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Does Game Guard help or hurt Aion?

2

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  • VarknynVarknyn Sedr, KYPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by SacredO

    Originally posted by Varknyn

    Originally posted by Elsabolts


    Unless Ncsoft fixes this or takes it out of the game there gonna lose alot of folks bottom line. Hope they are listening it will cost them sales and sooner or later jobs there.

    Jihad works both ways

    I really think your way over exaggerating how this is going to affect their business.

    Game guard alone will have a very minor impact on a very small minority.

    I agree, the lost of my business or anyone else who complains about Game Guard, will have minor impact on the success of Aion or NCSoft business.  But does that preclude people from questioning the use of Game Guard?

    Not at all. I agree it is completely unnecessary.

    Regardless of what they do people will find ways to cheat/hack.

    It's inevitable.

     

  • quaikyquaiky wien, GAPosts: 566Member
    Originally posted by Varknyn

    Originally posted by Xasapis


    NCsoft support suggested you remove your security software? Interesting. 
    I'm still waiting on an answer for my own query.

    You must be new to PC gaming.

    Game of all kinds have been asking this for years, it's extremely common and nothing new.

    Anti-virus programs and firewalls can sometimes interfere with installation of programs as well as the operations of certain online games and programs.

    If this is "interesting" to you, then you really need to get a clue.

    its true that a lot games use the disable anti virus software during game installation in case of errors as one of the standard answers for installation problems.

    disabling firewall temporary for a short problem diagnosis if the problem is caused by firewall is also commonly used, but asking you to completely remove firewall or anti virus is not usual. 

    if you are connected directly to the Internet (no local router with NAT) this just means that you really want to be infected by some virus/worm... especially if you did not install all windows updates your computer might bge compromised in less than 5 minutes ( http://it.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?id=771909&op=view ), and even with all updates you are never  sure how many security holes are still open that noone officially knows about.

    so if you have no router with NAT then best never disable the firewall while connected to the internet (and if you really have to make sure your system is as up to date as possible), or you will soon be a part of a botnet.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 New York, NYPosts: 1,393Member Common

    I was going to try the OB til I found out about the GG.   I've tried a GG game before and was too much a pain. It had the bug where I had to d/l and install a completely different second game in order to get the game I wanted to play to work.

    Was a headache so now I avoid it. I'll take a look at Aion post launch when they offer a free trial maybe.

     

  • OlujcheOlujche PancevoPosts: 1Member

     I have same problems whit GameGuard, it will destroy Aion (at least 10% of people wont play it)

    Someone started online petition to remove GameGuard from Aion (never will hapen, but can try)

    www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi

     

    I hope this will be fixed soon, me and my frends cant play OB, and will go back to wow :S

  • LordDevilLordDevil ZirlPosts: 253Member

    My friends and me never had problems with Gamguard... its running totally fine. The few incompatibilities it has just need to be ironed out.

    I would rather have gameguard isntead of No protection in Aion... oh and bots have nothing to do with gameguard, gg is for hack/cheat protection not for client changes like bots...

    Currently playing: Archeage
    Waiting for: Black Desert

  • I didn't play Aion in CB because of gameguard, because it didn't let me go to the login page. Now it is working fine for me, but gameguard does shut down the game from time to time.

    I hope gameguard resolve it, or they change anti-hack or remove it. 

  • RaztorRaztor rfsfPosts: 670Member

     I've been saying this for a while so I'll just repeat it here. 

    Gameguard has 0 benefits for the western market. It doesn't make Aion safer or prevent cheats/hacks/bots which is what's it's supposed to do. Releasing Aion without gameguard would provide the same security as releasing it with it.

    The reason for this is very simple. It is VERY easy to turn it off and disabling it, which is what those that run hacks and cheats are already doing in open beta. I have never seen a security program in a game that is so easy to bypass. Believe me, the people that will hack and cheat are not having any problems with gameguard simply because they can bypass it  and run client side hacks without any issue as Aion relies 100% on gameguard for security.

