Great reply. I am overwhelmed by your intelligent answer. You must be working in NASA. If not, you are even above that. How can I listen to something that is not written? Oh right, you expect me to play MMO's for your pleasures sake...? Yeah right. Will never happen. Not even if you paid me. 0.00000000000000001/10
Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Great reply. I am overwhelmed by your intelligent answer. You must be working in NASA. If not, you are even above that. How can I listen to something that is not written? Oh right, you expect me to play MMO's for your pleasures sake...? Yeah right. Will never happen. Not even if you paid me. 0.00000000000000001/10
Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.
Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.
Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only. Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.
Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.
Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.
Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only. Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.
Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.
Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only. Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.
Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.
Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.
How "appropriate" to compare FPS with an MMO. Why not even compare it with Guitar Hero too? Jeez.... Epic fail.
.
So you assume everyone are on sites like these before buying a game... Interesting view you have upon the world. If you even can understand there is a real world exisiting outside your box, which I doubt. Your approach is pretty selfish, narrowminded & egocentric.
How about those who is so kind that buys a game for someone elese as a gift? They should too check sites like these before buying an MMO?
Why you say I want to take away content from you? I am not after taking anything away from you, rest assured. I only ask for content that suits my playstyle. Now tell me, give me one single example of any MMO that has nothing to offer to a group-fanatic. Just give me one single example. Please. With Sugar on top.
Actually, I was about to buy DDO a few days after it's release. Fortunately did my brother play it, and he strongly adviced me to stay the heck away from it cause it was utter garbage. Now, did I know it was for groups only before he told me? You really expect that people should investigate the games before they buy it? LoL. You are quite pathetic. I buy a game for my own pleasure's sake. I do not want to a play a game for other peoples pleasure. You act selfish and righteous as a group fanatic, but when a soloer does the same, well, it seems all hell breaks loose.
Recent time has taught me to investigate game before I buy them. Earlier years I bought them without hesitating, accepting them as they were. Without any whining; I just left them. Those days are definately gone. Do I expect the same for others? No. Should a gaming company expect the same from their customer/players. Of course not. When you buy an MMO it should clearly state whether it has something or nothing to offer for soloers or not. Or in other words; if its a group based MMO. If players had this warning, from the game producer, it would definately be much easier to decide whether or not to buy it.
By any chance; you are'nt one of those group-fanatics that thinks the MMO is a degenerating genre?
And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only. Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.
Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.
Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.
Good thing then that we have true heroes like Conan. Unfortunately there exist no MMO yet that lets you play like one...
Still, you have not given any reason why it is so obvious that MMO's should have content for groups only, other than that it is 'fairly obvous'. If thinking does hurt, why not copy & paste my post next time if you have nothing to add but what I just said?
Why you say I want to take away content from you? I am not after taking anything away from you, rest assured. I only ask for content that suits my playstyle. Now tell me, give me one single example of any MMO that has nothing to offer to a group-fanatic. Just give me one single example. Please. With Sugar on top.
Random insults: part 2...
Recent time has taught me to investigate game before I buy them. Earlier years I bought them without hesitating, accepting them as they were. Without any whining; I just left them. Those days are definately gone. Do I expect the same for others? No. Should a gaming company expect the same from their customer/players. Of course not. When you buy an MMO it should clearly state whether it has something or nothing to offer for soloers or not. Or in other words; if its a group based MMO. If players had this warning, from the game producer, it would definately be much easier to decide whether or not to buy it. By any chance; you are'nt one of those group-fanatics that thinks the MMO is a degenerating genre?
You ask for content that suits your playstyle, and doesn't suit mine. Selfish.
WoW has the content so far in the game that I can't reach it. If I had the patience to get to 80 then that's fine, but the 1-79 is what makes it impossible for me. Hey, I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.
Every idiot who doesn't look into the game before they buy it (or is a 10 year old) deserves what they're getting. Yes, I expect people to look into the games they buy, or they're wasting 80 bucks for some absolute garbage at worst. To some people that matters (obviously not you since you didn't seem to care at first- good to have rich parents I guess). If you don't care enough to at least watch a review or two and spend 80 bucks on something you have no idea about, then I actually hope that the game sucks. That kind of idiot deserves to be punished.
I can't believe you're even arguing this. Really, think what you want but I'm not one to encourage stupid behaviour such as this. There are enough stupid people in the world already.
