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Is this PvP or PvE afterall? I am confused

galliard1981galliard1981 warszawaPosts: 256Member

Just now i have read some guy asking which game to choose AoC or DF. He said he loves AoC but his PvE servers are empty.

Now i began to think: dude, if you chose PvP game like conan, why the heck do you play on PvE server. Not much later a second thought: why ffs the developers advertise AoC as pvp focused game and put PvE servers at all? This is something my logic cannot comprehend.

Then, why people who buy AoC choose PvE servers? Why did they choose AoC if not for pvp? Is single player rpg not 20 times better than any mmo pve side? Cmon is really group boss rape that much fun?

Pretty philosophical thread, maybe some wise guy or gal can answer one of my questions, if not all. Feel free to share opinions and enlighten me.

 

Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos

Comments

  • SoupgoblinSoupgoblin Dallas, TXPosts: 324Member
    Originally posted by galliard1981


    Just now i have read some guy asking which game to choose AoC or DF. He said he loves AoC but his PvE servers are empty.
    Now i began to think: dude, if you chose PvP game like conan, why the heck do you play on PvE server. Not much later a second thought: why ffs the developers advertise AoC as pvp focused game and put PvE servers at all? This is something my logic cannot comprehend.
    Then, why people who buy AoC choose PvE servers? Why did they choose AoC if not for pvp? Is single player rpg not 20 times better than any mmo pve side? Cmon is really group boss rape that much fun?
    Pretty philosophical thread, maybe some wise guy or gal can answer one of my questions, if not all. Feel free to share opinions and enlighten me.
     

     

    You have stumbled upon an interesting conundrum....

    But it could be the simplest answer....

    Funcom and it's fans could be just extremely confused about what they want.

  • IKShadowIKShadow LjubljanaPosts: 776Member

    There is no  conundrum.

    On PvE server you can PvP in:

    - Border kingdoms ( where sieges & pvp mats are )

    - Minigames



    On PvP server you can PvP:

    - Everywhere except 3 major cities ( those are without mobs just NPCs like traders, trainers etc... )



    Not many people can handle PvP in AoC as the major rule is if you see someone coming he will attack you in 90% of cases if you see 2+ coming you will be attacked 100%.



    Few of my friends just started to play AoC ( i had 1 year break but now Iam back ) and they are like wtf this is like some FPS game when it comes to PvP.  I played a lot of MMO's and in AoC there is definitely most PvP.



    In lineage 2 that have FFA there was not so much PvP you could level normally without being worried of attack.  ( at least till C2 then I quit it )



    In Darkfall there was full loot so a lot of players just avoided you as they did not wanna loose items.



    In Eve Online well its similiar imagine AoC is just one big 0.0. space and you are jumping in area where enemy alliance is controling it.

     

    p.s. The reason that AoC have so much PvP is that for every Player Kill you get PvP XP and if you die you do not loose anything ( except your PvP stats )

     

     

     



     

     

     

    Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]

  • finaticdfinaticd transient, AKPosts: 843Member

    AoC changed gears and gravitated towards PvE. So the bulk of the players are now PvE players.  Things like an inferior PvP system, sieges crashing and lagging, and restrictions on world PvP - (guards/ ganking penalties) drove off many PvP focused players so yeah there is not much of a difference today.  Also the game is still content lite and PvP focused players are usually on the hard core end so they may have just done everything and got bored and moved on.

    The consensus is not much PvP goes on at PvE servers but the only difference today is PvP servers can do world PvP in restricted areas in one zone Kesh and level 25 twinks can gank on white sands. At release there was unrestricted PvP all over but now that it has been curbed is very little difference aside from PvE servers seeming to have way larger populations.

    IDK why so many people play this for PvE only, the big PvE games WoW, EQ 1 and 2 and LOTR all had around four times the PvE and end game content that AoC does today, within two years of release...going by grouping instances and especially raids.

    Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
    impairment testing. This process has led to
    recognition of an impairment loss of around
    3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
    numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
    http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427

  • HoobleyHoobley LancasterPosts: 421Member

    If I remember correctly, AoC was slated to be a PvE game early in it's development.

    PvP was only added in later due to the high demand from the community.

