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Star Trek Online: In Need of a "Meaningful" Death Penalty

2

Comments

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 1,880Member
    Originally posted by Dugath


    This games needs to be put to death. It is just a bad game..
     
    Seriously.. take this game.. remove all Star Trek content.. the Characters and ships..ect.. just replace it with other non-star trek stuff.. call the game Space Adventure or something..
    Would people play this game then? Heck I doubt it would have ever been released..
     
    This game is just a bad game. Lots of people bought it because of the IP.. Lots of people will leave once their 30 free days is up.
    Only the die hard Star trek people will continue to play and say "oh this is a great game".. 
    No depth to the game.
    all missions are more or less the same
    Unplayable Klingons
    Loads of downtime
    Craptasitc PvP
    way way too instanced. to the point where it does not seem like a MMO
    I really..really tired to like it.. the fast leveling, with no real game content, shallow game play.. it just because so boring I can not even bring myself to finish the remaining free days I have..

     

    You can say the same for pretty much every game out right now.

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member

     I agree that there should be a death penalty. But not at this point. The game is way to easy.  They need to worry about being more creative with there quests and add more content along with a degree of difficulty. 

  • xuitonxuiton ManchesterPosts: 133Member
    Originally posted by xoring

    Originally posted by xuiton


    They should of made STO a sandbox and maybe something simliar to WW2 online where player controlled space affects the boarders of the federation and klingon empire.

     

    Doesn't EVE already offer that?

     

    Yes but I am talking about actual system/planets being controlled were neutral or already controlled by federation/klingons.



    Like it any war, key points and cities are generally valuable targets.

     

    Personally i think the original team before cyprtic took it over were on the right track.

  • AnubisanAnubisan Boulder, COPosts: 1,801Member
    Originally posted by Falcomith


     I agree that there should be a death penalty. But not at this point. The game is way to easy.  They need to worry about being more creative with there quests and add more content along with a degree of difficulty. 

    Wouldn't adding a meaningful death penalty add at least SOME difficulty to the equasion?

  • FalcomithFalcomith Hastings, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by Anubisan

    Originally posted by Falcomith


     I agree that there should be a death penalty. But not at this point. The game is way to easy.  They need to worry about being more creative with there quests and add more content along with a degree of difficulty. 

    Wouldn't adding a meaningful death penalty add at least SOME difficulty to the equasion?

     

    Of course. But the issue is that its so easy right now, there really isnt a need for it. I have been playing since closed beta and maybe died twice, except when it came to PvP.

  • vectr0nevectr0ne Claremont, NCPosts: 1Member

     a death penalty would ruin this game for me there is no need for it but if there must be one then take a lesson from eve you have to start back at earth space dock or deepspace k7 or DS( whereever you last "checked in" possibly some kind of clone service

  • nikoliathnikoliath YPosts: 1,154Member
    Originally posted by Malickie


    Gotta love constructive criticism..
    One way in which to incorporate a death penalty would be to completely lose crew members. Either upfront, or over time creating a greater need to search out new crew as "reinforcements" should you need them.
    Losing ships would work as well, creating a better economy in the long run IMO. Can players sell ships at present?
    Stat decreasing is to arbitrary IMO, if they want meaningful, they need real loss.
    The option for perma death klingons? Give them greater stats than normal, yet the risk of dying one to many times could result in permanent death.
    A few ideas, though they would probably be viewed as too extreme.


    thats even less trek.... sorry Picard, you'll have to buy your own ship

  • xoringxoring Silver Spring, MDPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by xuiton

    Originally posted by xoring

    Originally posted by xuiton


    They should of made STO a sandbox and maybe something simliar to WW2 online where player controlled space affects the boarders of the federation and klingon empire.

     

    Doesn't EVE already offer that?

     

    Yes but I am talking about actual system/planets being controlled were neutral or already controlled by federation/klingons.



    Like it any war, key points and cities are generally valuable targets.

     

    Personally i think the original team before cyprtic took it over were on the right track.

     

    As I keep saying to people; if you like EVE, play EVE. That might have made it a better MMO, but it would have been less "Star Trek". There are other IP's that are focused around space war and battles like that, but to me Star Trek was never really about fighting a war, it just included some occasional skirmishes.

  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin SoCal, CAPosts: 3,033Member
    Originally posted by MikeB


    Star Trek Online Executive Producer Craig Zinkievich believes that Star Trek Online needs a more "meaningful" death penalty, according to a recent comment made to IncGamers.

