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MMORPGs dont "exist" in the same way they used to.

InterestingInteresting Porto AlegrePosts: 950Member

What we are seing is the advent of the popularity of Multiplayer Online Games with some sort of character progression.

They de-evolved from MMORPGs (they couldnt afford to be MMORPGs, but they could make a subpar multiplayer online game and throw in some elements of MMORPGs for make up) while still being able to rip the economic fruits ignited by MMORPGs.

They justify it with the "need to maintain the servers" and mostly non existant "customer support" to justify subscriptions or real money transactions.

They dont care about such deviation of our beloved genre.

They dont fulfill the first "M" of the acronymn.

The conclusion is that MMORPGs as we knew them, are ceasing to exist.

They are becoming the exception after each wannabe fake "MMO" release and the market is still growing strong, wich indicates that this tendency will remain and the genre will (de)evolve even more as the game companies start crapping more of their "MMOs".

 

This website, the "www.mmorpg.com" and its owners should be aware of it and play a role in the clean up of the genre, selecting the true MMORPGs that should get visibility and ignoring those "Multiplayer Online Games" with make up mechanics trying to leech on the love we have for MMORPGs.

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Comments

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon

    Im interested to know what does your "M" stands for and can give an example of which game shouldnt be here?

     

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Koolawachie, SCPosts: 14,495Member

    A game is a game. It's fun or it isn't fun to play.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're having fun playing an MMORPG, or some sort of MMOG that isnt' an RPG.

    I happen to like mmoRPGs. It's not the only thing I play. I also like Real Time Strategy Games, and First Person Shooter games. I used to like single player RPGs, but these days they are kind of hard to get into, unless they are exceptional like KOTOR or Fallout 3.

    So, I don't need my MMORPG to be turned into a massive First Person Shooter. I don't really need a massive Real Time Strategy game. But if some people like them, great, hope developers make them for those people and they ahve lots of fun playing.

    Same goes for "Free" to play games. I don't play them. I think Pay to Play games create a level playing field, which I enjoy, and F2P with item shops which are definitely NOT free, create an unlevel playing field, which I do not enjoy. But if some people like playing F2P games, great, play them all day long.

    I'd like to see another good RvR game, like DAoC. But if someone wants to make a massive FPS, go right ahead. You won't get my sub fee, but you will get someone elses.

    image

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 1,880Member
    Originally posted by Interesting


    What we are seing is the advent of the popularity of Multiplayer Online Games with some sort of character progression.
    They de-evolved from MMORPGs (they couldnt afford to be MMORPGs, but they could make a subpar multiplayer online game and throw in some elements of MMORPGs for make up) while still being able to rip the economic fruits ignited by MMORPGs.
    They justify it with the "need to maintain the servers" and mostly non existant "customer support" to justify subscriptions or real money transactions.
    They dont care about such deviation of our beloved genre.
    They dont fulfill the first "M" of the acronymn.
    The conclusion is that MMORPGs as we knew them, are ceasing to exist.
    They are becoming the exception after each wannabe fake "MMO" release and the market is still growing strong, wich indicates that this tendency will remain and the genre will (de)evolve even more as the game companies start crapping more of their "MMOs".
     
    This website, the "www.mmorpg.com" and its owners should be aware of it and play a role in the clean up of the genre, selecting the true MMORPGs that should get visibility and ignoring those "Multiplayer Online Games" with make up mechanics trying to leech on the love we have for MMORPGs.

     

    All mmo's today do fulfill the first M. Anything over 100 players in any given game world provides that and that is basically all of em including most f2p mmo's.

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    Only thing I think the OP could mean by not fulfilling the first "M"  is  that they want forced grouping. You remember hours spent looking for group and if no group you just wasted your evening. Game can have some soloable areas and still be multiplayer. Multiplayer does not have to just mean we have to group to go kill even the weakest mobs. I miss the communities from older mmos but in all honesty with the current numbers playing mmos those communities are relics of the past never to be regained. The larger our populations get the worse the communities become.

  • HarabeckHarabeck Here, MEPosts: 616Member

    Another "old-school" player yelling at the new MMO's to get off his lawn. Give it up, not having to walk 15 miles uphill both ways is a good thing.

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 1,880Member
    Originally posted by Harabeck


    Another "old-school" player yelling at the new MMO's to get off his lawn. Give it up, not having to walk 15 miles uphill both ways is a good thing.

