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The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Hyanmen 
    Does it matter in the end? Will you simply get said drops and rewards in few hours no matter which playstyle you choose? If it takes a day or two in the first place, it's irrelevant. If you can just solo a few levels in couple of hours and buy a better set from an NPC than the gear you would have gotten from the group dungeon was, that's not really enough advantage.

    You asked me to provide evidence that a game caters to both playstyles. I show you a game that does, and now you're delving off into a tangent regarding which is the more attractive playstyle. That's not the issue. It's not the question you asked.

    AoC offers viable gameplay for solo and group players.

    Ball is in your court; counter or concede.

     

    You didn't really offer anything. If what I said is true, then grouping is still inferior compared to soloing, which would frankly not make it cater to my playstyle. For the reason of, you know, me not being content about being inferior, as selfish as that may sound (lol).

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    So you should be rewarded because you are at the mercy of the stupidity of others? if your group is bad and you wipe then that group deserves nothing.

     

    I only wouldn't like it to be inferior compared to soloing. Being at the mercy of others' stupidity is one of the things that makes it inferior in a (from a non-extremists standpoint) "equal environment".

    If 5 guys in my group are good and one idiot causes the wipe then the 5 others deserve nothing? Mmmkay.

     Im talking about group dynamics. you're talking about individual skill. if the group has one idiot, then have the 5 guys vote him out of the group.

    Anyway, the rewards for success in a group are also greater, so it all balances out in the end.

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    But the rewards for success in a group are also greater, so it all balances out in the end.

     

    Ohoho, but are they? That's what I've been talking about. Make the grouping have Enough benefits soloers won't get, and then it'll be equal. However, no game like this has been since the dark ages.

    "Im talking about group dynamics. you're talking about individual skill. if the group has one idiot, then have the 5 guys vote him out of the group."

    We don't know about his (lack of) skill before he fucks up. And kicking him out just because of a hunch is quite rude, which isn't really common behaviour in a group based MMO in the first place, where you need other people to succeed.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    But the rewards for success in a group are also greater, so it all balances out in the end.

     

    Ohoho, but are they? That's what I've been talking about. Make the grouping have Enough benefits soloers won't get, and then it'll be equal. However, no game like this has been made as of yet.

     

    I think you missed a few posts. Can you solo tier 10 in wow? No. You have to group, either in a raid or a 5-man. That is fact. I mean, cmon man, what do you want? Do you really want the world and beyond for the group and a lollypop for the soloer?

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    But the rewards for success in a group are also greater, so it all balances out in the end.

     

    Ohoho, but are they? That's what I've been talking about. Make the grouping have Enough benefits soloers won't get, and then it'll be equal. However, no game like this has been made as of yet.

     

    I think you missed a few posts. Can you solo tier 10 in wow? No. You have to group, either in a raid or a 5-man. That is fact. I mean, cmon man, what do you want? Do you really want the world and beyond for the group and a lollypop for the soloer?

    Are there enough benefits to group 1-80(85?) in WoW? No. The game is unbalanced mess when it comes to playstyles, so I wouldn't take that as an example for anything regarding these issues.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • chriselchrisel HuttiheitaPosts: 995Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by chrisel


    You whining group-fanatics/"old-schoolers"; why don't you play a CORPG game instead of MMO's?
    There are so many obvious reasons why you should do that, heres a few:
    -Most of you seem to hate soloers.
    -You want to group up; in CORPG you can group with just the one you like, Your decisions. No need to group up with suckers like the soloers.
    -Scale content with addons. Which means "challenging" in your eyes.
    -MMO's are complete & utterly boring by your standards. Which is for me the most obvious reason why you should leave the whole MMO genre and never ever look back.
    .
    Merry Christmas

    Ohoh, "holier than thou" candidate #3 enters the building. Most of us seem to hate soloers, cause we're the baaad guys. We hate everyone. So glad there are people like you in the world though, the white knights of this cruel planet.

    I'm not planning to leave- why would I do that, a game for my standards is being made currently (AAA game too, gasp shock faint).

     

    Hey Mr Selfrighteous. Funny how you say this, as I thought it myself; Group-fanatics do seem to hate everything. Including themself. Why would them else ruing a genre they participate in?

    So my suggestion stand still, I suggest; Group-fanatics should play CORPG's since MMO's have outgrown 'most' group-fanatics. Well, there might be hope for a few like you, if it is true what you say; there is an MMO currently under construction. I do not know which game this would be, but I am quite sure group-fanatics will whine about that being too solo-friendly too pretty soon... sigh.

