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The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    So as a player who enjoys grouping and solo play, I must live in an imaginary world as well because I see the same extreme POVs that IIv is mentioning?

     
    No one is twisting anything. Look through all the topics on this subject and read through each thread. You will see every extremist view from both sides.

     

    Well, if you really want me to say it, yes.

    Someone is twisting the general opinion of the said extremists. This may come as a surprise, but in your team there are retards who spout nonsense as well as intelligent individuals with an actual point. I can come and tell you that the opinion of said retards is the opinion of everyone in your team. Now would that be twisting or not?

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    Well, in that case, this is the end of the line for me. This is where we agree to disagree =)

     

    Hey I'd believe you if you proved me how are the devs making both playstyles perfectly equal, so it would really be the individuals choice. But doing that ain't so easy as you think.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Have we forgotten the argument and moved on to witty insults already? Damn, I like long foreplay.

    You've been tossing the insults around for the past few pages already. I've been playing nice.

    No need for me to resort to a flame war on this one; not when I'm clearly correct. :)

     At least I didn't drop the argument while doing so. Can you prove me wrong or not? 

    You want me to prove that there are group/solo extremists out there?

    Answer the question in my last post.

    Then search these forums for posts by Chrisel and Ihmotepp.

    Both have, shall we say, very strong views on the solo-vs-group debate.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall




     
    Thats where the line gets a bit fuzzy.
    In almost all MMOs both can be viable and often are. The problem is which is 'preferable'?
    Both options can be equally viable, but its the player base that really decides which option is preferable in the end. Thats when you see the shit to one play style being the most popular in a game.

     

    Haha, I wish I was as naive. They're never equal. That's the problem.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    You want me to prove that there are group/solo extremists out there?
    Answer the question in my last post.
    Then search these forums for posts by Chrisel and Ihmotepp.
    Both have, shall we say, very strong views on the solo-vs-group debate.

     

    Nah, only proving the sentence in your sig wrong is fine with me. Then I'll answer the question in your post as well.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen



    Haha, I wish I was as naive. They're never equal. That's the problem.

     

    How would you make them equal? lets try being constructive, I heard good things about it =P

    image

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by fyerwall
    So as a player who enjoys grouping and solo play, I must live in an imaginary world as well because I see the same extreme POVs that IIv is mentioning?

     
    No one is twisting anything. Look through all the topics on this subject and read through each thread. You will see every extremist view from both sides.

     

    Well, if you really want me to say it, yes.

    Someone is twisting the general opinion of the said extremists. This may come as a surprise, but in your team there are retards who spout nonsense as well as intelligent individuals with an actual point. I can come and tell you that the opinion of said retards is the opinion of everyone in your team. Now would that be twisting or not?



     

    But then what team do I play for?

    I group because I like grouping and enjoy the game play.

    I solo because i like to solo now and then and enjoy the game play.

    The problem with your arguments is its just that; and argument for the sake of arguing. When someone points out POVs taht dont fit your faction vs faction argument, instead of validating your points, you just lump in a 3rd faction and then start slinging insults at the two factions that are not aligned with your own.

    You then start to claim that the words of the extremists are being twisted to seem more extreme, when if you read through their own posts you would infact see that there is no play on context.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    How would you make them equal? lets try being constructive, I heard good things about it =P

     

    Yeah that's the problem- Ilvaldyr's answer to that is gimping soloing so both playstyles have their setbacks (although I myself aren't really a fan of gimping of any kind!).

    Another way is giving benefits to groupers for the things they have to go through as opposed to soloers (time needed to find a group, bad experiences with them, general need of more playtime during one session- can't just log in, play for a few mins and log out).

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall


     
    But then what team do I play for?
    I group because I like grouping and enjoy the game play.
    I solo because i like to solo now and then and enjoy the game play.
    The problem with your arguments is its just that; and argument for the sake of arguing. When someone points out POVs taht dont fit your faction vs faction argument, instead of validating your points, you just lump in a 3rd faction and then start slinging insults at the two factions that are not aligned with your own.
    You then start to claim that the words of the extremists are being twisted to seem more extreme, when if you read through their own posts you would infact see that there is no play on context.