     

    Thank you

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Mexico CityPosts: 556Member

    Could the OP clarify what are the games he thinks the genre "devolved" from? Sounds like another "sandbox pvp" UO fan...

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • metalhead980metalhead980 Queens, NYPosts: 2,658Member

    Near all of the old school MMOs are still running. We still have a ton of Worlds to play in.

    Do what I do, Stay away from the linear trash and play the quality games that offer large immersive worlds not small maps with mini-games.

    No need for a post like this since all of the good games are still available.

    PLaying: EvE, Ryzom

    Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum

  • Frostbite05Frostbite05 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 1,880Member
    Originally posted by metalhead980


    Near all of the old school MMOs are still running. We still have a ton of Worlds to play in.


    Do what I do, Stay away from the linear trash and play the quality games that offer large immersive worlds not small maps with mini-games.


    No need for a post like this since all of the good games are still available


    Metal you never cease to put a smile of my face.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Interesting


    What we are seing is the advent of the popularity of Multiplayer Online Games with some sort of character progression.
    They de-evolved from MMORPGs (they couldnt afford to be MMORPGs, but they could make a subpar multiplayer online game and throw in some elements of MMORPGs for make up) while still being able to rip the economic fruits ignited by MMORPGs.
    They justify it with the "need to maintain the servers" and mostly non existant "customer support" to justify subscriptions or real money transactions.
    They dont care about such deviation of our beloved genre.
    They dont fulfill the first "M" of the acronymn.
    The conclusion is that MMORPGs as we knew them, are ceasing to exist.
    They are becoming the exception after each wannabe fake "MMO" release and the market is still growing strong, wich indicates that this tendency will remain and the genre will (de)evolve even more as the game companies start crapping more of their "MMOs".
     
    This website, the "www.mmorpg.com" and its owners should be aware of it and play a role in the clean up of the genre, selecting the true MMORPGs that should get visibility and ignoring those "Multiplayer Online Games" with make up mechanics trying to leech on the love we have for MMORPGs.

     

    LOL .. don't pretend you speak for everyone.

    As I see it, entertainment is evolving all the time. I bet the die hard were giving the same rant when text adventure games give way to graphics adventure, or 2D graphics give way to 3D.

    The world don't stop because of you. The MMORPGs (incidentally, the LAST G stands for GAME) are more fun today. If you want to call them MOG, be my guess. As long as the games are fun, i don't really care if it is a MOG or  MMOG.

     

     

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caleveira


    Could the OP clarify what are the games he thinks the genre "devolved" from? Sounds like another "sandbox pvp" UO fan...



     

    I can not speak for OP but will speak for myself.

    As for me this genre has definitly devolved from the older MMORPG's.

    Sure older MMORPG where still in the "Try this and see how it works" era. With today's inpatient community we can not have that anymore, but one thing older MMORPG made sure was that you sticked with the game, no I am not talking about time-sinks as those only excists in the minds of narrowminded players, also not talking about grind cause that's also a very limited playstyle that is done today allot more by unexperianced gamers then it is done by experianced gamers. MMORPG's do not have grind, only people's playstyle makes them grind not the game.

    Anyway when speaking about AAA title's only, we see that exploring has no real use anymore as most things are pinpointed at your map, simple minds would say to not look at the map......

    Crafting has become a after thought, yes I know the many lack the patients and lack the understanding to see something like crafting to be fun. It's a fact that crafting is not for everyone, but I feel it's been left alone far to much when looking at AAA-titles (so not speaking/writting about indie MMO's).

    Also the M of massive should mean MASSIVE again, this does not go only for a massive amount of people online, it should also stand for massive amount of content, content in all form and shapes, from crafting to quest's, to meaningfull exploring. I don't want to travel 30 minutes acros a world and hardly see anything worthwhile, want to let me walk 30 mijnutes to cross the gameworld, make sure that world is filled in a realistic way with either things to discover or simply things to encounter, I also do not want every square inch to be filled with targets, like I said a more realstic way.

    In older MMORPG you could really make either a name for yourself or your guild in a good way( sure the bad where around aswell), but today when a person(s) is known or guilds it's often in a negative manner (often means not always)

    PVP needs to a PART of a MMORPG, but it should never be the main foccus, else such a game should simply be a multiplayer game.

    Forced grouping....another handhold feature, I don't need that, and it wasn't in the old, if I group I do so because I want to and not because the game tells me that I must group.

