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Making a Rogue Ship

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  • VultureSkullVultureSkull LONDONPosts: 1,774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by nikoa

    So should I go Amarr then for the Pilgrim?

    I realize I can cross train but is that easy?

     



    I wouldn't go with a Pilgrim. The ship ain't really any good, imo.

     



     

    Why not?

    The Pilgrim is the only Recon ship that has any teeth curtsey of it's drones, you won't be taking out BSs with it ofc not, but haulers, frigs and all small vessels will be fair game.

     

     

    Originally posted by sadeyx

    Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.

     

    Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.

     

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus SchellhornPosts: 2,061Member


    Originally posted by VultureSkull

     
    Why not?


    The pilgrim has to get within webrange to use its neuts, making it extremely vulnerable. It also lacks dps and is paper thin. The Pilgrim can only use the the second ewar bonus on turret ships, but most of your prey will be flinging missiles at you.

    A much better choice for ambushing is the arazu, having more dps, more survivability and ewar that helps for all ships.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VultureSkull
     
    Why not?
    The Pilgrim is the only Recon ship that has any teeth curtsey of it's drones, you won't be taking out BSs with it ofc not, but haulers, frigs and all small vessels will be fair game.
     

    Most what batolemaeus already said.

    In fact, all force recons have about same DPS. What is different for Pilgrim is tank. Other recons rely on speed and range control while pilgrim has to armor tank at close proximity.

    That means if something goes wrong, I die while other recons could probably bail out. And what can get wrong with a Pilgrim is quite a lot...

  • sadeyxsadeyx leicesterPosts: 1,553Member
    Originally posted by VultureSkull 
     Originally posted by sadeyx
    Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.
     
    Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.

     

     

    Sorry I dis-agree.  some of the required skills take months on their own.

    Would you really have a new player sat there for 30 days training one skill when he still has Learning skills to do? When he has yet to sit in a Battleship?..  when he hardly even has the ability to afford one, let alone replace it.

    Please remember that Stealth Bomber is a PvP vessel!  In order to pvp you need to be self-sufficient.  Being self sufficient is usually the first requirment of any Pvp organisation (they dont want leechers)

    His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.

  • VultureSkullVultureSkull LONDONPosts: 1,774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by batolemaeus


     

    Originally posted by VultureSkull
     
     

    Why not?

     

    The pilgrim has to get within webrange to use its neuts, making it extremely vulnerable. It also lacks dps and is paper thin. The Pilgrim can only use the the second ewar bonus on turret ships, but most of your prey will be flinging missiles at you.

    A much better choice for ambushing is the arazu, having more dps, more survivability and ewar that helps for all ships.



     

    You guys are missing the point:

    1) The requirement is a stealth ship.

    2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.

    3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.

    4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

  • VultureSkullVultureSkull LONDONPosts: 1,774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sadeyx

    Originally posted by VultureSkull 
     Originally posted by sadeyx
    Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.
     
    Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.

     

     

    Sorry I dis-agree.  some of the required skills take months on their own.

    Would you really have a new player sat there for 30 days training one skill when he still has Learning skills to do? When he has yet to sit in a Battleship?..  when he hardly even has the ability to afford one, let alone replace it.

    Please remember that Stealth Bomber is a PvP vessel!  In order to pvp you need to be self-sufficient.  Being self sufficient is usually the first requirment of any Pvp organisation (they dont want leechers)

    His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.



     

    I agree with you, it is best to become self sufficent first and the best advice is what you give above of that there is no doubt.

    However, he can always have stealth ships as his overall aim, that is what i meant.

    And talior what he learns accordingly, he for example, may not need to go all the way to Battleship if he can trade to make isk and be self sufficient that way.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VultureSkull
     
    You guys are missing the point:
    1) The requirement is a stealth ship.
    2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.
    3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.
    4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

    We are not missing the point, we fly those ships(at least me) :)


    If you want to pick on haulers, defenseless ships and frigs, there are better ships and ways how to do it.

  • VultureSkullVultureSkull LONDONPosts: 1,774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by VultureSkull

     

    You guys are missing the point:

    1) The requirement is a stealth ship.

    2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.

    3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.

    4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

     

    We are not missing the point, we fly those ships(at least me) :)



    If you want to pick on haulers, defenseless ships and frigs, there are better ships and ways how to do it.

     



     

    Its been some time since i have looked at the other Recon ships(covert), but the last time i checked none has the dps of the Pilgrim.

    Please let me know which other Recon ship can match the dps of the pilgrim. Or can do a better job.