    /bearhug

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Hyanmen 
    Does it matter in the end? Will you simply get said drops and rewards in few hours no matter which playstyle you choose? If it takes a day or two in the first place, it's irrelevant. If you can just solo a few levels in couple of hours and buy a better set from an NPC than the gear you would have gotten from the group dungeon was, that's not really enough advantage.

    You asked me to provide evidence that a game caters to both playstyles. I show you a game that does, and now you're delving off into a tangent regarding which is the more attractive playstyle. That's not the issue. It's not the question you asked.

    AoC offers viable gameplay for solo and group players.

    Ball is in your court; counter or concede.

    You didn't really offer anything. If what I said is true, then grouping is still inferior compared to soloing, which would frankly not make it cater to my playstyle. For the reason of, you know, me not being content about being inferior, as selfish as that may sound (lol).

    I'll take your inability to counter as a concession.

    And a well timed one, 'cos I'm off.

    Merry Christmas, all!

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chrisel


     
     Why would them else ruing a genre they participate in?

     

    That seems to be your "theme" as to say. I won't dwelve into that now, maybe later. Now I'll just wish you a merry christmas.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    I'll take your inability to counter as a concession.
    And a well timed one, 'cos I'm off.
    Merry Christmas, all!

     

    Saving face attempt accepted, no hard feelings.

    Merry xmas.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen



    Are there enough benefits to group 1-80(85?) in WoW? No. The game is unbalanced mess when it comes to playstyles, so I wouldn't take that as an example for anything regarding these issues.

     

    Unless you're not interested in fun, no I guess there arent any benefits. I leveled to 80  in wow solo, and in groups. I had alot more fun in a group. It was a small group, granted. in fact it was just me and nother person, so a duo team. But still a group. Leveling alone was boring and not much faster.If i had done it with a pug then it wouldnt be fun at all tbh. being friends with the people in your group is key for me.

    and the key word here is fun. Some people play the game for that, others dont. Different strokes for different folks, they say. And true it is.

    image

  • mmoluvammoluva Pittsburg, CAPosts: 310Member

    I enjoy solo play but I also like when I need a group to break the monotony.

  • chriselchrisel HuttiheitaPosts: 995Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    But the rewards for success in a group are also greater, so it all balances out in the end.

     

    Ohoho, but are they? That's what I've been talking about. Make the grouping have Enough benefits soloers won't get, and then it'll be equal. However, no game like this has been made as of yet.

     

    I think you missed a few posts. Can you solo tier 10 in wow? No. You have to group, either in a raid or a 5-man. That is fact. I mean, cmon man, what do you want? Do you really want the world and beyond for the group and a lollypop for the soloer?

    Are there enough benefits to group 1-80(85?) in WoW? No. The game is unbalanced mess when it comes to playstyles, so I wouldn't take that as an example for anything regarding these issues.

     

    The biggest benefit from doing anything should be whatsoever you say; fun.

    Fun, unfortunately enough, seem to be non-existant in your world, as you seem to only center your talk around gear & loot. Poor soul.

    /pat /pat

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    Unless you're not interested in fun, no I guess there arent any benefits. I leveled to 80  in wow solo, and in groups. I had alot more fun in a group. It was a small group, granted. in fact it was just me and nother person, so a duo team. But still a group. Leveling alone was boring and not much faster.
    Key word here is fun. Some people play the game for that, others dont. Different strokes for different blokes, they say. And true it is.

     

    If "fun" means "some soloer wants to try out grouping, fucks up the whole experience for everyone, I log out pissed" then no, I'm not interested. I can't say for sure but I doubt you had fun in these kind of situations either. I agree, leveling alone is boring.

    Grouping is a weird animal; it needs a push to become as "fun" as soloing. I'm sure it would be more popular if that were to be done, too. And that's what this forced grouping fellow is asking for; a push. Hopefully santa will grant me that wish.

    Merry xmas to you.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen 
    Merry xmas to you.

     

    christmas means nothing to me, but thanks, and for you too =)

    image

  • tvalentinetvalentine San Clemente, CAPosts: 4,216Member
    Originally posted by Archemorous

    Originally posted by Hyanmen 
    Merry xmas to you.