    Solo play also something that should be part of a MMORPG, as MMORPG's are supose to be worlds and like in the real world you don't do everything alway's together, so there needs to be room in a MMORPG for allot of different playstyle's, and sure grind is a certain limited playstyle, but if people are having fun doing that then so be it as it's fun that counts when playing games.

    Where is the housing feature, yeah again something many can do without, but having it in a MMORPG should not mean everyone should get a house/home in that game it should always be a choice, as far II know it's always has been a choice for people and never was truly needed, lots of friends that could play and have fun without a house/home.

    Oh and sure I could find many of these things either by going back to the older MMORPG or dive into the Indie scene, but DAMN!!! I just want a MMORPG thats up in the AAA ranks that just isn't a full combat oriented online game, but brings back the community game that MMORPG could once again become.

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Mexico CityPosts: 556Member

    @ Reklaw, yea, i actually agree with a few items on your wish list but i still dont know what older MMO you guys are talking about. UO, EQ?

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • RealmLordsRealmLords Chicago, ILPosts: 358Member

    SP w / lobby != MMORPG

     

    Ken

    www.ActionMMORPG.com
    One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~

  • AganazerAganazer Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,319Member

    Not sure what you guys are getting at with the 'M' thing. I don't think I have seen more than about 200 people in any one area in any MMOG I have played. Lets see... The bank in Britainia might have had about 50 people and turned into a slide show rubber-band lag-fest. Asheron's Call had portal storms to prevent too many people from being in the same area. EQ was neatly divided into zones split mostly by level range. This mythical 'M' never even existed in the way some people say it did and if it did the only thing 'M' stood for is "Mega-Lag" or "Mega-Camped".



    I remember some posts from Brad McQuaid back in the early days of EQ where he even said that the ideal size for a online community would be around 200 players. If there were a 200 player server in any game you'd have all kinds of people complaining about how its not massive enough and that there will be no community.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,719Member Uncommon

    I hate when genres of less than 1 million players devolve into 20+ million player genres.

    Everyone knows players only play games they don't likeSo the 20+ million players playing nowadays represents more than 20 times as much suffering and pain as when the genre had less than 1 million players!

    MMORPG.com must put a stop to the rampant success of the MMORPG genre!

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caleveira


    @ Reklaw, yea, i actually agree with a few items on your wish list but i still dont know what older MMO you guys are talking about. UO, EQ?



     

    I did play Meridian59/UO, but that did not start my "love" for MMORPG, EQ never got to me, it was actualy Star Wars Galaxies in which I hoped this genre would evolve from in a more polished/content filled/bugfree way. Oh and keep in mind to me content does not mean quest here and quest there, as there is so much that can be done with content, like crafting, exploring, social aspects.

    Oh and to some other posters, yes obvious the community has evolved from merly -1 mill to what it is today, of course internet did became mainstream so it's only logical that the online community would grow no matter if it's for good or bad games the community is now online more so then years ago. But didn't know this topic was about the community growth, thought this topic was about the genre called MMORPG's.

    Devolved in like having lesser options/choices in HOW to play the game not the growth of community.

     

  • thaniththanith düsseldorfPosts: 144Member
    Originally posted by Frostbite05

    Originally posted by metalhead980


    Near all of the old school MMOs are still running. We still have a ton of Worlds to play in.


    Do what I do, Stay away from the linear trash and play the quality games that offer large immersive worlds not small maps with mini-games.


    No need for a post like this since all of the good games are still available


    Metal you never cease to put a smile of my face.

     

    i feel very much the same *smiles*

    as in metal's signature: better to live in those worlds than to play some linear crap or asian grind with which we are spammed over and over again.

    image

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Mexico CityPosts: 556Member

    Ok, SWG is not something im getting into a discussion of;

    1.I didnt get to play it.

    2.People who did dont seem to agree amongst themselves wether it was JTL, NGE or whatever other change that ruined the game.

    3.Some people have come to idealize what it was. As we are talking half a decade it would be dificult for anyone to actually have a somewhat unbiased view anymore.

    SWG cant really be used in any discussion of game elements, if thats what you guys meant then your argument doesnt really have much of a leg to stand on.

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • JosherJosher Deerfield beach, FLPosts: 2,818Member

     Its only the vets that know what makes a good MMO...according to them;)  Its amazing how the genre survived without them.  Oh thats right.  The genre doesn't need them anymore because they can barely fill a server in a new MMO.