    Only legitimate users are having issues with gameguard because they are abiding by the EULA agreement. It basically punishes the good users because they keep it on, while the cheaters, hackers and botters are just laughing their asses off as they have 0 problems running Aion. I don't think I'm allowed to link articles and guides promoting the breaking of the EULA of Aion, but spend 5 seconds on google and you'll find them easily enough.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Raztor


    The reason for this is very simple. It is VERY easy to turn it off and disabling it, which is what those that run hacks and cheats are already doing in open beta. I have never seen a security program in a game that is so easy to bypass. Believe me, the people that will hack and cheat are not having any problems with gameguard simply because they can bypass it  and run client side hacks without any issue as Aion relies 100% on gameguard for security.
    Only legitimate users are having issues with gameguard because they are abiding by the EULA agreement. It basically punishes the good users because they keep it on, while the cheaters, hackers and botters are just laughing their asses off as they have 0 problems running Aion. I don't think I'm allowed to link articles and guides promoting the breaking of the EULA of Aion, but spend 5 seconds on google and you'll find them easily enough.



     

    You know...I actually sympathized with some of your other posts on this issue because even though I don't have issues I'm not that foolish that I don't realize others do.  However, you're full of shit if you think everyone that is able to run aion is a hacker or doesn't have gg on.

    Not sure why you went down that road.  You have about as much legitimacy with me now as those that say gg is fine and people that say it causes issues are lying or blaming gg for their hardware concerns.

    Truly pathetic.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • RaztorRaztor rfsfPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Originally posted by Raztor


    The reason for this is very simple. It is VERY easy to turn it off and disabling it, which is what those that run hacks and cheats are already doing in open beta. I have never seen a security program in a game that is so easy to bypass. Believe me, the people that will hack and cheat are not having any problems with gameguard simply because they can bypass it  and run client side hacks without any issue as Aion relies 100% on gameguard for security.
    Only legitimate users are having issues with gameguard because they are abiding by the EULA agreement. It basically punishes the good users because they keep it on, while the cheaters, hackers and botters are just laughing their asses off as they have 0 problems running Aion. I don't think I'm allowed to link articles and guides promoting the breaking of the EULA of Aion, but spend 5 seconds on google and you'll find them easily enough.



     

    You know...I actually sympathized with some of your other posts on this issue because even though I don't have issues I'm not that foolish that I don't realize others do.  However, you're full of shit if you think everyone that is able to run aion is a hacker or doesn't have gg on.

    Not sure why you went down that road.  You have about as much legitimacy with me now as those that say gg is fine and people that say it causes issues are lying or blaming gg for their hardware concerns.

    Truly pathetic.

    I suggest you read my post before going on a random rant. I never said or even suggested that people who run Aion fine are doing so by turning Gameguard off. I said cheaters, hackers and botters are running Aion fine because they are running with it off. Obviously a large number of legitimate players are able to run Aion fine using Gameguard. Obviously you must have missunderstood my post, so your apology is accepted.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Raztor

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Originally posted by Raztor


    The reason for this is very simple. It is VERY easy to turn it off and disabling it, which is what those that run hacks and cheats are already doing in open beta. I have never seen a security program in a game that is so easy to bypass. Believe me, the people that will hack and cheat are not having any problems with gameguard simply because they can bypass it  and run client side hacks without any issue as Aion relies 100% on gameguard for security.
    Only legitimate users are having issues with gameguard because they are abiding by the EULA agreement. It basically punishes the good users because they keep it on, while the cheaters, hackers and botters are just laughing their asses off as they have 0 problems running Aion. I don't think I'm allowed to link articles and guides promoting the breaking of the EULA of Aion, but spend 5 seconds on google and you'll find them easily enough.



     

    You know...I actually sympathized with some of your other posts on this issue because even though I don't have issues I'm not that foolish that I don't realize others do.  However, you're full of shit if you think everyone that is able to run aion is a hacker or doesn't have gg on.

    Not sure why you went down that road.  You have about as much legitimacy with me now as those that say gg is fine and people that say it causes issues are lying or blaming gg for their hardware concerns.

    Truly pathetic.

    I suggest you read my post before going on a random rant. I never said or even suggested that people who run Aion fine are doing so by turning Gameguard off. I said cheaters, hackers and botters are running Aion fine because they are running with it off. Obviously a large number of legitimate players are able to run Aion fine using Gameguard. Obviously you must have missunderstood my post, so your apology is accepted.



     

    I read your post just fine.  Reread whay you wrote.  I'm not going to apologize if you meant something different than what you actually wrote.  Learn to write better because when you say "Only legitimate users are having issues with gameguard" there's no real misinterpretaion there.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • RaztorRaztor rfsfPosts: 670Member

     

    Legitimate users are the only ones having problems with gameguard. You don't see cheaters, hackers and botters on these forums complaining that it is too hard to hack Aion do you. Obviously a very large percentage of players don't have issues and can run Aion fine, but quite a large number cannot or have to compromise their system to be able to.

