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Entropia Universe: Catching Up With Entropia

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Comments

  • dudenukedudenuke seattle, WAPosts: 10Member

    I recently decided to try the free play version of EU.  I cant even validate my user name on the account appliction to create an account.  I have played around 15-20 different mmos. I know exactly how to setup an accounts. Should be easy right? wrong. So i emailed mindark about the issue no reply yet of course.  They are too busy watching viral videos and playing there own mmos at work like most tech support.

    Then i acually I went to launch the game client which came up in windowed mode.  I clicked create an account and upon minimizing the game client i got a ginormous error. An error for simply minimizing a windowed game? Lame lame lame. Very dissapointed. And i am increasingly getting dissapointed with shotty, crappy, poorly built games such as this with very to little tech support.

    Well theres my experience with EU and im going to uninstall before i even play it.

    Just pathetic.

  • MarineBoyMarineBoy London, ONPosts: 27Member Uncommon

     Entropia is not just a game is also an adventure and a business at the same time. But the good think is that it is whatever you want to make out of it. The mistake most people do and what dissapoints them most of the time is that they come in the game with the mirage that is free and that they could make money of it. Nothing less true. Even though is possible to hit the jackpot this should not become a scope per se otherwise you're not different than an addicted gambler who loses his fortune at La Vegas. Game is free but you need to pay in order to buy and maintain things and tools. This is the game's mechanic and you better like it or leave it otherwise. With other games you pay subscription, here is just different.

     

    Entropia is fairly different than other games also in terms of character evolution as it doesn't have levels and the only way you can get experience in any domain (and there are lots) is by doing those things. There are no quests or missions others than the ones you set for yourself. The graphics after the Cry2 upgrade are super cool. You can see your character's shadow moving opposite the light source as you run, you have moving clouds, moons, wind and beautiful landscapes and the best part is that you can continuousely move where ever you want in any direction without being limited to maps, realms or whatever they might be called. You can go from one coast to the other in one single (long though) trip and you will not see anything repeating. It is trully the only game that really feels as one single Universe running on one server more than even in EVE where you still need to go through Jump Gates from one place to the other. Not in Entropia though, here is one hell of a journey only that you are on foot!

     

    Try it and be smart.

    Nice walk and running and hunting.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NetBlaise


     I haven't played a game yet where the graphics made me say Wow. We have all these new graphics cards out and really don't have any game that uses half of a video cards power. I may download Entropia again and see what the graphics look like. I just wish a Game Deveolper  would come out with a game that has out of this world graphics/gameplay/ and a never ending story.

    FFXIV is attempting it.They will have the graphics and the story,but game play i don't know,will have to wait and see.Square usually delivers solid game play,nothing easy,always challenging,this time around however they were aiming for detail and casual,so might be a flop.

    As to the screen shots i saw,Entropia's new engine had some nice looks.


    Samoan Diamond

  • batolemaeusbatolemaeus SchellhornPosts: 2,061Member

    This "game" needs to die to be honest.
    It's a ponzi scheme. That's all there is. It's a ponzi scheme mixed with gambling games, wrapped into a 3d engine to look like a game.

    Every single mechanic in Entropia consists of gambling with money. You put some money into the mining one armed bandit, wait, and hope for a win. If not, you sink more and more coins into it hoping for the jackpot.
    The same is true for hunting animals. You invest money into it, every try at the loot slot machine costs money. If you're lucky, you win something. Usually you lose.

    What's even more terrible however, is that rewards are balanced in the same way as electronic slot machines work. No, you winning is never random. It's carefully calculated, and chances increase and decrease as you play to keep you in the game. If you're statistically close to quitting, it will throw a few meaningless rewards at you.

  • two2litrestwo2litres sydneyPosts: 50Member

    I love entropia. It's a great MMORPG, infact i would venture to say it is the only truly great sandbox MMORPG in existance - it actually feels like a living, breathing virtual world where players can shape almost every aspect of it however they see fit, depending on how determined they are.

    To the bloke who claims you'll need 15 dollars an hour to play entropia; you are an idiot. I was self sustainable within my first month with a 50 dollar investment - that was a year ago. If anything you'll need less money to play than traditional subscription fee static world games, if you play smart that is.

