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Originally posted by AkumaDaimyo Meh. SWTOR may not kill WoW but it can certainly crush this flop of a game. It's too much like CoH with a few tweaks and new world.
I've never fully understood the desire people have to "kill" a game. Simple schadenfreude or is there a practical reason? There's always some people a game brings a bit of joy to, don't they like it when people are happy? Is it that the refugees all supposed to subscribe to the hater's chosen game, to reinforce the idea that they made the right choice and soothe their ego?
In actual fact when a MMORPG fails it's a pretty bad thing for the genre as a whole. It could potentially mean less investors, confidence, innovation amongst other things. Not to mention the loss of jobs.
Currently Playing: The Game
Originally posted by gandales the complaints (not all) are exagerated1) Missions. CO missions are not so different from the other mmos I played like wow or CoH. Kill Xs, Kill big guy, collect something, escort, etc. 2) Balancing, there is no mmo without balancing problems, I still remember that classes were taking turns in wow, that warlock are OP or broken or whatever people felt like at the moment. The complains I completely agree, 1) Group content, it is pretty reduced, at the same time the leveling is so fast that there is no much reason to actually group except for a few instances and mainly for enjoy them but you can level to 40 without teaming at all.2) Small amount of content, at launch with deficit, now with 15% of surplus, but still too small. However, most of the content is non-generic instance like CoH so Cryptic could actually creates a lot of content easily if they dare to go that route more. In conclusion, I think the game is good, with a lot of area requiring improvement and really good potential.
Although I agree on a sterile technical level; there's actually much more to the issue of missions/quests in an mmo - the presentation of the gameworld in CO is much more clumsy and arbitrary than any gameworld I have experienced,and this actively undermines the variety of reward you can possibly draw from each mission. Instances in other games provide objectives and features you can resolve in total, they allow you to see the conclusion and result of your efforts, no alternative method of providing such an illusion is attempted in CO, while zones are large they actually convey a cramped and cluttered feel, the careless design of mission objectives forecebly drives you past respawned features with alarming frequency undermining any sense of immersion, respawn rates are fast and ignorant of shard populations so you can often face the futile realisation of wasting your time before you have even digested your accumulated loot, mission texts are clumsy and wildly different in tone, mission arcs don't integrate consistently so you will find a cure for one blighted enemy in one arc and be back to havesting the same folks you now know to be innocents in the next, enemy ai has zero variety everything behaves like herding animals, locations and response to attack are identical accross the board, even the oldest games provide some choice of contact or mission but there are no occurences of player choice that have any stylistic influence in CO..none whatsoever, which is a new low for player involvement.
The reward for completing a mission in CO is that your avatar gains experience, the reward for completing a mission in virtually any other mmo you care to mention is likewise experience but additionally they attempt to provide conceptual fulfillment, they often define the choices/journey you have ahead, they respond differently to your chosen achetype, they attempt to engage your imagination and draw you into the lore, they aim to support the theme in a manner that assists and encourages player involvement and immersion - these conceptual rewards go hand in hand with the physical rewards....maybe not always with the same success but CO is the first mmo I have come accross that doesnt even bother to try and convey them.
For these reasons identical mission mechanics in other mmo's are potentially more real fun or else more likely to appeal to a wider variety of player than the monosyllabic reward CO offers. Simply adding more of the same missions/quests/lairs as they have to date styles will not broaden the appeal, they desperately need to go back to the drawing board and revisit the core theme with some genuine conviction or else variety and depth will have no hope of seeing light of day.
The character creation screen is still the best thing about this game after all this time. Roper need realize that in order for CO to get better. Because as of now CO is still full of FAIL for all the same reasons as 1st month when they were bleeding players.
As for CO not being immersive, I agree. I have been playing Mass Effect, to prepare for the sequel, and that game is 10 years ahead of CO in terms of immersion and lore, etc.
But I am not looking forward to TOR as an MMO because Bioware has yet to make my a game with good controls. Sure the controls are always "good enough" to get you through the story, but the acting of controlling my character is too clumsy to be intrinsically fun. In other words, if you removed all the story and lore, I certainly would not load up ME to kill baddies for hours.
There is only one MMO I have found with combat that is as good as an action game, and that's CO. Gameplay matters more to me then presentation, as I am an old school gamer, and while I agree the presentation in Champions is lacking, the combat gameplay is top notch for an MMORPG.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
Originally posted by HitechLolifeIn actual fact when a MMORPG fails it's a pretty bad thing for the genre as a whole. It could potentially mean less investors, confidence, innovation amongst other things. Not to mention the loss of jobs.
That's not true at all with a game like WoW out there (and wouldn't be true in the long term even if that wasn't the case). When bad games die it does send a message though. LEARN FROM THIS, DON'T MAKE IT'S LIKE AGAIN! Sometimes some learn the wrong lessons, but it can be quite helpful to the industry overall; bad games should die.
Originally posted by Soupgoblin Notice that the fanboi brings nothing to the table <snip> And Bill Roper does not know anything about "listening to their players". He would need to purchase a dummies guide first.
How about you purchase "Understanding MMOs for Dummies" and come back but you probably can't because Scott Hartsman is too busy listening to players getting promoted to Producer by sodomizing his community to allow the sockpuppets to realize his game is just as guilty of everything you mentioned above after 5 years.
Thanks for picking on the fanboy, an EQ2 apologist has even more to contribute... not.
This game needs lots of work, but most of it is the fundamental problems with MMOs as a whole. Someone needs to design a way to make playing with other people more fun than the typical "let people PVP, group, raid, or do public quest type things."
Every MMORPG is boring and repetitive. It really isn't the game, what people mainly seem to need is something that isn't going to drive their friends away so that they have someone to play with. What can we do to mix things up a bit?
Originally posted by 3devious Originally posted by Soupgoblin Notice that the fanboi brings nothing to the table <snip> And Bill Roper does not know anything about "listening to their players". He would need to purchase a dummies guide first.
A little bitter, aren't you?
I am no EQ2 apologist, I think SOE has a track record for spitting in their customers face.
But I do now a fun and entertaining game when I play one, EQ2 is a fun and entertaining game, whereas Champions online is not (anymore).
Yes this game has issues, and yes the problem lies within the industry. The game companies think that the entire MMO community will accept garbage at launch. (AoC, WAR and DF are examples) .
But the reason they think this way is because there are too many moron gamers that will eat a bucket of crap and tell everyone how wonderful it tastes. The real problem is the low expectations of gamers and the IP fans who (just because they like the IP) will lie about how well a game is doing, when all evidence points at the complete opposite.
Yes men are just ass kissers, ass kissers are useless
And, not every MMO is boring and repetitive, only the boring and repetitive ones are. Just stay away from them and you won't feel so depressed all the time.
Oh, thanks for the personal attack. It isn't my fault your friends left the game, and you.