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This was possibly the greatest MMO ever. I'm giving it an award.
Irish
Member UncommonPosts: 259
After reading a few threads and agreeing with the reality that this entire genre blows due to it's inability to reach it's own potential, I hereby declare this game the "Most MMO-like MMO."
Now, from day one, I thought the combat blew, and the controls and overall movement were clunky. Everything else in this game was great.
Those who wanted crafting got it, those who wanted non-combat classes got it, those who wanted PvP got it, those who wanted PvE got it. Space travel was added in along with the ability to walk around on your ship. Tangible player housing and shops. Vehicles and/or animal mounts.
This game did so much right, that I didn't give two shits about the combat. Just standing around was fun in this game, provided you were in a cantina or a place with fellow unsavory folk. It did take some time to get to that point, however.
As the point I was trying to get across has already been brought to light, there is no need to read any further. This is just more of me talking.
While the CU may have put a damper on the game for the pro-combat players (and then the dreadful NGE), I don't think it can be solely blamed for the destruction of this game. I am always a combat-class and love shooting/stabbing things in the face, and to be honest, it didn't stop me from playing. Maybe because I thought combat was crap from the get-go.
This game was more MMO than WoW could ever hope to be. What Warcraft had on it, was, smoother combat, and less clunkiness in the control. That may be the only thing it really has on any other MMO. Not to say this is some small thing, but in comparison to all Galaxies had to offer, it really did pale in comparison.
SWG had crouch, prone, crawling. Sure, the planets looked like complete ghettos with all the player housing strewn about and maybe they eventually rendered the main towns deserted, but I could come out of my house in my boxers on an early twin-sun Tatooine morning, stretch, and proceed to pop Krayt Dragons in the face. Then /bmoc and /airguitar myself and log out.
It was hard NOT to rp in a game where you were truly living it. The more I talk about it, the more I want to fruitlessly reinstall and resub once again. The only other MMO that comes close to that for me is DAOC.
I remember the first article I saw about SWG, I was imagining these retarded-sized space battles with ship boarding and important players taking part in them. While I hung in the cantinas planet-side, a big fish in a small pond, ignoring the greater threat and shooting things that anger me in the face. I didn't quite get that, but I got a story equally as worthy of remembrance.
While it may not be the same as Galaxies, I'm looking to SW:TOR to pay homage to it's predecessor and at least give a brotha some boxers, housing, and spaceships with a side of cantina. Somewhere down the road anyhow.
Sorry if most of this has been incoherent, as I am just coming off a sickness of craptastic proportions. Not exactly up on my nutrients. Anyhow, my tirade is now over, here's to SWG, the real /bmoc.
Comments
Hope you feel better soon.You know you are going to attacked by two of the most powerful factions on this site, right?
Thanks! No worries, I welcome constructive criticism or people with valid points. But realistically, everything I stated is only my opinion which really isn't worth jack shit (generally, the same value as everyone else).
SWG was a good child, but I'm not afraid to scold it in public or call my child better than other people's.
I was ok with the CU, too. While pre-cu justified the Doctor profession, I don't see how doc buffs would take somebody that could barely handle 2 stormtroopers, to taking out a nest of Rancors. Also wasn't big on the TRUE clones wars series, "composite armor wars online". the CU made you reasonably tough and doc buffs made you reasonably tougher but you couldn't wipe out critters 10+ your con. A little more sane.
But I agree... SWG was probably the most MMO MMO there was. It had all the stuff and depth that you could possibly want, without all that yucky "stuff to actually DO with it".
I just wish that somebody would get a pre-NGE server going so that those folks can have their bliss, or realise how extremely rosy their hindsight is and move on. Let everyone have their fandom.
No. He won't. No one should need to give pause when deciding to post their opinion here on MMORPG.com.
Consider that your warning to anyone thinking of doing so.
