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So why hasn't SWG bounced back... honestly.

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  • sindraodsindraod Avon Lake, OHPosts: 28Member

    i played this game from its inception until after the NGE. i was loyal to these SOE execs who were not loyal to me. they did, in fact, give veteran players the finger not once, but twice (CU and NGE)...

    they took a game that was relatively unique, and dumbed it down to make it more similar to other games because they wanted a bigger sub base. don't even try to tell me it was to improve the quality of the game, because it achieved the total opposite of that.

    if SOE had been wise, they would have, after CU, recognized that their veteran player base liked the old game better. so what did SOE do instead? they moved even further from that original game!

    greed and poor decision-making led to this game's ultimate downfall.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by GTwander


    The same reason EQ1 or UO hasn't "bounced back". The only people this game can hope to attract is it's old players, too many people are looking for some kind of "next-gen mmo" and jumping ship over and over till then find it.

     

    I'm sure that's a likely factor, but I'd have to fire back that WoW is anything but a next-gen MMO, and it's got what EVERYONE in the MMO biz wants (I'm talking sub numbers here). In fact, I'd even point out that it's no secret that the simple fact that it'll run on most mediocre office PC's is a huge selling point (such a selling point that BioWare has made no secret that they're copying the idea with TOR).

    Personally, I think SWG's graphics are only now starting to look dated (buggy as hell, yes), and still stands up nicely against most newer games (with it's graphics on high that is). All bugs aside, it is a MUCH prettier game than WoW (aside from the atrocious NGE HUD).

    So while I agree the core MMO player is looking for that next-gen experience (I'm one of them), I'd suggest that the masses aren't necessarily following suit. The masses that SOE thought would come in droves.

     

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    After some years i made a trial account to look how SWG had fared.

    Graphic is crap

    FPS-Combat drives me away from every  MMORPG (i would play a shooter if i liked it).

    World is covered with abandoned places.

    SOE has a bad reputation and shows since many years they can not make a good MMORPG for PC-Gamers

    And the old gameplay i liked (that had many flaws that time but it was ok enough and offered potential for improvements) is no more and i dont like the new one.

     

    In the end the game is crap and SOE has not a single clue how to develop a successfull PC-MMORPG so it is the fault of SOE and to an unknown degree the fault of Lucasfilm.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    SOE continuously seems to forget you actually need players and fans of your game to actually keep it alive. Its been shown countless times they make choices that either no one, or a small minority are asking for, botch everything up, screw everyone over and then try to cover it all up.

    People were ticked when they completely changed the game, not once but twice, the NGE being the final killer. That being said I think it was more SOE's actions after the fact that really drove everyone away. Their constant crap of saying "more people are playing every day" right after they would open up everyones accounts to pad their numbers, and then the crap they spewed about not having the original pre-cu code anymore because they overwrote it.....one of the first things you learn in programming is to always save multiple copies of your work in case anything goes awry.

  • abyss610abyss610 northern cambria, PAPosts: 1,131Member

    SoE itself should have been an option, ever since they added RMT to every game they own i refuse to play any game SoE comes out from now on. well i did go back to EQOA for a bit there but its the only SoE that doesn't have RMT and its the 2nd oldest MMO they have i believe? tho i think its more because of the PS2 format that they just can't add RMT to it, or its just more difficult to.hell they don't even offer server transfers for it, and if older players want to return they'd have to start over on CLW the only popular server left.

    SoE is the worst MMO company out there they just shit on their customers over and over. and don't listen to anything they say at all.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by Xerith


    SOE continuously seems to forget you actually need players and fans of your game to actually keep it alive.

     

    Excellent point X.

    I'll admit there's been times when I wanted to go back. I would receive notice of a vet trial and be nearly overwhelmed with anticipation while installing/logging back in... only to be supremely let down by the lack of population on the inside. Hense solidifying my decision to not re-up my account.

    On the flip side, I also quit after the CU. Not out of anger mind you, but the simple fact that ALL of my friends left the game. Then what happened? ALL of them (as did I) went back a few months later, and had a great old time.

    How did SOE initially address the population issues?

    Holo-players.

     

     

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    Ive often times wanted to re-sub as well, many times have I went off to get another free trial to see the new goodies only to say bleh as the population and the game design just doesnt warrant the same involvement it once did.

    Really if SOE was so hellbent on creating the NGE as they have shown time and time again they feel it was the greatest choice, then they should have just made it SWG 2 and left the original the way it was. The NGE basically was a whole new system, and theres no reason they couldnt of just made it a totally different game and given players the choice of which they wanted to play.

