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When Wanting Profit Turns to Greed
Simsu
Member UncommonPosts: 386
I'm betting that there would be a whole lot of pissed of people if a restaurant opened up and tried to charge people a Membership fee, Table Usage fee, Silverware/Napkin fee, and Bathroom fee. And I'm betting they'd be even more pissed off if they only found out about some of these fees after they had already walked in, sat down, and started eating...
While it may be true that every company wants to make a profit that fact alone does not constitute a valid argument against the people who are saying that Subs+Micro payments+Adventure packs+whatever = greed. It doesn't matter how people want to try and spin the subject there are always going to be people who are going to refuse to buy a product and call a company greedy (e.g. nickel and dime) when they put out a product that has all the basic costs that every other similar product has plus extra costs on top of it.
To be honest I'm amazed that so many people are "ok" with companies moving away from a subs only payment system to a Subs+Micro payments+Adventure packs+whatever payment system. I could somewhat understand it if the products where vastly superior but to put it simply they're not. All these extra fees are being charged for things that have always been free in subscription based MMOs and thats not good for us, the consumers.
I'm a little disappointed with MMORPG.com for not commenting on the movement by companies to try to charge more for the same/less. If this is a site for the community (and not the developers) I'd expect that they would bring stuff like this up. And I'd hope that we, the community, would support them for doing so.
Comments
It actually is becoming a growing tend and more and more people are realizing it everyday, if this is the future i think we can all enjoy the last era of games before this genre is dead.
/signed.
I do not and will not support RMT ever, I play only subscription games and I will cease playing online games entirly at the point RMT is inescapable.
We can do one better, Gabby go drag this genre behind the shed... I'll be there in a minute just gotta grab my
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I completely agree and this nickle and dimeing thats going on by the MMO companies just have to stop.
I hope that people won't pay extra for every little thing like server changes that should be included in the monthly fee.
I mean we pay money each month to access these servers but have to pay extra money to transfer from one server to the next?
That just stinks!
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
If you follow mmorpg.com closely you know they are in favorite of these developments well most of them anyway.
But many here are not happy with how its direction of mmo's and games withDLC is going far from it i think many already seeking games that dont have micro/DLC or extra bullshit money grabbing basterd pull out of there head.
But problem also is a small portion of gamers community comes to forums and mass just take it as it is so our opinions are not heared and very welcome.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Regardless of the nickel and diming, video games are a ridiculously cheap hobby per month when it looks into cost and if you think about cost/hour it is absurdly cheap.
You ski as a hobby and you spend way more money for the time. You play golf, it is an exorbitant amount of money, upwards of 40-50 for 5 hours of entertainment on a cheap 18 hole golf course.
Yes, the companies seem to be trying to get money from every which way and that is their right.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If you follow mmorpg.com closely you know they are in favorite of these developments well most of them anyway.
But many here are not happy with how its direction of mmo's and games withDLC is going far from it i think many already seeking games that dont have micro/DLC or extra bullshit money grabbing basterd pull out of there head.
But problem also is a small portion of gamers community comes to forums and mass just take it as it is so our opinions are not heared and very welcome.
I believe these micro payments wont kill the genre, ppl already have started to accept paying for cosmetic things, which I really do not understand, yes its "only" cosmetic but that is important to an MMO, so should be added through content nm if its a quest or you had them through a kill....somehow like the idea of a cosmetic reward for first time kills. and if it doesnt fit into the gameplay, it doesnt belong in the game.
over all completely agree microtransactions doesnt belong in sub based MMOs....and reading FFXIV will have them really hurted my anticipation of that game.
video games are cheap but to me the RMTs ruin the gaming world. sub based should be sub based only.....Id much rather know this game will cost 18$/month than buy the game pay my sub then learn oh have to pay for my sword or gun in game too ?!? (no matter if that sword is cosmetic or needed for progression, if progression Id ask for my money back)
Already confirmed FFXIV wont have any type of micro payments... i cant think of the interview page but ill try to find it been ages since i read it.
Yes I do agree alot of companies are becoming increasingly greedy.