Hey there Irish, I hope you feel better soon mate, and as for the thread, I couldn't agree with you more! In fact I think you should have posted this in 'The Pub' so that people could see how a REAL MMORPG should be made. All the current MMO's on the market (excluding EVE) are just games, SWG was a living, breathing galaxy. Its playstyle also fostered by far the best community I have ever had the pleasure to play with. MMO communities now truly are dreadful (WoW I'm looking at you!)
Only EVE comes even part way to having that same feel, but of course EVE is still missing walking avatars and non-ship-based activities (Roll on Ambulation/WiS/Incarna or whatever its being called this month
).
SWG was the game that got me into MMO's in the first place, being that I was a 70's kid that dreamed of one day cleaving some rebel scum in two with a lightsaber (Oh GL why did you have to castrate Darth Vader with the prequels!). Every MMO that I have tried since then (and the ones in my sig are just the main ones that I have played, there are a lot more) just doesn't come anywhere close to SWG. Now this could be because it was Star Wars, but if that was the case I would still be playing the NGE. No, it was the fact that it was Star Wars and also a REAL MMORPG, like I said before - all the others are just games.
I am eagerly awaiting SW:TOR, even though I know that it will be more game than world (or galaxy even). Why? Well Bioware is my favourite RPG developer (KotOR and Mass Effect are my top RPG's ever with Dragon Age coming in third. Roll on Mass Effect 2) and even if I only play SW:TOR as a single-player-style RPG I will still get a lot of content out of it as I intend to play through each class several times for the different twists to the storylines and for the different build-types that you can create with each class (eg Smuggler having Gunslinger path and Scoundrel). Any other MMO type content, or world feeling I will consider an added bonus.
Anyway, my rambling rant is over now too. Get well soon Irish and I'll see you in SW:TOR.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Glad to hear you are on the road to recovery.
Just out of interest, when was the last time you logged into SWG?
Irish, I think you eloquently said what many SWG vets feel.
SWG was once an immersive 'world' many players 'lived' in, and I also miss it.
I know TOR will not be SWG, but I am hoping a few of SWG's finer features might make their way into the game. We wil have to wait, hope and see.
If your bouts of SWG nostalgia become overwhelming, you can always try a free trial or check to see if your old account has a free vet trial pending. You will find that half the servers are closed and half of the remaining servers are struggling, so I suggest rolling a toon on Starsider. You may want to fully recover from your illness first - what you may find could cause a relapse.
What ever you decide to do, Good Luck and I wish you a speedy recovery.
No. He won't. No one should need to give pause when deciding to post their opinion here on MMORPG.com.
Consider that your warning to anyone thinking of doing so.
LOL @ the warning :P
Grandpagamer...debate is not "hate". Whether I agree with you or disagree with you, I like to think you're mature enough to handle differences in opinion - which is really what all our bickering and discussion boils down to. Some of us simply "hate" the direction SWG has chosen to take...but that's not for this thread. Just don't assume we're attacking when all we're doing is discussing different opinions.
Irish, GREAT POST!!! I could not agree more.
You said you always thought combat "blew" and again, I agree, but isn't that a main reason we saw the CU and NGE - to help "improve" the combat experience? In your opinion, did either update help? Can you expand on what you didn't like about the combat? Was it the speed? The pace? The NPC AI? Was it the NPCs shooting through walls? The lack of "gore"? The lack of true 3D? What exactly made combat "blow"?
I played SWG in the beginning up to and during the jedi grind. Not sure what my label is but anyways. I do miss most the days of sitting around chatting and having a good time. Thent he Empire would come along and attack. I would put on my gear (Some kind of bone armor (old days)), go out fight then come back to "Oh where was I." I literally would spend hours just doing this.
What is funny. I actually thought that the achievement like exploring was the way to become a jedi. Who knew that it was just hitting the right professions. I spent hours combing the galaxy for secrets or easter eggs in the game to mysterious unlock the jedi. Not that I wanted to become a jedi but just to get the option. Who knows maybe I would of chose it just because of the path I took to find it.