    I'll agree, the game is hard to get your head around; but this is a good thing. The level of freedom is such that you are just overwhelmed at the beginning. My advice tho, is to search out some good tutorials (like any other game) and study them, decide what you want achieved and go for it.

     

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by two2litres


    I love entropia. It's a great MMORPG, infact i would venture to say it is the only truly great sandbox MMORPG in existance - it actually feels like a living, breathing virtual world where players can shape almost every aspect of it however they see fit, depending on how determined they are.
    To the bloke who claims you'll need 15 dollars an hour to play entropia; you are an idiot. I was self sustainable within my first month with a 50 dollar investment - that was a year ago. If anything you'll need less money to play than traditional subscription fee static world games, if you play smart that is.
    I'll agree, the game is hard to get your head around; but this is a good thing. The level of freedom is such that you are just overwhelmed at the beginning. My advice tho, is to search out some good tutorials (like any other game) and study them, decide what you want achieved and go for it.

     

    What complete nonsense, just another come on to get you to lose your money.  Anyone touting this game has one interest for others to inject money into this game.  Only fools listen to them.

  • nyxiumnyxium Posts: 1,222Member Uncommon

    Danger, Will Robinson, danger. Spam detected!

    image
  • patrikd23patrikd23 GBGPosts: 1,155Member
    Originally posted by two2litres


    I love entropia. It's a great MMORPG, infact i would venture to say it is the only truly great sandbox MMORPG in existance - it actually feels like a living, breathing virtual world where players can shape almost every aspect of it however they see fit, depending on how determined they are.
    To the bloke who claims you'll need 15 dollars an hour to play entropia; you are an idiot. I was self sustainable within my first month with a 50 dollar investment - that was a year ago. If anything you'll need less money to play than traditional subscription fee static world games, if you play smart that is.
    I'll agree, the game is hard to get your head around; but this is a good thing. The level of freedom is such that you are just overwhelmed at the beginning. My advice tho, is to search out some good tutorials (like any other game) and study them, decide what you want achieved and go for it.

     



     

    Your the idiot,  you dont get far on 50 dollars. Hardly even any gear atleast. And if you think you need less money than other subgames then your definetly a moron and should not be posting at all until you got facts. You can play the game for free also.

    Just log in and stand in a town and chat, that way it dont cost you anything, haha.

    I been playing Entropia since 2003 and I know what I am talking about and you DONT. Back in the day 50 dollars would be ok to play with. But now you lose almost 50 % of what you put into every hunt. So do dont come here and say I am the idiot because you obviously dont know what the hell youre talking about. Or youre just a Mindark employee that is trying to make people start playing the game.

    30 dollars is what I hunt for when I used to hunt, and I 95 % of the times lost over 50 % of that money.  So Iike I said before dont start playing this game unless you prepared to lose money.

  • ALEXAROTHALEXAROTH BucharestPosts: 4Member

    Well I am sorry to say but in that case you are part of those that help other break even or profit. Like me. I've been playing this game for over 3 year now. I only deposited 10$ (and I didn't need those either it was to verify my credit card). I worked pretty hard but I can sustain myself almost every hunt round or mining trip. That means I break even or profit slightly at least. If you want to play this game free you have to be smart. If you want to make a profit, you got to be smarter and make a small investment. If you want to make a living, you got to be very smart and make a big investment (over 30k dollars). There are a lot of people (I personally know) that  make  A LIVING out of this game. Yes, they play EU to put food on their table, or in Neverdie's case, to get a house or a brand new Hummer or smth like that. Why do u think The Buzz paid 330k dollars on a land area ? Because he is rich ? No he isn't that rich IRL I think but he is smart and he knows he will get his money back. In fact, everyone knows he'll recoup in 1-2 years and then make a good living out of this game.

     

    Pozny scheme ? Yes, for those that don't know what to hunt or what gear to use or spend money on stupid unnecessary items.  And to you all there that whine that you loose 50% on a hunt ! THANK YOU ALL ! Those 50% go to MA and people like me, witch play smart. Of course if everyone would play smart, no one would win. MA has to profit so we would ALL loose. But we need guys like you (and we have a lot), that spend and deposit all the time and don't know a thing about the game.

