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Star Wars: The Old Republic: A Hint at Player Housing?

2

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  • logoherelogohere Audubon, NJPosts: 77Member


    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Any shallow theme park housing system will end up being a wasted effort unless they are going to really invest some time into making our homes "sandbox" like. 
     


    That basically ends any argument regarding this issue. And I have spent hours just going door to door checking out players who left their houses/shops open for display. Just the fact that I could take an armor set and display it like a statue in my house was cool. It comes down to spending time preparing something or just throwing things together last minute and calling it a "feature". Either put housing in that is unique or serves a purpose or dont put it in at all.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    This is a long post.  All you tl;dr morons can move along to the next post. (or learn to read faster)


    Any shallow theme park housing system will end up being a wasted effort.


    Excellent read and post MT.

     

    Thank you, sir.  You know, just re-reading my own post, I still to this day stand in awe of what you could do in SWG.  Each system in that game was so complex compared to anything we have now that I can't believe it released 6 years ago.  That entire wall of text I posted only scratched the surface of how people used player housing in that game.  You simply cannot accurately describe the freedom and flexibility all those sandbox systems gave us without literally writing a BOOK on the subject. Think about how deep the resource aspect alone of crafting was in that game. It was an entire game play line.

    People wonder why us vets miss SWG so much because they have no clue what you could do in there.   I was never bored and I could go weeks at a time in the game completely avoiding PvE and PvP by playing other aspects of SWG game play.  Try doing that in today's games.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • TormDKTormDK Nykoebing FalsterPosts: 100Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    This is a long post.  All you tl;dr morons can move along to the next post. (or learn to read faster)


    Any shallow theme park housing system will end up being a wasted effort.


    Excellent read and post MT.

     

    Thank you, sir.  You know, just re-reading my own post, I still to this day stand in awe of what you could do in SWG.  Each system in that game was so complex compared to anything we have now that I can't believe it released 6 years ago.  That entire wall of text I posted only scratched the surface of how people used player housing in that game.  You simply cannot accurately describe the freedom and flexibility all those sandbox systems gave us without literally writing a BOOK on the subject. Think about how deep the resource aspect alone of crafting was in that game. It was an entire game play line.

    People wonder why us vets miss SWG so much because they have no clue what you could do in there.   I was never bored and I could go weeks at a time in the game completely avoiding PvE and PeP by playing other aspects of SWG game play.  Try doing that in today's games.

     

    I agree completely. It's a shame really, the non-combat features of SWG was what made it so great and I've always wondered why no other developer wanted to steal the good bits from SWG and transfer it to their own game. Sandbox ftw.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Anubisan


    I can tell you right now that the SWG-style player housing will not happen in this game...
    If that is what you are hoping for, don't bother.

     

    I have zero hope for a SWG-style player housing system in this game, and that's the whole point of my post.  Anything less than what I described is just another "bullet point" feature that sounds good in marketing materials and on the game's box, but at the end of the day, it will barely be used. Lotro is a perfect example.  Ask the people in that game what they think of the instanced housing system.  Most of them will tell you they don't even use it because there is no point.  It's not that player housing as a concept is pointless, but that the design is simply boring.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • timmay805timmay805 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 5Member

    Excellent post Mindtrigger.

     

    I agree with both sides of the argument. All of the voice acting and content that Bioware is working on will make the game a joy to play versus the typical "go kill 10 boar" grind.  On the other hand player housing and detailed crafting is a very cool feature in an MMO. Maybe guys can agree that this game looks to already be very promising.

     

  • TillerTiller Portland, ORPosts: 4,921Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Originally posted by Anubisan


    I can tell you right now that the SWG-style player housing will not happen in this game...
    If that is what you are hoping for, don't bother.

     

    I have zero hope for a SWG-style player housing system in this game, and that's the whole point of my post.  Anything less than what I described is just another "bullet point" feature that sounds good in marketing materials and on the game's box, but at the end of the day, it will barely be used. Lotro is a perfect example.  Ask the people in that game what they think of the instanced housing system.  Most of them will tell you they don't even use it because there is no point.  It's not that player housing as a concept is pointless, but that the design is simply boring.