The genre isn't degenerating, it's just stagnant. And I'm getting to play a game I've been wishing for, so no, I don't think the genre is degenerating. In the end whatever you say doesn't matter; I'm here just to spend time until that game is released anyway.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
If you feel insulted for something posted by me, please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat.
Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man.
If you feel insulted for something posted by me, please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat. Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man. /bearhug
If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.
You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.
I'd question this statement as it applies to WoW.
I solo quite a lot, and there are numerous situations where I'm forced to be careful. It can be when I'm playing a class that doesn't do well against multiple enemies and in a situation where I may get swamped. It can simply be when attempting a quest that is (numerically) a tad above me characters ability to handle.
Sometimes I die. Sometimes I have to run. Sometimes I take a beating and have to use consumables to get myself back in fighting shape. Certain classes really don't solo well.
I've also noticed that soloers outlevel content rather quickly. This means that I often end up doing "green" quests, where the mob kills give reduced XP. I also have a character that I'm duoing with a guildmate; we don't outlevel content but seem to progres at a much faster pace than I do solo.
That said, if your preference is for group grinding, then yeah .. WoW doesn't cater to you at all.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Good thing then that we have true heroes like Conan. Unfortunately there exist no MMO yet that lets you play like one... Still, you have not given any reason why it is so obvious that MMO's should have content for groups only, other than that it is 'fairly obvous'. If thinking does hurt, why not copy & paste my post next time if you have nothing to add but what I just said?
There is really no need to insult someone who is simply trying to discuss something with you. Thinking does not hurt - why would it? I shall try to give you a more specific example to indicate why I feel an MMO should have group content.
Let's suppose an MMO wanted to capture the 'spirit' of an epic encounter such as that in Lord of the Rings at Minas Tirith or a real life battle such as Rorke's Drift (Zulu), and they go to the trouble of designing a location which needs defending with a large group of people. You appear to be suggesting one of two things:
1) They shouldn't produce group only content, so such an idea should be abandoned
OR
2) The event should be scalable.
Taking option (1) would seam remarkable defeatist for a Multi-player game, whereas option (2) would just devalue the encounter and make it feel less epic. Part of the essence of these scenarios is the way the group works together in its defence of key areas. A one-man defence of Minas Tirith would be so ridiculous it would just compromise the whole world created.
Surely it would be equally wrong to have a game event like the Assault on the Death Star (in Star Wars) possible to complete solo. I would love a game that designed something with such epic scope and would consider it just silly if this could be done solo. In the original film, despite Luke's Jedi powers, it was the assistance of Han Solo that cleared the way to his target by removing Darth Vader and made it possible for him to destroy the structure.
I'm not an expert on Conan, but I'm fairly sure he doesn't do everything solo either.
If you feel insulted for something posted by me, please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat. Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man. /bearhug
If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.
You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.
What is your problem??
This happened BEFORE your reply! Reality check; You ARE a liar! You posted untrue things about me without proving it. Well, dunno what world you are living in, but in the real world that is actually what liars do: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie[/url]
On top of this you act "offended" because I compare this behavior to a rambling man. Oh dear. Want some cheese to all that whine?
Talk about twisting and turning. What are you after here? To provoke and incite flaming? Well actually, I probably shouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Actually, you are giving me plenty of reasons to avoid any further discussion with you, cause I have no idea what you are trying to express me/us here. This is far out.
I am glad the MMO's have reduced the catering to group-fanatics. Personally I find the biggest reason to stay away from MMO's with forced grouping is to be avoiding persons like you. It is definately true that the more solo content an MMO have the better the community is.
I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.
I'd question this statement as it applies to WoW.
I solo quite a lot, and there are numerous situations where I'm forced to be careful. It can be when I'm playing a class that doesn't do well against multiple enemies and in a situation where I may get swamped. It can simply be when attempting a quest that is (numerically) a tad above me characters ability to handle.
Sometimes I die. Sometimes I have to run. Sometimes I take a beating and have to use consumables to get myself back in fighting shape. Certain classes really don't solo well.
I've also noticed that soloers outlevel content rather quickly. This means that I often end up doing "green" quests, where the mob kills give reduced XP. I also have a character that I'm duoing with a guildmate; we don't outlevel content but seem to progres at a much faster pace than I do solo.
That said, if your preference is for group grinding, then yeah .. WoW doesn't cater to you at all.