  • pmaurapmaura Orlando, COPosts: 515Member

     

    While there is a lot of PVP in AOC it is not a PVP game. There is only one mini game map that anyone plays the hollowed vaults, sieges only take place between guilds.

    The PVP system is no where near as fleshed out as Warhammer or even WoW for that matter. you have 80 regular levels and 5 pvp. and those 5 pvp can take as long to get as to max out your level 80.

    The new expansion only pushes the pve content.

  • NeblessNebless Hammond, ORPosts: 939Member Common
    Originally posted by Hoobley


    If I remember correctly, AoC was slated to be a PvE game early in it's development.



     

    Really?  I would have thought - knowing the Conan books - that it would have been built as a Pvp game.  Interesting.

    To the OP:

    From what I've seen and read; Pvp really isn't Pvp but either ganking or just the 'I'm better than you - being a gazzilion levels higher has nothing to do with it :-)' e-peen stroking.

    Players talk about how great Pvp'ers they are - then you find out that they mean 'only when I'm max level, with 6 of my buddies, beating a solo level 1'.  Or check most Pvp leaning game forums and find the 'why not hide all stat's while Pvp'ing thread.  Atleast 1 of the answers will be 'but then I won't know if I can win or not'.

    Can't think of too many players that enjoy fighting a MOB, finally winning, being low on health and then have someone backstab you 1 shot dead as enjoyable Pvp.

    I will say that my son has found this game to be slightly different, since in OT almost all the high level players ignore him and other lower levels as it's not 'being sporting?' to gank them.  They seem to fight each other and allow the low levels the time to grow.

    SWG - AoC - PotBS - DDO - LotRO - STO - GnH - SWToR

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hoobley


    If I remember correctly, AoC was slated to be a PvE game early in it's development.
    PvP was only added in later due to the high demand from the community.

     

    Sorry but that's not correct, the original design they talked about was all about PVP, the border kingdoms were supposed to be the meat and potatoes of the game. I remember reading articles about being able to own land and fight over it, players were supposed to be able to be lords and own kingdoms. Wars were supposed wage over things like resources, which would make certain player owned areas more valuable, creating more of a reason to fight over them.

    Why that got scrapped I have no clue, the design changed to a more PVE focused game, not the other way around.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • svarteryttarsvarteryttar StockholmPosts: 36Member

    Lots of players like PvP but whant to chose when to PvP and not all the time. In AoC PvP servers people attack you even in quest animations so there is a very good explanation why you would like to play on a PvE server but still like to play PvP content.

    ATM though Funcom are still on the wrong path for attracting the larger part of the MMOers that play casual style and dont whant to find a group just becouse they whant to do a battleground (minigame in AoC). Since grouping up for PvP is so much more affective in AoC compared to many slower paced MMO's they should have seperated PUG and Premades a year back (or more). They will probably get it right but to far down the road I'm affraid. Also the PvP content is crap, just running around killing the first person you see in the world isnt my idea of meaningfull PvP (this you cant do on a PvE server ofc).

    http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=1548671&postcount=16

    The lack of accessible, interresting and even PvP is what keeps Age of Conan back from climbing in subcribers.

    Played WoW for 3 years on Runetotem (chars: Ariman and Redsonja)
    Played AoC for 2 years on Crom (char: Kallisto) and Fury (char: Siratsia)
    Playing SWTOR on Tomb of Freedon Nadd

  • tryklontryklon PortoPosts: 1,370Member

     I see AoC much more like a PvE game than PvP.

    For starters I play on a PvE server so the PvP is extremelly rare except for the minigames, second because the PvP content in this game is very poor and repetitive.

    Now, the PvE side is excellent, with loads of quests while leveling, many dungeons, a compelling destiny story to follow, a very well designed world and a bigger focus on raids and dungeons as endgame.

     

    AoC was made as a PvE game, and before launch everybody heard around forums, this included, that Age of COnan would be a great PvE game, while Warhammer was being made towards a PvP focus. 

    This is in my opinion, and much like WoW, a PvE game with some PvP, mainly in instaced battlegrounds who get boring pretty fast. ANd I honestly think it should remain this way.

