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Dark Age of Camelot: Jeff Hickman on WAR, DaoC and the Future

StraddenStradden Managing EditorHalifax, NSPosts: 6,696Member

MMORPG.com's Garrrett Fuller had the opportunity to speak with EA Mythic's Jeff Hickman after his presentation at GDC. In this interview, Hickman discusses the future of MMOs, mistakes with WAR and hints at a possible rejuvenation of Dark Age of Camelot.

Jeff Hickman is Executive Producer at EA Mythic. He has worked on several titles including Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer Online. Jeff gave a presentation at AGDC which outlined how players will purchase and play games in the future and what design ideas we might see years from now. He also touched on some of the areas where Warhammer went wrong and explained some improvements they are trying to make for the future on all of Mythic's products. After his presentation I had a chance to interview Jeff, sadly the video interview was lost, sorry Jeff, but I'll try to highlight some of the points he made.

Jeff explained that digital distribution is important in the future for games. There will always be boxed sales, but with services like STEAM and other digital download companies, getting games directly online easier than ever to do. In the future, more and more people will be downloading games online than going to the store to buy them.

Read Jeff Hickman on WAR, DaoC and the Future

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • Draco91Draco91 Bowie, MDPosts: 134Member

     "When Jeff asked me if I would like to go back to DAOC the way it was in the beginning I got excited.

    It is great when an Executive Producer says, what would you do with Dark Age of Camelot? Well I explained that maybe a sequel would be the way to go. Or perhaps revamp the game with an updated engine, new graphics and art, and keep the world in its old form with game play very close to the way people remember it. Jeff smiled, smirked is more like it, for a very long time. Jeff said that they are hiring right now on the Dark Age of Camelot team. We can only hope DAOC will see a rejuvenation back to its old awesome PvP self."

    There's hope yet! OMIDAWG!  

     

    "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)

    The best way to deal with trolls:
    http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/ [IGNORE THEM, THEY JUST WANT ATTENTION!]

  • DoonyaDoonya NorwichPosts: 18Member


    There's hope yet! OMIDAWG!  
     

     

    Couldn't have said it better myself :D

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Newport News, VAPosts: 5,615Member

    His three reasons are completely worthless.

    Here is the problem with WAR.

    You must PvE to PvP, and the endgame is based on PvE. To many areas for PvP and to little population to fill them even if the server was maxed out, making the instant action PvP the best choice.

    /endthread

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon

    DAOC 2 ???!!!!

    Please tell me its true!!!

     

     

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • gkk1212gkk1212 Stanton, CAPosts: 44Member

    omg yes!

    Re-vamp in a new engine and new weapon looks but same names...!!!

    we hold all the love in the world for DAoC and would come back as me and all my crew / brute squad guild were into the original gates wars and story lines.

    the game had it all... come on man do it .

    if you did you most likly would burn down D3 and Aion .

    long live Hibernia !!!

     

    Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !

  • pencilrickpencilrick The Alamo, TXPosts: 1,550Member

    They were right about the social aspect missing in WAR, part of this was the chat system and part was the public quests which required zero interaction to get involved in and to execute.  Odd, that they still see public quests as a strength.

    But the MAIN THING that WAR missed on was the "world."  They designed a linear arena, which felt very contrived and non-immersive.  FRIENDLY NOOB ZONE --> FRIENDLY MID ZONE --> FRIENDLY HIGH ZONE --> CONTESTED ZONE <-- ENEMY HIGH ZONE <-- ENEMY MID ZONE <-- ENEMY NOOB ZONE.    Not an exact representation, but close to their model; just a line really.  So, just how artificial is a design like that?

    WAR should have had a "world".

    I would like to see a revamp on DAOC.  Maybe change it up just a bit, but not so much as to lose its original charm.  Graphics update, plus UI and combat/magic system updates should work.