    Sounds quite a bit like you belong in forced grouping team to me. However that still depends on few things.

    Do you like to group majority of the time, while soloing when you feel like it? That's what would make you a part of the forced grouping league.

    Or do you like to solo majorityof the time, while grouping when you feel like it? That's what would make you part of the soloers league.

    If it's 50/50, either style works for you. You'd probably enjoy either kind of game.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    How would you make them equal? lets try being constructive, I heard good things about it =P

     

    Yeah that's the problem- Ilvaldyr's answer to that is gimping soloing so both playstyles have their setbacks (although I myself aren't really a fan of gimping of any kind!).

    Another way is giving benefits to groupers for the things they have to go through as opposed to soloers (time needed to find a group, bad experiences with them, general need of more playtime during one session- can't just log in, play for a few mins and log out).

     

    Yes, agreed. But wouldnt you also agree that if you spend 5 hours straight with a group and accomplish something cool, a soloer should also have the chance of getting something cool (not saying it should be the same item, or more powerfull, but just as unique) as well? Right now, the absolute best rewards in every mmo are for groups only. soloers have reputation items (also available for people who group) and pvp items. A player who only solos cant get tier 10 in wow. you can get some pieces of it, but you have to group (heroics for example).

    The one thing soloers have going for them is not having to deal with the jerks that are out there. Thats it basically. All the best rewards still go to groups and raids.

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    Yes, agreed. But wouldnt you also agree that if you spend 5 hours straight with a group and accomplish something cool, a soloer should also have the chance of getting something cool (not saying it should be the same item, or more powerfull, but just as unique) as well? Right now, the absolute best rewards in every mmo are for groups only. soloers have reputation items (also available for people who group) and pvp items. A player who only solos cant get tier 10 in wow. you can get some pieces of it, but you have to group (heroics for example).
    The one thing soloers have going for them is not having to deal with the jerks that are out there. Thats it basically. All the best rewards still go to groups and raids.

     

    In a soloing game, hell yeah. I don't think one really exists right now anyway- games like WoW take it far, but not till the end (you can solo to cap, but from there on you need a group. Which is quite silly in my opinion). If you make it as far as you can solo the whole game without the help of anyone, turning around near the finish line is probably the dumbest thing they could do.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    You want me to prove that there are group/solo extremists out there?
    Answer the question in my last post.
    Then search these forums for posts by Chrisel and Ihmotepp.
    Both have, shall we say, very strong views on the solo-vs-group debate.

     Nah, only proving the sentence in your sig wrong is fine with me. Then I'll answer the question in your post as well.

    Well, this is the easiest time I've ever had in qualifying a statement.

    You state that non-extremists (like me) are living in an imaginary world where extremists demand 100% soloing/grouping, and demand that I prove you wrong.

    And all I have to do is highlight the post that you apparently didn't bother to read.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Well, this is the easiest time I've ever had in qualifying a statement.
    You state that non-extremists (like me) are living in an imaginary world where extremists demand 100% soloing/grouping, and demand that I prove you wrong.
    And all I have to do is highlight the post that you apparently didn't bother to read.

     

    The irony is strong with this one. Read again:

    "The problem with non-extremists is that they live in an imaginary world where all other playstyles aren't exluded from their game. The reality, though, is much as you described.Catering to you means other playstyles are excluded."

    You live in an imaginary world where you think my playstyle isn't exluded from the game. I'm not talking about us demanding 100% soloing/grouping, I'm talking about you thinking I'm not excluded from the game that caters to you, while I am.

    As I said before, every group of people has their retards and geniuses, and my group isn't an exception. Thinking that the opinions of said retards are the opinions of the general group is what's wrong about your views.