     

    christmas means nothing to me, but thanks, and for you too =)



     

    funny how the person who says christmas means nothing to him spells out the holiday name fully rather then saying "xmas". Always been one of my pet peeves, has been people saying "xmas", if you look at the spelling, you notice that it x's out a specific part of the name of the holiday. Anyways sorry to go off-topic, but thanks for spelling it out fully, even if it means nothing to you

     

    as for soloing and grouping. I like a mixture of both tbh. If i solo i wouldnt expect the same rewards as people in a group, but that all depends on the situation i guess. In Eve 1 person can kill a group of people and take all their loot, although a group of organized people can kill a couple dozen ships in one day and get a nice reward, although split. So in pvp terms, i guess if your skilled enough, you should be rewarded nicely. In pve though, they should keep the hardest monsters dropping the best loot, hard monsters that require a group of people that is. Again like in eve, some of the best rewards are in wormholes, and the higher (or is it lower?) class of wormholes, the mobs are stronger and you need a fleet, so they get more and better loot, while the solo person can only stay in a lower class of wormhole and get the minimum of rewards although still a decent amount.

     

    Not sure how accurate my statement of wormholes are, never been inside them or pved much in eve. So i dunno if you can solo in one. But IMO a good game needs to have both solo and grouping.

    and merry christmas.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLPosts: 2,601Member

    Halpot rocks.

     

    And... Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone!

    EVE Online: 'Dominion' Trailer Now on YouTube
    "...if there is a fair fight happening in new eden, both fcs did something wrong." - batolemaeus

  • HalpotHalpot CantabrigiaPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by LynxJSA


    Halpot rocks.
     
    And... Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone!



     

    Thanks, and same to you.

    Let's get this thread back on track though, please ;)

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by toddze


    My opinion: If you want to play solo, play a SINGLE player game. If you want to play with other people play a MULTIPLAYER game. Playing solo in a multiplayer game is an oxymoron.



     

    Playing solo in a mulitplayer game is kinda dumb, but thankfully we are talking MMORPG's here and not just multiplayer games.

    MMORPG have room for both and many type of playstyle's, one might enjoy grouping allot, one might enjoy solo allot, thankfully MMORPG can give us this.

    What many seem not able to understand is that solo players  "can" be very social, they don't need a group to be social there are so many activities that can be done with other people without grouping with them, there "can" be crafting where people help each other out either with resources, or simple things like sharing good harvest locations, what about something as simple as just helping other people in chat/ help channel, again very social.

    Groupers, the same thing they can be very helpfull with helping other complete some missions/quest/dungeon, they might have certain knowledge about instances/caves/dungeons/boss encounters that can help defeating it.

    Personaly I think to many people especially on forums like this have a very narrowminded view on both solo player and groupers.

    Over the years I became more and more a solo player, reason is that about 80% of my time I wanted to group it made my experiance not a nice one, people didn't talk in groups and if they did it was often Hi and Bye when they completed their quests, over the years it's always a handfull of people who actually wanted to group for social/exploring/discovering reasons, these day's the majority I encounter is more like "I need a grou cause I need to complete something" or mainly because of the benifiths, the adventure part has lost it's way's with the majority of groups I personaly encountered (keep in mind only talking about my own experiance, so someone else his or her experiance might be different.

    While I might have become a more solo player I am still very social, in crafting, in helping with all sorts of things and perhaps this might sound arrogant but many people I help(ed) ingame often ask if they can add me to their friends list because of the great help I gave them, in FE a few even said they should pay me for the help I give to many people.

    Overall I wish people could let people play MMORPG they way they want. Unless other people want to pay MY sub-fee I see no reason why others should dictate how I should play.

    Another things I don't mind if I don't get that Epic loot because I choose to solo, I don't need the game to catter to only me cause to me there is room for all sorts of gameplay aslong people have fun playing games in this genre. Al I want is to have freedom, meaning I don't want a MMORPG to force me in any way, not force me to solo and not force me to group.

  • chrisb500chrisb500 atlanta, GAPosts: 2Member

    Someone might have said it..but IMO Guild Wars did it best..You can solo or you can group up.

    Need fresh gear?
    www.karmaloop.com
    Use repcode chrisb500 for 20% Off

  • madjackredmadjackred Greensburg, PAPosts: 36Member

    Moslty I solo.  That's because I generally don't like to group with idiots or people I wouldn't hang out with in RL.  I also rarely know how much time I'll be able to invest at a sitting and don't want too be that guy who bails out a thrid of the way into a raid or task force type event.  So if my wife or a friend is the particular game I feel like playing at a given time, then I'll group and have a great time.  Sometimes I'll get on  PUG if I need it for a quest or want a change of pace, and I might or might not add someone to the list of people I'll group with.  But games with forced grouping, even if it's just content too heavilly skewed in that direction, are a No Go.  I've spent too much time in years past waiting around for an instance, raid or whatever while someone tries to find a healer or pally or whatever.  I've spent too much time losing XP because the only group available for this or that zone or instance couldn't cross the street together or even clean their collective backside with both hands and a fire hose.  My gameplay experience should not be limited because some chowderhead can't survive on his own or feels "It's just not right to be able to play solo!  Go play Dragonage if you don't want to group!  Waaahh!" 