I also remember spending lots of time organizing huge pvp battles. Also taking down bases and stuff liek that.
So, I agree with the Op on the most part that this is the gretest MMO to me at the time in my life in my experience. (Trying to protect myself here from all directions just in case. lol) Unfortunately, SWG turned into a game that I either didn't like anymore or wanted something different.
I do miss hunting those krayts for a rare pearl. Or hunting those jedis. (Stares off into space for a few hours...)
SWG had its perks and it had the right idea, sadly I thought it was poorly executed.
World
Pros
Open room means more elbow room.
Cons
Bland, nothing worth seeing.
Felt dead, I felt the world being to open made it feel to empty.
Rage of the Wookiees added the feeling of being in a living world but overstepped and landed in a far to linear world design making the planet feel like a maze and less like a world.
PvP
Pros
The Overt and Covert system was a great Idea
Was risky giving the player a rewarding feeling when coming out victorious
Random PvP encounters gave an adrenaline rush of both fear and excitement when seeing the red dot slowly moving towards you.
Cons
(note: Depends on Server)
Most Players refused to PvP
PvP servers were defined by the player, joining one with little to no PvP without checking the forums meant you were screwed or had to start over.
PvP players were often shunned.
PvE
Pros
Supported both solo and grouping
Fun and familiar world encounters (Krayt Dragon, Rancor)
Gave options in progression
Cons
Encounters are only fun for the first time
Terminal Missions were completely boring and often recycled only to be randomly placed in another area
Crafting
Pros
Had importance, required to make the world go round
Room for fame, a little hard work and you could be known for some of the best crafted items around.
Lots and lots of depth
Cons
Felt like a second job
Professions
Pros
Almost every play style was supported
Many class combinations
Playing a Smuggler felt like a Smuggler (goes for every class)
Cons
Certain activities made you feel your class was lacking for the situation
Was sometimes forced into a FOTM build
Player Cities
Pros
Because who doesn't want a home beside a beautiful river on Dantooine?
More room for fame, building a great city and advertising it could bring many visitors and businesses
Cities could be built on many planets giving the player some satisfactory with his surroundings of choice
Almost complete freedom to do what you want with the territory
Cons
Cluster F***, best word for this, most of the time cities were horribly placed and often very cluttered
Finding a place to build a home or city was often a challenge when it shouldn't have been
As if cluttered wasn't bad enough, lots of cities were abandoned in the great massacre of the chanNGE
Sometimes...freedom isn't such a great idea. Nothing like running into buildings named "Waffles House of Pain!L!L!" to Kill the Immersion.
Community
Pros
Very polite
Was mostly helpful
Cons
None
(unless of coarse you want my opinion on those same (grieving) players today...which I don't think you do)
The only other amazing thing SWG did was the Bounty System, it was thought out very well. If ToR should ever go with a BH system, something similar to this would be the right idea.
I also left out Space, I'm very Biased on that subject, In short I felt it was horribly done and extremely boring, why nobody can make space fun and interesting has me confused. My final thought on SWG would be it was nothing more then a Casual Social Sim City, to many things were an after thought.
I agree with the original poster.
If SWG had been given another year to develop I think the entire landscape of the mmo genre would look different today. SWG is one of only a few games designed to promote community and social interaction. The systems that were delivered were brilliant in concept, but horribly unfinished in delivery.
Every problem in the game stems back to the choice to release the game before it was ready. The city system wasn't even designed at release so that caused urban sprawl. The combat suffered, because it wasn't finished. Just like the HAM system, crafting and everything else. Points of interest were empty, content was half finished (like pvp battelgrounds), bases. Even my damn imperial officer hat could not be equiped for years. ARGH!
It really is a shame, because this game should have been an example for other companies to follow.
There was alot of potential at launch but it was overshadowed by bugs, incomplete features and boring gameplay. Mediocre reviews and flas in the pan subs (estimated 300k players max ever) spelled doom for SWG from the get go. Instead of focusing on features and storylines (Cry of Alderaan) we were give hologrinds and nerf BH vs Jedi nerfs and additions. Classes were pushed aside or ignored completely. Bug fixes were sporadic and alot of the time open doors to new bugs in its place.