I have noticed that there have been a lot of MMORPG.com talk in regards to F2P and "other" payment models as possibly being the future or at least a viable alternative (and I'm being polite when I put it that neutral). And to be honest I have no problem with F2P models that have micro transactions or even games that have subs _or_ a pay as you go system. However what we're starting to see is the combo of all the payment types into a "Subs Plus" payment system where full price subs required and then micro payments for "Standard Content" plus indications that companies are wanting to start charging for their regular content updates as "Adventure Packs"
All I've seen so far from MMORPG.com as it relates to this new "Subs Plus" payment scheme is a few stories that have "deflected" some of the criticism of "Subs Plus" away from the companies who are doing it.
I personally like the MT method and have nothing against a game using both subs and MTs.
My issue is with games that are solely sub, suddenly getting shops out of nowhere. They should be designed from the start to have a shop if that is what the developer wants, not tacked on afterwards.
i myself am guilty of buying cosmetic items in f2p mmos. Not all, but some. i have played a TON over the last few years and now i only play a handful of them ... and these were the good ones. I will be quick to buy a cosmtic item such as an awesome mount, pet, weapon or armor so long as i like it. i see it as it doesn's always have to have a significant impact on the game as a whole but if it's entertaining to me then so be it. it has to be something REALLY good in order for me to buy it though.
~i'd rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in~
That's why only rich bobo's play on those golf cources and the average person isn't even able to apply for a membership.
The average person (me) just buys a nice golf set and goes to one of the free public golf courses and have fun there with other people who actually play golf (instead of showing off in the most expensive stuff and sit in the club lounge drinking congac like on those golf courses you mention).
i couldn't agree more. If the shop comes out like 3 months after the game or as an update or some BS like that all its saying is "hey we are cheap and greedy, hook us up with cash". i swear developers think the gamers are the dumb ones... *sigh*
~i'd rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in~
The key with what you said is that those were f2p games. Not subscription games who were selling basic content (cosmetic or not) in micro payments on top of their subscription fees.
The whole point is that if people and the community websites don't speak up about it (vocally and with their wallets) then sooner or later all MMOs will be designed this way and we'll be paying to access each race or for patches that are called "adventure packs".
I just read that Bobby Kotick is sitting on a mountain of ... 3.1 billion dollars cash.
Over 2010 he will be adding another 1 billion from buying back their own stock.
So it is very clear Bobby wants more ... cash.
Hence that new COD MMO subscription money coming in 2012.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/187939-activision-blizzard-inc-q4-2009-earnings-call-transcript?source=feed&page=1
I love the man's smile:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1410824255&__source=aol|headline|quote|video|&par=aol
Don't you think he's cute ...
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
That's why only rich bobo's play on those golf cources and the average person isn't even able to apply for a membership.
The average person (me) just buys a nice golf set and goes to one of the free public golf courses and have fun there with other people who actually play golf (instead of showing off in the most expensive stuff and sit in the club lounge drinking congac like on those golf courses you mention).
I had to check your profile to see where you lived after reading this. Here in the states public courses are less expensive and don't require you to be a member, but they are anything but free. (At least 30 bucks US for 18 holes, and if you want a cart, add another 20 or so.)
But regardless, what most people complaining about the new MT charges are forgetting is that MMO's are costing more and more to develop each year. In the old days they'd shove one out the door for 10-20M. Nowadays 100M or more is not uncommon and some are reportedly going for up to 250M
Combine that with the "known" trend of the past few years where most of us rush to the game the first month, then 2/3rd leave almost immediately and never pay a sub, how are companies supposed to recover their costs?
By adding MT of course. Especially when the companies know we''re more than willing to pay for it. Sure, not all of you are, but you are in the minority and as we know, the big houses are making games that cater to the majority.
MT is the future folks ,you'd better get used to it or you won't be playing anything.
And they won't miss you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I had to check your profile to see where you lived after reading this. Here in the states public courses are less expensive and don't require you to be a member, but they are anything but free. (At least 30 bucks US for 18 holes, and if you want a cart, add another 20 or so.)
But regardless, what most people complaining about the new MT charges are forgetting is that MMO's are costing more and more to develop each year. In the old days they'd shove one out the door for 10-20M. Nowadays 100M or more is not uncommon and some are reportedly going for up to 250M
Combine that with the "known" trend of the past few years where most of us rush to the game the first month, then 2/3rd leave almost immediately and never pay a sub, how are companies supposed to recover their costs?