    Thanks,

     

    EDIT: Just checked and all the other recon ships ( taht cn fit the cover cloak) have 4 HI slots, 3 turrets and 1 launcher.

    One Hi slot will go to the cloak, so left with either 3 turrets or 2 turrets/1 launcher .

    A full set of medium drones would do more DPS then 3 turrets or 3 turrets/1 launcher, more so if you need to fit a tank and warpscramb/web and have no space for damage mods and tracking computers.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VultureSkull
     
    Its been some time since i have looked at the other Recon ships(covert), but the last time i checked none has the dps of the Pilgrim.
    Please let me know which other Recon ship can match the dps of the pilgrim. Or can do a better job.
    Thanks,


    You were checking wrong then or your memory fails you. Any recon can do about the same DPS so the pick is yours.

    Pilgrim: 238 DPS with 5x Hammerhead
    Arazu: 226 DPS with 150mm Dual Rails(the weakest possible, no dmg enchancers) and drones.

    Pilgrim has no room for guns at all(if you want to use neuts) while other ships can use guns + drones/+lows so it evens out at the end.

    You're welcome :)

  • VultureSkullVultureSkull LONDONPosts: 1,774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     
     


     
    You're welcome :)
     



     

    Thank you, I stand corrected.

    When these ships first came out the Pilgrim was the only viable option regarding DPS. As the others had like one turret.

    Thanks for clearing this up.

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VultureSkull
     
    Thank you, I stand corrected.
    When these ships first came out the Pilgrim was the only viable option regarding DPS. As the others had like one turret.
    Thanks for clearing this up.
     

    The Pilgrim popularity at release had nothing to do with DPS but overpowered NOS.

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    I like the falcon fitted with blasters, i tend to lose them a fair bit but they are fun to fly. Or you could fit a covert cyno to a rapier and use a bomber gang a couple of systems back as your dps. Or use a normal cyno and bring in a carrier or 6.

     

    The pilgrim is apparently an ok ship to fly, you have to be careful but with the web changes and a lowsec plate + afterburner you can easily outpace anything that can track you, just pick your targets.

  • nikoanikoa San Diego, CAPosts: 70Member

    I understand that in EVE certain things take time.  I am fine with that.  

    It appears that I should get more immediate goals in the meantime.

    Perhaps this is where the EVE problem exists, when someone has too many options he gets lost in the details.  I am guessing that the best thing I can do is keep exploring the universe and game functionality for a bit and then start working on specific goals since right now I don't know 95% of the gameplay anyway.


    Current Games: EVE, WoW

    Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, CoH, CoX, MXO, GW, Silk Road, WAR, AoC, Anarchy Online, UO, DDO
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon

    Pilgrim getting owned by T1 cruiser:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RalI4tOxdQ8

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    If you want intermediate goals, a good strategy is to break it down into steps.

     

    Firstly you need to be self sufficient, so you need a way to make money. The easiest way for new players to get cash and experience in combat is to run missions, missions come from agents and they are ranked into levels.

    Level 1 missions can be done by a new character in a combat frigate (rifter, kestral / merlin, punisher, tristan).

    Level 2 missions can be done by a week old character in a cruiser (omen, caracal, rupture or thorax).

    Level 3 missions are aimed at battlecruisers (hurricane, drake, harbinger or myrmadon).

    Level 4 missions are battleship missions (raven, dominix, abbaddon, maelstrom).

     

    Or you can do for an industrial route, building or trading both give good money.

     

    My suggestion would be to get a little cash together by doing level 2 missions, and then go buy a dozen frigates and go lose them in pvp. The earlier you get into the pvp side of eve the better.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Xennith
    If you want intermediate goals, a good strategy is to break it down into steps.
     
    Firstly you need to be self sufficient, so you need a way to make money. The easiest way for new players to get cash and experience in combat is to run missions, missions come from agents and they are ranked into levels.
    Level 1 missions can be done by a new character in a combat frigate (rifter, kestral / merlin, punisher, tristan).
    Level 2 missions can be done by a week old character in a cruiser (omen, caracal, rupture or thorax).
    Level 3 missions are aimed at battlecruisers (hurricane, drake, harbinger or myrmadon).
    Level 4 missions are battleship missions (raven, dominix, abbaddon, maelstrom).
     
    Or you can do for an industrial route, building or trading both give good money.
     
    My suggestion would be to get a little cash together by doing level 2 missions, and then go buy a dozen frigates and go lose them in pvp. The earlier you get into the pvp side of eve the better.

    I do not think this is good way to start the game.

    Running missions force you into certain type of SP ditribution which is not desirable in many cases.