Greed, you had some good points and I can agree with almost all of them, but finding those features took time and a whole lot of paitence, which is something alot of MMO players sorely lack.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
A lot of SWGs features could have been great, but there is a bigger problem and it's the company behind it. SoE likes to pile feature on top of feature without improving or making sure they work. Since day one SoE has added and added and added more stuff, while ignoring everything in the past and not attempting to fix it.
SoE will never catch up. People were impatient and unwilling to learn, now they are that plus wanting a fully polished game. Something SoE will never be capable of delivering. No amount of time in the world would have saved SWG. They should stick to milking people of their money in EQ, but then again I'm sure the TCG is filling their pockets. Now that I think about it, maybe the problem is those letting SoE take advantage of them. I guess that's not for me to decide.
Great post. I don't know about best MMO ever (I still vote for the original AC), but it did have some great features. To me it was game that parts of the game that rocked and parts that just sucked. I'm with you in hoping that SW:TOR doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater and leaves some of that open, real world flavor.
I suppose I'm one of those "haters" grandpagamer is always going on about... so here comes my viscous attack!!
Great post OP!
Sadly, this is one (along with DAoC) that I really regret missing out on. I have friends that used to play it, so I relive the memories through them
I'm sure it deserves several awards from what I hear.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
A lot of SWGs features could have been great, but there is a bigger problem and it's the company behind it. SoE likes to pile feature on top of feature without improving or making sure they work. Since day one SoE has added and added and added more stuff, while ignoring everything in the past and not attempting to fix it.
SoE will never catch up. People were impatient and unwilling to learn, now they are that plus wanting a fully polished game. Something SoE will never be capable of delivering. No amount of time in the world would have saved SWG. They should stick to milking people of their money in EQ, but then again I'm sure the TCG is filling their pockets. Now that I think about it, maybe the problem is those letting SoE take advantage of them. I guess that's not for me to decide.
BOTH posts are great observations!!!
Sadly, I feel SWG's days are numbered. In his interview with Massivley, this is how Smedley replied to the question about both games (SWG and ToR) co-existing:
We would be happy to do that. The question is, is there enough of a subscriptions base for that. I'm anxious to play that game too, I think they're going to make a great game. Is there still going to be a subscriptions base for Galaxies, or will everyone go play the new game?
If the subscriber numbers were a concern on October 27th, 2008, I have no doubt they're an even BIGGER concern now.
I agree with the OP.
Heck, I'm still looking for a suitable alternative.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
Guess it wasnt so devastating after all.
Can't disagree with the OP, unfortunately I missed out on this game and sort of wish I had given it a go back in the day. (Was busy playing DAOC then)
Then again, some of the former players are so damaged and bitter maybe it was best that I did miss it, I might be hating all MMORPG's today like they seem to be.
So I'll vote SWG the best game I've never played.... (course, I missed out on UO, AC, EQ1, AO as well so what do I know?)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I too miss, like the Dickens, SWG pre-NGE. It was, and still is, in my very humble opinion, the best MMO game I have ever played. Yes, there were things wrong with the game, but EVERY game has issues. There isn't one game on the market today that does not have some.
I still to this day miss everything SWG:PreNGE had to offer. And few, if any games, have even come remotely close to having the sheer number of activities and features that game has. I will never forget the many houses I built from the ground up. I personally crafted the house, all the furniture inside and any other non-craftable item I wanted, I went and got / farmed / bought. What other game can you claim that? There may be one, but I haven't played it.
My most favorite part of SWG, that I despise SoE for taking is without a doubt, the 32 profession system. I loved the fact that I could be anything I wanted, even odd combinations you wouldn't expect. When I got bored of being one profession, I could simply train my character into something else. The ONLY thing I disliked about the system was that skills were completely forgotten once switched. I would have much prefered to be able to switch back and forth from any profession(s) I previously trained. No, i'm not saying I wanted to be all at once. I simply wanted to be able to interchange them, once I trained them first.