    Considering how many people like to both solo and group depending on their mood, available playtime and such, smart developers will provide enough content to allow both a rich solo and group experiencel.

  • SilverminkSilvermink Cape Coral, FLPosts: 289Member

    I am looking for a game that rewards grouping fully. The book quests in Lotro would of been great if they had been group from beginning to end. Give groups a reason to stick together, long rewarding quest lines, or interesting multi-tree'd dungeons. I also would like equipment removed from the majority of quests. Make simple crafting for generic equipment and multi quest chains or exotic crafting recipes or dungeon crawls for gear. I'd also like to see some sort of crafting grouping in a game sometimes. Not just the current multi-craft recipes, but recipes that require 3 or 4 separate people to be grouped at the same time to fashion a special item.

     

    While making all classes able to solo at all times, I don't have a problem with some classes being much more difficult to solo with. I would like to see a game that no class could solo multiple even level mobs, or mobs of higher level. Never understood the idea of someone killing mobs higher in level. 

     

    This game won't appeal to the WoW masses so it probably will be a long wait. If well programmed, it would have a following large enough to be profitable though. Way too many easy, solo to max games and burn through end game out already. Nostalgia for EQ1 pre-pop runs rampant. And going back would be as rewarding for me at least. Even the progression was fun, but it wasn't fully back to the way EQ1 was. Camping orcs and dervs in WC with a pug group, watching out for giants, was a good thing for me.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    I recall back in the day when you could purchase a single player RPG and it would last weeks and in some cases even months... Games like Ultima 4-7 and The Magic Candle, even some of the earlier Might and Magic games as well... Games like Ultima 4 advertised 400+ hours and if you played through the entire game as intended it was a very rewarding experience

     

    These games were all awesome and full of imersion and depth for their time, and when you stopped playing, you couldn't wait to play again... Today it is VERY rare that a good single player RPG is made, companies like Bioware are successful at it based on a long standing reputation as a premier RPG developer based on the strength of their Baldur's Gate series. But still even with how awesome Dragon Age is.... I go out and spend $50 on the game only to get at most 40 hours out of it? For companies today to develop an RPG is such a huge risk, they still cost a ton to make but provide the least amount of return on investment compared to some of these bubble gum pop games or even these games hammered out to meet some latest movie franchise.

     

    The only REAL alternative for an RPG enthusiast is to play an MMORPG, they are (mostly) very rich with decent imersion and character development and are constantly evolving (well in some cases also devolving) with content and expansions that are funded by subscriptions. I mean would you pay $10-15 a month to play a single player game if they promised a continuous development cycle? If you answered YES well you are probably the minority...

     

    I enjoy soloing in MMO's in doing so I am in charge of my pace and destiny, grouping is merely a means of getting something done I can't on my own...

     

    Lastly, I hate you all, the amount of douchebaggery, epeen, leetism etc... I wouldn't be friends with you all IRL, so why the hell would I want to be "eFriends" with you... MMO communities are the equivalent of kids running around with magnifying glasses burning ants on the ground... No one plays games anymore for the fun of it, it is a constant "trophy hunt" to show "I am better than joo"... Hell I am old school, I want to have fun in a game and I want to have my fun on my own terms.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • chriselchrisel HuttiheitaPosts: 995Member

    I can assure you all here there are LOTS of fun stuff to do in an MMO that does'nt require you to be in a group.

    To information; there are many other and important aspects of an MMO rather than levels. I point this fact especially at alll those narrowminded group fanatics who's locked in their eternal denial bubble.

    Now, can ANYONE here give me one good reason why we should be forced into to a Group against our will?

    I also have this question to the group-fanatics; You whine so much about MMO's are degenerating that is has become a gnall in our ears. Now, what is the solution of this "problem" which seem only to exist in your own brains? Let me tell you this straight; if you ain't have any solution, well then you really should stop whining about it, cause then it obviously are'nt any problems.

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chrisel


    Now, can ANYONE here give me one good reason why we should be forced into to a Group against our will?

     

    Lulz-worthy statement.

    Also, if you're not willing to listen, I'm not willing to explain.

     

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • chriselchrisel HuttiheitaPosts: 995Member

    Edit: GF nagging behind me. I had 2 thread posts in my head same time.

    LoL.

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

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