  • AntiheroDAntiheroD RamstienPosts: 38Member

    I love Star Wars. But this game is nothing but a MMO with a SW skin. It has nothing to do with the actual SW universe..



    Then there is the SOE/Sony customer support. It has to be one of the worst in the world.



    I do not buy anything Sony..I will not play anything Sony.

     

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by AntiheroD


    I love Star Wars. But this game is nothing but a MMO with a SW skin. It has nothing to do with the actual SW universe..

     

     

    Yet another great point (they just seem to add up don't they?).

    I happen to be about as big of a SW fan as they come, and I find many of the uses of SW canon in SWG actually repulse me than attract, simply due to their use being either nonchalantly thrown in to give is 'SW cred', or utterly blasphemous things such as Flying Love Ewoks.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    Because of the NGE and $OE not willing to restore the game to PRE CU and fixing it that way.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • BadMedicineBadMedicine LutonPosts: 86Member

     I can't say why it bounced back. But I can tell you I never bought it because it seems like a very ugly WoW clone in SW universe. Not interested.

    The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,824Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xanphia

    Originally posted by 0over0


    Plenty of people hate WoW, it seems to do pretty well with subs.
    People make up their own minds about products/services--all being vocal does is give it more attention, so more people try it and find out for themselves.

     

    WoW also has huge marketing campaigns.

     

    Word of mouth, especially from other consumers is a huge tool whether in favor or against an item or idea.

    Wow was a huge success before the huge marketing campaigns. 

    Word of mouth isn't something that people invent just so they can talk about something.  Word of mouth is earned through actions and experiences.  Good word of mouth comes from a good experience. 

     

     

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Posts: 7,824Member Uncommon

    So why hasn't SWG bounced back?

     

    This is the same question people ask about EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, EQ, etc.

     

    I cannot think of one other company that has such a poor track record across the board as soe.  There is just such an ugly list of actions that soe finds acceptable to push upon their customers that is has earned them a justified reputation.  On top of that they cannot hold onto quality game designers to save their life and this has affected all their games. 

    A company that doesn't respect its paying customers and has a serious quality issue isn't going to see people rushing back to embrace them. 

     

    It is funny and sad how the remaining fans of said games stand around and wonder were everyone has gone or why more people do not come join them.

    Good games get good press, bad games don't get good press.

  • LaterisLateris Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,748Member Uncommon

     

    The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!

     



    The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.



    And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.

     

     

     

     

     

  • VarnyVarny ggghPosts: 765Member

     Because they ruined the game, their reputation and it is now six years old and new players will be put off by that.

  • kevingailykevingaily Painesville, OHPosts: 113Member

    Personally, I really wanted to like it. Even knowing what the naysayers were complaining about I tried it anyway since I am a big SW fan. What killed it for me was a few things that really bothered me. I will list some of them:

    1. Dead cities. If one is going to play a sandbox style MMO a good sized playerbase is very important since the players make a lot of the "content." It was so barren outside of a few areas where vets congregated.

    2. After the main storyline ended I was left with nothing but empty spaces with generic terrain and no real quests outside of fedex ones from the consoles. Obviously this kind of relates to number one.

    3. Mobs. Seriously, whenever I did a quest the mobs were grouped and I would usually aggro 2-3 at a time and they were tough to handle alone. Why solo you ask? see number one... most players were maxed level and I rarely saw anyone outside of the few major cities that are popular.

     

    I really WANTED to like it. In fact the starter zone and the storyline on Tatooine were awesome. Going into Jabba's palace and working for him was cool! The beginning of the story on Naboo was fun as well. But by the time I was done with Naboo, it had gotten real old. I bet once upon  a time when the place was filled with cities of players making content, city pvp, etc.... it would have been an easy thing to stay and hang my hat so to speak. 

    When I hear you old school SWG vets talk of filled cantinas and meaningful community, rare jedi and the hunt to get one, etc... I think I really missed something special. I understand SWG had issues and it was not all roses, but still..... Also, I like how they did the beastmaster and other things that I am told were taken out but were coming back in. However, I think it may be a little to late.

    In summary, as a SW fan I found SWG to leave me with a feeling of disappointment. I feel that it wasn't fleshed out like it could have been, and especially when the players left in droves, they needed to flesh out the planets to make up for the lack of player content. By not doing so, all I found , mostly, is dead player cities, empty towns, and terrain that  gave a feeling of de ja vu.

    Just my opinion <shrugs>

     

  • eolseeolse chula vista, CAPosts: 72Member

    games don't bounce back , you have one shot ..  i havent seen anygame like go through total revamp and have a health population or have made me want to come back and play it. example -  Vanguard , age of Conan, everquest 2 , 

  • kevingailykevingaily Painesville, OHPosts: 113Member
    Originally posted by Lateris


     
    The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!
     