    Focus and get better in PvE and forget PvP. Wow got to 11,5 millions and never needed to increase its pretty low pvp focus...

    image

  • svarteryttarsvarteryttar StockholmPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by tryklon


     Wow got to 11,5 millions and never needed to increase its pretty low pvp focus...



     

    I have to disagree. I think wow became what it is today becouse of its fairly even and balanced and very simple but clear PvP battlegrounds (as well as the fair arena handicap system). With out it its subcribers would have declined in between the expansions.

    Good or at least ok:ish PvP is the bread and butter of any MMO. This is as much true on a PvE server as on a PvP server.

    Played WoW for 3 years on Runetotem (chars: Ariman and Redsonja)
    Played AoC for 2 years on Crom (char: Kallisto) and Fury (char: Siratsia)
    Playing SWTOR on Tomb of Freedon Nadd

  • tryklontryklon PortoPosts: 1,370Member
    Originally posted by svarteryttar

    Originally posted by tryklon


     Wow got to 11,5 millions and never needed to increase its pretty low pvp focus...



     

    I have to disagree. I think wow became what it is today becouse of its fairly even and balanced and very simple but clear PvP battlegrounds (as well as the fair arena handicap system). With out it its subcribers would have declined in between the expansions.

    Good or at least ok:ish PvP is the bread and butter of any MMO. This is as much true on a PvE server as on a PvP server.

     

    Each one to it's own. I personally dont think an mmoRPG, like in Roleplaying Game, should have a PvP focus.

    A roleplaying game should be a multiplayer experience based on a virtual world, rich in story and lore where people can socialize and explore, and this is what I always saw in wow.

    Plus, wow's expansion began in vanilla, where the game got to 6 million even before the launch of arenas. In fact the game had a huge reception at launch where there werent even battlegrounds available, they came only in patch 1.6. So, to say wow got its growth from pvp is a big lie.

     

    Like I said, the key to sucess lies in PVE and wow shows everyone that. Every single game launched with pvp focus or without a clear line saying it's focus towards pvp or pve failed. And will continue to do so....

     

    I like pvp, but not on an rpg.... A piece of advice, If you are a PvP lover go play a good FPS like Modern Warfare or COunter Strike, those are clearly pvp focused and alot more balanced

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tryklon



     

    Each one to it's own. I personally dont think an mmoRPG, like in Roleplaying Game, should have a PvP focus.

    A roleplaying game should be a multiplayer experience based on a virtual world, rich in story and lore where people can socialize and explore, and this is what I always saw in wow.

    Plus, wow's expansion began in vanilla, where the game got to 6 million even before the launch of arenas. In fact the game had a huge reception at launch where there werent even battlegrounds available, they came only in patch 1.6. So, to say wow got its growth from pvp is a big lie.

     

    Like I said, the key to sucess lies in PVE and wow shows everyone that. Every single game launched with pvp focus or without a clear line saying it's focus towards pvp or pve failed. And will continue to do so....

     

    I like pvp, but not on an rpg.... A piece of advice, If you are a PvP lover go play a good FPS like Modern Warfare or COunter Strike, those are clearly pvp focused and alot more balanced

     

    That's your personal feeling so I can't say much in regard to that. However from my perspective, I feel completely opposite. I prefer a PVP focus in MMO's it makes the world feel more alive, as in your enemy is a thinking, talking, living entity with their own agenda (to win). Especially in the area of medieval fantasy, nothing gives off the feeling of  a dark war torn environment, better than a ffa PVP world space.

    I like the feeling of building a guild, or joining one that has a powerful presence in their environment. PVE focused games have never made me feel as though I was a part of something epic. The worlds always feel to static and predictable. When all of your content is based around AI, there's no feeling of having a real enemy, or a real sense of danger around you. When your content is based around guilds, warring and real people, it feels a lot more worldly IMO. The tensions are real, which adds significantly to the immersion of being a part of a real environment.

    You can't get this from games like COD4, Battlefield or any other FPS. They are even more static than your typical PVE based MMO.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • svarteryttarsvarteryttar StockholmPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by tryklon
    Plus, wow's expansion began in vanilla, where the game got to 6 million even before the launch of arenas. In fact the game had a huge reception at launch where there werent even battlegrounds available, they came only in patch 1.6. So, to say wow got its growth from pvp is a big lie.



