BUT,...for one verses one, equal engagment, there is another element in the mix that you just don't have in EVE. It's not a bad thing, the RTS style of combat works for EVE. It doesn't work for STO. Point being, they are two different games that approach combat differently.

     

    Obviously some of you have a very pitiful grasp of EVE battle mechanics. Please let me enlighten your ignorant minds. Below are some of the factors that affect EVE combat in regard to -movement alone-, taken from an informative fan site.

     

    __________________________________________________________________________

     

    Range penalty



    Turrets optimal range.

    Turrets falloff range.



    Signature resolution matching



    Targets signature resolution.

    Turrets signature radius.

     

    Tracking speed and velocity



    Targets transversal velocity

    Turrets tracking speed and distance to the target.

     

    Range Penalty

     

    Look at the attributes of a gun, and look at two stats in particular:

    Optimal range.

    Accuracy Falloff.

     

    For sake of example, we'll give them values:

    Optimal range =15km

    Accuracy Falloff = 5km

     

    Anywhere in Optimal Range, no range penalty is applied so your chance to hit as far as range is concerned is 100%. So 0-15km, you will always hit. In a perfect world.

    If your target is over 15km away and under 20km away (Optimal range + Accuracy Falloff = 20km) then a sliding scale of Range Penalty applies starting at 0% at the 15km mark rising to 50% at 20km.

    So basically, at 20km you now have 50% less chance of hitting the target. That's quite a penalty to consider.

    We're not done yet. Let's say that the enemy is flying away (or you are!) and weapons are still blazing away. You are now between 20km and approaching 25km away.

    This is Optimal range + Accuracy Falloff + Accuracy Falloff = 25km

    Another 50% sliding scale applies to that last 5km with the result that at 25km away, you have NO CHANCE to hit the target at all.

    You have to also bear in mind that your ammo affects the range of your guns.

    As a very blunt rule, Anti-Matter shortens the range but increases damage at that short range, Iron is longer range but fairly poor damage with other ammunition types fitting in between. Check the range penalty attribute of the ammo for details.

    Let's now look at:

     

    Signature Radius and Signature Resolution.

     

    Typical Signature Resolution of the Turrets (the size of target the turret is best suited for)

    (Do not confuse with charge size! e.g. 125mm rail gun)

     

    Large Turrets = 400m

    Medium Turrets = 125m

    Small Turrets = 40m

    Typical Signature Radius for the enemy ship (how big it looks to turrets)

    Battleships = 400m

    Cruisers = 125m

    Frigates = 40m

     

    The closer the match, the better the chance to hit.

    What tends not to work is a battleship with large turrets firing on a frigate. A lot of shots will simply miss.

    Comfortable with that so far? Cool.

     

    Tracking Speed.

     

    Each turret has a tracking speed. The faster the tracking speed means it can track faster targets erm, faster.

    If you have a slow turret tracking a fast target that's just a situation full of fail and not much will happen no matter how often you bash the keyboard. 



    So what we need to know really is what is fast, what is medium and what is slow.

    Eve uses some measurements that some of us probably have never used outside of a maths class so lets get used to it again.

     

    Radians per second! Say it again, Radians per second.

    Fast turret 0.2 rads per sec

    Medium turret 0.1 rads per sec

    Slow turret 0.066 rads per sec

     

    So now we know that the goal is to be at a range from the target that has a good chance to hit and also the turret needs to be able to track the target effectively.

     

    Transversal Velocity

     

    Ok well low transversal velocity is obtained in the following examples:

    Two ships approaching

    The ships fly away from each other

    One ship chases another

    Both ships fly in the same direction at the same speed.

    All of the above give a low transversal velocity.

    A high transversal velocity is obtained when:

    One ship stands still and the other orbits

    One ship approaches or leaves at a 90 degree angle.



    The lower the transversal velocity and the further away it is, (within optimal) the easier it is to hit with full damage, the turrets aren't tracking at any speed you see.

    The higher the targets transversal velocity and closer it is (turrets will have a harder job tracking) means it will be harder to hit.



    Turn your attention to this little graphical guide that illustrates the above principles.  Link

     

    ___________________________________________________________________________

     

     

    TLDR :

     

    The player has controls -all- of the above factors, he has to make split second decisions in battle while keeping all of the above and much more in mind.

     

    Saying that player control of the ship has no bearing on the battle is so ignorant its painful. While in starter PvE it might simply mean killing stuff faster or slower, in PvP it is the difference between victory and defeat.

     

    Also take note that we are discussing STO, a game where you have only a handful of different weapons and NO range and NO speed and NO directionality mechanics whatsoever, thats right, all weapons regardless of type, all ships have a firing range of 10 km. With absolutely no regard to anything but having the target in the cone of fire and clicking a button ad nauseam, while the -awesomely- complex shield management turns into you essentially flying in circles and frantically hitting the 'balance shields' button.  

     

    compared to EVE, the combat skill and complexity of STO can be summed up with the following illustration :

     

      

                                               

     

                 "Don’t let the deceptively simple look fool you — it’s more challenging than it seems"

     

    Yeah, its definitely more 'hands on' ... brightening the minds of the young since the 16th century...

     

    That being said I do think that STO is a good-looking, decent and entertaining, albeit repetitively dull game for a console. Fit for quick sessions of mindless and relaxing pew-pew for someone who doesn't want the bother of an actual living, breathing, deep and meaningful virtual world.

     

    However, do not be under any illusion of player skill, especially when considering EVE in comparison. The whole argument of 'player skill' in STO rests on the ridiculous presumption that more physical activity equals more sill.  By that logic Tetris involves more skill then chess, or blitz chess in the case of EVE.

     

    Combat is different, perhaps less cinematic some would argue, but also more cerebral and meaningful, much more challenging and long lasting. Furthermore, considering the silly arcade-style death system in STO, much much more exciting and purposeful. Besides EVE does not limit your in-game possibilities to combat alone, a whole universe opens up and that IMO is what matters. It is well worth the investment.

     

    To judge it by the starting battles is to judge WoW based on killing boars in the stating zone while completely ignoring the rest of the game. Most of the nay-sayers have no idea what they're talking about, they didn't take the time to explore and appreciate the possibilities. Then again, choice is not to everyones liking, free will can be a difficult burden to bear and many feel confused and even repulsed at the lack of a spoon feeding them...

     

    Finally, to answer the OP :



    Does EVE have more 'depth' ?

    Is PvP in EVE 'better' ?



    Regardless of how you choose to define and argue the semantics and subjectivity of both, EVE has them in spades... 

     

     

    - Shijeer

     

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  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Kordesh


     Eve is the exact opposite of STO's combat. Position doesn't mean a thing, it's 90% luck (who happens to be loaded out for the encounter) and 10% tactics. The rest is basically orbiting at range and watching numbers go up and down and maybe a few unimpressive sparks from the cannons. It's not terribly fun to engage in or watch. 



     

    Only someone who is bad at Eve thinks its 90% luck. 

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Shijeer

    Keep in mind that we are discussing STO, a game where you have a like 4 different weapons and NO range mechanics whatsoever, thats right, all weapons regardless of type, all ships have a firing range of 10 km. With absolutely no regard to anything but having the target in the cone of fire and clicking a button ad nauseam, while the -awesomely- complex shield management turns into you essentially flying in circles.  
    - Shijeer
     

    No true... even thought there is no optimal attribute on weapons listed, range affects your damage.


    STO combat is complex enough, just focused more on direct control of your ship.

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