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PvP in most MMO's is another pixel grind. You grind PvP to get new shiny pixels.
You need reason to fight for more then just new gear/loots.
That's why PvP works in shooter games, it isn't about gear/loots it's about winning and competition.
I think games like the last few Call of Duty games do PvP with gear/loots right.
The advanced stuff helps, a lot of it is just for looks or bragging rights, and the base line gear is nearly as good as the end-game stuff, just different.
Good PvP in MMOs requires a few base things it cannot be great without (IMO):
1. More then two factions/armies with some measures of population balance, underdog bonuses, etc.2. Territorial control/capture. H*ll even the Conquest system in FFXI, a PvE system is better then most PvP MMOs have.3. Reliance on skill/strategy over loot/stats/numbers. This is the hardest one to do, especially if you want a RPG like advancement system for players (be it skills,levels, loot, gear, etc.)4. Reason to fight greater then personal gain. Games like EVE can excel at this, but can also be hindered quite easily by the sheep/wolf allowance of griefing/ganking. You need reason to hate your enemies, but enough control (either artifical means like "you cannot attack X" or through honor) to keep some degree of fairness and.... let's say "quality" enemies to fight.
I really think MMOs have gotten too complex to allow for these things to happen agian. The "great" PvP games people always talk about, UO, DaoC, EVE, and now even Darkfall which is just a 3D UO but low-budget... all very old school. Simple, less complex. Well, EvE is certainly complex but the basic ruleset is very simple, there are no rules.
This I think takes things too far off the deep end, but the principle is there.
WoW proves without doubt that many people, most of the MMO playerbase likes rules and control and a lot less risk then games like UO was or Darkfall/EvE, but at the same time WoW leaves a great many of those players feeling like something is greatly lacking.
The freedom of the old games is both their blessing and curse.
The day someone figures out how to bring back the old-school feelings of rivalry and competition with conquest and glory through more open-world meaningful PvP, but make it friendly enough for the masses to get involved and we'll have the next great PvP MMO on our hands.
Of course I would play A PVE MMO.
When I really feel the urge to PVP other people I play FPS (twitch) games, they give everyone an even playing field. That way you can see if you are actually better than someone else rather than depend on "uber gear" to win the fight for you.
With almost all PVP MMOs, it is all about what gear you are wearing, I work for a living so cannot compete with the kids that can stay home all day playing the game and gathering the best PVP gear.
MMOs have brought lameness to the PVP arena, and all the PVP gank kiddies can DIAF
No never, I might play a full PvP game if it was as accessable as WAR PvP but full PvE? Then I would just play a single player game.
Originally posted by Soupgoblin Of course I would play A PVE MMO.When I really feel the urge to PVP other people I play FPS (twitch) games, they give everyone an even playing field. That way you can see if you are actually better than someone else rather than depend on "uber gear" to win the fight for you. With almost all PVP MMOs, it is all about what gear you are wearing, I work for a living so cannot compete with the kids that can stay home all day playing the game and gathering the best PVP gear. MMOs have brought lameness to the PVP arena, and all the PVP gank kiddies can DIAF
That is a very limited view on MMOG PvP. What you fail to realise is that PvP in MMOG allows for persistant territorial control (if the game supports it) which is far more interesting than CS fragfests (which can be fun as well).
I'd absolutely play a 100% pve mmo. I've done my share of pvping (DAoC, WoW) and just find I burn out quicker on pvp content than I do pve. Many western gamers prefer pve over pvp anyways as evidence by success of pve-centric games such as EQ2 and CoH. Even WoW has more pve servers than pvp.
If the pve content is fun, immersive and challenging the lack of pvp won't even be noticed by me. Sure, allow things such as duelling if you want as that is just "for fun" pvp, requiring no balancing by the developers. For the most part though I enjoy exploring the game world and experiencing the lore while doing quests.
If I wanted pwn some noobs and teabag away, I'd be playing Counterstrike or Halo.
no pve is boring and carebear
to make this question easier to myself
would I play internet Chess against another player or computer?
player me thinks.
Originally posted by inBOIL to make this question easier to myselfwould I play internet Chess against another player or computer?player me thinks.
some people are just anti social
You can´t compare that with a mmorpg.
Chess is a nice game,both have the same ground to start of, the rules are clear and it is pretty hard to cheat + its 1v1.
A PVP mmorpg will make people hack , cheat, exploit bugs and zerg. all these things give the victim a
big disadvantage or even no possible way to get out nor win.
How can that be something desriable?
On the raw cause sure pvp can be pretty entertaining cause it gives me dynamic intelegent(more or less) oppnents,
but good pve can that too..even better you can program it to do things a player would never do what may give more interesting
PVP is clearly overrated and gets the worst out of man
AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWIEq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blablaalso hobbies....staring at loadingbars
Originally posted by GetViolated no pve is boring and carebear
Why is pve carebear? I think there are many games out with pve that give you harder penalty for failing then there are pvp games
that give you harsh penatlies,
Pve is boring..hm thats mood. Some like counterstrike more, some WoW
Originally posted by bubu_3k Tbh was expecting more negative replies.I'm also surprised by the fact that there aren't answer like "a mmo without pvp sucks" and crap like that. Guess the mmorpg.com community is more mature then i thought it would be:)
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
Originally posted by Speiberbob Originally posted by GetViolated no pve is boring and carebear
I would say that PvP has the potential to be even more carebear then PvE.