Will SW:ToR give me anything close to what SWG:PreNGE had? Not a chance in hell. With eight locked classes, that kills the whole skill tree thing. I don't forsee SW:ToR getting anywhere near the features that SWG:PreNGE had either.
It truly saddens me how much I miss SWG. I have never had such a desire to play a game that I once played in the past. But no, I will not return to it after SoE's behavior about the NGE. I cannot and will not support a company that treats its paying customers so callously and negatively.
I am totally with you OP. I, along with many others, will never be able to enjoy an MMO in the way we did SWG. I also truly believe that my MMO enjoyment has been forever tarnished, even if ever so slightly, simply because I was able to play such a great game. Now I am forever stuck to compare all future MMO games to it. And sadly, I think none will ever be able to compete.
Maligar Kelison
Threat Removal
Amen.
M M O S S I N C E |1998|
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w w w . c l o w n g u i l d . o r g
Glad to hear you are on the road to recovery.
Just out of interest, when was the last time you logged into SWG?
Maybe a year and a half, that sounds about right. Every time I get my mindset into sci-fi and Star Wars I get tempted to see it again.
SWG was indeed fantastic. I really miss it, greatest time I've ever had gaming.
No. He won't. No one should need to give pause when deciding to post their opinion here on MMORPG.com.
Consider that your warning to anyone thinking of doing so.
LOL @ the warning :P
Grandpagamer...debate is not "hate". Whether I agree with you or disagree with you, I like to think you're mature enough to handle differences in opinion - which is really what all our bickering and discussion boils down to. Some of us simply "hate" the direction SWG has chosen to take...but that's not for this thread. Just don't assume we're attacking when all we're doing is discussing different opinions.
Irish, GREAT POST!!! I could not agree more.
You said you always thought combat "blew" and again, I agree, but isn't that a main reason we saw the CU and NGE - to help "improve" the combat experience? In your opinion, did either update help? Can you expand on what you didn't like about the combat? Was it the speed? The pace? The NPC AI? Was it the NPCs shooting through walls? The lack of "gore"? The lack of true 3D? What exactly made combat "blow"?
I guess I just always found the combat to feel a bit clunky and unheroic. I know "heroic combat" is a dangerous word to sling around as it draws comparison to TOR, which isn't my intent.
I loved combat rolling, going prone for better accuracy, and even my time as a TKM, but from the get-go, I never felt it was suitable for incorporating PvP, or really very compelling.
For lack of a better explanation, it just never "felt" right to me.
CU and NGE really didn't do anything for me, to be honest. By the time NGE had come around, I had resubbed my fair share due to the players dispersing, dead cities, and general discontent from the CU.
I didn't think the CU was a step in any direction but backwards, really. SOE should have taken combat one step forward at a time, rather than the giant leap into uncertainty they did.
The NGE just WoW'd the game down to a casual level, and I couldn't deal with it. Though, it's not a bad thing to make things friendlier for new players and bring in some new clientele, the first rule of good business is to not dick over those who have backed you from the beginning.
NGE really made me feel like I was playing a crappy, barren WoW. I felt like I was doing the game I used to play a disservice by accepting it's change. "SWG, you are beautiful. Don't ever change!" All my stuff was there, but it was in this crappy new game that made the people who earned stuff like Jedi-status no more special than the rookie who started a jedi toon.
And then, I pressed the space bar while running outside Coronet getting the mechanics back down. That was really the end-all be-all. I don't want to think about it....
I'd really hate to talk any more about the whole SOE/CU/NGE factor, as that really doesn't hit the target I was aiming for in my original post, but to sum it up; they didn't help a game that needed love and affection like SWG.
Sorry everyone for the late responses. Getting back on my feet and doing better, thanks a lot!