  • superninja42superninja42 Pasadena, TXPosts: 11Member

    DAoC is still one of my favorite MMO experiences to date. Back before ToA the game was amazing - long siege battles, trying to level and getting ganked -- thus causing mini-wars. Man those were the days :)

    WAR should have capitalized on what the people wanted. Here is hoping for a DAoC 2 that I can spend hours and hours and hours... etc.. playing :)

    PS - My wife hates the idea of a DAoC 2 -- she remembers me saying "Ya, dinner, be there in a minute." and not eating for another hour lol

    This is my sig... nice huh? :P

  • pencilrickpencilrick The Alamo, TXPosts: 1,550Member

    You now, I wouldn't advise them to "revamp" DAOC, even if that's what they end up doing.  I think there would be more interest in releasing a DAOC 2 (and calling it that).

    They should retain the guts of DAOC, update all graphics, UI, and systems, then release an entirely new game called DAOC 2.  Folks would be all over that, I'm guessing.

  • miked9022miked9022 Aventura, FLPosts: 91Member
    Originally posted by pencilrick


    You now, I wouldn't advise them to "revamp" DAOC, even if that's what they end up doing.  I think there would be more interest in releasing a DAOC 2 (and calling it that).
    They should retain the guts of DAOC, update all graphics, UI, and systems, then release an entirely new game called DAOC 2.  Folks would be all over that, I'm guessing.

    id be more excited to see the same old daoc world again. that same environment, those same game dynamics, combined with a renewed massive community like the game used to have, is more than enough for me. graphics upgrades wouldnt hurt either. a new game world would just scare me-- WAR with DAOC as the disguised IP. bleh.

    id die for DAOC2. but if they mess it up, id also kill for it O_o

  • Bicknell55Bicknell55 Diamond Springs, CAPosts: 73Member

    As I am; DAoC was pure enjoyment! I know of a few others who would love to see a ^better/updated^ DAoC I wasn't really surprised what was said of WAR, by all that have commented thus far.

     

     

    Bick

  • SuperHansSuperHans Donji MiholjacPosts: 87Member
    Originally posted by pencilrick


    You now, I wouldn't advise them to "revamp" DAOC, even if that's what they end up doing.  I think there would be more interest in releasing a DAOC 2 (and calling it that).
    They should retain the guts of DAOC, update all graphics, UI, and systems, then release an entirely new game called DAOC 2.  Folks would be all over that, I'm guessing.

    They should name it ''Dark Age of Camelot: The Second Coming"

     

    I'm just cool like that.

  • battleaxebattleaxe Baton Rouge, LAPosts: 158Member

    If they can't face the facts, I have no hope for any future games from them.

    They lost most people when they launched with totally broken classes and such awful balancing between classes and factions that the game just wasn't fun to play.

  • EliandalEliandal Chelmsford, ONPosts: 796Member

      We'll never know the real reasons why WAR  launched as is...however one can reasonably infer that EA had much to do with it.  That being said...a return to Camelot would be wonderful - as long as there's no 'New Frontiers'.

     

      BRING BACK the golf course :D!

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

     Aside from the botters I could deal with everything else from DAoC. I'm not much for pvp but for some reason when I played DAoC I was  felt a sudden urge to explore the frontiers and hunt those dirty hibbies. MIDGARD RULES!!!!!!

  • jeppahjeppah VejlePosts: 56Member

    As someone who didnt play DaoC, can someone tell me some highlights of it's features?

     

    I.E Is there crafting/gahtering ? Full loot .. And so on.

     

    Ive often heard about it from people whom i used to play UO with as something good.

  • IonselonIonselon Central FL, FLPosts: 248Member

    Jeff, please don't get my hopes up over DAoC if you're not really serious.  If I could go back to DAoC pre ToA, with some updating with the good things out of today's MMOs, I'd do it in a flash. Man, just the thought gives me chills.

    Ion

  • TymoraTymora Manorville, NYPosts: 1,312Member

    I enjoyed Warhammer Online.  There are many fun things about it, but in the end I quit playing, more to try other mmos rather than because of its faults.  I think I will re-sub to DAoC.  I loved that mmo.  Anyone still play?