     

    I agree instanced housing sucks in a lot of ways. I used to like finding random houses in SWG and going in to check out how they decorated them. I actually made my first friend in SWG when I was a week old noob running across Tat and I ran into her shop/house to get away from some moisture thieves xD.

    In EQ2 it was a lot harder to show off your house, or find houses to check out, they did do some really cool stuff carpentry wise though. I can deal with instanced houses and apartments, but it's not preferable. I can see both sides of the argument though, the lag caused by crap loads of houses in the game world, the empty player cities, the empty pointless NPC cities, urban sprawl as some call it. There must be a compromise, maybe allowing only certain planets to built on and open with it's own benefits, as well as player apartments in npc cities with their own set of benefits.

    I guess all we can do is wait and see if and how it's implemented in SWTOR. If they are gonna do it I imagine it’s going to serve a purpose and not be a complete suck fest for everyone. I really hope they do and I look forward to seeing player decorated houses as player screen shot of the week.

     

    image
    SWG pre-cu vet, elder Jedi, elder BH -Bloodfin

  • eHeroeHero Indy, INPosts: 41Member Uncommon

    EQ2 has instanced housing.  You can put crafting stations in there, open it up to guests, have your storefront in them, craft all sorts of furniture for it and put it wherever you want.  You can even make a rug, elevate it into the air, and create a virtual second story (if your house doesn't have one). 

    I like the ability to have an apartment in the city, or a house in a high class area of said city.  I actually managed to get a house inside the magic guild.  And all you had to do to visit other homes was click on a door and choose what home you wanted to look at.  I used to do it all the time with the huge guild halls.

    I guess I don't understand why people are so against instanced housing.  What am I missing?

  • ZapphodZapphod New PlymouthPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by timmay805


    Excellent post Mindtrigger.
     
    I agree with both sides of the argument. All of the voice acting and content that Bioware is working on will make the game a joy to play versus the typical "go kill 10 boar" grind.  On the other hand player housing and detailed crafting is a very cool feature in an MMO. Maybe guys can agree that this game looks to already be very promising.
     

     

    So you think being told to "go kill 10 boars" is significantly different from reading "go kill 10 boars"?

    Hate to say it but all the flash voice animations in the world won't make the content any less repetitive or linear.

     

  • timmay805timmay805 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 5Member

    The other thing that hasn't been touched on was the amazing SWG player economy. Although at times it was frustrating to wait on Tattione for players to level to Master Weaponsmith or Armorsmith (I was stuck on Tatt for like a month lol) it made for a great community. I still remember our first Master Weaponsmith his name was Origins and he used to have 20+ people outside his house waiting for him to fill his vendors up. It also made most players act well-mannered and overall just nice to one another, because you never knew if you were gonna need him or one of his friends to make you something.

    The crafting was amazing. I mean the fact that there was 60+ types of resources with something like 8-10 different stats on each of them rotating on a monthly basis on every planet made gathering almost like playing the lotto lol but in a fun way. Crafting stations even had stats for gods sake. I bought a second account just to craft lol. 

    The houses were cool I remember going on "Vendor Hunts" looking for bargain deals on specific resources or skill tapes. Not to mention all the cool and sentimental weapons we would hang on our walls. At the same time I can understand the frustration for people with "cluttered" zones. I remember outside of Coronet just past the river was miserable to try and ride thru especially when 90% of the houses were from players who had quit the game after the gay combat revamp (Like me).

    All in all I think Bioware will do a phenomonal job and probably "borrow" a few ideas from WOW, LOTR, Warhammer, Everquest, etc. I guess my main concern is Bioware making the non lightsaber weilding classes attractive so there isn't 99% jedi's running around.