     

    Yeah true but I didnt say that wow got its growth from PvP but I said it remained big becouse of the PvP. What do people do when they have finished the PvE content and dont whant or dont have time for raids all the evenings/weeks, they PvP. So when the majority thinks of leaving an MMO becouse they feels they hit the wall there is still PvP until the next ex-pac. This isnt true in a game like AoC where the accessibility of sigies are even more remote to most typical gamers (casual players who have like 1-2 hrs) then a typical raidrun since the sieges are inbetween guilds (and the extra invited friends) and they are typically on the off-times like 24:00-0200 am or 0900 on a saturday morning etc.

    AoC has a need for larger battleground instanced PvP but Funcom disagrees and that is why in my own oppinion that the game will not grow to its full potential. The expansion wont make a difference, it will make some people coma back and try the game and then leave again.

    The PUG versus the Premade debate that totally kills all minigames is one more of those factors that is keeping the game from expanding in numbers.

    But its funcoms game so one just have to take it or leave it.

    Played WoW for 3 years on Runetotem (chars: Ariman and Redsonja)
    Played AoC for 2 years on Crom (char: Kallisto) and Fury (char: Siratsia)
    Playing SWTOR on Tomb of Freedon Nadd

  • AceundorAceundor OsloPosts: 482Member
    Originally posted by svarteryttar


    Yeah true but I didnt say that wow got its growth from PvP but I said it remained big becouse of the PvP. What do people do when they have finished the PvE content and dont whant or dont have time for raids all the evenings/weeks, they PvP. So when the majority thinks of leaving an MMO becouse they feels they hit the wall there is still PvP until the next ex-pac. This isnt true in a game like AoC where the accessibility of sigies are even more remote to most typical gamers (casual players who have like 1-2 hrs) then a typical raidrun since the sieges are inbetween guilds (and the extra invited friends) and they are typically on the off-times like 24:00-0200 am or 0900 on a saturday morning etc.



     

    I think you are comparing apples with oranges here. The typical casual player who has a couple of hours inbetween, will hardly ever finish all the PVE content. Therefore a fully built PVP environment in a MMO is not that important for such players. It simply ads flavour to the gameplay and some additional excitement.

    Focusing on PVE is most important for a MMO that wants to cater for the more casual player. However having your l33t players that PVP all the time is also important as they show off videos and they add a lot to the community in form of drama and competition. They are the ones who will leave the game if there isnt enough PVP content, however they are not the big "cash cow" group of players and therefore prioritized lower than the casual PVE focused player, who enjoys the occational PVP. 

    I think Craig Morrison got his priorities right. I also think that PVP players will receive more content in future patches, however they will make sure the PVE crowd is happy before they work on the PVP part.  

    Originally posted by BishopB:

    Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?

  • svarteryttarsvarteryttar StockholmPosts: 36Member

    I dont know you might be right but then again I always considered myself a casual player being a father of 2 small children and not haveing so much consequative time and only whanting to play 1-2 hrs in each session but most of the time being forced to play for 4 hrs when raiding just becouse there is either that way or "no way". But I do play like minimum 15 hrs a week when I sub to a MMO (dont know what is casual and I have never seen a figure on it), so that makes me finish PvE content eventually and then I have the PvP to kick back to.

    I think this thread summerize pretty much what's the problem with AoC and casual PvP gaming. I played AoC for 1,5 year before I quit it and I was on the loosing PUG end for years and countless minigames and I saw so meny players quiting and giving up, and 100 of threads (1000 of posts) like this one that is completly new. Nothing have changed and it wont as long as Craig is GD in AoC. It scares away the casual players and that is why I would never recommend AoC to a beginner "casual" player. Why make it so hard on the player base that is there potential expanding market? It was hard on those not in the big Seiging guilds one year back and now it's not easier.

    http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=141302

    Played WoW for 3 years on Runetotem (chars: Ariman and Redsonja)
    Played AoC for 2 years on Crom (char: Kallisto) and Fury (char: Siratsia)
    Playing SWTOR on Tomb of Freedon Nadd

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