     

    Edit: Also, please spell check your posts when telling others how to write.

     

  • dreldrel san francisco, CAPosts: 918Member

    When GameGuard goes down, I'm disconnected from the game. This was not a problem in CB.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Raztor


     
    Legitimate users are the only ones having problems with gameguard. You don't see cheaters, hackers and botters on these forums complaining that it is too hard to hack Aion do you. Obviously a very large percentage of players don't have issues and can run Aion fine, but quite a large number cannot or have to compromise their system to be able to.
     
    Edit: Also, please spell check your posts when telling others how to write.
     



     

    Fair enough, guess we both learned something.  I should proofread for typos, and you should proofread what you write is actually what you mean.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zorndorf

    Originally posted by Xasapis


    Currently I'm having issues with GG having false alarms and shutting down the game.
    Having said that, I don't see how GameGuard, or Steam's VAC, or Blizzard's Warden compromise the security of my system or its stability. I believe we're a bit too paranoid over the issue. 



     

    Hers is what wikipedia has to say about GG:

    Aion uses the software nProtect GameGuard from INCA Internet to protect against hacks, cheats and bots, which is criticized for integrating itself deep in the player's system with its own device driver that is very difficult to remove. This driver seems to employ rootkit-like techniques to hide the game's process and to watch the computer's memory for suspicious software.[18] Furthermore there is an unpatched security vulnerability in the driver which can be used for a local privilege escalation.

    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion:_The_Tower_of_Eternity

    Starting from this you can find thousands of references on the web why GameGuard is to be avoided.

    Lesson learned: ---> You could question the capabillity of a sofware house that wants to create a so called high end polished MMORPG and not even being able to write its own protection schemes with the help of Microsoft.

    Like the big boys do it.

    Oh right, it is ... Korean.

     

    While you're at it, check on wikipedie on Warden. Same thing as GG, different skin.

  • KyoukaiKyoukai SkövdePosts: 8Member

     I was really looking forward to aion untill i found out it had Game Guard... using Comodo and found this on the comodo forum while searching for a fix for spellborn :


     

    GameGuard tries to disable CFP's Defense+ and CFP tries to counterattack. During this fight, if you have another security software installed(For example AVAST!), unexpected BSODs happen. We will be fixing these BSODs with the next update(in a couple of days).

    However to be able to play the games, you must permanently disable Defense+ otherwise it wont let any rootkit to disable its protection(i.e. it will activate its self defense).

    To deactivate the D+ permanently

    1 - Goto "Defense+->Advanced->Defense+ Settings"

    2 - Select "Deactivate the D+ permanently" checkbox

    3 - Press Apply and restart your PC

    The games must work fine if you follow 3 steps.

    However as a side note: The behavior of this game protection software is typical of a rootkit and can never be accepted as a legitimate behavior. There is no such thing as "white rootkit" in terms of CFP. CFP is an anti rootkit tool. Whether it is white, blasck, red, yellow. Unless the rootkit does not attack CFP, it wont attack the rootkit if it is allowed by the user. But this one is unfortunately attacking D+ core.

    forums.comodo.com/bug_reports/latest_update_ruined_functionality_of_some_mmorpg_games-t22022.0.html;msg155048#msg155048


     found that I had to uninstall the whole Comodo app to play it because of a game guard 0 error  

  • spazoidspazoid anchorage, AKPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Originally posted by Zorndorf

    Originally posted by Xasapis


    Currently I'm having issues with GG having false alarms and shutting down the game.
    Having said that, I don't see how GameGuard, or Steam's VAC, or Blizzard's Warden compromise the security of my system or its stability. I believe we're a bit too paranoid over the issue. 



     

    Hers is what wikipedia has to say about GG:

    Aion uses the software nProtect GameGuard from INCA Internet to protect against hacks, cheats and bots, which is criticized for integrating itself deep in the player's system with its own device driver that is very difficult to remove. This driver seems to employ rootkit-like techniques to hide the game's process and to watch the computer's memory for suspicious software.[18] Furthermore there is an unpatched security vulnerability in the driver which can be used for a local privilege escalation.

    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion:_The_Tower_of_Eternity

    Starting from this you can find thousands of references on the web why GameGuard is to be avoided.