    Now let's try this again.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    Yes, agreed. But wouldnt you also agree that if you spend 5 hours straight with a group and accomplish something cool, a soloer should also have the chance of getting something cool (not saying it should be the same item, or more powerfull, but just as unique) as well? Right now, the absolute best rewards in every mmo are for groups only. soloers have reputation items (also available for people who group) and pvp items. A player who only solos cant get tier 10 in wow. you can get some pieces of it, but you have to group (heroics for example).
    The one thing soloers have going for them is not having to deal with the jerks that are out there. Thats it basically. All the best rewards still go to groups and raids.

     

    In a soloing game, hell yeah. I don't think one really exists right now anyway- games like WoW take it far, but not till the end (you can solo to cap, but from there on you need a group. Which is quite silly in my opinion). If you make it as far as you can solo the whole game without the help of anyone, turning around near the finish line is probably the dumbest thing they could do.

    So what you want instead is a game where you cant solo to max level and cant solo at max level either, but group instead. doesnt sound very unifying to me man.

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  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Well, this is the easiest time I've ever had in qualifying a statement.
    You state that non-extremists (like me) are living in an imaginary world where extremists demand 100% soloing/grouping, and demand that I prove you wrong.
    And all I have to do is highlight the post that you apparently didn't bother to read.

     The irony is strong with this one. Read again:

    "The problem with non-extremists is that they live in an imaginary world where all other playstyles aren't exluded from their game. The reality, though, is much as you described.Catering to you means other playstyles are excluded."

    You live in an imaginary world where you think my playstyle isn't exluded from the game. I'm not talking about us demanding 100% soloing/grouping, I'm talking about you thinking I'm not excluded from the game that caters to you, while I am.

    As I said before, every group of people has their retards and geniuses, and my group isn't an exception. Thinking that the opinions of said retards are the opinions of the general group is what's wrong about your views.

    Now let's try this again.

    Nice and easy. AoC.

    It has two "copies" of every zone. One is solo. The other is group, and contains only "elite" mobs.

    Which playstyle is excluded from AoC?

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • chriselchrisel HuttiheitaPosts: 995Member

    You whining group-fanatics/"old-schoolers"; why don't you play a CORPG game instead of MMO's?

    There are so many obvious reasons why you should do that, heres a few:

    -Most of you seem to hate soloers.

    -You want to group up; in CORPG you can group with just the one you like, Your decisions. No need to group up with suckers like the soloers.

    -Scale content with addons. Which means "challenging" in your eyes.

    -MMO's are complete & utterly boring by your standards. Which is for me the most obvious reason why you should leave the whole MMO genre and never ever look back.

    .

    Merry Christmas

    Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Nice and easy. AoC.
    It has two "copies" of every zone. One is solo. The other is group, and contains only "elite" mobs.
    Which playstyle is excluded from AoC?

     

    Do the soloers get same negative aspects as the groupers do, or do the groupers get enough advantage to offset the inferior parts of grouping as compared to soloing? We've been through this before, remember?

    Simply adding zones for each playstyle isn't enough. And making the fixes I described wouldn't make it a 50/50 game anymore. People would group.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chrisel


    You whining group-fanatics/"old-schoolers"; why don't you play a CORPG game instead of MMO's?
    There are so many obvious reasons why you should do that, heres a few:
    -Most of you seem to hate soloers.
    -You want to group up; in CORPG you can group with just the one you like, Your decisions. No need to group up with suckers like the soloers.
    -Scale content with addons. Which means "challenging" in your eyes.
    -MMO's are complete & utterly boring by your standards. Which is for me the most obvious reason why you should leave the whole MMO genre and never ever look back.
    .
    Merry Christmas

    Ohoh, "holier than thou" candidate #3 enters the building. Most of us seem to hate soloers, cause we're the baaad guys. We hate everyone. So glad there are people like you in the world though, the white knights of this cruel planet.

    I'm not planning to leave- why would I do that, a game for my standards is being made currently (AAA game too, gasp shock faint).

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Nice and easy. AoC.
    It has two "copies" of every zone. One is solo. The other is group, and contains only "elite" mobs.
    Which playstyle is excluded from AoC?