Yeah, it's not that I hate soloing, but I just seem to hit a wall on it after like, 30 levels.. and am too bored to continue. Dunno why. It's the reason I never got too far in WoW though.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
What is your problem?? This happened BEFORE your reply! Reality check; You ARE a liar! You posted untrue things about me without proving it. Well, dunno what world you are living in, but in the real world that is actually what liars do: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie[/url] On top of this you act "offended" because I compare this behavior to a rambling man. Oh dear. Want some cheese to all that whine? Talk about twisting and turning. What are you after here? To provoke and incite flaming? Well actually, I probably shouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Actually, you are giving me plenty of reasons to avoid any further discussion with you, cause I have no idea what you are trying to express me/us here. This is far out. I am glad the MMO's have reduced the catering to group-fanatics. Personally I find the biggest reason to stay away from MMO's with forced grouping is to be avoiding persons like you. It is definately true that the more solo content an MMO have the better the community is.
I'd like to ask, what is Your problem?
Letting one sentence get in the way of otherwise fine argument. You've said stupid things in this thread before, but I haven't backed up either way.
Now we can continue having a discussion about me, but I'd rather discuss the topic at hand. And for that I had a perfectly good argument going earlier, so if you want to continue the post is there. If not, at least stop with that "holier than thou" attitude, it's dumb.
You are not here for provoking and flaming, talking about group-"fanatics" like you do? Even in your sig you have provoking statement. Pot, meet the kettle..
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Soloers have killed the genre. It was a coop system with roleplaying, now is singleplayer game with a monlty fee, but as a singleplayer games the "MMO" part make so the game must be generic and trivial, there can't be world changes, etc.. so most MMORPG games are boring and pointless games, most RPG games are better at RP.
The genre is dead, a beatifull thing is DEAD, and we have to thanks the soloers.
Someone call the whaaaambulance! Seems like some group-fanatic died from sorrow...
From joke to revolver though:
Funnily enough, theres no evidence that the MMO genre is 'dead' or 'degenerating'. In fact, everything is pointing to the opposite. The MMO genre is healthier than ever, and it also provides more fun than ever before. If this have cost some group-fanatic's life, well so be it. If it will cost some more, well, I could care less. The less group-fanatics & 'old-school' MMO'ers around, the better MMO community there is.
I feel a great joy in my heart when I read all the despair from the group-fanatics here. This looks real good for the future of the MMO's! The more you whine, the more you show that solo content is needed.
Please; more whine please. Your tears are excellent polish for my mighty Retribution Paladin's armor that soloes his way through everything!
I think the original essence of the MMO was about true multiplayer.. MULTI-PLAYER. yes we all have to solo and you cant find a group 24/7 but i still like and prefer group play, its fun. I love how everyone compares everything to WoW.. WoW did this best, WoW did that..WOWOWOWOWOW.
WoW had some good features, but they didnt create the mold, blizzard simply expanded on whats already been going on, added a nice instance feature and a pretty game world. Now In a previous post it said something about how WoW did the grouping perfectly. I disagree, i didnt play alot, but played enough to get 40 and raid, and saw where the general direction was going. I dont agree with having to raid as much as you do for the gear. You go with 24 or 40 people now and you have to raid and raid and raid to get your turn for one piece of gear.. time dump anyone?? you betcha.
Diablo was and still is a great game, and blizzard had a good concept, make alot of gear that drops randomly and go fight for it. It keeps you wanting more because you know there is better gear and always something to strive for. They packaged that idea with an MMO, and now we have WoW. However, one main difference is Diablo has, and hopefully never will be setup like grouping/raiding is in WoW.
Its always amusing to watch people justify the need to enforce grouping by falling back on the inaccurate interpretation of the word "Multi-player". Let us take a moment to review the word again: Multi-player. Look it up and one finds that it is defined as meaning multiple players playing same game at the same time. That is it, nothing else. No mention or implication of grouping, soloing or anything. It's only the "old school" games that enforced grouping because the devs didn't have the time nor the imagination to provide enough content for each individual player. Please guys, stop using this as a justification for wanting more grouping and less soloing. It's an inaccurate justification.
Besides, solo'ers aren't to blame for a lack of grouping in games. They are just making use of the facilities that the devs have given them. It's not their fault that certain individuals who crave only grouping can't find groups. Such people should blame the devs for not having the imagination or insight to provide MMO's with the necessary encouragement for people to WANT to group. And I'm not just talking about implementing a difference in the potency of items obtained by the different playstyles. There are other ways to encourage each of them.