  • finnmacool1finnmacool1 Corona, CAPosts: 453Member

    As someone who played doac up until toa i had high hopes that war would be an amazing game. Unfortunately mythic learned nothing from their mistakes with daoc and his 3 big reasons why war didnt do as well as hoped only highlight this.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    Dark Age of Camelot 2!

    /signed in blood...Hibbie blood!

     

    I played DAoC for almost 7 years, only reason I quit was I couldn't afford it ;_;

    I've said for awhile, alot of people would buy a DAoC2 even if it was the exact same game (original, maybe with SI, but original was best) just updated engine and graphics...I wouldn't need to eat if that happened, so I could afford it then :)

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member

    They wouldn't spring for a new engine for Warhammer. Why would you expect them to do so for DAoC?

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • demarc01demarc01 Dover, DEPosts: 428Member

    I played DAoC from day 1 for about 5 years. It was a great game but it to had its faults.

    In todays age of gaming the combat system is pretty bare-bones. There are attack chains and the like but it would need some more flesh added to the combat system. CC was a major issue in DAoC on release (Stungard anyone?) and although better now at the higer levels of the game (Determinations / purges etc) CC is still a major balancing issue with any PvP game.

    The major issues I had with DAoC was the Cross-playstyles.

    By that I mean, initially there were no realm ranks. We RvR'd because we enjoyed it. We RvR'd for realm pride. They added realm ranks which was great, my issue is with they way they rewarded realm ranks. The rewards were universal, meaning that they effected the PvE game as well. This was very apparent to the PvE player base and they raised concerns right there. It ment that PvE players HAD to RvR in order to stay in league with thier peer's who RvR'd and PvE'd. This was'ent a welcome change for the PvE crowd (yes DAoC did have a PvE aspect too) Of course this was shot down on the forums (Vn, Mythic had no official forums) with yells of "DAoC is a PvP game" "N00b" and so on.

    Of course this all came about face with the release of ToA (Trials of Atlantis) which added Master levels and Artifacts. This was PvE. On the flip side tho these PvE aspects had an impact in RvR. Of course this was a blow to the RvR crowd who felt now that they HAD to PvE in order to RvR (Which they did) Shoe was on the other foot with the RvR crowd bitching and the PvE crowd telling them to sux it up.

     

    This was IMO DAoC's main flaw. Cross-over gaming. PvE rewards should only have "value" in PvE. RvR (Or PvP) rewards should only have "Value" in RvR. If they had played to this model with realm rank rewards only effecting the RvR game and PvE rewards only effecting the PvE game they would'ent have lost subs after the Realm Rank additions (admittedly these losses were minimal since DAoC was billed as a PvP game) but they lost ALOT of subs after the TOA expac.

    Players still cited the "TOA" expansion as being a reason for leaving months after the Xpac and to this day you have vets that take issue with the TOA xpac.

    If there is a DAoC2, I would hope that they can be more foward thinking and seperate apects of game play minimizing "cross-over" Its how you keep both "factions" of players happy and playing .. dont force them to play aspects of the game that hold no interest for them in order to play the aspects that they do actually like.

     

    My input.

    image

  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Bedford, NSPosts: 5,056Member
    Originally posted by demarc01


    This was IMO DAoC's main flaw. Cross-over gaming. PvE rewards should only have "value" in PvE. RvR (Or PvP) rewards should only have "Value" in RvR. If they had played to this model with realm rank rewards only effecting the RvR game and PvE rewards only effecting the PvE game they would'ent have lost subs after the Realm Rank additions (admittedly these losses were minimal since DAoC was billed as a PvP game) but they lost ALOT of subs after the TOA expac.

    This isn't just a problem with Mythic. WoW had plenty of these issues early on. A lot of players crap on resilience, but it was a decent answer to a serious problem. The other thing Blizzard did well was have a LOT of the CC not work on humanoids. That was a glaring omission from Warhammer. A lot of their devs were supposed to be WoW players, so why didn't they see the danger of sick amounts of CC in PvP?