     

    Do the soloers get same negative aspects as the groupers do, or do the groupers get enough advantage to offset the inferior parts of grouping as compared to soloing? We've been through this before, remember?

    Simply adding zones for each playstyle isn't enough. And making the fixes I described wouldn't make it a 50/50 game anymore. People would group.

    So..., its not about having fun while grouped, its about getting more rewards than the other guys? and not just more, but so much more that soloing seems almost like a masochistic endeavour?

    image

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


    So..., its not about having fun while grouped, its about getting more rewards than the other guys?

     

    Am I having fun in a bad group that makes me wipe?  I can tell you I'm not.

    If there wasn't any of these moodkilling aspects around, and grouping were to be truely equal with grouping, then having fun would be enough. But it's not the case. It's not always fun. Lots of times, actually, it's not fun.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Nice and easy. AoC.
    It has two "copies" of every zone. One is solo. The other is group, and contains only "elite" mobs.
    Which playstyle is excluded from AoC?

     Do the soloers get same negative aspects as the groupers do, or do the groupers get enough advantage to offset the inferior parts of grouping as compared to soloing? We've been through this before, remember?

    Simply adding zones for each playstyle isn't enough. And making the fixes I described wouldn't make it a 50/50 game anymore. People would group.

    The group instances have better drops and rewards, but that's beside the point. The question is, does AoC exclude either playstyle.

    Answer the question or concede the point. It's one or the other.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Ilvaldyr


    Nice and easy. AoC.
    It has two "copies" of every zone. One is solo. The other is group, and contains only "elite" mobs.
    Which playstyle is excluded from AoC?

     Do the soloers get same negative aspects as the groupers do, or do the groupers get enough advantage to offset the inferior parts of grouping as compared to soloing? We've been through this before, remember?

    Simply adding zones for each playstyle isn't enough. And making the fixes I described wouldn't make it a 50/50 game anymore. People would group.

    The group instances have better drops and rewards.

    Answer the question or concede the point. It's one or the other.

    Does it matter in the end? Will you simply get said drops and rewards in few hours no matter which playstyle you choose? If it takes a day or two in the first place, it's irrelevant. If you can just solo a few levels in couple of hours and buy a better set from an NPC than the gear you would have gotten from the group dungeon was, that's not really enough advantage.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • ArchemorousArchemorous Gun-GaluutPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen

    Originally posted by Archemorous


    So..., its not about having fun while grouped, its about getting more rewards than the other guys?

     

    Am I having fun in a bad group that makes me wipe?  I can tell you I'm not.

    If there wasn't any of these moodkilling aspects around, and grouping were to be truely equal with grouping, then having fun would be enough. But it's not the case. It's not always fun. Lots of times, actually, it's not fun.

     

    So you should be rewarded because you are at the mercy of the stupidity of others? if your group is bad and you wipe then that group deserves nothing.

    image

  • IlvaldyrIlvaldyr MiddlesbroughPosts: 2,142Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen 
    Does it matter in the end? Will you simply get said drops and rewards in few hours no matter which playstyle you choose? If it takes a day or two in the first place, it's irrelevant. If you can just solo a few levels in couple of hours and buy a better set from an NPC than the gear you would have gotten from the group dungeon was, that's not really enough advantage.

    You asked me to provide evidence that a game caters to both playstyles. I show you a game that does, and now you're delving off into a tangent regarding which is the more attractive playstyle. That's not the issue. It's not the question you asked.

    AoC offers viable gameplay for solo and group players.

    Ball is in your court; counter or concede.

    image
    Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Archemorous


     
    So you should be rewarded because you are at the mercy of the stupidity of others? if your group is bad and you wipe then that group deserves nothing.

     

    I only wouldn't like it to be inferior compared to soloing. Being at the mercy of others' stupidity is one of the things that makes it inferior in a (from a non-extremists standpoint) "equal environment".

    If 5 guys in my group are good and one idiot causes the wipe then the 5 others deserve nothing? Mmmkay.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
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