I'm willing to bet that if the devs suddenly removed soloing from certain MMO's, then there wouldn't actually be a proportional increase in grouping actvitity. In fact, I bet that MMO populations would probably show a marked decrease, because those games wouldn't be as much fun to as many people. At this point, some might say "well thats fine by me, what's your point?" Well think what would happen if such a decrease meant the demise of your beloved MMO because not enough people are playing it due to the stubborn attitude of the devs.
MMOS are epic fail if they are just for groups. Really who wants to group just to gather crafting materials. There is nothing wrong with some solo content. Honestly with all the people in mmos now there is more and more reason to solo. The games are filled with people I really don't want to associate with in game or real life. I log on to my game look for a group to do something if nothing is going on I want to do i go do some solo stuff or log on an alt. Problem I have when i do pugs at least in WoW and when i tried Coh was people talking about doing drugs, getting drunk or having sex and they would have names like Ipwnurmom and noidntfngheal.. I don't mind doing single group content but outside of pvp or rvr warfare I see no reason for raids.
Originally posted by Tarka I'm willing to bet that if the devs suddenly removed soloing from certain MMO's, then there wouldn't actually be a proportional increase in grouping actvitity. In fact, I bet that MMO populations would probably show a marked decrease, because those games wouldn't be as much fun to as many people. At this point, some might say "well thats fine by me, what's your point?" Well think what would happen if such a decrease meant the demise of your beloved MMO because not enough people are playing it due to the stubborn attitude of the devs.
I don't want soloing removed. Especially for things like resource gathering. I just want better rewards and encouragements to grouping. Such as group suggested quest lines, group experience bonuses and dungeon experience bonuses. Not one quest at the end of a chain needing a group, but the whole chain from start to finish. Exclusive group content is good too. Making grouping effective as a leveling tool, not just a dungeon crawl. While I would love a game with a heavy group focus, there will always be soloing avenues. There are a lot of games with solo focus, why can't us groupers get a chance? Too many group encouragements make soloers whine the game isn't solo friendly.
For me the best game is Afterworld, it is good to play solo but when you are in a society there are allways people willing to join in a little hunting or pvp fun oh and for the ones not in a society there are also allways peeps who want to join in some fun
I have two opinions on this. The first is that the vocal minorities at either extreme of the "group - solo" spectrum need to stop believing that they have a right to dictate the playstyles of other people. I pay my subscription fee, so I make the decisions on how I choose to spend my time in-game. I'm sure most people feel the same. The second is that these same people need to accept that their preferences are niche, and as such will not be catered for in the majority of MMOs no matter how bitterly they complain about it on forums, or how vehemently they belittle the "mainstream" preferences and playstyles.
How many threads have you seen start up where a solo player attacks group players for their playstyle preference? In my experience, I've seen NONE.
On the other hand, this board is inundated with groupies attacking solo'ers and questioning why they play MMO's in the first place, as though enjoying solo content = hating group content. So I'd rethink your suggestion that each side bears equal emnity toward the other. This certainly is not the case on this board. Solo players want to play the way they want to play, and groupies want to insult them for it.
But there is a reason for this, and the reason is simply that games are becoming more and more solo friendly. Devs are beginning to understand that most people prefer to game like they live their lives; about 70-80% on their own while grouping together for something fun. People don't go to the grocery store in a group, drive to work in a group, often don't even work in a group. We don't usually come home to eat dinner in a group, watch TV in a group, go to sleep in a group.
But some fun, special things we like to do in a group. We do them and have a good time. And whether we do things solo or in a group, we prefer to do them in a community where we have the choice to be alone or group with others. Most "solo-friendly" games provide that choice, while "group oriented" games do not.
Comments
Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.
Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.
Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.
Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.
Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.
Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.
Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.
Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.
Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.
Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.
Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.
Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.
How "appropriate" to compare FPS with an MMO. Why not even compare it with Guitar Hero too? Jeez.... Epic fail.
.
So you assume everyone are on sites like these before buying a game... Interesting view you have upon the world. If you even can understand there is a real world exisiting outside your box, which I doubt. Your approach is pretty selfish, narrowminded & egocentric.
How about those who is so kind that buys a game for someone elese as a gift? They should too check sites like these before buying an MMO?
Why you say I want to take away content from you? I am not after taking anything away from you, rest assured. I only ask for content that suits my playstyle. Now tell me, give me one single example of any MMO that has nothing to offer to a group-fanatic. Just give me one single example. Please. With Sugar on top.
Actually, I was about to buy DDO a few days after it's release. Fortunately did my brother play it, and he strongly adviced me to stay the heck away from it cause it was utter garbage. Now, did I know it was for groups only before he told me? You really expect that people should investigate the games before they buy it? LoL. You are quite pathetic. I buy a game for my own pleasure's sake. I do not want to a play a game for other peoples pleasure. You act selfish and righteous as a group fanatic, but when a soloer does the same, well, it seems all hell breaks loose.
Recent time has taught me to investigate game before I buy them. Earlier years I bought them without hesitating, accepting them as they were. Without any whining; I just left them. Those days are definately gone. Do I expect the same for others? No. Should a gaming company expect the same from their customer/players. Of course not. When you buy an MMO it should clearly state whether it has something or nothing to offer for soloers or not. Or in other words; if its a group based MMO. If players had this warning, from the game producer, it would definately be much easier to decide whether or not to buy it.
By any chance; you are'nt one of those group-fanatics that thinks the MMO is a degenerating genre?
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.
Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.
Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.
Good thing then that we have true heroes like Conan. Unfortunately there exist no MMO yet that lets you play like one...
Still, you have not given any reason why it is so obvious that MMO's should have content for groups only, other than that it is 'fairly obvous'. If thinking does hurt, why not copy & paste my post next time if you have nothing to add but what I just said?
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
You ask for content that suits your playstyle, and doesn't suit mine. Selfish.
WoW has the content so far in the game that I can't reach it. If I had the patience to get to 80 then that's fine, but the 1-79 is what makes it impossible for me. Hey, I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.
Every idiot who doesn't look into the game before they buy it (or is a 10 year old) deserves what they're getting. Yes, I expect people to look into the games they buy, or they're wasting 80 bucks for some absolute garbage at worst. To some people that matters (obviously not you since you didn't seem to care at first- good to have rich parents I guess). If you don't care enough to at least watch a review or two and spend 80 bucks on something you have no idea about, then I actually hope that the game sucks. That kind of idiot deserves to be punished.
I can't believe you're even arguing this. Really, think what you want but I'm not one to encourage stupid behaviour such as this. There are enough stupid people in the world already.
The genre isn't degenerating, it's just stagnant. And I'm getting to play a game I've been wishing for, so no, I don't think the genre is degenerating. In the end whatever you say doesn't matter; I'm here just to spend time until that game is released anyway.
If you feel insulted for something posted by me, please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat.
Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man.
/bearhug
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.
You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.
I'd question this statement as it applies to WoW.
I solo quite a lot, and there are numerous situations where I'm forced to be careful. It can be when I'm playing a class that doesn't do well against multiple enemies and in a situation where I may get swamped. It can simply be when attempting a quest that is (numerically) a tad above me characters ability to handle.
Sometimes I die. Sometimes I have to run. Sometimes I take a beating and have to use consumables to get myself back in fighting shape. Certain classes really don't solo well.
I've also noticed that soloers outlevel content rather quickly. This means that I often end up doing "green" quests, where the mob kills give reduced XP. I also have a character that I'm duoing with a guildmate; we don't outlevel content but seem to progres at a much faster pace than I do solo.
That said, if your preference is for group grinding, then yeah .. WoW doesn't cater to you at all.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
There is really no need to insult someone who is simply trying to discuss something with you. Thinking does not hurt - why would it? I shall try to give you a more specific example to indicate why I feel an MMO should have group content.
Let's suppose an MMO wanted to capture the 'spirit' of an epic encounter such as that in Lord of the Rings at Minas Tirith or a real life battle such as Rorke's Drift (Zulu), and they go to the trouble of designing a location which needs defending with a large group of people. You appear to be suggesting one of two things:
1) They shouldn't produce group only content, so such an idea should be abandoned
OR
2) The event should be scalable.
Taking option (1) would seam remarkable defeatist for a Multi-player game, whereas option (2) would just devalue the encounter and make it feel less epic. Part of the essence of these scenarios is the way the group works together in its defence of key areas. A one-man defence of Minas Tirith would be so ridiculous it would just compromise the whole world created.
Surely it would be equally wrong to have a game event like the Assault on the Death Star (in Star Wars) possible to complete solo. I would love a game that designed something with such epic scope and would consider it just silly if this could be done solo. In the original film, despite Luke's Jedi powers, it was the assistance of Han Solo that cleared the way to his target by removing Darth Vader and made it possible for him to destroy the structure.
I'm not an expert on Conan, but I'm fairly sure he doesn't do everything solo either.
If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.
You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.
What is your problem??
This happened BEFORE your reply! Reality check; You ARE a liar! You posted untrue things about me without proving it. Well, dunno what world you are living in, but in the real world that is actually what liars do: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie[/url]
On top of this you act "offended" because I compare this behavior to a rambling man. Oh dear. Want some cheese to all that whine?
Talk about twisting and turning. What are you after here? To provoke and incite flaming? Well actually, I probably shouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Actually, you are giving me plenty of reasons to avoid any further discussion with you, cause I have no idea what you are trying to express me/us here. This is far out.
I am glad the MMO's have reduced the catering to group-fanatics. Personally I find the biggest reason to stay away from MMO's with forced grouping is to be avoiding persons like you. It is definately true that the more solo content an MMO have the better the community is.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'd question this statement as it applies to WoW.
I solo quite a lot, and there are numerous situations where I'm forced to be careful. It can be when I'm playing a class that doesn't do well against multiple enemies and in a situation where I may get swamped. It can simply be when attempting a quest that is (numerically) a tad above me characters ability to handle.
Sometimes I die. Sometimes I have to run. Sometimes I take a beating and have to use consumables to get myself back in fighting shape. Certain classes really don't solo well.
I've also noticed that soloers outlevel content rather quickly. This means that I often end up doing "green" quests, where the mob kills give reduced XP. I also have a character that I'm duoing with a guildmate; we don't outlevel content but seem to progres at a much faster pace than I do solo.
That said, if your preference is for group grinding, then yeah .. WoW doesn't cater to you at all.
Yeah, it's not that I hate soloing, but I just seem to hit a wall on it after like, 30 levels.. and am too bored to continue. Dunno why. It's the reason I never got too far in WoW though.
I'd like to ask, what is Your problem?
Letting one sentence get in the way of otherwise fine argument. You've said stupid things in this thread before, but I haven't backed up either way.
Now we can continue having a discussion about me, but I'd rather discuss the topic at hand. And for that I had a perfectly good argument going earlier, so if you want to continue the post is there. If not, at least stop with that "holier than thou" attitude, it's dumb.
You are not here for provoking and flaming, talking about group-"fanatics" like you do? Even in your sig you have provoking statement. Pot, meet the kettle..
Soloers have killed the genre. It was a coop system with roleplaying, now is singleplayer game with a monlty fee, but as a singleplayer games the "MMO" part make so the game must be generic and trivial, there can't be world changes, etc.. so most MMORPG games are boring and pointless games, most RPG games are better at RP.
The genre is dead, a beatifull thing is DEAD, and we have to thanks the soloers.
Someone call the whaaaambulance! Seems like some group-fanatic died from sorrow...
From joke to revolver though:
Funnily enough, theres no evidence that the MMO genre is 'dead' or 'degenerating'. In fact, everything is pointing to the opposite. The MMO genre is healthier than ever, and it also provides more fun than ever before. If this have cost some group-fanatic's life, well so be it. If it will cost some more, well, I could care less. The less group-fanatics & 'old-school' MMO'ers around, the better MMO community there is.
I feel a great joy in my heart when I read all the despair from the group-fanatics here. This looks real good for the future of the MMO's! The more you whine, the more you show that solo content is needed.
Please; more whine please. Your tears are excellent polish for my mighty Retribution Paladin's armor that soloes his way through everything!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think the original essence of the MMO was about true multiplayer.. MULTI-PLAYER. yes we all have to solo and you cant find a group 24/7 but i still like and prefer group play, its fun. I love how everyone compares everything to WoW.. WoW did this best, WoW did that..WOWOWOWOWOW.
WoW had some good features, but they didnt create the mold, blizzard simply expanded on whats already been going on, added a nice instance feature and a pretty game world. Now In a previous post it said something about how WoW did the grouping perfectly. I disagree, i didnt play alot, but played enough to get 40 and raid, and saw where the general direction was going. I dont agree with having to raid as much as you do for the gear. You go with 24 or 40 people now and you have to raid and raid and raid to get your turn for one piece of gear.. time dump anyone?? you betcha.