    These people remind of those who say any game in 3D sucks and ONLY vector graphics like Asteroids define what a game truly is.

  • metalhead980metalhead980 Queens, NYPosts: 2,658Member
    Originally posted by Josher


     Its only the vets that know what makes a good MMO...according to them;)  Its amazing how the genre survived without them.  Oh thats right.  The genre doesn't need them anymore because they can barely fill a server in a new MMO.
    These people remind of those who say any game in 3D sucks and ONLY vector graphics like Asteroids define what a game truly is.



    Older games were massive and explorer friendly. Communities were tight knit. Socializing, RP and grouping were main activities. Everything from Pve to Pvp had meaning and risk. MMOs have gone from Worlds to what? 

    Games with cramped, small maps with npcs leading people around the game like their retarded. These new games promote anti-social behavior and they have all but killed Rping and those old tight knit communities have been replaced with global chat and Chuck Norris jokes.

    Yes new mmos are so much better, you get to solo 100% of the time and not be bothered to interact with people in a game that has hundreds of thousands of people in game.

    In older games everyone knew everyone else. In todays games most guildies know shit about eachother.

    Can you really blame any of the old school players for hating the crap that's been released the last few years?

    Thank god old games still exist if I had nothing but people that acted like anti-social Bots and solo play 100% of the time I would have left a long time ago.

     

     

    PLaying: EvE, Ryzom

    Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

    At least the FPS genre has been moving forward instead of backward. It's rare nowadays to find a good FPS title without some sort of RPG elements in it. And the multiplayer is still free. I think the MMO players attitudes towards one another have changed more than anything over the years.  Players have become more self-centered and greedy in my opinion. There isn't really anything to be greedy about in multiplayer shooter games though. Maybe it is me who has changed. Who knows?

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • TechleoTechleo Grants Pass, ORPosts: 1,984Member

       As far as I can tell most of the games are just as rich and creative now as the ones in the past. The key difference seems to be who plays them. In the past playing a MMORPG was limited to much smaller groups due to the genre of computer gaming not being as publically popular. With the release of games like EA, WOW and others, it became mainstream. With any medium, the release into mainstream culture clutters the medium with ... less then respectable individuals. Personally though I still have as much fun RPing with my group in WOW, LOTRO and other games as I did when I started. Grouping is still rewarded. Exploration is still available. All that changed is our mindsets.

  • HarabeckHarabeck Here, MEPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt


    I hate when genres of less than 1 million players devolve into 20+ million player genres.
    Everyone knows players only play games they don't likeSo the 20+ million players playing nowadays represents more than 20 times as much suffering and pain as when the genre had less than 1 million players!
    MMORPG.com must put a stop to the rampant success of the MMORPG genre!

    QFT

  • CaleveiraCaleveira Mexico CityPosts: 556Member

    I still fail to see the argument of when the genre was any better. Many people on this forums seem to willingly admit EQ was a grindfest and ive also seen strong criticism being leveled at UO. So when was the genre any diferent? What game embodies this golden age the vets seem to long after?

    Just to make things clear...
    I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog LondonPosts: 5,001Member
    Originally posted by metalhead980

    Originally posted by Josher


     Its only the vets that know what makes a good MMO...according to them;)  Its amazing how the genre survived without them.  Oh thats right.  The genre doesn't need them anymore because they can barely fill a server in a new MMO.
    These people remind of those who say any game in 3D sucks and ONLY vector graphics like Asteroids define what a game truly is.



    Older games were massive and explorer friendly. Communities were tight knit. Socializing, RP and grouping were main activities. Everything from Pve to Pvp had meaning and risk. MMOs have gone from Worlds to what? 

    Games with cramped, small maps with npcs leading people around the game like their retarded. These new games promote anti-social behavior and they have all but killed Rping and those old tight knit communities have been replaced with global chat and Chuck Norris jokes.

    Yes new mmos are so much better, you get to solo 100% of the time and not be bothered to interact with people in a game that has hundreds of thousands of people in game.

    In older games everyone knew everyone else. In todays games most guildies know shit about eachother.

    Can you really blame any of the old school players for hating the crap that's been released the last few years?

    Thank god old games still exist if I had nothing but people that acted like anti-social Bots and solo play 100% of the time I would have left a long time ago.

     

     

    That is why i love group grind games :D...i like risk pvp when im doing the killing and looting :P

    image
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