     

     

  • treysmoothtreysmooth Martinsville, INPosts: 626Member
    Originally posted by ALEXAROTH


    Well I am sorry to say but in that case you are part of those that help other break even or profit. Like me. I've been playing this game for over 3 year now. I only deposited 10$ (and I didn't need those either it was to verify my credit card). I worked pretty hard but I can sustain myself almost every hunt round or mining trip. That means I break even or profit slightly at least. If you want to play this game free you have to be smart. If you want to make a profit, you got to be smarter and make a small investment. If you want to make a living, you got to be very smart and make a big investment (over 30k dollars). There are a lot of people (I personally know) that  make  A LIVING out of this game. Yes, they play EU to put food on their table, or in Neverdie's case, to get a house or a brand new Hummer or smth like that. Why do u think The Buzz paid 330k dollars on a land area ? Because he is rich ? No he isn't that rich IRL I think but he is smart and he knows he will get his money back. In fact, everyone knows he'll recoup in 1-2 years and then make a good living out of this game.
     
    Pozny scheme ? Yes, for those that don't know what to hunt or what gear to use or spend money on stupid unnecessary items.  And to you all there that whine that you loose 50% on a hunt ! THANK YOU ALL ! Those 50% go to MA and people like me, witch play smart. Of course if everyone would play smart, no one would win. MA has to profit so we would ALL loose. But we need guys like you (and we have a lot), that spend and deposit all the time and don't know a thing about the game.
     
     

    Hilarious the I'm making my first post guy comes to "debunk" what the real people of the forums have to say.  The game is a virtual casino where the house always wins and if you are REALLY lucky you might hit on something once in a while.  I don't buy you play for free that is total b.s.  Every person that actually plays the game will tell you you can't play for free and like the guy above you said just dropping 50 in isn't going to be enough.  The game is a Casino where the house changes the drop rates to suit there profit needs(and they have btw many times)  To those considering the game don't bother unless you were there 5 years ago you will not be making money and unless you get lucky you most likely will be spending alot of money just to maintain basic stuff.

  • ALEXAROTHALEXAROTH BucharestPosts: 4Member

    Well I am sorry that you don't believe me that I can assure you that everything I said in my post is true. I DO play free (and even make a profit), I DID deposit only 10$ , but I also DID worked hard. There is even a guide on the forum (http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/1945826-post90.html) made by one of the best hunters out there. With that guide you can play for 15$ a month but in a short period of time, you will sustain yourself and not have to deposit again. Plus what you will own and your skills will value more than what you have put in. And you can also find a lot of threads of people that followed that guide and report with a lot of details and acuracy their journey in this game. 90% of them are now self sustained and do not deposit anymore.

  • rvjones10rvjones10 Buffalo, NYPosts: 100Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko


    Given that everything in this game is done with "real money", and that the developers (Mindark) have to make a profit, the only way it CAN work is if the average player spends more than they take out of the game.
    For the average player, it's pretty much a casino full of slotmachines. All activities cost money, but there is always a chance that you can hit a random loot drop that pays big. Whether it be hunting mobs, mining minerals or crafting, the lure of a "big payout" is always there. And the more money you spend on an activity, the bigger the random drops are.
    To allow one player to get a big payout, a lot of other players have to put money in the "pot". The money has to come from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is the players' wallets.
    The game encourages you to go for the jackpot payouts, of course. There is a continuous feed of messages to inform you of which players have "hit the big one". Perhaps if you just pay a few more dollars to be able to carry on hunting/mining/crafting for the next 15 minutes you can also get lucky...
    As with any gambling game, there will be plenty of people who will be eager to tell you how much they won, or how they played clever and beat the system. The thousands of other players that walked away with a loss will not be lining-up to tell you how easily they were suckered, or for how much.
    I reckon that if you are careful, moderately intelligent and prepared to invest $1000 or so in your first year, you could probably work out a system whereby you could continue to play for free indefinitely. You will have enough skills and know-how by that stage to soak up the money spent by the never ending stream of clueless newbies that try the game, overspend and give up playing 3 or 6 months later... :)
     



     

    IMO, This is the best description of the game, and I played for 2 1/2 years. The problem I have is when the game was in development the claims were that there would be a  viable economy, where people could choose their professions and actually generate income of real money as the character became highly skilled. Obviously this never occured, even after considerable leveling of skills.  I was a very careful  approaching gameplay with educated understanding of the weapons I used,  and the Mobs that I hunted. I also was in a guild that knew how to farm difficult mobs by trapping them. So with the inflation that caused  my weapons to appreciated greatly. I probably broke even in the end. So I find it very hard to believe anyone could make money without an exploit, or  insider information.