Grind yourself up to whatever the max is be it skills or gear or levels whatever and you can go around "pwning noobs" that pose absolutely no threat to you, what is more carebear then that?
It's really easy being a wolf when all you do is pray on sheep.
It's when the hunter shows up or a rival wolf pack that you tuck your tail between your legs and run.
A successful PvP MMO would have to limit the wolf's access to the sheep, yet encourage the hunter AND the wolf to seek prey.
Carebear or no Carebear, an AI is still lightyears away from being as intelligent as a good player, not to mention unpredictable, so why play against an AI when you can play against a real human being?
Well obviously because it is easier to beat an AI but not everyone wants things to be easy and predictable.
Originally posted by Yamota Carebear or no Carebear, an AI is still lightyears away from being as intelligent as a good player, not to mention unpredictable, so why play against an AI when you can play against a real human being?Well obviously because it is easier to beat an AI but not everyone wants things to be easy and predictable.
You're kidding me.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Originally posted by maji Originally posted by Yamota Carebear or no Carebear, an AI is still lightyears away from being as intelligent as a good player, not to mention unpredictable, so why play against an AI when you can play against a real human being?Well obviously because it is easier to beat an AI but not everyone wants things to be easy and predictable.
You have all heard similar comments before, I just wanted to say that done right pvp can be a positive aspect to the genera. Pvp is not for everyone, but the challenge of it is a draw for me. It would be difficult to start playing a new game knowing the option was not available.
* I read most of what Jon Wood writes* He needs more bullet points though
I wanted to add that PvP requires massive amounts of resources put into maintaining "balance" in a class-based game. If you take PvP out, then balance isn't quite as important.
Just think of all the resources that developers spend trying to keep classes properly "balanced" for PvP, and what the game would get had that effort gone into playable content. Just focusing on some level of PvE leveling parity is a lot easier than doing that AND making sure each class is viable by itself in PvP.
Its amazing how many ppl think pvp is a necessity in an online game. I remember EQ1 as being the
best game hands down Ive ever played and it had no real pvp. Since EQ1 Ive played virtually every
game out there and none come close to that game. For me my time is worth alot and being
ganked by a group of 12 year olds just isnt fun. Ultima Online proved that to me. Wall of fire at
the dungeon entrance was sure fun zoning in and finding yourself already dead with the guy
who put up the wall already wearing your gear. Ive found way too many times that the "BEST"
pvper is the one with the best connection or puter. I did well in WoW with the pvp and was in
the top 50 on my server but I only did it because I had nothing else to do. I had already done
every instance in the game with my guild and had nothing else to see. I also remember in EQ1
that there were approx 10x the number of non pvp servers vs pvp servers. It proved to me there
were many many more non pvpers than the other way around but the squeaky wheel the pvpers
put up always seemed to get them what they wanted along with the powergamers. I will say
those powergamers did push the game along in some ways but for the devs to always bow
down to them was a bit much. Like others have said the resources blown to make sure every
class is balanced vs every other class is a huge drain. If they spent that time on content instead
of listening to ppl cry that their chars arnt as powerful as the next guys you could get a great
game. As it is as long as pvpers keep getting the oil for that wheel the rest of us will have to
accept pvp in every other game. Personally I would love a non pvp game IF it had a good
story line. Lotro is a pretty good example of that but to me its a bit short on classes/races. I
know they have to stay true to middle earth but I like alot of choices like EQ1 had. Anyways
I dont see pvp going away.
Originally posted by MrTRiot I dont think I would play a fully PvE game... Personally, I like going out PvEing, getting some good loot and testing it out against the competition.... With no pvp....there is no competition....and with no competition... there's not much point in playing an MMO If you want a fully PvE game, go play Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age. MMOs are about interacting and challenging yourself against other players...if you take that away then you take away what makes MMOs good.... PLAYER INTERACTION!!! No point in paying $10-15 a month to battle some AI monsters. I can do that in single player games with no monthly fee..
So teaming up with other players to accomplish something isn't player interaction??? explain
And teaming up with other players to take down an extremely hard dungeon or boss isn't challenging??? explain
How are either of the above the same as a single player game? MMos are about interaction and challenge, which PvP provides, but they are also about being social and sharing an experience which pvp provides less of.
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no, i would not. Why pay for half a game? Good PvP is a big part of keeping my interest in any game as I have not found a dev team that can pump out content for Pve fast enough to keep me statisfied. Ive played pure pve games before. What ive found is that they usually take at most a month to burn though the pve. Then without the pvp i find the game is canceled soon after cause i will not pay monthy subs just to rerun the top dungens to get the fancy loot. I really dont care about shiney things and im looking for games that i can play for Years not just weeks at $40 a pop.
I also think it matters what type of game it is. A game like DAoC is built around pvp, including meaningful pvp objectives that have a server-wide effect. Go to CoH and the pvp is more of the "for fun" variety as the game is ripe with pve content to the point many don't miss the lack of pvp.
If you cram pvp in a game that doesn't really seem built for pvp, then that game as a whole has been diminished. Instead of adding pve content, you excluded it for something pvp that doesn't seem to "fit".