     

    Needs a more meaningful one?  There isnt one!  This guy and Cryptic in general are full of out-of-touch cop-outs.  Now you think it needs a more meaningful death?  After a large portion of the community has bailed for one of numerous reasons?  Comon.

     

    For starters, how can you make an MMO/MMORPG where there is death penalty at all?  No joy in winning or sadness in losing? Without some penalty for losing, the pvp in the game becomes, and in this case, did become a mindless stupid gameplay environment that very little enjoys; again, which is the case today.

     

    The winners gain nothing in this game because their fallen opponents are right on their heels again, and the losers don’t care if they lose because it means nothing.

     

    The game is surrounded by pampered children, or adults with the mindset of entitlement and being a pampered child, and who don’t know what its like to actually accomplish something, but the expectation for everything to be handed to them.

     

    There is no reasonable complimentary opposite to winning in this so-called game. You win in space and on ground, you get a battery or such (a weak reward), you lose on space or on ground, you miraculously reappear next to the fight to battle like a button mashing mindless drone without consequences again.



    Lack of consequences to death has turned this title into a series of suicide runs for the same exact reward I get for battling tactically and strategically. The grossly equivalent rewards for those that die often are enough for anyone to leave this game.

    So yes, the lack of any penalty for being a suicide player is astounding. As a Klingon that must rely on pvp matches to level, when these suicide players enter a match just to roll into klingons without putting up any fight, but just to died repeatedly and quickly to get the match over so they can rinse and repeat, that’s considered good game-design and fair play at my game-play expense?

     

    How dumb many feel for absolutely no sense of accomplishment, but to be able to magically appear next to the battle within seconds of your ship being blown up, just to mash and combat more for the same reward as someone that didn't die at all or as often.

     

    There should be greater rewards for those that die less or not at all...more substantial and realizable rewards. There are several things missing, underwhelming and poorly implemented in STO, and this has got to rank at the top of the list. . .they, those that die purposely and repeatedly without consequence, advance their own rush for experience at others game-play and immersion expense are exasperating a real problem; they are rewarded handsomely for being losers; figuratively and literally by Cryptic.

     

  • wootinwootin none, MEPosts: 259Member

    If Craig wants all the ideas he could ever want, go look at the forums for cripes' sakes. We hashed through this very very well. My favorite scenario was a cutscene of your ship blasting out escape pods, you arriving at the nearest base and requisitioning a new ship according to the specs of your old one.

    Loot gear would be gone and you'd need to get some crew replacements to get up to your former ship's repair stats, but you'd be flying a nearly equal ship out in a few minutes or so. But it would be a DIFFERENT ship, even if it had the same name, and that would keep the immersion for you.

    I also favored possibly losing the use of an "injured" bridge officer or two while they were in sickbay, but that was deemed just tooo hardcore lol.

     Edit: forgot, if you got the ship blown up again, you'd be knocked back to your former class of ship until a replacement of your current class could be found. Still no permanent penalty, but you'd not be able to go all suicidey over and over to win a mission - one boom too many and you'd be in a ship which may not be able to do that mish.  The replacement time would be just exactly long enough to let the mission enemies reset, thereby defeating any exploit ;)

  • tort0429tort0429 New York City, NYPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by MikeB


    Star Trek Online Executive Producer Craig Zinkievich believes that Star Trek Online needs a more "meaningful" death penalty, according to a recent comment made to IncGamers.

    Mr. Zinkievich explains Cryptic Studios' stance on death penalties:

    I get that people want to feel a sense of risk when they’re fighting in battles, but if the only emotion you feel when you’re playing a game is fear that you’re going to lose some time due to an arbitrary gameplay mechanic, we’re probably not doing something right.

    However, Mr. Zinkievich does agree that Star Trek Online could use a more meaningful death penalty, adding:

    We are looking into finding a meaningful way to give players a deeper sense of loss when something bad happens. But we want it to feel right, rather than just like an arbitrary penalty.

    via IncGamers.

    So there you have it! What kind of death penalty do you think would be appropriate for Star Trek Online? Let us know in the comments below.

    NONE!! IT's perfect the way it is.    I love it when I see people say, I want to play something different, it's just the same ol same ol, then here comes STO, no death penalty (for a change) wow, you can actually have fun and not worry about paying money to fix your armor or something.   I think the death penalty should be left in real life, I'm playing a game, and have no need for it.  Especially since there is no penalty in death, you die, you die.   IN a game, there should be no death period.   You should lose the challenge.  In a bike race, do they shoot the losers?   But the losers still feel the sense of loss.  Believe me, If I'm trying to complete a mission and I die and have to start ALL OVER AGAIN, I feel the sense of loss.   Leave it as is CRYPTIC.   It's perfect.