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    Missions are the most accessable cash making route for new players, nearly every player does that and then moves on to other areas, im not advocating a migration to motsu, but a way to get a toehold onto the eve totem pole.

  • MarlusFongMarlusFong Havana, FLPosts: 1Member



    My suggestion would be to get a little cash together by doing level 2 missions, and then go buy a dozen frigates and go lose them in pvp. The earlier you get into the pvp side of eve the better.

    All good advice from Xennith, especially that last line about the 'dozen frigates'.  Don't forget to use a Jump Clone in that disposable frigate!

    M. Fong

     

    from the sticky pad of MarlusF

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by sadeyx


     His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.



     

    I understand the Frigate - Cruiser - Battleship route.

    Skill up to level 4 missions?

    What minimums would you think?

    Core competency up to.. standard?

    Armor tanking standard?

    Battleship turrets (kind based on ship race) up to basic?

    Focus on some aspect of Electronic Warfare? be it warp/statis or target etc?

    Drones up to... ? What kind of drones should one aim for for a battleship? combat i'm sure but scout, fighter, bomber?

  • TheHatterTheHatter None, ARPosts: 2,547Member

    His goal should not be missions if he doesn't like them. It will turn him away from the game forever.

    Missions are freaking horrible.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by Xennith

    If you want intermediate goals, a good strategy is to break it down into steps.

     

    Firstly you need to be self sufficient, so you need a way to make money. The easiest way for new players to get cash and experience in combat is to run missions, missions come from agents and they are ranked into levels.

    Level 1 missions can be done by a new character in a combat frigate (rifter, kestral / merlin, punisher, tristan).

    Level 2 missions can be done by a week old character in a cruiser (omen, caracal, rupture or thorax).

    Level 3 missions are aimed at battlecruisers (hurricane, drake, harbinger or myrmadon).

    Level 4 missions are battleship missions (raven, dominix, abbaddon, maelstrom).

     

    Or you can do for an industrial route, building or trading both give good money.

     

    My suggestion would be to get a little cash together by doing level 2 missions, and then go buy a dozen frigates and go lose them in pvp. The earlier you get into the pvp side of eve the better.

     

    I do not think this is good way to start the game.

    Running missions force you into certain type of SP ditribution which is not desirable in many cases.

     

    The SP distribution isn't so bad, the real problem is that doing nothing but missions tends to give people some very wrong ideas about the type of game EvE is.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • XennithXennith BirminghamPosts: 1,244Member

    Getting a level 2 agent and getting enough cash together for a bunch of rifters is not doing nothing but missions, it would probably only take a casual player a week or two to do that, especially after doing the tutorials which now kick you out wth a couple of ships and about 3 million isk.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Xennith
    Missions are the most accessable cash making route for new players, nearly every player does that and then moves on to other areas, im not advocating a migration to motsu, but a way to get a toehold onto the eve totem pole.



    Originally posted by Malcanis
     
    The SP distribution isn't so bad, the real problem is that doing nothing but missions tends to give people some very wrong ideas about the type of game EvE is.


    I am aware that I might be a bit too much perfectionist here but my point is:

    If someone asks me how to start PVP, I tell him to fous on interceptors. This is where all skilling up for BS running L4 ain't helping him much.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,871Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by heerobya
    Originally posted by sadeyx  His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.

     
    I understand the Frigate - Cruiser - Battleship route.
    Skill up to level 4 missions?
    What minimums would you think?
    Core competency up to.. standard?
    Armor tanking standard?
    Battleship turrets (kind based on ship race) up to basic?
    Focus on some aspect of Electronic Warfare? be it warp/statis or target etc?
    Drones up to... ? What kind of drones should one aim for for a battleship? combat i'm sure but scout, fighter, bomber?


    The fact is, you can run L4 in sentry Dominix on 2 weeks old character with astonoshing efficiency.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami


     

    Originally posted by Xennith

    Missions are the most accessable cash making route for new players, nearly every player does that and then moves on to other areas, im not advocating a migration to motsu, but a way to get a toehold onto the eve totem pole.

     

     



    Originally posted by Malcanis

     

    The SP distribution isn't so bad, the real problem is that doing nothing but missions tends to give people some very wrong ideas about the type of game EvE is.


     



    I am aware that I might be a bit too much perfectionist here but my point is:

    If someone asks me how to start PVP, I tell him to fous on interceptors. This is where all skilling up for BS running L4 ain't helping him much.

     

    Not everyone likes flying Interceptors. I'm no good at them myself. Now T2 Cruisers, on the other hand...

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

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