     

  • timmay805timmay805 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 5Member

    Did u watch the trailer???? What I am trying to say is there is a different between going out and killing 10 boars versus actual characters that have that kind of immersion in the game itself. Yeah the quest might be go slay 10 boars, but the fell of it will be way different. Take for example the quest from the walkthru. That quest will be different depending on whch flashpoint option you choose, whether you are in a group or solo, etc etc

    Why does everyone want to argue. If you don't like a game go hang it in your games forum jeez.

     

  • rjohnson323rjohnson323 Albuquerque, NMPosts: 1Member

    The 'other' SOE game EQ2 has instanced housing but it has many of the features that the older SWG had. I have played both and SWG had more options on housing, but EQ2 does allow extensive decorating, you can set up manaquins to showplace your armor and you can have sales displays in you home so people can buy stuff directly, saving the fee from the broker. You can have crafting stations in your house, and in the guild they even have a bulk material storage container where you can dump all your resources and when using the crafting stations in your guild it automatically draws from the storage area.

    Decoration is not as good as SWG as not everything in the world can be dropped into a hous, only specific housing items, but they have a good selection. Many of my friends have spent hundreds of hourse decorating their homes, and there is a web site that has a Home Show on it when people post pictures of their homes. Even I, who am not overly excited by housing, have decorated 2 or three homes rather extensively with over 500 items in each of them, one is like a forest glade, filled with trees and ponds and perfect for the fae, another is a buildin filled with clockworks and gears (which move btw) smokestacks and crafting tables, perfect for a gnome. Ad oddly enough kitchens seem to be a BIG deal in EQ2. Not sure why but people spend hours getting their kitchens set up, some are amazingly crative.

    Which shows that instanced housing CAN be very nicely done if the game designers want to do it. I am relatively sure some of the old SWG housing designers must have had input in the EQ2 housing.

    I, too liked the housing out 'in the world" in SWG, but it can be done both correctly and badly, I think back to UO where the first server I was on had urban sprawl so bad there was no place NOT covered in houses. Hehe. I used to hunt monsters and mine and cut trees in alleys between houses.

     

     

     

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anubisan


    I can tell you right now that the SWG-style player housing will not happen in this game...
    If that is what you are hoping for, don't bother.

     

    I have a feeling that TOR will have so many loading screens it'll make AoC seem like a sandbox.

    But then again, most MMOs are like this now aren't they...I think it's time for a sadface. Yep: 

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • silicnsmileysilicnsmiley Baltimore, MDPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by silicnsmiley



    I just prefer less loading screens and more seamless fluidity in the realization of the game world. You are more than welcome to like loading screens. Your perogative.

     

    I snipped the rest of your comments because they're pointless.

    If you want less loading time, then you want houses instanced.  

    If you want to be in your house, looking out a crowded metropolis, then every object in your house and every object in every other house has to be downloaded and dynamically updated for every player in the metropolis. 

    Further, voice dialog in an MMO is ground breaking.  Housing is tired old hat.  If you want to play house and read text, I'm sure there still plenty of little sandboxing MUDs running around.  Ulitma Online is still kicking.

    Full voice is a feature never before seen in an MMO.  And it is the central element to BioWare's first entry into the genre.  If that doesn't float your boat, you're probably not going to like TOR anyway.

    Stop crying in my beer.

  • silicnsmileysilicnsmiley Baltimore, MDPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by timmay805


    Excellent post Mindtrigger.
     
    I agree with both sides of the argument. All of the voice acting and content that Bioware is working on will make the game a joy to play versus the typical "go kill 10 boar" grind.  On the other hand player housing and detailed crafting is a very cool feature in an MMO. Maybe guys can agree that this game looks to already be very promising.
     

     

    It is not about the sides agreeing or disagreeing.  Full voice over and story are the main feature that BioWare have been hyping.  They're practically the only things that we know for certain are a part of  TOR.  Housing is pure speculation by fanboys jumping 100 milles to conclusions based on an off-hand response of "yeah it's in there" to a question that asked about multiple topics.

    Stop crying in my beer.