  • wootinwootin none, MEPosts: 259Member
    Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

    Originally posted by MikeB


    Star Trek Online Executive Producer Craig Zinkievich believes that Star Trek Online needs a more "meaningful" death penalty, according to a recent comment made to IncGamers.

     

    Needs a more meaningful one?  There isnt one!  This guy and Cryptic in general are full of out-of-touch cop-outs.  Now you think it needs a more meaningful death?  After a large portion of the community has bailed for one of numerous reasons?  Comon.

     

    For starters, how can you make an MMO/MMORPG where there is death penalty at all?  No joy in winning or sadness in losing? Without some penalty for losing, the pvp in the game becomes, and in this case, did become a mindless stupid gameplay environment that very little enjoys; again, which is the case today.

     

    The winners gain nothing in this game because their fallen opponents are right on their heels again, and the losers don’t care if they lose because it means nothing.

     

    The game is surrounded by pampered children, or adults with the mindset of entitlement and being a pampered child, and who don’t know what its like to actually accomplish something, but the expectation for everything to be handed to them.

     

    There is no reasonable complimentary opposite to winning in this so-called game. You win in space and on ground, you get a battery or such (a weak reward), you lose on space or on ground, you miraculously reappear next to the fight to battle like a button mashing mindless drone without consequences again.



    Lack of consequences to death has turned this title into a series of suicide runs for the same exact reward I get for battling tactically and strategically. The grossly equivalent rewards for those that die often are enough for anyone to leave this game.

    So yes, the lack of any penalty for being a suicide player is astounding. As a Klingon that must rely on pvp matches to level, when these suicide players enter a match just to roll into klingons without putting up any fight, but just to died repeatedly and quickly to get the match over so they can rinse and repeat, that’s considered good game-design and fair play at my game-play expense?

     

    How dumb many feel for absolutely no sense of accomplishment, but to be able to magically appear next to the battle within seconds of your ship being blown up, just to mash and combat more for the same reward as someone that didn't die at all or as often.

     

    There should be greater rewards for those that die less or not at all...more substantial and realizable rewards. There are several things missing, underwhelming and poorly implemented in STO, and this has got to rank at the top of the list. . .they, those that die purposely and repeatedly without consequence, advance their own rush for experience at others game-play and immersion expense are exasperating a real problem; they are rewarded handsomely for being losers; figuratively and literally by Cryptic.

     

     

    Wow I should have read this before posting that last. Way before alaunch I started a thread about death penalties on their forums and postulated that without a meaningful penalty, Klingons would go suicidal as soon as they started to lose, because it's FRIGGIN' IN CHARACTER FOR KLINGONS lol.

    But you're saying it's the FEDDIES that do this instead? wow. I envisioned that in fleet actions Feddies - bad Feddies - might send a suicider or two in first  just to weaken key enemies enough for the rest of the fleet to easily tip the balance, but - dang.

  • TzetothTzetoth Santa Fe, NMPosts: 67Member

    I'm actually surprised at how much I like the game. I have two Klingon affiliated characters that I have a blast with, and I've almost entirely neglected my Federation character. Most of the people complaining are probably playing the game in some sort of "traditional" sense, e.g. bounce from mission to mission without reading the text- striving for that uber loot. The PvE grind is the absolute worst part of the game (themepark in the WoW mold). There are tons of groups advertising for players in the group finder, yet they'll complain about doing everything alone (even though the open instancing works nicely).

    For me, tweaking and cultivating a captain, ship, and bridge crew to your own unique playstyle and matching wits against other players is where the fun is. It feels great to rally your side and pull off a narrow win. A ton of options to customize, my only gripe is the lack of a skill reset.

    In my opinion, it's the WoW players who are negatively impacting the game. They think that was the first and only MMO, and everything should be exactly like it. Even though it has years of work, polish, and content added to it since release. While there are some people spending their time in main hubs answering questions, there are a bunch of kids and trolls just berating people to "Go back to WoW", "This isn't WoW LOL!!1", "WHERE IS MANKRIKS WIFE", etc. It's a bunch of people who can't get over WoW popping their cherry, and they're in a desperate grab for attention where they think WoW has become nostalgic already. Hint: it isn't, and in my eyes it never will be, get over it.

    Anyway, go on about death penalties, going to head back and continue having fun.