    Lesson learned: ---> You could question the capabillity of a sofware house that wants to create a so called high end polished MMORPG and not even being able to write its own protection schemes with the help of Microsoft.

    Like the big boys do it.

    Oh right, it is ... Korean.

     

    While you're at it, check on wikipedie on Warden. Same thing as GG, different skin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_%28software%29

    I will take a memory scanner(Warden) over a rootkit(GG) any day.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member

    Well considering I can't even play the game because of it, I would say it's definitely going to hurt it since I'm not the only one.  Seems anyone with Kasperksy Internet security 2009 or 2010 has to completely uninstall it to connect to the game.  Just turning off protection does not work, and I'm not willing to uninstall that just to play this game.

  • ozerinxozerinx Irvine, CAPosts: 199Member

    just kind of curious... did no one read forums for asian releases... GG has been in since asian releases lol.  Personally, i hate it too and was never hyped for  Aion but, GG just kills a game and is completely useless (bot wise). GG prevents "hacks" and such.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xasapis


    Currently I'm having issues with GG having false alarms and shutting down the game.
    Having said that, I don't see how GameGuard, or Steam's VAC, or Blizzard's Warden compromise the security of my system or its stability. I believe we're a bit too paranoid over the issue. 

     

    You have to "READ" the posts.They are not saying the program is causing security risks,they are saying they have to turn off all security to be able to run GG,so in essence it is creating the risk sort of,unless you choose not to play.

    The FACT is this....Nguard does NOT work,so why create strife for your users?

    I have to be fair of course ,and look at both sides.Number 1 to the person on running in XP mode,i have never in the thousands of times tried ever seen XP mode do squat,it is a bs addition to Vista.

    Number 2 ...under 64 bit systems,you sometimes on cheap setups like Aions,need to set Administration rights,for ALL folders.You don't have to go into each folder,just rclick the MAIN folder and it will gives rights to everything inside.The odd time you may need to go in and rclick ADMIN rights to the actual .exe32 file that starts the game.

    Here is the final part....tuning off your security "while in the game" should be of no risk at all....."normally".There is the small chance you have some lingering virus that your anti virus or DEFENDER does not notice ,but  i think the risk is VERY LOW.Whayt i am saying is that you should have little to no fear at all running the game ,with anti virus off.

    There is of course a few things to realize when you do this.DO not have any other programs running in the background,they could somehow link to other sites and grab that virus,so  i guess there is still a slight risk.The whole thing does cause concern and needless HASSLE,but  i would say do not worry while in game,just make sure to put your security back up when out of game.

    Here is the best advice,stay off the pron sites lol and stay off the cheat sites.IMO those are the two main reasons you would pick up viruses.


    Samoan Diamond

  • haratuharatu Tom Price, AKPosts: 409Member

    Release date for Aion: End of September

    Release date for Windows 7: end of October

    Gameguard does not currently work with Windows 7 except with a hack... is this an obvious problem or is it just my imagination? 

  • JaknifeJaknife Bexhill-On-SeaPosts: 51Member

    Gameguard works perfectly with Windows 7.

    No hack, full retail version of Windows 7.

     www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3078606#3078606

    Admittedly this above thread was about Aion in general, but seeing as you need GG to run it, it is relevant.

     

  • haratuharatu Tom Price, AKPosts: 409Member
    Originally posted by Jaknife


    Gameguard works perfectly with Windows 7.
    No hack, full retail version of Windows 7.
     

    That is odd... my laptop runs Windows 7 RC and Gameguard does not work on it... i tried it only yesterday.

    Considering there are numerous posts on the internet about fixes for windows 7 and Aion then I am also suprised at your statement.

     

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    I wouldn't deactivate my security suit for no game. If the game doesn't work, I just wouldn't play it. Luckily for me it does, not sure what happened but the problems were gone after a couple days.

  • tryklontryklon PortoPosts: 1,370Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by haratu


    Release date for Aion: End of September
    Release date for Windows 7: end of October
    Gameguard does not currently work with Windows 7 except with a hack... is this an obvious problem or is it just my imagination? 

     

    A hack? Im using windows 7 for 3 months now, the RTM version, and never had problems with a single game, Aion being one of them, not even with gameguard thats working fine.

    image

  • LeodiousLeodious Abingdon, VAPosts: 773Member

    GameGuard only hurts people. It's like cocaine. Stay away from it.

    "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

    — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

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