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member
    Originally posted by timmay805


    Did u watch the trailer???? What I am trying to say is there is a different between going out and killing 10 boars versus actual characters that have that kind of immersion in the game itself. Yeah the quest might be go slay 10 boars, but the fell of it will be way different. Take for example the quest from the walkthru. That quest will be different depending on whch flashpoint option you choose, whether you are in a group or solo, etc etc
    Why does everyone want to argue. If you don't like a game go hang it in your games forum jeez.
     

     

    Have to agree, its not that fact that its go kill 10 something/go kill 10 something. at least you know WHY your going and killing 10 things and not just clicking past all the text to get to the objective.

  • VanpryVanpry York, PAPosts: 152Member

    I hope this is true.  I was concerned crafting wouldn't even make it in but now possible player housing.  SWEET!

  • YunbeiYunbei HamburgPosts: 898Member

    Whee, cool! Yeah open housing would be best, but even LOTRO like housing would be better than no housing.

    Man, I want this game NOW! XD

    image

  • ZapphodZapphod New PlymouthPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by zaylin

    Originally posted by timmay805


    Did u watch the trailer???? What I am trying to say is there is a different between going out and killing 10 boars versus actual characters that have that kind of immersion in the game itself. Yeah the quest might be go slay 10 boars, but the fell of it will be way different. Take for example the quest from the walkthru. That quest will be different depending on whch flashpoint option you choose, whether you are in a group or solo, etc etc
    Why does everyone want to argue. If you don't like a game go hang it in your games forum jeez.
     

     

    Have to agree, its not that fact that its go kill 10 something/go kill 10 something. at least you know WHY your going and killing 10 things and not just clicking past all the text to get to the objective.

     

    I have never seen a game yet where it hasnt devolved into clicking past the text to get to the objective and as for those that think that it will be about infinite choices and unique character development are going to be horribly disappointed be as with all games once people discover that clicking yes, yes, yes, no, no creates a stronger character than clicking yes, yes, yes, no, yes then character development becomes linear.

    People can argue until hell freezes over but every MMO is the same people gravitate to the strongest options whether it be classes, crafts or factions it is all the same.

     