    So to stay on the Topic regarding the new graphics engine. All they did was remodel the casino floor

  • patrikd23patrikd23 GBGPosts: 1,155Member
    Originally posted by ALEXAROTH


    Well I am sorry that you don't believe me that I can assure you that everything I said in my post is true. I DO play free (and even make a profit), I DID deposit only 10$ , but I also DID worked hard. There is even a guide on the forum (http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/1945826-post90.html) made by one of the best hunters out there. With that guide you can play for 15$ a month but in a short period of time, you will sustain yourself and not have to deposit again. Plus what you will own and your skills will value more than what you have put in. And you can also find a lot of threads of people that followed that guide and report with a lot of details and acuracy their journey in this game. 90% of them are now self sustained and do not deposit anymore.



     

    Youre full of shit, and I never believe a guy that has 2 posts. Looks more like an employee to mindark or something else. If you deposited only 10 $ then its a miracle which happends one time of every millenia and it sure will not happend to the people that youre trying to recruit by selling dreams.  So to all the people thinking of starting this game put hope aside and turn to logic insted.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    "All they did was remodel the casino floor"



    There is an ironic symbolism in that statement. :)

  • ALEXAROTHALEXAROTH BucharestPosts: 4Member

    This is sad indeed. It just shows your mental limitations. Remember the game has a real cash economy ? and the only standard way of making money is by gathering sweat and selling it to other players. Ok you are following me till now ? good. So I did not deposit when I begun (those 10 dollars were after 1 year, when I did not needed them anyway).  So I sweated and sold that to other players. I made @ 50-60 PED (5-6 dollars). THEN I started trading. Yes, what u seem to not understand is that trading in a real cash economy world makes... real money duhh. So I traded a whole summer, buy from people on the street and sell to those that needed but did not had the time to buy themselves. I made my first hundreds of $ this way, witch allowed me to trade a bit every day and also hunt. So what I lost while hunting I gained in trading profits. Until the jackpot hit (it does hit you if you keep hunting eventually) : a 10000 Ped loot at a mob I hunted 5-6 months or so. Trading was then over. I had enough capital to keep hunting that mob in a way in witch I could sustain myself on the long run (of course I won't tell how, that's the secret hehe). That was 1-2 years ago. since then I kept hunting and I reached my level ( a pretty good one I might say, comparing spending vs possible returns in case of a cash out.

    I am not a MA employee, having other smart asses like you in game would just create me more lag.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 GBGPosts: 1,155Member
    Originally posted by ALEXAROTH


    This is sad indeed. It just shows your mental limitations. Remember the game has a real cash economy ? and the only standard way of making money is by gathering sweat and selling it to other players. Ok you are following me till now ? good. So I did not deposit when I begun (those 10 dollars were after 1 year, when I did not needed them anyway).  So I sweated and sold that to other players. I made @ 50-60 PED (5-6 dollars). THEN I started trading. Yes, what u seem to not understand is that trading in a real cash economy world makes... real money duhh. So I traded a whole summer, buy from people on the street and sell to those that needed but did not had the time to buy themselves. I made my first hundreds of $ this way, witch allowed me to trade a bit every day and also hunt. So what I lost while hunting I gained in trading profits. Until the jackpot hit (it does hit you if you keep hunting eventually) : a 10000 Ped loot at a mob I hunted 5-6 months or so. Trading was then over. I had enough capital to keep hunting that mob in a way in witch I could sustain myself on the long run (of course I won't tell how, that's the secret hehe). That was 1-2 years ago. since then I kept hunting and I reached my level ( a pretty good one I might say, comparing spending vs possible returns in case of a cash out.
    I am not a MA employee, having other smart asses like you in game would just create me more lag.