By adding MT of course. Especially when the companies know we''re more than willing to pay for it. Sure, not all of you are, but you are in the minority and as we know, the big houses are making games that cater to the majority.
MT is the future folks ,you'd better get used to it or you won't be playing anything.
And they won't miss you.
I dont mind paying for things that are worth it but if it is going to be the sub+mt+action packs model then the standards are going to have to be raised. I understand the rising cost of making a MMO but if they are going to ask more of me then i expect the same in return. I am definately not against a company recouping costs so they can reinvest in their own games or new titles but...No more half assed customer support, bug fixes, piss poor content, laggy servers etc. I am not an elitist dick that expects everything perfect all the time i understand that you can never catch everything. But i have expectations for my money and i am going to expect more if they are going to ask more.
Greed can be a pretty subjective word. Would you go to work and not expect to be paid for your time? I think not. Well then why would you expect to get anything for free? While I'm sure some companies can be "greedy" with the way they do some of the things they do, I just can't bring myself to blanket an entire industry as "Greedy" just because they want to sell something they worked on. Now the banking industry, well that's another story but the gaming industry? Please.....
Times are hard as we all know, but the free lunch mentality of the gaming community has got to change. People get paid to make adventure packs so it costs someone something to make that pack for you. I don't believe that the sub costs can offset the development costs for something that's not quite big enough to call an expansion but not quite small enough to give away either. So you get to pay for it, or not. In the one case I saw come my way in the form of an adventure pack, I remember it being optional, just like things that are in the micro transaction stores. That means you don't need it to play the game, it won't affect your current experience if you choose to boycott it and your not forced to pay for it. So greed as a motive just doesn't work.
The defense of "I pay my monthly fee to play so I should not have to pay again" just doesn't work either. Most MMO's are $15 a month to play. Roughly $0.50 a day it costs to play. That's not much when you think about how you can not even buy a cola for that anymore. There are overhead costs in running a company, and that goes for business' in every industry. Greed doesn't drive everyone, it's just an easy excuse to use when people don't agree with other peoples business models.
hope its true and it the guy didnt use the right words in his interview.
its been in writing and in interviews that they are working on a new payment model instead of the current 1..3...6 month plans. could be he didnt explain himself well since he aint english....but is what he said they would have monthly fee + micro payment for things ppl may want during their game.
edit: looking for a link to it I saw they dont talk english at all p so would be bad translation rather than bad english ;P
I think one thing that bothers people is that these are persistent worlds and people make an investment of their time in developing their characters. If you know what the fees are in advance, that should be fine so that you can decide if you want to put your time into that game. But after you have hundreds of hours into your character, you don't want to hear "oh by the way, here are a bunch of additional fees you never saw coming."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
/signed
Think I've made it clear more than once in both STO and EQ2 forums that a company shoudl stick to either subscription or itemshop to get their profit from the game. Doing both is okay if the subscription is substantionally lower than the normal 15 bucks.
If a company wants to use both, I will either use the subscription only, or stay away from the game at a whole. I'd rather support a 100% subscription game or a 100% itemshop game. Not a 100% hybrid charging top of both.
*NOTE: Server transfer and character changes are no itemshop to me. They are services outside the game.
*NOTE 2: Not sure what to think of the Aion valentine hearts. IMO those are just a pathetic display of greed and my guess is that no one will have bought them (sorry for the dev's efforts though - they should have made the hearts a dropped item since they do absolutely nothing)
Stick with korean games where they only charge monthly fee, not even the x-pack... well at least in Lineage2 days... with this Aion crap things have changed =(
Well, what really annoys me, and someone already said, while the price is rising the quality of the product is decreasing, sure we are getting beautifull GFX, and maybe thats where 2/3 of the money is going, but about gameplay/support/stability is going downhill, i dare to say you lil genre spend too much time admiring the beauty of FPS games and didnt the crappy side of the lack of innovation in gameplay.
but well back on topic... down with greedy policy against the customer, FIGHT THE POWER!!!
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
If people stop using the cash shops or stores then the companies wont have them, but unf too mnay people use them. IMO For a F2P is fine but not for a subscriber based game.
(BBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH waits patiently for WOD mmo!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes