That's right, you heard me, I logged in for no other reason than to bitch and moan. So what's my gripe today? Hang on, I'll get to it. But first let me ask you guys something. Have you ever eagerly awaited a sci/fi or fantasy movie or TV series and then when you finally see it you discover that it was cutsyfied to appeal to little kids and it ruined it for you? Ok, hold that feeling in your mind because it pertains to my gripe on this fine day. Today I'm going to be picking on D&D online although this could surely apply to a large number of games. So D&D went free to play and I thought to myself, "Might as well give it a try." So I did that yesterday. I didn't really expect much to be honest but there's always that little part of my mind that hopes for something good when I try a new game. That little part of my mind conjures up vague images of pulse-pounding adventures, desperate touch and go fights, exploring an unknown world, and other good stuff. Alright, let me get to the main part of the post. I made a barbarian and loaded into the game. Some guy (npc) gave me a rusty ax and told me where to go. I had no real choice because there was only one place I could go. I suppose this conveniently eliminates any chance that I might be too stupid to find my way. So off I go, following the yellow brick road...er...whatever. Oh, look, barrels and boxes along the side of the road. Whack 'em and money falls out. Um...what? Who the f--k would leave money lying around in a barrel on the side of a road? And why didn't those NPCs get pissed off at me when I whacked the barrel right in front of them and took the money which was presumably theirs? Oh, crap, old roleplaying instincts and common sense are messing me up again. Sometimes I forget that I'm in candyland. Ok, I told myself, just whack the pinatas and take the candy...er...money..and shut up. So I did and continued on my way to see this npc I was told to find. "I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderfull wizard of Oz", I sang to myself as I followed the road collecting candy...er..money. Very quickly I found the wiz...er...the npc. "Blah, blah, blah follow me", she said. Okie dokey. Now at this point I'm in a dungeon, right? Dungeons are supposed to be scary places filled with dangerous creatures, right? Hey, the npc said so and she wouldn't lie, right? But you know what? It wasn't scary and the creatures weren't dangerous. It was just whackity whackity whack and they all fall down. A new song came to mind and I hummed it as I slaughtered the hapless, helpless creatures. "Ring around the rosie, pockets full of posies, ashes, ashes, you all fall down." I felt kind of sorry for the poor things but I guess I was expected to kill them so I did. When we got done with this dungeon the gal (npc) who led me through it had a reward for me. Oh look, it's a firey ax! Oooooo, shiney! It's all firey and stuff! Really? A flaming ax? Right out of the gate? Oh, wait...I'm in candyland, sometimes I forget. Ok, so then I was in a village. It was the typical sort of thing where quest giving npc's stand around with neon signs over their heads. They all wanted to tell me where to go for some reason. I guess I must look stupid. So they gently told me where to go and sent me off with a pat on the head. Yay! Adventure! So I did some more dungeons....whackity whackity whack...."Ashes, ashes, you all fall down." Going through those dungeons there was never a moment of trepidation on my part. Never for one second did I think to myself, "Hmm, this could be dangerous." And even if I had died I'm pretty sure I wouldn't lose anything so what is there to be afraid of even if the creatures could hurt me. I suppose they make games that way so as not to hurt anyones' feelings. I mean, you wouldn't want some little kid to get his ass handed to him and NOT feel like the worlds greatest hero, right? /sigh...oh, sorry...I mean, um...WEEE FUN! I'M A HERO, I'M A HERO! LOOK AT ME MOMMY, I'M A HERO! And each time I finished a dungeon/quest a nice npc gave me some more candy. Oooooo, shiney! Well, I could go on with this but I'm sure you all get the picture. This is just another example of where we are with mmorpgs today. We're not in dark, dangerous worlds full of real adventure. No, we're in Candyland.
so you think this is somhow special and related to D&D?
you can enter every newbie zone in almost every other game and you might expierience the same.
so what is the point of your post? ultra mega hard uber newbie zones???
Originally posted by Caleveira What was camp about it? It was the freaking flintstones! I had to deal with lost baggage in an "airport" for dragons because the guest GM decided "airline" employees didnt care for my "attitude" regarding their service... We had peanuts and an inflight movie!
Er...wow.
Are you really blaming the IP for your DM being bad? Really?!
LOL, no, that was a guest GM and we never had him over again. But source material actually was full of dumb stuff like that; magical post services, magical factories with production lines, gryphons and pegassi actually being used for mundane tasks, a magic telecomunications sector... They actually had a mythic creature (cant remember the name, it was originally intended to lurk in dungeons underground of manned forts) that would eat sewage, so even modern utility services were posible through magic... And really you dont want to get into gnomish lore, lets just say it coulve been the work of Eric Cartman.
Like i said, freaking flintstones...
So you didn't like the setting. Good for you, try not to impose it on anyone.
And adding "lol" to your post really makes you mature, y'know.
Just sayin', but the Mundane Utility is one of my favourite tropes. Why? Because it makes sense in a naturally evolving universe. Because it made sense in ours.
"Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", after all.
And on this "stops being magic" comment... You know, magic being forced into formulas and used for battles? That's not magic! Now "clap your hands, turn around and really-really believe", now that's what I call magic!
Ahem. The games are still CRPG classics, with advanced rulesets, good storyline and deep immersive gameplay. Final Fantasy IS the WoW of Single-player RPGs.
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep. Oh, but i could save that in casette format...
I remember that little classic of yours, you couldnt create a bloody character in that one either.
Planescape was all looks but no depth, we only tried that game because of the aesthetics but the lore was disapointing. Here you are exploring the afterworld in all its complexity just to find a few bosses with the customary high hit point count.