     

    And you dont think that sweaters like you that do everything from free and dont deposit money dont make the game lag? Please go get your thinking cap and use some logic. I was in the game formerly known as Project Entropia when you where in diapers kiddo.

    And to the looks of it the game is a sinking ship right now, because the economy is going to shits. So please go and play the game! And if you wanna make money you get 500 % more money by just collecting thin cans 1 day a week. And the game atm is more like this "Its a blackjack game where the dealer decides who wins and who loses". So be my guest and have fun. Mindark and FPC really screwed up a good game beyond repair this time.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 GBGPosts: 1,155Member
    Originally posted by Scot


    "All they did was remodel the casino floor"



    There is an ironic symbolism in that statement. :)

     

    Yes they sure did, but this time the can decide who wins and who loses on top of that.

  • ronssonronsson stockholmPosts: 20Member

    Most interesting.

    I only played it for a couple of hours in the first months of release when it was called Project Entropia and quit because of ginormous rubberbanding issues. Like many others I didn't understand what the game was about and didn't find any goal with playing.

    From this thread I understand that it is indeed designed as a casino and it seems everyone agrees that it's all about making money. The players who understand the game fully accept and appreciate that.

    I think it is a lot better than a scam but they should probably be more open about it.

  • SmoerbleSmoerble FürstenfeldbruckPosts: 8Member

    I don't understand why ppl flame so hard against each other. Maybe the haters didn't play careful and lost a ton of €uro, but if so, they won't tell us.

    From my impression, most people play with the same amount of money, they would pay as a subscription fee in other MMORPGs, and imo this is the only way, a normal player would go. I had some free cash and decided, not to put all in shares at the bank, but also try something in Entropia. But the money was taken as if it's sahres: no guarantee, 100% might get lost.

    It's not necessary to do that, not many people run active shops like me in Entropia. But it's definately wrong, that you can't go far with 50 US$.

    As someone has written above: if someone plays stupid (and I am not talking about bad luck!), then he looses more than avarage. If someone plays clever, he pays less than avarage or might even at no costs.

    That's the idea of "avarage": stupid people pay too much, clever people pay less.

    And before I had my shops, I was able to play months with 50 US$, but I wasn't greedy, lol :D

  • dar_es_balatdar_es_balat Oakland, CAPosts: 438Member

    I just started playing this game 2 weeks ago, and honestly its an amazing game.   A true sandbox MMO.   The game is 100% free to play, but as in reality you get the type of experience you pay for.   While FTP is viable, and you can eventually do very well, youre likely to spend the first couple of months simply sweating and trading.

    Dont get me wrong.  After those 3-4 months of doing this one task you will have an excellent set of skills suitable for a very brilliant career in mindforce!   However, you will probably also be bored out of your mind!

    I adopted a more aggressive path of depositing early and diligently hunting and using my resources to their fullest extent.   Will I succeed?  I dont know!   But its an adventure, a fun one that my girlfriend and other friends are looking to join me on or have already, emulating my philosophy and approach to entropia due to the scope of things I have experienced early on in the game.

    Is it for everyone?  No.  The game is honestly difficult.   EU however is the game to play if you are looking for a challenge that both appeals to your gaming side and your entrepreneurial side!

    Cheers,

    Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.

  • scamtropiascamtropia AuckPosts: 22Member

    Graphics are average at best.

    Cost to play is far too high.

    Economic model of a casino ponzi hybrid.

    Everything you do (craft, mine, hunt, color etc) is all a gamble - you put up your ante, click... and pray!

     

    To put the cost in perspective (this is optimistic prices too);

    remember, (L) means it breaks and cannot be repaired - you have to buy a new one, including markup, everytime it breaks.

    Basic Low/Mid level hunting gear:

    HL400 (L) [pistol] - 177PED @ 120%(markup) = 212.4PED / $21.24

    Ghost [armor] - 348PED + 400PED (markup) = 748PED / $74.80

    T20 (L) [healpack] -  57.9 ;120% = 69.48PED/$6.95

    A104 [dmg amplifier] - 40PED + 160PED (markup) = 200PED / $20

    Ammunition = 300PED / $30

    TOTAL BASIC COST = 1529.88PED = $152.99 USD

     

     

    This is just low/mid level!