    The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.


    And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.
     
     
     
     
     

    I totally agree on the crafting. In fact, that was really the diamond in the rough. Despite the negative post I made in this thread, I did enjoy the crafting and setting up shop! Few if any do crafting and selling so well.

  • topllamatopllama Milton, FLPosts: 3Member

    Because it sucks now. as it has for 3+ years.

  • alexanys1982alexanys1982 naples, FLPosts: 276Member

    If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, thousands of people would drop EvE, WoW and w/e else they are playing to come back and re live the magic that game used to have. It would once again be a real competitor.

     

    BUT they arent going to do that, dev manager egos and the sort will doom the game to getting shutdown soon. They would rather see the game gone then to admit they made a mistake and change things back.

    image
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by alexanys1982


    If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

     

    You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

    I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

    Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

     

  • alexanys1982alexanys1982 naples, FLPosts: 276Member

     Im not asking to remove loads of content, and alot of people didnt mind the shuttle times and item decay btw, its part of the original vision of the game where crafters actually mattered and were a big part of the game. To this day there isnt anything at all that compares to running and decorating my own droid shop...having customers come in and place orders/chat and just have a generally amazing time.  Having BH's come in and tell you about his last jedi hunt was cool, as was being a part of a towns commercial area in general. Also, im sure if they spent a few months tweaking code they could make the new content work just fine with the old original game design.

     

    I understand that SWG is awful, but there was a time before all the NGE crapola that the game was a unique work of art with devs that had real vision that made a living breathing SW world, it was sony that decided they wanted to take WoW  head on and destroyed the games soul of player interaction in the proccess. Stop denying that SWG was once an amazing game.

     

    image
  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    Originally posted by alexanys1982


    If they revert the game back to what it was on release sans bugs, ...blahblah blah

     

    You are asking for removing loads of content that has been added since the NGE and trying to solve the bugs that were mostly there from the beginning.

    I think that starting from scratch would prove to be even less difficult. But I know, I shouldnt talk sense in this forum. So ahem, here it goes...

    Yeah! revert the game back to preCU and itll be a WoW killer! Millions of players crave for item decay, waiting 30minutes on a shuttle and nothing but sand in the sandbox! They dont want content! SWG is srs bsns!

     

     

    Someforumguy, what is your opinion of why SWG has not bounced back?

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by alexanys1982


     Im not asking to remove loads of content, and alot of people didnt mind the shuttle times and item decay btw, its part of the original vision of the game where crafters actually mattered and were a big part of the game. To this day there isnt anything at all that compares to running and decorating my own droid shop...having customers come in and place orders/chat and just have a generally amazing time.  Having BH's come in and tell you about his last jedi hunt was cool, as was being a part of a towns commercial area in general. Also, im sure if they spent a few months tweaking code they could make the new content work just fine with the old original game design.
     
    I understand that SWG is awful, but there was a time before all the NGE crapola that the game was a unique work of art with devs that had real vision that made a living breathing SW world, it was sony that decided they wanted to take WoW  head on and destroyed the games soul of player interaction in the proccess. Stop denying that SWG was once an amazing game.
     

    I never denied that SWG was or is an amazing game. It just would never bring in the numbers like WoW does.

    I only see replacing the skillsystem for the cookiecutter professions as a bad move. I think that removing things like decay, TEF and shorten shuttle wait times was a great move.  Adding content was a good thing.

    But it doesnt matter. Even if the skillsystem would be put back in place, it would still be nothing but a niche game. What you dont realise is that loads of those millions of WoW players arent even what you would call 'gamers'.

    They never played games before WoW and do play WoW, because WoW can be played without ever having to face a challenge or having to read a guide on a website. This kind of crowd will never play a game like SWG.

    If you could add the old skillsystem to todays SWG, it would be loads better then preNGE. But just the old skillsystem. Not crap like TEF or other systems that only promote griefing (TEF) or idle time (shuttletimes). Because seriously, you dont need long waiting times to get socializing starting.

     

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member
    Originally posted by Lateris


     
    The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!
     


    The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.


    And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.
     
     
     
     
     



     

    I have returned to SWG post NGE a few times to assess the state of the game.  I think the crafting system, player housing, space, and large worlds are amazing.  But unfortunately, the move away from skill based game to a class/level type of system gutted one of the main draws of the game.  The fps combat would be more engauging if it was implemented better, so far I have yet to see an fps hybrid style mmo with a well designed user interface. 

This discussion has been closed.