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    This is a long post.  All you tl;dr morons can move along to the next post. (or learn to read faster)
    While this moron took the time to read your long post (that contains loads of repetition and didnt need to be this long) and I also really like SWG's housing system, I also think that your reasoning doesnt make sense.
    There are several problems usually associated with instanced housing in Theme Park games which make them pretty useless for anything other than storage. I'm going to use SWG as an example for this, but that DOES NOT mean I expect this game to be SWG2.  I'm using it for contrast only.
    1) Instanced housing takes the homes away from the persistent part of the world, and very few people bother going to them as a result.  In SWG the missions and quests took you through all kinds of player created cities, shops and homes which you could explore. Also see number 3 on this list.
    Ive never been taken to a playercity by a mission or quest in SWG. Even terminal missions locations were always outside player cities. The only reason I went to playercities is because of a playervendor, someone asked me to check their decoration or I had my house there.
    2) Theme park games do not make 3d representation of most games items that you can use to decorate your home with.  In sandbox games like SWG, you could drop almost ANYTHING you had in your inventory, and use it to create a unique space. SWG literally had 3D models for nearly EVERY item in the game, including crafting materials and crafting sub-components. Even food items could be dropped and arranged on a table top to look like a meal was being served. These food items were the same consumables you used for buffs and heals.  You name it, you could drop it and decorate with it.  Hell, there was an entire crafting line that let you make everything from furniture to plants and candles for home decorating.
    Themepark games dont make 3d representation of most game items for decoration purpose? You mean every other game except SWG didnt do that. This has nothing to do with SWG being a sandbox game or not. There is also no reason to assume that SW:TOR wont provide you ways to decorate your house.
    3) Due to the Auction House systems in Theme Parks, people usually cannot set up a shop in their homes so they can sell their crafted and looted items. They cannot set up vendors. This also limits traffic to the housing areas.
    Bazaar in SWG is an auction house system. And in addition it has player owned vendors. It only needs visitors benig able to visit your (instanced) house. What was your point again? 
    4) Decoration is very limited.  You do not have full freedom to place things however you wish and instead have have certain "zones" in your house that are made for specific items (rugs, paint, wall space, small, med, large furniture, etc).  It's very restricting and repetitive and create a large yawn factor very quickly after the initial novelty wears off. SWG allowed you to move the items in any direction, and put them together if you wanted to make a new item.
    Now Im really starting to suspect that your post is based on experience with instanced housing in a specific game. You have no reason to believe that SW:TOR will use the exact same system.
    5) You cannot set up crafting "stations" and craft in your home.  This takes away another huge motivator to spend time and effort setting it up or even visiting it. When I wanted to craft in SWG I would usually head to my pad, and I would have one of the rooms set up as a crafting area complete with crafting stations and bags full of crafting materials I had purchased or harvested.  Combined with a "store front" in one of your other rooms, it really felt like having a business.
    Instanced houses can have crafting stations too. All your points so far have nothing to do with a house being instanced or not.
    Please do not bring up the mess that persistent world housing made in SWG. Those were design flaws that can be addressed in development.  SOE learned a lot about what not to do with persistent player housing, and if they did it again, I'm sure it would be much better.
    Lotro is probably the main AAA theme park with player housing currently.  Really they are a novelty that most people ignore because they are out of the way and very limited as stated above. As much as I am a fan of player housing, I got bored with mine in Lotro before I even started, and ended up using the house just for the storage it allowed. Even that became a pain because I hated heading clear out to the instanced area just to get things. There wasn't much motivation to do anything else with it. After a while I let the rent lapse and just walked away from it.
    Ah, here it is. LOTR. So all instanced housing systems therefore will be like the system used in LOTR. Now I understand your flawed logic. LOTR doesnt have workstations for private homes. LOTR has instanced homes. Therefor instanced homes cant have workstations. LOL 
    I spent countless DAYS setting up my homes and shops in SWG.  Game developers forget that this is a form of game play, and many, many people enjoy it.  In fact, I would say that my homes and the time I put into them were one of the things that kept me coming back to the game for three years, not to mention being able to visit other people's spaces.
    Since you had such freedom to drop items and design the homes, people would open them up to the public as temples, retreats, museums, libraries and any other kind of structure you can imagine. I once decorated and opened up a "Hunting Lodge" out in the game world, and I regularly received IM's and in game emails from people telling me how cool it was, and how they spent their time using it. I'm sure many other SWG players can relate to this. Some of the shops and malls I visited in that game blew me away.  Decorating these spaces was an art form all it's own, and SWG gave you the tools you needed.
    Any shallow theme park housing system will end up being a wasted effort unless they are going to really invest some time into making our homes "sandbox" like.  Hell, this might even be enough for me to try SWTOR.
     I dont expect a system like in SWG. The housing system kept evolving even after the NGE, with new movement and rotation commands. Options to save a blueprint of your house. Options to increase storage space and loads more items to decorate with. Its simply a unique housing system.


    But this doesnt mean that instanced housing in a heavily story based MMO cant have other uses besides storage. Crafting in an instanced house is not that odd. COH does it with bases. Even Runes of Magic lets you place crafting stations in the instanced homes. There are probably even more MMORPGS that let you do that.
     

     

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zapphod

    Originally posted by zaylin

    Originally posted by timmay805


    Did u watch the trailer???? What I am trying to say is there is a different between going out and killing 10 boars versus actual characters that have that kind of immersion in the game itself. Yeah the quest might be go slay 10 boars, but the fell of it will be way different. Take for example the quest from the walkthru. That quest will be different depending on whch flashpoint option you choose, whether you are in a group or solo, etc etc
    Why does everyone want to argue. If you don't like a game go hang it in your games forum jeez.
     

     

    Have to agree, its not that fact that its go kill 10 something/go kill 10 something. at least you know WHY your going and killing 10 things and not just clicking past all the text to get to the objective.