Campaign settings did once in a while offer good mechanics and decent reading but overall they were just hyped fluff. Their evil legacy on computer games lies precisely in the idea that a new "theme" and the same old monsters with a revamped look is all thats required for an expansion. Planescape borrowed its imagery from other sources and itself left nothing. Other than the popularity of drow elves you could very much say the same of Forgotten Realms. Final Fantasys bland and simplistic elements were state of the art for its time.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep. Oh, but i could save that in casette format...
I remember that little classic of yours, you couldnt create a bloody character in that one either.
Planescape was all looks but no depth, we only tried that game because of the aesthetics but the lore was disapointing. Here you are exploring the afterworld in all its complexity just to find a few bosses with the customary high hit point count.
Campaign settings did once in a while offer good mechanics and decent reading but overall they were just hyped fluff. Their evil legacy on computer games lies precisely in the idea that a new "theme" and the same old monsters with a revamped look is all thats required for an expansion. Planescape borrowed its imagery from other sources and itself left nothing. Other than the popularity of drow elves you could very much say the same of Forgotten Realms. Final Fantasys bland and simplistic elements were state of the art for its time.
Oh, but at least you could influence him, both story- and progression-wise. You weren't confounded to the rails, like you always are in FF.
FFs look good, but, like with women, I prefer some maturity, and an opportunity to have a good talk.
P.S. Have we derailed this thread enough?
P.P.S. And why are you speaking, like you are some kind of a representative for the entire PnP player population? I know a lot of PnPers, who adore these games. Speak for yourself, buddy.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
@ Goronian; I was giving my opinion at OP, youre the one who got it in you to derail the thread. And it is your friends, who actually played pnp D&D that should rebuke me, not you. Do you always answer posts on subjects on which you have no experience? Please, by all means enlighten me some more on this subject youre clueless about.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Originally posted by Goronian P.S. Have we derailed this thread enough?
You dang nerds spewing all your nerd stuff all over my thread!
Heh, actually it's fine. I get the impression that only a few people understood what I was trying to say anyway. I think we've reached the point of having a clear generation gap among mmo gamers such that the younger often lack a common frame of reference with the older and so sometimes it's like trying to explain "blue" to a color blind person.
Oh, and please don't take offense at the nerd comment. I once programed a TRS-80 with a bunch of monster info and combat tables and stuff to make DMing games a little easier so I meant no ill by that comment.
Originally posted by Caleveira What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep.
When you post your opinion please try to say "this is my opinion" and not "I speak with the will of all PnP gamers". One makes you look considerably more foolish than the other.
Especially since I played PnP RPGs, and videogame RPGs and have thoroughly enjoyed both.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Caleveira What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep.
When you post your opinion please try to say "this is my opinion" and not "I speak with the will of all PnP gamers". One makes you look considerably more foolish than the other.
Especially since I played PnP RPGs, and videogame RPGs and have thoroughly enjoyed both.
Grow up, that was the third time i had to repeat myself so maybe it wasnt the best phrasing. And wouldnt you question someones good sense if they thought what i said was more fact than opinion? Quoting something out of context is an easy thing to do... And what about your opinion is exactly relevant to anything? We were discussing wether old school D&D players generally liked other D&D products (IMO only by exception) not which games are more enjoyable... If youre gonna attack what i say, you should at least have a clue as to what i was saying... unbelievable...
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Know what? i deleted it after less than an hour.It is an ancient looking game,barely suitable for a console effort.It looks like a console game from long ago.Very simplistic in every approach of the game,i was so turned off,i didn't even need to think twice about removing from HD.
It will never return to a pay game,i actually cannot believe it ever was a p2p game,heck F2P games are better than that junk.This game will very obviously die out very soon.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I liked the orgininal grey box Forgetten Realm setting and the Undercity Frogetten Realm setting. Not sure about all the lame crap you are talking about. But back in the late 1980's and early 1990's when Forgetten Realms first started it was good. Not sure what your purist ideas are unless you are playing with Red, White and Blue boxes of DnD. Even in those magic was essential to everything your character did. That is what set your character apart from the muldane in those was that you had magic. I remember when DnD was only a paper pamplet that laid out rules. I remember when it only used 6 sided dice. Ah those were so long ago. Dragonlance the original modules were a great story. Doing your own stuff in Dragonlance is stupid the history is laid out. It would have been fun to be in the group when the DM played out the story of Dragonlance and the players decided this would make a great story.
Grow up, that was the third time i had to repeat myself so maybe it wasnt the best phrasing. And wouldnt you question someones good sense if they thought what i said was more fact than opinion? Quoting something out of context is an easy thing to do... And what about your opinion is exactly relevant to anything? We were discussing wether old school D&D players generally liked other D&D products (IMO only by exception) not which games are more enjoyable... If youre gonna attack what i say, you should at least have a clue as to what i was saying... unbelievable...
I was talking about D&D PNP and D&D videogames. Therefore my opinion is plenty relevant as it directly contradicts your whole "all oldschool D&D gamers hate D&D videogames" rant.
I could extend things to say that I think you're ridiculous for fixating so much on disliking mudane magickry, but that's just your opinion so I figured there was no point. But when you started sounding like you were talking for all oldschool D&D players, that's where you're being foolish.
I mean if you wanted to criticize many D&D games for having lackluster combat systems, I'd be behind that. Despite telling excellent stories, that's the main reason they haven't been masterpieces of gaming. Eye of the Beholder was the only D&D game I really enjoyed a lot, largely because it adapted the combat system in a unique and actiony way. (although man, I tried the DS version of it not too long ago and that's gotta be one of the worst game ports I've ever played.)
Still, the excellent stories make the majority of D&D games worth playing despite lousy combat.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I liked the orgininal grey box Forgetten Realm setting and the Undercity Frogetten Realm setting. Not sure about all the lame crap you are talking about. But back in the late 1980's and early 1990's when Forgetten Realms first started it was good. Not sure what your purist ideas are unless you are playing with Red, White and Blue boxes of DnD. Even in those magic was essential to everything your character did. That is what set your character apart from the muldane in those was that you had magic. I remember when DnD was only a paper pamplet that laid out rules. I remember when it only used 6 sided dice. Ah those were so long ago. Dragonlance the original modules were a great story. Doing your own stuff in Dragonlance is stupid the history is laid out. It would have been fun to be in the group when the DM played out the story of Dragonlance and the players decided this would make a great story.
Our box was the 1993 edition (just looked it up) we were playing AD&D 2nd edition, so we may have gotten diferent books. And we tried almost any RPG system or game out there, from Call of Ctchulhu to LOTR. We came to realize you need nothing but dice, pen and paper to roleplay so we may have become purists in the end.
I stand by my critique of Forgotten Realms, even if perhaps i couldve phrased things better. The writing was subpar and the setting unimaginative, even then i knew better although i indulged in those books. We usually dont like to say this, but this games were an abuse and a dirty business. One or two books woulve been enough to play the game, but they were printing material by the ton in an almost quaterly basis and we were unexperienced enough to think we would be missing out on something if we didnt buy... And quality was really lacking, they even skimped on ilustrations (other than the cover ofc). We were smart enough to share expenses on my group but i knew people that were buying everything themselves, looking back on it it does seem like a waste... Forgotten Realms was probably the worst in that it failed to even try to provide quality, stand alone adventures were pretty much sad jokes.
The whole point about forgotten realms was imitation (it became blatant in the end) of the renaissance world with silly names. Of other TSR licenced settings. And Ed Greenwood playing Elminster a la Richard Garriott. And a modern Flintstones type world through magic. You maybe had a diferent experience but this is my side of things.
ed; spelling
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Grow up, that was the third time i had to repeat myself so maybe it wasnt the best phrasing. And wouldnt you question someones good sense if they thought what i said was more fact than opinion? Quoting something out of context is an easy thing to do... And what about your opinion is exactly relevant to anything? We were discussing wether old school D&D players generally liked other D&D products (IMO only by exception) not which games are more enjoyable... If youre gonna attack what i say, you should at least have a clue as to what i was saying... unbelievable...
I was talking about D&D PNP and D&D videogames. Therefore my opinion is plenty relevant as it directly contradicts your whole "all oldschool D&D gamers hate D&D videogames" rant.
I could extend things to say that I think you're ridiculous for fixating so much on disliking mudane magickry, but that's just your opinion so I figured there was no point. But when you started sounding like you were talking for all oldschool D&D players, that's where you're being foolish.
I mean if you wanted to criticize many D&D games for having lackluster combat systems, I'd be behind that. Despite telling excellent stories, that's the main reason they haven't been masterpieces of gaming. Eye of the Beholder was the only D&D game I really enjoyed a lot, largely because it adapted the combat system in a unique and actiony way. (although man, I tried the DS version of it not too long ago and that's gotta be one of the worst game ports I've ever played.)
Still, the excellent stories make the majority of D&D games worth playing despite lousy combat.
I wasnt out to attack D&D videogames, as you can read in the thread the whole thing got so mixed up with the Forgotten Realms thing it kind of devolved into flaming... Youre right i dont speak for all old schoolers. I will say most of the people ive kept in touch with do agree with my pov.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
I guess to each their own Forgotten Realms is the most successful created realm that D&D ever put out in sales, books, reviews, and player used setting. I would have to put it down to your DM not adapting the realm to fit what you wanted.
That's right, you heard me, I logged in for no other reason than to bitch and moan. So what's my gripe today? Hang on, I'll get to it. But first let me ask you guys something. Have you ever eagerly awaited a sci/fi or fantasy movie or TV series and then when you finally see it you discover that it was cutsyfied to appeal to little kids and it ruined it for you? Ok, hold that feeling in your mind because it pertains to my gripe on this fine day. Today I'm going to be picking on D&D online although this could surely apply to a large number of games. So D&D went free to play and I thought to myself, "Might as well give it a try." So I did that yesterday. I didn't really expect much to be honest but there's always that little part of my mind that hopes for something good when I try a new game. That little part of my mind conjures up vague images of pulse-pounding adventures, desperate touch and go fights, exploring an unknown world, and other good stuff. Alright, let me get to the main part of the post. I made a barbarian and loaded into the game. Some guy (npc) gave me a rusty ax and told me where to go. I had no real choice because there was only one place I could go. I suppose this conveniently eliminates any chance that I might be too stupid to find my way. So off I go, following the yellow brick road...er...whatever. Oh, look, barrels and boxes along the side of the road. Whack 'em and money falls out. Um...what? Who the f--k would leave money lying around in a barrel on the side of a road? And why didn't those NPCs get pissed off at me when I whacked the barrel right in front of them and took the money which was presumably theirs? Oh, crap, old roleplaying instincts and common sense are messing me up again. Sometimes I forget that I'm in candyland. Ok, I told myself, just whack the pinatas and take the candy...er...money..and shut up. So I did and continued on my way to see this npc I was told to find. "I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderfull wizard of Oz", I sang to myself as I followed the road collecting