  • SoupgoblinSoupgoblin Dallas, TXPosts: 324Member
    Originally posted by Malacor


    i WOULD SAY FIRST MAKE A MEANINGFULL GROUP AND GRUP FIGHTR AND AGRO SYSTEM´,  THEN CARE FOR DEATH PENALTY
    as long as all npc shoot at the fist opponent and you are  sometimes insteant tost in a group a death panelty means noone will be first
    by the way what is the point in a forced group for missions like scan 5 astroids ?
    The complete group system need  changes .. and the way a group fught works first before you should consider penaltys

     

    Learn to use the team controls.

     

    In the social window go to team options and change option from open team to team invite.

    No more forced grouping.

     

    It helps to check out all the controls in a game when you start playing.

  • johnmatthaisjohnmatthais Florence, SCPosts: 2,663Member

     Why give a meaningful death penalty to a game that you hardly die in?

    No offense, I've been enjoying it. Just saying. It seems odd that they'd choose a death penalty over added difficulty...

  • trnqlChaostrnqlChaos Carmel, INPosts: 34Member

    Hey, how about you fix it so I don't warp into the middle of groups of instantly aggro'd fleets and blown apart, or fix the issue where my phaser doesn't fire every 3rd time (but uses a recharge cycle) or fix the issue where my shortcut bars (with attack macros) disappear every time I play (and cause me to die in combat) or stop the servers from crashing in the middle of missions.

     

    I'm glad you're looking to improve the game, but how about you fix the issues that cause players to die for stupid reasons before you penalize them for it. I'm all for a challenging MMO experience, but I should be penalized for my mistakes, not yours.

  • Kaynos1972Kaynos1972 Quebec, QCPosts: 2,316Member

    Why not simply copy what's been used in most mmo's, some sort of damage to your ship or your equipement if you die ?  Make them pay for repair, the more you die, the more it cost you to fix your ship or gears.

  • zartan5000zartan5000 Wichita, KSPosts: 44Member

    when you die for the first time you should get the instant option to cancel your subscription. By the time that happens you will have learned what a failure of a game this is and will want to quit anyway. move on to a better game and leave the sad, hardcore trekkies where they belong.

  • Lexe01Lexe01 Darkside of the moonPosts: 97Member

    Pitty the reviews are bad, looks like a 7/10 (a.k.a only for hardcore fans or trekkies). Looking for a new MMO but it won't be this one.

  • AmonSulAmonSul WarsawPosts: 80Member

    If STO had a balanced death penalty it would go long ways for not only immersion but also adding some meaning to all those PvP instances.

    Second step would be that the outcome of PvP instances had some bearing on some kind of evolving conflict. Right now it is just a space shooter with no sense or purpose at all.

  • Death1942Death1942 CanberraPosts: 2,587Member
    Originally posted by xoring


    Right now it's mostly just a respawn delay. Not a big deterrent. I like the "stranded in an escape pod until rescued" idea. Seems to fit with the IP. And also a longer wait to get back in the fray. Or maybe have to restart the mission from a checkpoint or something, lose some progress.
     
    Klingon are playable, just heavily PvP. Which is exactly how I would imagine the Klingon. In the IP they weren't really known for being great explorers or diplomats.

     

    you assume that most/all of the pve missions are diplomatic and cater to explorers...

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • AmonSulAmonSul WarsawPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by nekollx

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Meaningful death penalty? How about A death penalty.
    I'm not calling for anything too extreme, but there's got to be something.

     

    there is one, you crew is dammaged and that effects your shield and hull repair rate

     

    What? No there isnt. You respawn with full ship crew and shields.

  • pmontecipmonteci Montreal, QCPosts: 7Member

    What about loss of Skill point earned from that mission and maybe some ship damage that can only be repaired at a space station. 

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    I cant understand when people complain for the loss of death penalty. I have played many games with deathpenalty in different forms and never did any of those make the game more fun.As I see it loosing the batle is enough.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nikoliath

    Originally posted by Malickie


    Gotta love constructive criticism..
    One way in which to incorporate a death penalty would be to completely lose crew members. Either upfront, or over time creating a greater need to search out new crew as "reinforcements" should you need them.
    Losing ships would work as well, creating a better economy in the long run IMO. Can players sell ships at present?
    Stat decreasing is to arbitrary IMO, if they want meaningful, they need real loss.
    The option for perma death klingons? Give them greater stats than normal, yet the risk of dying one to many times could result in permanent death.
    A few ideas, though they would probably be viewed as too extreme.


    thats even less trek.... sorry Picard, you'll have to buy your own ship

    Maybe so, depending on how it's incorporated. There are ways around that though, rather than the player "buying" it they could simply be issued it, though there would be some penalty for doing so. Be it in currency, prestige, or something in lore with Trek. (Not being a fan of Trek, I can't say much about what's in with lore).

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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