     

    I have never seen a game yet where it hasnt devolved into clicking past the text to get to the objective and as for those that think that it will be about infinite choices and unique character development are going to be horribly disappointed be as with all games once people discover that clicking yes, yes, yes, no, no creates a stronger character than clicking yes, yes, yes, no, yes then character development becomes linear.

    People can argue until hell freezes over but every MMO is the same people gravitate to the strongest options whether it be classes, crafts or factions it is all the same.

     

    Bollocks. Try playing Baldur's Gate by just clicking past the text. And I dont mean while checking a printed walkthrough. And there are also MMORPGs that use way less of the typical kill x fillerquests. Guild Wars is an example. While you can discuss its a MMO or not, its quests could be used in games that you do call MMORPGs.

    It all boils down to the willingness of the developers.

    But yes, there is always the player that tries to avoid any form of challenge, no matter if its twitch, strategic or puzzle based. And immediately turns to guides or other forms of handholding. No developer can fight that. Its not their job to tell players how to play their MMO. At most they can have an idea of how they intended for you to play it.

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    I have a feeling they're going to go with ships as housing.

  • DubelDubel Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 138Member

    I just hope its not instanced housing. 

  • JYCowboyJYCowboy Northlake, TXPosts: 660Member

    Cool,

    I hope Player Housing is a fun and useful feature in TOR.  The Idea  of instanced houseing has been debated for SWG with the many static cities in game.  There are those that argue it would totally kill Player build cities.  The other side is if crafters want the bonues then they will have to join a player city.  I like the idea a casual player could set up shop in an instanced apartment in one of the static cities and then move to a more roomy house if they stick with the game.  Just something to consider.

  • trnqlChaostrnqlChaos Carmel, INPosts: 34Member
    Originally posted by Nikopol


    I have a feeling they're going to go with ships as housing.

    I think that would actually be the perfect approach. For the two primary classes, Jedi and Sith, housing doesn't really fit into the genre. Sith would either live in barracks or temples, not own housing, and Jedi would live pretty much anywhere they travel, but not own housing either. Jedi particularly practice detachment from the entanglements of physical life. We do see in the movies that both utilize ships for travel and sometimes domicile.

     

    At any rate, it would fit for bounty hunters and smugglers as well and be a great way to implement instanced housing. I hated instanced housing in EQ2, but think it would work here as ships.

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member
    Originally posted by silicnsmiley

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by silicnsmiley



    I just prefer less loading screens and more seamless fluidity in the realization of the game world. You are more than welcome to like loading screens. Your perogative.

     

    I snipped the rest of your comments because they're pointless.

    If you want less loading time, then you want houses instanced.  

    If you want to be in your house, looking out a crowded metropolis, then every object in your house and every object in every other house has to be downloaded and dynamically updated for every player in the metropolis. 

    Further, voice dialog in an MMO is ground breaking.  Housing is tired old hat.  If you want to play house and read text, I'm sure there still plenty of little sandboxing MUDs running around.  Ulitma Online is still kicking.

    Full voice is a feature never before seen in an MMO.  And it is the central element to BioWare's first entry into the genre.  If that doesn't float your boat, you're probably not going to like TOR anyway.

    Again, your reading comprehension is whacked. I specifically said I want less loading screens, not less loading "time".

    As for the voice you keep harping on, I've established I couldn't give a damn about it so please stop droning on and on about it to me. As to your revelation that I might not like TOR because of not caring about voice overs (talk about absurd), again, you've proven that you don't want to understand another's words as they write them. I specifically (which lead to this back and forth) stated that if they do housing in a way I like, and crafting in a way I like, then I'll play the game. No where in there was voice.

    You may want to get over yourself in that other people play games for reasons different than your own and your belief that your reasons are somehow superior (which is how you started this back and forth). They aren't. Deal with it.

    And on that note, as this back and forth was began on a totally immature slant of my gaming reasons are better than yours, I leave the "last word" to you. Trying to strongarm an understanding that others beliefs, game reasons are just as valid as yours is not my place. In a worldy light, that was your parent's responsibility.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

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