candy...er..money. Very quickly I found the wiz...er...the npc. "Blah, blah, blah follow me", she said. Okie dokey. Now at this point I'm in a dungeon, right? Dungeons are supposed to be scary places filled with dangerous creatures, right? Hey, the npc said so and she wouldn't lie, right? But you know what? It wasn't scary and the creatures weren't dangerous. It was just whackity whackity whack and they all fall down. A new song came to mind and I hummed it as I slaughtered the hapless, helpless creatures. "Ring around the rosie, pockets full of posies, ashes, ashes, you all fall down." I felt kind of sorry for the poor things but I guess I was expected to kill them so I did. When we got done with this dungeon the gal (npc) who led me through it had a reward for me. Oh look, it's a firey ax! Oooooo, shiney! It's all firey and stuff! Really? A flaming ax? Right out of the gate? Oh, wait...I'm in candyland, sometimes I forget. Ok, so then I was in a village. It was the typical sort of thing where quest giving npc's stand around with neon signs over their heads. They all wanted to tell me where to go for some reason. I guess I must look stupid. So they gently told me where to go and sent me off with a pat on the head. Yay! Adventure! So I did some more dungeons....whackity whackity whack...."Ashes, ashes, you all fall down." Going through those dungeons there was never a moment of trepidation on my part. Never for one second did I think to myself, "Hmm, this could be dangerous." And even if I had died I'm pretty sure I wouldn't lose anything so what is there to be afraid of even if the creatures could hurt me. I suppose they make games that way so as not to hurt anyones' feelings. I mean, you wouldn't want some little kid to get his ass handed to him and NOT feel like the worlds greatest hero, right? /sigh...oh, sorry...I mean, um...WEEE FUN! I'M A HERO, I'M A HERO! LOOK AT ME MOMMY, I'M A HERO! And each time I finished a dungeon/quest a nice npc gave me some more candy. Oooooo, shiney! Well, I could go on with this but I'm sure you all get the picture. This is just another example of where we are with mmorpgs today. We're not in dark, dangerous worlds full of real adventure. No, we're in Candyland.
Sooooo... basically you're judging the whole game off of your experience on "newbie island"? It's supposed to be EZ-Moad, fyi. Also melee classes breeze through the newbie island better than say a wizard or a sorc, especially if you set the difficulty for the missions on "solo". I'm guessing you also weren't smart enough to figure out your quest chain led you into the tavern to advance in the game, so after the three quests in n00b isle, you got butthurt, and came here to bitch. You'd be an awesome reviewer for IGN, though, you should check that out.
I blame Blizzard, however, for popularizing the "Barrel Breaking" thing. Ever since Diablo I, beating the hell out of barrels so they drop stuff as if they were piñatas have been the acceptable way of getting loot w/o treasure chests oddly placed in the middle of nowhere, or monsters of no value carrying epic armor or weapons of awesomeness for no reason whatsoever.
If you don't like MMO's idea of random loot, object destruction, and conceptual ideas that a musclebound person is going to destroy things with ease... then Animal Crossing may be more your speed. It in a sense has questing, is goal oriented, and has the feel of collecting things that aren't like flaming axes... but very pretty clothes! Kids seemed to love that game.
If you still need a MMO fix, try The Endless Forest. No general chat, no spam, no flaming item shit... it's pretty realistic and may be more up "your alley" so to speak.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Sooooo... basically you're judging the whole game off of your experience on "newbie island"? It's supposed to be EZ-Moad, fyi. Also melee classes breeze through the newbie island better than say a wizard or a sorc, especially if you set the difficulty for the missions on "solo". I'm guessing you also weren't smart enough to figure out your quest chain led you into the tavern to advance in the game, so after the three quests in n00b isle, you got butthurt, and came here to bitch. You'd be an awesome reviewer for IGN, though, you should check that out.
I blame Blizzard, however, for popularizing the "Barrel Breaking" thing. Ever since Diablo I, beating the hell out of barrels so they drop stuff as if they were piñatas have been the acceptable way of getting loot w/o treasure chests oddly placed in the middle of nowhere, or monsters of no value carrying epic armor or weapons of awesomeness for no reason whatsoever.
If you don't like MMO's idea of random loot, object destruction, and conceptual ideas that a musclebound person is going to destroy things with ease... then Animal Crossing may be more your speed. It in a sense has questing, is goal oriented, and has the feel of collecting things that aren't like flaming axes... but very pretty clothes! Kids seemed to love that game.
If you still need a MMO fix, try The Endless Forest. No general chat, no spam, no flaming item shit... it's pretty realistic and may be more up "your alley" so to speak.
I don't think Diablo was the first one, however I'm not sure
And I kinda agree with the OP, that the newbie zone should at least represent the things to come. As it is, it's much easier and much better-looking, than the rest of the zones, so that's not very fair to the player.
And AC is a grindfest so boring, eve I couldn't stand it. You literally do NOTHING all day.
And don't recommend EF to anyone, unless you want to permanently damage their brain.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I guess to each their own Forgotten Realms is the most successful created realm that D&D ever put out in sales, books, reviews, and player used setting. I would have to put it down to your DM not adapting the realm to fit what you wanted.
Wouldnt put it on my DM, guy did a good job and we were a tough group to handle. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, it just wasnt quality material IMO.
@ Goronian; Aparently you had to take a cheap shot at me on the other thread before they locked it down. I really have no interest of having you troll me every time i post (yea, i did notice a pattern once we started discussing here) but im not backing down either (not after what you said) so since you were the last to make an attack i suggest you quit while youre ahead and stop addressing whatever post i make, otherwise ill guess we will have to just flame each other until we are both banned.
Get someting straight, i may be against political correctness but your comment crossed a line.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Originally posted by Lansid I'm guessing you also weren't smart enough to figure out your quest chain led you into the tavern to advance in the game...
Excuse me for cutting out the rest of the flames but I wanted to focus on this statement. Were you just grasping at straws for reasons to attack me or do you honestly believe that anyone could be that stupid? Because, see, this sort of attitude on the part of developers is a big part of what's wrong with games these days. They seem to assume that we're all a bunch of sub-human idiots sitting around with drool dribbling off our chins while we mindlessly peck at keys on our keyboards to get our reward pellets.
Or, at best, they assume that a large percentage of us are and they design games for those people reasoning that more intelligent people can play simple games but simpletons can't play games requiring any degree of thought.
So if that insult was intended seriously, if you really believe that gamers are that stupid, then you should apply for a game design job. You'd fit right in and I'm sure someone would hire you immediately.
OK, just to shed some light on PnP games so you all can stop arguing. First of all Baldur's gate 1&2 as icewind dale and newerwinter nights are indeed set in forgotten realms. But what is forgotten realms? It is setting in D&D universe. More commonly known in lands of Faerun where we have a tons of campain settings and books and other stuff, now after long campain in Faerun (D&D. AD&D, AD&D 2, AD&D3, AD&D 3.5) wizards of the coast, proud owner of the franchise have decided to move whole setting into new realm, new realm is called EBBERON. Now stormreach is set in Ebberon and yes it is D&D as well as it is baldurl's gate and other mentioned. Now there are others like planescape (brilliant game by the way, and anyone who says otherwise should go and play tetris), white wolf, dragonlance and others which are now D&D, yes they are not D&D, they are made on different set of rules from forgotten realms and ebberon setting. Some of them have only their set like role master or commonly known as RM or white wolf which also has his own system which is not based on D&D.
So please do not go around and mix some things which are not mixable, stop dividing things that are the same, and for god's sake stop arguing.
An entertaining description of how most 'theme park' mmos operate. I feel your pain OP, I really do. I basically felt the same thing with Aion.
I pray for the day when there is an mmo that actually requires thought, tactics and challenge beyond how many easy mobs you can farm to grind out that next level. I would love for once to wake up in a world, take 2 steps and be mauled by a group of mobs that would rip me to shreds if I stood there and simply tried to tank and spank my way out.
So I read the OP and let's see if I can sum up what he's whining about.
1. The intro tutorial is easy to follow and leads you through where you need to go in an easy setting so you can figure out how to play in a non frustrating way. Yeah that really grinds my gears too!
2. A video game isn't 100% realistic because that would be so boring no one would play it, and destroying barrels and crates to find fun items inside is such a rude insult, trying to let me have fun SHAME ON YOU DDO!
3. The game scales up so that the early quests are easier (although I didn't see in his first post what levels he was using to enter the dungeon. For those of you who haven't tried DDO there is a choice on how hard the dungeon will be when you play through it solo =easiest and then it ramps up from easy medium hard etc.) so as you learn your character better and learn which skills you want to increase the game gets harder. It's almost like it scales along with your learning, terrible idea I say TERRIBLE!
4. He's mad that he feels he is the smartest man in the world, so when a game company makes the beginning part of a game straight forward to avoid confusion for the imbeciles that he spits on each day, he feels insulted. After all the game was clearly out to insult him and laugh at his disgrace of being the smartest man alive. So smart in fact he can't understand basic game design. Bravo, Bravo.
An entertaining description of how most 'theme park' mmos operate. I feel your pain OP, I really do. I basically felt the same thing with Aion.
I pray for the day when there is an mmo that actually requires thought, tactics and challenge beyond how many easy mobs you can farm to grind out that next level. I would love for once to wake up in a world, take 2 steps and be mauled by a group of mobs that would rip me to shreds if I stood there and simply tried to tank and spank my way out.
And that game would make so little money, that it would never be made.
Games are out to make money, they make money by bringing fun to the most people.
Most people don't want to spawn in a world where they are killed after taking 2 steps, that is when they uninstall and cancel.
Are there those of us who enjoy a more difficult game, sure, are there enough for companies to make a game that targets them, no not really.
A company is going to sit down and say "We can invest 80-100 million and make a game that appeals to the small hardcore crowd, who will inevitably say we did it wrong anyways, and make minor profits at best. Or we can make a game that appeals to the larger audience who also tends to be much more accepting of the game that is made and bring in large profits. Hmmmm what should we do?"
Comments
so you think this is somhow special and related to D&D?
you can enter every newbie zone in almost every other game and you might expierience the same.
so what is the point of your post? ultra mega hard uber newbie zones???
Er...wow.
Are you really blaming the IP for your DM being bad? Really?!
LOL, no, that was a guest GM and we never had him over again. But source material actually was full of dumb stuff like that; magical post services, magical factories with production lines, gryphons and pegassi actually being used for mundane tasks, a magic telecomunications sector... They actually had a mythic creature (cant remember the name, it was originally intended to lurk in dungeons underground of manned forts) that would eat sewage, so even modern utility services were posible through magic... And really you dont want to get into gnomish lore, lets just say it coulve been the work of Eric Cartman.
Like i said, freaking flintstones...
So you didn't like the setting. Good for you, try not to impose it on anyone.
And adding "lol" to your post really makes you mature, y'know.
Just sayin', but the Mundane Utility is one of my favourite tropes. Why? Because it makes sense in a naturally evolving universe. Because it made sense in ours.
"Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", after all.
And on this "stops being magic" comment... You know, magic being forced into formulas and used for battles? That's not magic! Now "clap your hands, turn around and really-really believe", now that's what I call magic!
Ahem. The games are still CRPG classics, with advanced rulesets, good storyline and deep immersive gameplay. Final Fantasy IS the WoW of Single-player RPGs.
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Hardy
Har
Har
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Hardy
Har
Har
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep. Oh, but i could save that in casette format...
I remember that little classic of yours, you couldnt create a bloody character in that one either.
Planescape was all looks but no depth, we only tried that game because of the aesthetics but the lore was disapointing. Here you are exploring the afterworld in all its complexity just to find a few bosses with the customary high hit point count.
Campaign settings did once in a while offer good mechanics and decent reading but overall they were just hyped fluff. Their evil legacy on computer games lies precisely in the idea that a new "theme" and the same old monsters with a revamped look is all thats required for an expansion. Planescape borrowed its imagery from other sources and itself left nothing. Other than the popularity of drow elves you could very much say the same of Forgotten Realms. Final Fantasys bland and simplistic elements were state of the art for its time.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Hardy
Har
Har
Im not against mundane utility per se, it actually works on some settings. Forgotten Realms tried to be everything at once, it had Ravenlofts style dark settings alongside Dragonlance style racial conflicts alongside Dark Sun inspired gritty wars plus pirates and bunnies and i dont even want to remember what else... Planescape had a wonderful technofantasy magic style, it worked for that setting. Forgotten Realms was kinda like having Aion chars alongside WOWs alongside Requiems alongside Freerealms, get the picture? It had no style just a bunch of ideas thrown together of whatever they thought was cool. Ive said nothing about the videogames other than they really mustve ignored the lore if they were any good. Stop defending an IP you obviously never experienced or actually put some good arguments on the table.
And as for your final fantasy comment its no ones fault you got a Sega.
Ooh, you made me remember what is often cited as the best CRPG ever made.
Planescape: Tornment.
Game, set, match.
And as far as I'm concerned, I grew up with a PC. My RPG of choice is Might and Magic.
P.S. I don't hate Final Fantasy, but the gameplay in JRPGs is... Well, a little bland and simplistic for me. Can't even create a bloody character, what's up with that?
What part of pnp players wouldnt like those games do you not understand? My first pc was an Atari, i had the privilege of spending quality time in my childhood writing code just so i could see the screen change colors or hear the the computer beep. Oh, but i could save that in casette format...
I remember that little classic of yours, you couldnt create a bloody character in that one either.
Planescape was all looks but no depth, we only tried that game because of the aesthetics but the lore was disapointing. Here you are exploring the afterworld in all its complexity just to find a few bosses with the customary high hit point count.
Campaign settings did once in a while offer good mechanics and decent reading but overall they were just hyped fluff. Their evil legacy on computer games lies precisely in the idea that a new "theme" and the same old monsters with a revamped look is all thats required for an expansion. Planescape borrowed its imagery from other sources and itself left nothing. Other than the popularity of drow elves you could very much say the same of Forgotten Realms. Final Fantasys bland and simplistic elements were state of the art for its time.
Oh, but at least you could influence him, both story- and progression-wise. You weren't confounded to the rails, like you always are in FF.
FFs look good, but, like with women, I prefer some maturity, and an opportunity to have a good talk.
P.S. Have we derailed this thread enough?
P.P.S. And why are you speaking, like you are some kind of a representative for the entire PnP player population? I know a lot of PnPers, who adore these games. Speak for yourself, buddy.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
@ Goronian; I was giving my opinion at OP, youre the one who got it in you to derail the thread. And it is your friends, who actually played pnp D&D that should rebuke me, not you. Do you always answer posts on subjects on which you have no experience? Please, by all means enlighten me some more on this subject youre clueless about.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
You dang nerds spewing all your nerd stuff all over my thread!
Heh, actually it's fine. I get the impression that only a few people understood what I was trying to say anyway. I think we've reached the point of having a clear generation gap among mmo gamers such that the younger often lack a common frame of reference with the older and so sometimes it's like trying to explain "blue" to a color blind person.
Oh, and please don't take offense at the nerd comment. I once programed a TRS-80 with a bunch of monster info and combat tables and stuff to make DMing games a little easier so I meant no ill by that comment.
When you post your opinion please try to say "this is my opinion" and not "I speak with the will of all PnP gamers". One makes you look considerably more foolish than the other.
Especially since I played PnP RPGs, and videogame RPGs and have thoroughly enjoyed both.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When you post your opinion please try to say "this is my opinion" and not "I speak with the will of all PnP gamers". One makes you look considerably more foolish than the other.
Especially since I played PnP RPGs, and videogame RPGs and have thoroughly enjoyed both.
Grow up, that was the third time i had to repeat myself so maybe it wasnt the best phrasing. And wouldnt you question someones good sense if they thought what i said was more fact than opinion? Quoting something out of context is an easy thing to do... And what about your opinion is exactly relevant to anything? We were discussing wether old school D&D players generally liked other D&D products (IMO only by exception) not which games are more enjoyable... If youre gonna attack what i say, you should at least have a clue as to what i was saying... unbelievable...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Know what? i deleted it after less than an hour.It is an ancient looking game,barely suitable for a console effort.It looks like a console game from long ago.Very simplistic in every approach of the game,i was so turned off,i didn't even need to think twice about removing from HD.
It will never return to a pay game,i actually cannot believe it ever was a p2p game,heck F2P games are better than that junk.This game will very obviously die out very soon.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I liked the orgininal grey box Forgetten Realm setting and the Undercity Frogetten Realm setting. Not sure about all the lame crap you are talking about. But back in the late 1980's and early 1990's when Forgetten Realms first started it was good. Not sure what your purist ideas are unless you are playing with Red, White and Blue boxes of DnD. Even in those magic was essential to everything your character did. That is what set your character apart from the muldane in those was that you had magic. I remember when DnD was only a paper pamplet that laid out rules. I remember when it only used 6 sided dice. Ah those were so long ago. Dragonlance the original modules were a great story. Doing your own stuff in Dragonlance is stupid the history is laid out. It would have been fun to be in the group when the DM played out the story of Dragonlance and the players decided this would make a great story.
I was talking about D&D PNP and D&D videogames. Therefore my opinion is plenty relevant as it directly contradicts your whole "all oldschool D&D gamers hate D&D videogames" rant.
I could extend things to say that I think you're ridiculous for fixating so much on disliking mudane magickry, but that's just your opinion so I figured there was no point. But when you started sounding like you were talking for all oldschool D&D players, that's where you're being foolish.
I mean if you wanted to criticize many D&D games for having lackluster combat systems, I'd be behind that. Despite telling excellent stories, that's the main reason they haven't been masterpieces of gaming. Eye of the Beholder was the only D&D game I really enjoyed a lot, largely because it adapted the combat system in a unique and actiony way. (although man, I tried the DS version of it not too long ago and that's gotta be one of the worst game ports I've ever played.)
Still, the excellent stories make the majority of D&D games worth playing despite lousy combat.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Our box was the 1993 edition (just looked it up) we were playing AD&D 2nd edition, so we may have gotten diferent books. And we tried almost any RPG system or game out there, from Call of Ctchulhu to LOTR. We came to realize you need nothing but dice, pen and paper to roleplay so we may have become purists in the end.
I stand by my critique of Forgotten Realms, even if perhaps i couldve phrased things better. The writing was subpar and the setting unimaginative, even then i knew better although i indulged in those books. We usually dont like to say this, but this games were an abuse and a dirty business. One or two books woulve been enough to play the game, but they were printing material by the ton in an almost quaterly basis and we were unexperienced enough to think we would be missing out on something if we didnt buy... And quality was really lacking, they even skimped on ilustrations (other than the cover ofc). We were smart enough to share expenses on my group but i knew people that were buying everything themselves, looking back on it it does seem like a waste... Forgotten Realms was probably the worst in that it failed to even try to provide quality, stand alone adventures were pretty much sad jokes.
The whole point about forgotten realms was imitation (it became blatant in the end) of the renaissance world with silly names. Of other TSR licenced settings. And Ed Greenwood playing Elminster a la Richard Garriott. And a modern Flintstones type world through magic. You maybe had a diferent experience but this is my side of things.
ed; spelling
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
I was talking about D&D PNP and D&D videogames. Therefore my opinion is plenty relevant as it directly contradicts your whole "all oldschool D&D gamers hate D&D videogames" rant.
I could extend things to say that I think you're ridiculous for fixating so much on disliking mudane magickry, but that's just your opinion so I figured there was no point. But when you started sounding like you were talking for all oldschool D&D players, that's where you're being foolish.
I mean if you wanted to criticize many D&D games for having lackluster combat systems, I'd be behind that. Despite telling excellent stories, that's the main reason they haven't been masterpieces of gaming. Eye of the Beholder was the only D&D game I really enjoyed a lot, largely because it adapted the combat system in a unique and actiony way. (although man, I tried the DS version of it not too long ago and that's gotta be one of the worst game ports I've ever played.)
Still, the excellent stories make the majority of D&D games worth playing despite lousy combat.
I wasnt out to attack D&D videogames, as you can read in the thread the whole thing got so mixed up with the Forgotten Realms thing it kind of devolved into flaming... Youre right i dont speak for all old schoolers. I will say most of the people ive kept in touch with do agree with my pov.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
I used the 1987 1st edition created by Ed Greenwood. It had all the maps, people, and gods that we needed to run the realms.
I guess to each their own Forgotten Realms is the most successful created realm that D&D ever put out in sales, books, reviews, and player used setting. I would have to put it down to your DM not adapting the realm to fit what you wanted.
Sooooo... basically you're judging the whole game off of your experience on "newbie island"? It's supposed to be EZ-Moad, fyi. Also melee classes breeze through the newbie island better than say a wizard or a sorc, especially if you set the difficulty for the missions on "solo". I'm guessing you also weren't smart enough to figure out your quest chain led you into the tavern to advance in the game, so after the three quests in n00b isle, you got butthurt, and came here to bitch. You'd be an awesome reviewer for IGN, though, you should check that out.
I blame Blizzard, however, for popularizing the "Barrel Breaking" thing. Ever since Diablo I, beating the hell out of barrels so they drop stuff as if they were piñatas have been the acceptable way of getting loot w/o treasure chests oddly placed in the middle of nowhere, or monsters of no value carrying epic armor or weapons of awesomeness for no reason whatsoever.
If you don't like MMO's idea of random loot, object destruction, and conceptual ideas that a musclebound person is going to destroy things with ease... then Animal Crossing may be more your speed. It in a sense has questing, is goal oriented, and has the feel of collecting things that aren't like flaming axes... but very pretty clothes! Kids seemed to love that game.
If you still need a MMO fix, try The Endless Forest. No general chat, no spam, no flaming item shit... it's pretty realistic and may be more up "your alley" so to speak.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Sooooo... basically you're judging the whole game off of your experience on "newbie island"? It's supposed to be EZ-Moad, fyi. Also melee classes breeze through the newbie island better than say a wizard or a sorc, especially if you set the difficulty for the missions on "solo". I'm guessing you also weren't smart enough to figure out your quest chain led you into the tavern to advance in the game, so after the three quests in n00b isle, you got butthurt, and came here to bitch. You'd be an awesome reviewer for IGN, though, you should check that out.