    The basic flaw in philosophy is that devs think that all players WANT to do both PvE and PvP. Some do, but I think most want to focus on one or the other. I was content to PvE in WoW, but I moved to Warhammer to PvP. Warhammer was never going to match WoW's PvE, and they shouldn't have tried.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jeppah


    As someone who didnt play DaoC, can someone tell me some highlights of it's features?
     
    I.E Is there crafting/gahtering ? Full loot .. And so on.
     
    Ive often heard about it from people whom i used to play UO with as something good.

     

    There was crafting but the RvR did not have player loot. The purpose of the rvr was stomp the other realms and also to take keeps, towers and artifacts. The side with the most keeps had access to a special dungeon and the artifacts gave bonuses to the owning realms. I must say it had one of the best communities I have ever encountered.

  • hinkhousehinkhouse Gnome, AKPosts: 29Member

    "The last place that the game had its problems right from the beginning was with its economy. Mythic was so extreme on getting rid of gold farmers that did not realize it made their economy pointless for the player. Jeff explained that commerce between o people can help build relationships between friends or guilds. With Warhammer's current economy there is very little need for gold. Right from the start this caused problems."

     

    This paragraph is a bit muddled. I liked the hard stance they took against gold farmers. How would such a stance help to make the economy pointless?  I was always checking the AH for gear upgrades. But I don't see how commerce can build relationships.

  • hogscraperhogscraper Cov, KYPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by jeppah


    As someone who didnt play DaoC, can someone tell me some highlights of it's features?
     
    I.E Is there crafting/gahtering ? Full loot .. And so on.
     
    Ive often heard about it from people whom i used to play UO with as something good.

    Highlights? Best game ever! I would forsake all other games for a DAoC2. Even if it was just the original game updated ported into another engine as i still jump into the original and play on shards here and there. I loved the crafting system but more for the end results than the road there. They should revamp the crafting so that there are a lot more gathering skills but definitely keep the alch/scer/general crafting. It allowed you to create a template that worked without having to spend your entire time in pve. Artifacts were pretty easy to get, but having to level them up sucked hard core. The crafting was pretty simple and given enough time, many of the crafting lines needed almost no money to craft. Salvaging was the craft that brought it all together. If you had a salvaging toon and knew where to hunt, you could turn your loot into serious cash and level almost to Legandary Crafter, (the highest) by buying just a few things here and there. I had a necro cleric combo that made 10 plat a day when I worked at it running orc camp. 

    Orc camp, that was another thing that truly set this game apart. It was one of the encounters like many in TOA that a full pick up group could fake their way through, but the effort it took for one person on two accounts to do? Enough so that few would ever have the ability to do it. The game really let you be as powerful as you wanted to be. 

    The three realms fighting it out really was one of the most important things in this game. Playing so many other games that only have two groups it becomes immediately appearent that three is the magic number. It totally added an element of chaos to the game so that no two fights were the same. If one realm got too powerful the other two realms would gang up on the leader to bring them to their knees. If you were in the middle of a battle with one realm another realm coming over the hill side could help you, kill you first or anything in between. Some people would race straight to 50, some never got there and both camps still had fun. I had 15 50's across 2 accounts and several slots were dedicated to a lower level rvr zone called Thidranki. The last year I played every day in the batlegrounds only. I think that might have been one of the downfalls with that game. There were far too many fun things to do. PVE'ers had tons of space to explore and RVR'ers had dozens of options on where and how to play. And that also ran people into the brick wall of thinking they could do just one or the other. You had to spend time in pve and rvr in order to be the best at both. I can't say that I had a problem with it but too many people convinced themselves that because of the amount of time you could spend having fun in one area that you didn't need to be in the other and the hard realization conflicted with their perceived reality and they couldn't hang...

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