    When you start dealing in mid/high level (not even near uber level) you're looking at $1k-10k USD just to kit yourself. THEN you have on-going expenses such as repairs, replenishing ammo, so on and so forth.

    Basically, the whole game mechanic is based on a casino, but you'd need to actually play EU to know what I mean.

    I play EU, but not because I like it, rather, because I want my damn money back! (and I have a fair amount of gear/skills). Plus I think I'm addicted, much like a gambler at the one armed bandits.

    Entropians (other than me) will try and sugar coat shit and call it a donut, but we all know damn well that it's a casino. That's why noone congratulates condition crafters for their big loots, everyone says "good LUCK" and noone can ever be sure of anything.

    Even investing in property such as land, shops, houses has recently been shown to be a hugely risky venture as Mindark change anything to do with anything when and where they see fit, which ultimately, could turn your big money investment into a virtual paper weight.

    If I could go back and stop myself installing Entropia, I'd do it in a heart beat!

    Entropia - Madoff would be proud!

    Entropia is a scam, a casino designed to suck you in and strip your bank account.
    The Swedes are rich enough without you handing over your credit cards! DONT FALL FOR IT!

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dar_es_balat


    I just started playing this game 2 weeks ago, and honestly its an amazing game.   A true sandbox MMO.   The game is 100% free to play, but as in reality you get the type of experience you pay for.   While FTP is viable, and you can eventually do very well, youre likely to spend the first couple of months simply sweating and trading.
    Dont get me wrong.  After those 3-4 months of doing this one task you will have an excellent set of skills suitable for a very brilliant career in mindforce!   However, you will probably also be bored out of your mind!
    I adopted a more aggressive path of depositing early and diligently hunting and using my resources to their fullest extent.   Will I succeed?  I dont know!   But its an adventure, a fun one that my girlfriend and other friends are looking to join me on or have already, emulating my philosophy and approach to entropia due to the scope of things I have experienced early on in the game.
    Is it for everyone?  No.  The game is honestly difficult.   EU however is the game to play if you are looking for a challenge that both appeals to your gaming side and your entrepreneurial side!
    Cheers,

    There is a group called Gamblers Anonymous you should get to know them, they might be able to help you....

  • WagrofWagrof umbatumbaPosts: 32Member

    Later adopters of MMOs often feel disenfranchised or unable to get into the mainstream of things because earlier adopters have progressed to the top end and in crafting or hunting, dominate the market. Not so in Entropia.

     

    you guys should do some research before posting stuff like this, because the exact contrary is the truth.

    they changed the skillgain mechanics few years ago, so that it's impossible to catch up to the so called "vets", who run around with profession skills at 100 or evader 80 etc.

    if someone invested the same amount of time and money like they did, he'd not be even close to them, with the current skill mechanics.  so it's actually worse than in other MMOs.

  • TorschenTorschen HelsinkiPosts: 78Member

    Originally posted by patrikd23

    No you cant compare WoW and Entropia because WoW cost 15 bucks every MONTH and Entropia can cost 15 bucks an HOUR. Ofcourse it all depends on what you hunt. But if you play this game you better be ready to lose the money you put in.

    You know what you (us) all ppl who are online in mmorpgs? We make friends there. You know what I mean. Now what do you do when you get bored of the game that has monthly fee. You quit. And there goes your friends too. You have to pay just to have chance to talk to them (unless you happened to get their IM adress).

     

    Just played 1 month WoW again, got bored (again), and last day I really liked to send some last messages to friends there. When I log in the system tells me I have less than 2 minutes No exceptions. No way around. But to pay for one month more. I even have to pay for one month to just to post on forums. Screw that.

    In Entropia I can log in anytime anywhere without paying anything and have a talk with my friends. (And actually I can do some activities there too without paying a dime. Nothing serious gaming of course). I do that occasionally even if I happen to be actively playing some other mmorpg presently.

    This makes the world truly persistent. I never forget I have this second life (hehe) lying there, even if I'm currently not playing.

  • aesbestosaesbestos Waco, TXPosts: 81Member

    I can remember playing Project Entropia and gathering sweat for hours...  Only to get a used crappy gun and fail at hunting immediately.

     

    I wouldn't mind giving it a shot with 20$ or something.  Looks pretty.

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