I blame Blizzard, however, for popularizing the "Barrel Breaking" thing. Ever since Diablo I, beating the hell out of barrels so they drop stuff as if they were piñatas have been the acceptable way of getting loot w/o treasure chests oddly placed in the middle of nowhere, or monsters of no value carrying epic armor or weapons of awesomeness for no reason whatsoever.
If you don't like MMO's idea of random loot, object destruction, and conceptual ideas that a musclebound person is going to destroy things with ease... then Animal Crossing may be more your speed. It in a sense has questing, is goal oriented, and has the feel of collecting things that aren't like flaming axes... but very pretty clothes! Kids seemed to love that game.
If you still need a MMO fix, try The Endless Forest. No general chat, no spam, no flaming item shit... it's pretty realistic and may be more up "your alley" so to speak.
I don't think Diablo was the first one, however I'm not sure
And I kinda agree with the OP, that the newbie zone should at least represent the things to come. As it is, it's much easier and much better-looking, than the rest of the zones, so that's not very fair to the player.
And AC is a grindfest so boring, eve I couldn't stand it. You literally do NOTHING all day.
And don't recommend EF to anyone, unless you want to permanently damage their brain.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Wouldnt put it on my DM, guy did a good job and we were a tough group to handle. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, it just wasnt quality material IMO.
@ Goronian; Aparently you had to take a cheap shot at me on the other thread before they locked it down. I really have no interest of having you troll me every time i post (yea, i did notice a pattern once we started discussing here) but im not backing down either (not after what you said) so since you were the last to make an attack i suggest you quit while youre ahead and stop addressing whatever post i make, otherwise ill guess we will have to just flame each other until we are both banned.
Get someting straight, i may be against political correctness but your comment crossed a line.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Excuse me for cutting out the rest of the flames but I wanted to focus on this statement. Were you just grasping at straws for reasons to attack me or do you honestly believe that anyone could be that stupid? Because, see, this sort of attitude on the part of developers is a big part of what's wrong with games these days. They seem to assume that we're all a bunch of sub-human idiots sitting around with drool dribbling off our chins while we mindlessly peck at keys on our keyboards to get our reward pellets.
Or, at best, they assume that a large percentage of us are and they design games for those people reasoning that more intelligent people can play simple games but simpletons can't play games requiring any degree of thought.
So if that insult was intended seriously, if you really believe that gamers are that stupid, then you should apply for a game design job. You'd fit right in and I'm sure someone would hire you immediately.
OK, just to shed some light on PnP games so you all can stop arguing. First of all Baldur's gate 1&2 as icewind dale and newerwinter nights are indeed set in forgotten realms. But what is forgotten realms? It is setting in D&D universe. More commonly known in lands of Faerun where we have a tons of campain settings and books and other stuff, now after long campain in Faerun (D&D. AD&D, AD&D 2, AD&D3, AD&D 3.5) wizards of the coast, proud owner of the franchise have decided to move whole setting into new realm, new realm is called EBBERON. Now stormreach is set in Ebberon and yes it is D&D as well as it is baldurl's gate and other mentioned. Now there are others like planescape (brilliant game by the way, and anyone who says otherwise should go and play tetris), white wolf, dragonlance and others which are now D&D, yes they are not D&D, they are made on different set of rules from forgotten realms and ebberon setting. Some of them have only their set like role master or commonly known as RM or white wolf which also has his own system which is not based on D&D.
So please do not go around and mix some things which are not mixable, stop dividing things that are the same, and for god's sake stop arguing.
An entertaining description of how most 'theme park' mmos operate. I feel your pain OP, I really do. I basically felt the same thing with Aion.
I pray for the day when there is an mmo that actually requires thought, tactics and challenge beyond how many easy mobs you can farm to grind out that next level. I would love for once to wake up in a world, take 2 steps and be mauled by a group of mobs that would rip me to shreds if I stood there and simply tried to tank and spank my way out.
So I read the OP and let's see if I can sum up what he's whining about.
1. The intro tutorial is easy to follow and leads you through where you need to go in an easy setting so you can figure out how to play in a non frustrating way. Yeah that really grinds my gears too!
2. A video game isn't 100% realistic because that would be so boring no one would play it, and destroying barrels and crates to find fun items inside is such a rude insult, trying to let me have fun SHAME ON YOU DDO!
3. The game scales up so that the early quests are easier (although I didn't see in his first post what levels he was using to enter the dungeon. For those of you who haven't tried DDO there is a choice on how hard the dungeon will be when you play through it solo =easiest and then it ramps up from easy medium hard etc.) so as you learn your character better and learn which skills you want to increase the game gets harder. It's almost like it scales along with your learning, terrible idea I say TERRIBLE!
4. He's mad that he feels he is the smartest man in the world, so when a game company makes the beginning part of a game straight forward to avoid confusion for the imbeciles that he spits on each day, he feels insulted. After all the game was clearly out to insult him and laugh at his disgrace of being the smartest man alive. So smart in fact he can't understand basic game design. Bravo, Bravo.
And that game would make so little money, that it would never be made.
Games are out to make money, they make money by bringing fun to the most people.
Most people don't want to spawn in a world where they are killed after taking 2 steps, that is when they uninstall and cancel.
Are there those of us who enjoy a more difficult game, sure, are there enough for companies to make a game that targets them, no not really.
A company is going to sit down and say "We can invest 80-100 million and make a game that appeals to the small hardcore crowd, who will inevitably say we did it wrong anyways, and make minor profits at best. Or we can make a game that appeals to the larger audience who also tends to be much more accepting of the game that is made and bring in large profits. Hmmmm what should we do?"