Diablo was and still is a great game, and blizzard had a good concept, make alot of gear that drops randomly and go fight for it. It keeps you wanting more because you know there is better gear and always something to strive for. They packaged that idea with an MMO, and now we have WoW. However, one main difference is Diablo has, and hopefully never will be setup like grouping/raiding is in WoW.
Its always amusing to watch people justify the need to enforce grouping by falling back on the inaccurate interpretation of the word "Multi-player". Let us take a moment to review the word again: Multi-player. Look it up and one finds that it is defined as meaning multiple players playing same game at the same time. That is it, nothing else. No mention or implication of grouping, soloing or anything. It's only the "old school" games that enforced grouping because the devs didn't have the time nor the imagination to provide enough content for each individual player. Please guys, stop using this as a justification for wanting more grouping and less soloing. It's an inaccurate justification.
Besides, solo'ers aren't to blame for a lack of grouping in games. They are just making use of the facilities that the devs have given them. It's not their fault that certain individuals who crave only grouping can't find groups. Such people should blame the devs for not having the imagination or insight to provide MMO's with the necessary encouragement for people to WANT to group. And I'm not just talking about implementing a difference in the potency of items obtained by the different playstyles. There are other ways to encourage each of them.
I'm willing to bet that if the devs suddenly removed soloing from certain MMO's, then there wouldn't actually be a proportional increase in grouping actvitity. In fact, I bet that MMO populations would probably show a marked decrease, because those games wouldn't be as much fun to as many people. At this point, some might say "well thats fine by me, what's your point?" Well think what would happen if such a decrease meant the demise of your beloved MMO because not enough people are playing it due to the stubborn attitude of the devs.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
MMOS are epic fail if they are just for groups. Really who wants to group just to gather crafting materials. There is nothing wrong with some solo content. Honestly with all the people in mmos now there is more and more reason to solo. The games are filled with people I really don't want to associate with in game or real life. I log on to my game look for a group to do something if nothing is going on I want to do i go do some solo stuff or log on an alt. Problem I have when i do pugs at least in WoW and when i tried Coh was people talking about doing drugs, getting drunk or having sex and they would have names like Ipwnurmom and noidntfngheal.. I don't mind doing single group content but outside of pvp or rvr warfare I see no reason for raids.
I don't want soloing removed. Especially for things like resource gathering. I just want better rewards and encouragements to grouping. Such as group suggested quest lines, group experience bonuses and dungeon experience bonuses. Not one quest at the end of a chain needing a group, but the whole chain from start to finish. Exclusive group content is good too. Making grouping effective as a leveling tool, not just a dungeon crawl. While I would love a game with a heavy group focus, there will always be soloing avenues. There are a lot of games with solo focus, why can't us groupers get a chance? Too many group encouragements make soloers whine the game isn't solo friendly.
For me the best game is Afterworld, it is good to play solo but when you are in a society there are allways people willing to join in a little hunting or pvp fun
oh and for the ones not in a society there are also allways peeps who want to join in some fun 
A free mmorpg more based on solo?
Any?
How many threads have you seen start up where a solo player attacks group players for their playstyle preference? In my experience, I've seen NONE.
On the other hand, this board is inundated with groupies attacking solo'ers and questioning why they play MMO's in the first place, as though enjoying solo content = hating group content. So I'd rethink your suggestion that each side bears equal emnity toward the other. This certainly is not the case on this board. Solo players want to play the way they want to play, and groupies want to insult them for it.
But there is a reason for this, and the reason is simply that games are becoming more and more solo friendly. Devs are beginning to understand that most people prefer to game like they live their lives; about 70-80% on their own while grouping together for something fun. People don't go to the grocery store in a group, drive to work in a group, often don't even work in a group. We don't usually come home to eat dinner in a group, watch TV in a group, go to sleep in a group.
But some fun, special things we like to do in a group. We do them and have a good time. And whether we do things solo or in a group, we prefer to do them in a community where we have the choice to be alone or group with others. Most "solo-friendly" games provide that choice, while "group oriented" games do not.
I play mostly solo with a bit of grouping if someone needs an extra to fill out the group.
Its just this simple, whether others like it or not, I enjoy playing solo with other players around.
It doesn't matter if others cannot get their heads around that or not.
I enjoy it so I do it.
OMG we dont need a sticky for this it will never end.